Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Charlton's new ground at the O2 - Revisited

Hello Peeps.

Yes, i know this is a re-invention, but it seems to have hijacked the Crystal Palace new ground thread , and there obviously appeared to be some mileage left in it (also, that i dont want anything with Palace on our threads).
Its sparked a healthy bollocking, sorry, debate on that thread, so , here we go again, feel free to castigate me in any way you wish - i wont take it personally !

The viewpoint that I have stated is that I am in favour of moving to a new stadium on the Greenwich Peninsula, if it allows us to progress, and would allow us to build on our fanbase , and obviously made financial sense.

What do you think?
«1345

Comments

  • I'm against it for my personal reasons of nostalgia and sentimentality. I can see why it would be good if it made sense financially, but I'd still be against it because I like the idea of hallowed ground, like The Valley.
  • Does your new ground come with free parking?
  • I think the negatives of the likelyhood of a soulless bowl, the lack of free parking, the difficulties of transport for most of our fans who reside in North West Kent, the congestion and added restrictions that the O2 Arena would give and the sentimental aspect of The Valley outweigh the bigger attendance and the better facilities for me. Our ground is just the right size now and though he have lost the original planning permission, there is still areas of the ground, such as the JS, the SE and SW corners that can add to our capacity. Yes, if we were 4th in the premiership and likely to stay there for a number of years, then maybe we can look at moving to a bigger ground, but imo there is no need right now, as we would end up with a ground that resembles MK Dons, or even worse, the Oakland Athletics ;)
  • It costs more to park at the 02 (£28) than it does to go and watch Charlton at The Valley.
    This alone shows that any such move should be dismissed straight away.
  • Does your new ground come with free parking?
    And more importantly, will there be a reasonable number of potholes in the carpark?
  • You wouldn't knock down Stone Henge and build a new and more profitable one 2 miles down the road.
  • t I am in favour of moving to a new stadium on the Greenwich Peninsula, if it allows us to progress, and would allow us to build on our fanbase , and obviously made financial sense.

    I agree but they are some very big ifs.

    The historical and sentimental ties to the Valley are important and should not IMHO be dismissed out of hand. If we don't have our history then what are we?

    A wish to retain the Club's history and tradition does not make someone "an ostrich". Nor does pointing out the many problems that a new stadium would bring make someone a "luddite".

    On the other hand sometimes people and institutions need to move to move forward.

    You said on the other thread that it was " a 40,000 stadium effectively given to us" but none of that is accurate.

    There has been vague talk of an arena that might be built, funding, shape, capacity, roof, usage not specified. Nowhere has it officially been said it will have 40k seats or that anyone is going to be giving it to anyone.

    Charlton, quite rightly, have taken an interest because they need to be aware of what is happening on their doorstep for both the opportunities (a new state of the art stadium perhaps) and the threats (another team moving in) such an arena might offer. That is because the Club have heard of negotiation and want to be round the table from the start to know about and influence what might happen.

    Nothing is agreed and most likely the arena won't be built for many years, if ever.

    Personally I have no problem moving to another stadium but there are certain caveats on that. The Stadium would have -

    - to be owned or under our control,

    - to be significantly better in size and facilities that is potentially available at the Valley

    - have to have the potential to generate significantly more income than the Valley

    - to be designed primarily for football (ie no running track and with proper ends)

    - to have road and public transport links from SE London and Kent as good if not better than for the Valley

    - Substantial and affordable parking available. Most likely this would have to be part of the planning application and may mean the cost of the stadium would be much higher. Just saying "negotiate with the car park owners to get free parking" is nonsense. To negotiate with the owners you have to have something to offer them. They give us £100,000s of free parking a season and we give them what exactly? A free executive box? No, they would want paying.

    - pricing in a significant part of the stadium would have to be in line with current Valley pricing.

  • Henry has this nailed tbh. It might and should only happen if it makes good business sense. Should not be ruled out but should also be no clamour to get it done.
  • Move to the 02 would be good for me transport wise

    On every other level it is wrong.

    We have a hardcore support of no more than 15k, if there was potential to even get to 32,000 let alone 38,000 at The Valley it would be more than enough.

    Plus we only have one song and somehow "o2 the mist rollling in from the thames" just doesnt work for me.

