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FA's Greg Dyke announces plans to restrict non-EU players

FA chairman Greg Dyke has warned Premier League football is in danger of "having nothing to do with English people" as new proposals to limit the number of non-EU players are outlined by English football's governing body.
The FA has also revealed plans to toughen the rules on home-grown talent in the latest proposals from its commission, which was set up in 2013 to improve the England team.
The commission has also proposed changes to work permit rules having highlighted flaws in the system.
The stricter work-permit rules, approved by the Home Office on Friday, will come into force from 1 May.
Under the proposals outlined by the FA on Monday:
A player will have to have been registered with his club from the age of 15 - down from 18 - to qualify as 'home-grown'.
The minimum number of home-grown players in a club's first-team squad of 25 will increase from eight to 12, phased over four years from 2016.
At least two home-grown players must also be 'club-trained' players - defined as any player, irrespective of nationality, that has been registered for three years at their club from the age of 15.
Only the best non-EU foreign players will be granted permission to play in England.

Speaking to the BBC's sports editor Dan Roan, Dyke explained the rationale behind the FA's new proposals by highlighting the impact of Harry Kane.
The Tottenham striker, 21, only made his first Premier League start for Spurs in April 2014, and is this season's top scorer with 19 goals.
Harry Kane has earned a first England call-up on the back of a superb season for Tottenham
"We have to do this by negotiation with the different leagues and with the clubs - we have to convince them that this makes sense for English football," said Dyke.
"And we are helped by Harry Kane in truth - we are helped by seeing a young kid come into the Spurs team and become the top scorer in English football.
"How many other Harry Kanes are around in the youth teams of Premier League clubs? It was almost by chance that Tim Sherwood became manager at Tottenham for a time and put him in the side - otherwise he would still be out on loan at Millwall or somewhere else."
'An awful lot of bog-standard foreign players'

"If you apply the system we are just introducing over the last five years, a third of non-EU overseas players that have come here wouldn't get in," Dyke added.
"We don't want to stop the outstanding talent coming here, but there are an awful of bog-standard players as well.
"If we could get all this through, over the next three, four or five years, you could see the numbers of home-grown players going up from a percentage in the high 20s to 40%. It matters that this happens across the whole of English football, but it particularly matters to the top end of the Premier League.
Manchester City and Barcelona players
Just three English players were in the Manchester City line-up across the two legs of their recent Champions League loss to Barcelona
"The future England team by and large play for the top six sides. If you look in Germany, or Spain, it's always the same. And amongst the top six sides the decline in English players is quite marked.
"If you look at who is playing in the Champions League, the English numbers compared to the Germans, the Spanish or the Brazilians, are pathetic."
BBC Sport's Ben Smith
"Greg Dyke made this issue a priority from the moment he became FA chairman in 2013. His fear is that England will drift into international football obscurity if nothing is done and he wants to be the man to do it.
"Dyke has always been a populist and these proposals will chime with many England fans. But the acid test is how they are received by Premier League clubs.
"They will have to vote for the reforms by a two-thirds majority for them to come into effect. Dyke will argue that there are more Harry Kanes and Ryan Masons ready to come through the system if only the Premier League clubs can clear a pathway for them."
Danny Mills on work permits

Former England full-back Danny Mills sits on the FA commission established by Dyke two years ago.
"Something like 95% of work permit appeals go through. On what basis? We want the creme de la creme ," said Mills.
"We want the best players. But we are starting to get foreign players in the Championship and League Two. That reduces the number of English players who can come through the system.
"It matters to the English game. Harry Kane is adored. Fans will always have an affinity to the local lad or English players. It bridges the gap between superstar and fan, between the exceptional and the normal.
"It is very important that those links stay there."
Work permit changes - key points
Read more on the work permit changes on the FA website.
Currently, players must have played at least 75% of their country's internationals over the past two years. That will now change according to ranking. Players must play at least 30% of matches in the last two years if their country is in the top 10, 45% if ranked between 11th and 20th, 60% between 21st and 30th and 75% if between 31st and 50th.
Player currently must have played for a country in the top 70 when rankings are averaged over two years. That will be lowered to the top 50.
All players are currently measured over the last two years. The new regulations will allow leeway for players aged 21 or under to only fulfil the criteria for the previous 12 months.
The FA estimates that 33% of the players who gained entry under the old system would not have been granted a work visa under the new rules. That means that over the last five years there would have been 42 fewer non-European players playing in the Premier and Football Leagues.
English game needs foreign players - Hartson

Former Arsenal striker John Hartson says the FA need to be careful about bringing in new rules as foreign players can help to improve their English counterparts.
"The best players I ever worked with were Dennis Bergkamp and Henrik Larsson," said the ex-Wales international. "I learned so much from them.
Dennis Bergkamp and Marc Overmars
John Hartson played alongside the likes of Dennis Bergkamp and Marc Overmars at Arsenal
"Having 12 English players in a squad may not be a bad rule but you don't want to prevent good foreign players coming over and playing in this country.
"By that, you could miss out on a couple of really good foreign players who could be of benefit to the Premier League."
The former English hopeful's view

Lee Canoville, a former Arsenal defender who left the club in 2001 having made just one senior appearance in four years, welcomed the proposals.
Jump media playerMedia player helpOut of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.
Former Arsenal defender Lee Canoville says English players can be forgotten
"If the FA can limit the number of foreign players in a squad, that will help," he said. "A world-class player is entitled to come and play in the Premier League. But players who are not quite ready? What is the difference between our lads who are not quite ready? A rule needs to come in.
"Something obviously has to be done, because who knows in 10 more years what is going to happen, The Premier League will still be going, I am sure, it will still be exciting and brilliant but everyone wants that buzz back when we can look forward to the World Cup and European Championships.
"It is so important these young lads, like Daniel Sturridge and Harry Kane, get their chance. I am sure there are a lot more players out there who just need that chance."
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Comments

