Interesting to see we signed 100 players in our first 5 years as a League club.
But presumably some of those players would already have been at the club in the preceding Southern League season so would already have been registered with the club?
Including Seth Plum.
Good point though, as we weren't starting from scratch but accepted as a new League club - as were many others that year (and the season before), so players were still essentially of similar standard.
Clubs in those days didn't normally have the same turnover in players each season, as has become common practice in recent years.
But of course, it was the time of the maximum wage. There was no Bosman, either.
But after only 5 years to sign our first 100 players, it took a further 12 years to sign our next 100 - and by then we were establishing ourselves as a top flight club.
One theory is that many players returned from WW1 less fit than anticipated due to gas and the time away.
So you see a bigger turnover of players with younger players coming in.
Also some of the Non-League players may not have been up to scratch.
All good points, Henry.
But one thing I was trying to say ......... the new Third Division, over 2 consecutive seasons (in reality around 12 months), was largely made up of most of the then Southern League clubs - therefore many of those clubs' existing players would be retained, at least for their Third Division debut season?
Edit: Overlooked giving cafcfan the credit for the original point.
Interesting to see we signed 100 players in our first 5 years as a League club.
But presumably some of those players would already have been at the club in the preceding Southern League season so would already have been registered with the club?
That's absolutely correct, and I am actually in the process of compiling a list of pre-league players. However, I fear it will never be definitive because the early records are so thin and few between. For that reason I think we need a cut-off point for numbering purposes and the start of league football seems as sensible a place as any.
In yesterdays programme it named John Saunders the 300th Addick It was April 1963, now I was watching the lads back then & can not recall him at all. I remember Ron Saunders but I think he joined a couple of seasons later. Can anyone enlighten me please?
It's not surprising that you can't remember John Saunders. An outside right, he came through the junior ranks to play one first team match, an away defeat to Middlesbrough in April 1963. Whatever the reasons he never played league football again. Not for Charlton or anyone else.
Ron Sanders V310 came a couple of years later making his Charlton Debut in August 1965. Ron, a Centre Forward, was an establish professional in the twilight of his playing days when he came to Charlton having already represented Everton, Gillingham, Portsmouth and Watford before playing for the Addicks. He scored 24 goals in 65 appearances for us before hanging up his boots. In wider football circles he is probably more famous for his 30 year management career, including eight seasons at Aston Villa where he won the League.
In yesterdays programme it named John Saunders the 300th Addick It was April 1963, now I was watching the lads back then & can not recall him at all. I remember Ron Saunders but I think he joined a couple of seasons later. Can anyone enlighten me please?
Mike Bailey got injured and was replaced in the next match by Brian Ord who in turn also got injured and was thus replaced by Saunders for his one match which happened to be number 300.
Although his real name was (is) John Saunders I remember him being referred to as Fred.
Interesting to see we signed 100 players in our first 5 years as a League club.
But presumably some of those players would already have been at the club in the preceding Southern League season so would already have been registered with the club?
That's absolutely correct, and I am actually in the process of compiling a list of pre-league players. However, I fear it will never be definitive because the early records are so thin and few between. For that reason I think we need a cut-off point for numbering purposes and the start of league football seems as sensible a place as any.
Yes, I think you're right about a cut-off point. I was merely pointing out that the turnover rate would have been distorted.
With the list about to grow bigger, I have started work on a section of my programme website detailing programmes from players debuts. It is very much work in progress but here is how it is going so far.
Comments
Including Seth Plum.
Good point though, as we weren't starting from scratch but accepted as a new League club - as were many others that year (and the season before), so players were still essentially of similar standard.
Clubs in those days didn't normally have the same turnover in players each season, as has become common practice in recent years.
But of course, it was the time of the maximum wage. There was no Bosman, either.
But after only 5 years to sign our first 100 players, it took a further 12 years to sign our next 100 - and by then we were establishing ourselves as a top flight club.
So you see a bigger turnover of players with younger players coming in.
Also some of the Non-League players may not have been up to scratch.
But one thing I was trying to say ......... the new Third Division, over 2 consecutive seasons (in reality around 12 months), was largely made up of most of the then Southern League clubs - therefore many of those clubs' existing players would be retained, at least for their Third Division debut season?
Edit: Overlooked giving cafcfan the credit for the original point.
He was a forward but only 5' 4" so would fail the CL height test.
Ron Saunders played 64 games between 65 to 67 and scored 28 goals.
He went on to be a very successful manager most famously with Villa where he won the league and built the team that won the European Cup.
Ron Sanders V310 came a couple of years later making his Charlton Debut in August 1965. Ron, a Centre Forward, was an establish professional in the twilight of his playing days when he came to Charlton having already represented Everton, Gillingham, Portsmouth and Watford before playing for the Addicks. He scored 24 goals in 65 appearances for us before hanging up his boots. In wider football circles he is probably more famous for his 30 year management career, including eight seasons at Aston Villa where he won the League.
Although his real name was (is) John Saunders I remember him being referred to as Fred.
2 came from the youth team (JG & KAG)
2 were loan from the network (YB & FB)
2 were on loan from the Prem (FC & MV)
4 signed on a short term contracts (OO, RJ, CE & AD)
11 signed on permanent contracts of at least one year (GT, SH, ABA, JBG, FM, IV, CLP, NE) of whom 4 were from the network (GT, MD, TBH, TWWW)
Alou Diarra was the last débutante and is V797
The V is for Valiant and is a nod to Colin Cameron and his book The Valiant 500 from which Stig and I's work is based.
In the 11 perms but I'd transposed it to MD. Now changed, thanks
Stig gets ready to award the V numbers to the new players
It seems scoring off the bench is a kiss of death/early release.
of those how many are still with us?
2 came from the youth team (
JG& KAG)2 were loan from the network (
YB&FB)2 were on loan from the Prem (
FC&MV)4 signed on a short term contracts (
OO, RJ, CE& AD)11 signed on permanent contracts of at least one year (
GT, SH, ABA, JBG, FM, IV,CLP,NE) of whom 4 were from the network (GT, MD, TBH,TWWW)Just 8
KAG
Hendo
Bikey
JBG
Moussa
Igor
Watt
Diarra
https://www.flickr.com/photos/addicks7-6/collections/72157654439098353/
Stig's list of debuts has been invaluable for this project.
If you want to see more Charlton programmes visit
http://www.flickr.com/photos/addicks7-6/sets/
https://staddickstics.wordpress.com/2015/08/08/possible-charlton-debuts-today/
Hope you have your algorithms and charts ready to allocate the new V numbers to the right players.
Oh yes, I have all the technology I need finely honed.
802 and 803 we know.
V798 Patrick BAUER
V799 Ahmed KASHI
V800 El-Hadji BA
V801 Simon MAKIENOK
V802 Zakarya BERGDICH
V803 Cristian CEBALLOS PRIETO
That is final.
That is final.