    All that effort to get back and we want to give it up after 20 years.... :(
  • You wouldn't knock down Stone Henge and build a new and more profitable one 2 miles down the road.
    It would get more visitors if they moved it to London. Don't know who thought of building it so far from a train station or a major city.


  • Sponsored links:


  • When has business sense ever had anything to do with football?

    Register interest to keep franchisers away by all means, but The Valley is, and always will be, home.

    Now get into the garden and enjoy the sunshiiiiiine.


  • No for me as I don't think we'll ever be in a position to sell it out.
  • You wouldn't knock down Stone Henge and build a new and more profitable one 2 miles down the road.
    It would get more visitors if they moved it to London. Don't know who thought of building it so far from a train station or a major city.


    Blatter
  • The only way we are ever going to need to leave the Valley is when we cant afford to stay there anymore.
    We are never going to be good enough to consistently hit 32k+

    Only 10 teams in the prem average over 30k per game, and they all either have cheating owners, or some sort of history.
    We have, neither
  • edited May 2012
    Agree with the points already made.

    But just to emphasise ..... if a football stadium is built at the O2, who will be playing there?
    It might not be Charlton, so we don't want a Prem League QPR or Spurs playing on our doorstep.

    The Board need to ensure that Charlton as a business is not compromised.
  • The only way we are ever going to need to leave the Valley is when we cant afford to stay there anymore.
    We are never going to be good enough to consistently hit 32k+

    Only 10 teams in the prem average over 30k per game, and they all either have cheating owners, or some sort of history.
    We have, neither
    Not sure what you mean by "cheating" owners but we're not even sure who ours are. I don't think they are cheats by the way, not in the slightest but if you mean mega-rich who knows how much they have or who we will be sold to.

    As for having no history! Really? If you mean no record of winning trophies then maybe but every club has history. Even Palace have history.

    We don't know what is in the future. 10 years ago who would have predicted that we'd be in league 1.

    20 years ago we still weren't sure if we were getting back to the Valley. And that was to an 8,000 capacity that some thought then would be enough. How many in 1992 would have predicted a 27k Valley full most weeks?

    If you don't dream then you'll never have a dream come true.

  • 1. Why would they build a 40k (baseball ???) stadium in London near the O2? If they did then of course we would look in to it.
    2. Why would West Ham move South of the river to increase their capacity by 5k? I can't think of anything more absurd!
  • edited May 2012
    Leaving the Valley, who ever heard fo such nonsense, have we really such short memories? Not interested in any opportunities that arose elsewhere when I extremely happy with the growth on and off the picth we currently have where we are,

    The old den new den experience or going to that awful Colchester ground should be enough, if I am going to stick my head in the sand at the expence of progress I hope its a good old, reclaimed quarry/sandpit in SE7 where the spirt of 47 and even 92 still exists, I would fight with every thing I had not to loose this wonderful place again....
    Duly filed under Ostrich.
    Says the guy who dodges questions he can't answer. Even the answers you do give are for the most part crazy.

    "We can negotiate"

    Have you seen how congested it gets down at the O2 when an event is on, now you want to add 40k football fans to that.

    Yes, and dealt with very efficiently - dont you agree?
    So, are you against progress because you dont like the congestion? Have you ever been to a football match?

    Are you comparing us with Darlo ?? I sincerely hope not.
    Have you been to the O2? Efficient is certainly not what I'd call it.

    image
  • We dont need 40k seats and doubt we ever will on a consistant basis, so all of this debating IMO is pointless.
  • For those who haven't been to an O2 event - the best seats are the corporate boxes with us normal people above them. You only really see the action on giant screens.

    The proposed arena scheme is from the same people. It is an open venue on the Tunnel Refineries side of the A102. Being American they are looking at a baseball park with live music in mind.

    The area along the riverside to the north of the Valley is the subject of a masterplan. The Wickes site is likely to be replaced by a very large Sainsbury's (as at Crayford). A Construction College has been added too. Good things proposed.

    You have to remember that the Valley is landlocked. Big property development is not possible. This limits the value to re-invest in a new ground.
  • Sponsored links:


  • As someone who actually got back into following Charlton by the move to Selhurst, I have no problem about moving, however Henry has covered pretty well the pre requisites of such an event.
  • this might seem to be a stupid question, so forgive my ignorance. But is there any reason the Valley couldn't be expanded beyond 40k?
  • Leave the Valley ....

    NEVER!!!!!!!!

    I love that place we can upgrade whenever we want and id want us to sell out 40k average before contemplating leaving....

    If some other teamed moved into the area then we can do whatever we need to do to stop it happening ie burn down the rival stadium in the dead of night so no one was injured...

    But overall ... NO!
  • We dont need 40k seats and doubt we ever will on a consistant basis, so all of this debating IMO is pointless.
    Possibly correct but I can assure you that this will have already been discussed by our owners even if the conclusion was to only maintain a watching brief. As for a football fan discussion forum not debating it well that's ridiculous isn't it ?

  • It would be ridiculous to say we should never leave the valley whatever the circumstances but it seems that the question is largely an irrelevance at the moment. We don't need a 40,000 stadium now and we are unlikely to need one in the foreseeable future. Teams that are long established in the Premier league such as Villa and Everton are struggling to get more than 35,000 on a regular basis and they both have a far bigger fanbase than we have. If we were to get back to the Premiership there is room to expand the Valley to well over 30,000. The economic down turn and the cyclical nature of football attendances mean it is quite likely that football crowds will reduce for most clubs. When we were in the First Division during the Selhurst era of 1986/87 the crowds at away games were often tiny and none of them were over 40,000. Mancheter United 37,544, Arsenal 26,111, Spurs, 26,926, and Chelsea a mighty 15,692. All these clubs are bigger than us and all had grounds that at the time held more than 40,000. Big modern stadia are great when full but pathetic and souless when they are not, like Coventry.
  • The Valley looked so cool for the last game .... Couldn't believe it...
  • It would be ridiculous to say we should never leave the valley whatever the circumstances but it seems that the question is largely an irrelevance at the moment. We don't need a 40,000 stadium now and we are unlikely to need one in the foreseeable future. Teams that are long established in the Premier league such as Villa and Everton are struggling to get more than 35,000 on a regular basis and they both have a far bigger fanbase than we have. If we were to get back to the Premiership there is room to expand the Valley to well over 30,000. The economic down turn and the cyclical nature of football attendances mean it is quite likely that football crowds will reduce for most clubs. When we were in the First Division during the Selhurst era of 1986/87 the crowds at away games were often tiny and none of them were over 40,000. Mancheter United 37,544, Arsenal 26,111, Spurs, 26,926, and Chelsea a mighty 15,692. All these clubs are bigger than us and all had grounds that at the time held more than 40,000. Big modern stadia are great when full but pathetic and souless when they are not, like Coventry.
    Agree, MK dons was awful. I doubt in the next few seasons we will be in a position to sell out Every game without some sort of promotion. If we moved to a new ground with bigger capacity or made the Valley bigger and started slipping down the leagues again the extra cost of those seats would cost a fortune as attendances would drop to what we had last season.
  • Would not like to leave The Valley ever. Its harder for me to get to and it would cost me more when I go. Plus there is no history at this new stadium.

    We don't even need to move away anyway The Valley is the perfect size for us at the moment.
  • edited May 2012
    If we need 40K seats at some time in the future then we should resubmit planning permission. Where would we be now if we had done this the season before we got relegated. We came, if I understand right, to 6 months away from 5 million quidsworth of administration 18 months or so ago. One of the big differences, as I understand it is that we were not saddled with an unaffordable white elephant of a stadium. I know you said "given that it makes financial sense", but what makes financial sense one year can seem insanity after a year or two of bad results and bad luck.

    We have a great stadium, slap bang in the middle of the community which the team is named after. That is becoming increasingly rare, and we must treasure it. I have to stop now as I am about to choke up.

    My only desire is never to have to go to the Greenwich Peninsula for my Addick fix.
  • The only way we are ever going to need to leave the Valley is when we cant afford to stay there anymore.
    We are never going to be good enough to consistently hit 32k+

    Only 10 teams in the prem average over 30k per game, and they all either have cheating owners, or some sort of history.
    We have, neither
    I know this is quite an old post, but I've been away from my trusty keyboard for a while! Anyway, what constitutes "history" in your view?

    Things like:

    - Participating in what is generally regarded as the best ever match at the old Wembley?

    - The return to the Valley? What other club's fans have created a political party to fight their cause?

    Or does history only mean trophies?
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!