  • Less non EU players will just increase the number of EU players and not necessarily British players.
    It will also increase the value of quality qualifying non EU players. Further seeing money being sent out of the English game to clubs abroad where restrictions are not as draconian.
  • about time too .. enough of foreign managers signing foreign players and the money ends up who knows where .. not to mention the obvious benefit of English/British players getting more opportunities .. next we want the same policy for ALL professions in England and the rest of the UK
  • As a Bees fan and former chairman, Dyke shows an awful lot of contempt for teams outside the Premier League and the work done developing players there. A number of whom, as we know, will be pinched by Premier academies before they are sixteen and then "loaned out to Millwall" as he puts it. Perhaps they should look closer to home and instigate rules that prevent that happening too?

    Good point from Absurdistan.
  • "otherwise he would still be out on loan at Millwall" - love it !

    It would be interesting to know how many players have qualified for work permits under the current rules that wouldn't under the new rules.

    Is TBH our only non-EU player ?
  • edited March 2015
    I wonder whether there will be unintended consequences?

    There often are.

    Take, for example, the proposal that "at least two home-grown players must also be 'club-trained' players - defined as any player, irrespective of nationality, that has been registered for three years at their club from the age of 15".*
    Now, academies produce sometimes a whole raft of quality players and sometimes they go through lean years. But player's agents will know that if their "home-grown" players are pretty good, they will have the club over a barrel, wages-wise. This could (a) increase a club's costs hugely and/or (b) actually make the employment of a high percentage of young "home-grown" players untenable because the couple of elite players they are required to employ will be costing them a fortune.

    Alternatively clubs will sacrifice a couple of places in their squads to cheap, perhaps very cheap but second-rate players to meet the criteria but not actually pay them very much so they can continue to spend on the overseas talent.

    I think I agree about non-EU restrictions generally but other countries' FAs will be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of picking up non-EU players who have vast potential but don't meet the English FA's work permit requirements. They will get the pick of the young foreign cream of the crop while English clubs won't even have access to them.
    Then, once they've done their three years or whatever in Portugal and got their EU passport, they'll be available to sell on to English clubs at hugely inflated prices.

    Lots to think about - interesting times.

    ETA * so take the likes of Wayne Rooney who made his professional debut at 16 when he would only have done one year as a "home-grown" player from the age of 15. (Or our own Joe Gomez.)
  • se9addick said:

    "otherwise he would still be out on loan at Millwall" - love it !

    It would be interesting to know how many players have qualified for work permits under the current rules that wouldn't under the new rules.

    Is TBH our only non-EU player ?

    Bulot and Vetokele of course play for Gabon / Angola but both have European Passports

    Onyewu is the only other as he's from the United States
  • se9addick said:

    "otherwise he would still be out on loan at Millwall" - love it !

    It would be interesting to know how many players have qualified for work permits under the current rules that wouldn't under the new rules.

    Is TBH our only non-EU player ?

    Bulot and Vetokele of course play for Gabon / Angola but both have European Passports

    Onyewu is the only other as he's from the United States
    But then upon further reading; Onyewu also wouldnt fall under this ruling as he has Belgian Citizenship
  • se9addick said:

    "otherwise he would still be out on loan at Millwall" - love it !

    It would be interesting to know how many players have qualified for work permits under the current rules that wouldn't under the new rules.

    Is TBH our only non-EU player ?

    Bulot and Vetokele of course play for Gabon / Angola but both have European Passports

    Onyewu is the only other as he's from the United States
    Is Onyewu considered a "player" ?
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  • se9addick said:

    "otherwise he would still be out on loan at Millwall" - love it !

    It would be interesting to know how many players have qualified for work permits under the current rules that wouldn't under the new rules.

    Is TBH our only non-EU player ?

    Bulot and Vetokele of course play for Gabon / Angola but both have European Passports

    Onyewu is the only other as he's from the United States
    You have to have the passport from the country you play international football for.
  • Presumably our 14-year old superstar Nigerian goalkeeper would be treated as "home-grown"?
  • edited March 2015
    Former England full-back Danny Mills sits on the FA commission established by Dyke two years ago.

    "Something like 95% of work permit appeals go through"

    I feel like that's a statistic you should probably know for sure Danny. Considering you're on the commission and all..
  • se9addick said:

    "otherwise he would still be out on loan at Millwall" - love it !

    It would be interesting to know how many players have qualified for work permits under the current rules that wouldn't under the new rules.

    Is TBH our only non-EU player ?

    Bulot and Vetokele of course play for Gabon / Angola but both have European Passports

    Onyewu is the only other as he's from the United States
    You have to have the passport from the country you play international football for.
    Really ? I would have thought that an EU Citizen would have the right to free movement regardless of profession ?
  • se9addick said:

    "otherwise he would still be out on loan at Millwall" - love it !

    It would be interesting to know how many players have qualified for work permits under the current rules that wouldn't under the new rules.

    Is TBH our only non-EU player ?

    Bulot and Vetokele of course play for Gabon / Angola but both have European Passports

    Onyewu is the only other as he's from the United States
    You have to have the passport from the country you play international football for.
    Jason Bourne has about 5-6 Passports in the Bourne series...

    I know people will lol! at that comment but its the same in the real world, there is no limit on the number of Passports your allowed to have, you just produce that applicable one when your in that country
  • JBG is from Iceland who aren't in the EU.
  • There is an excellent chapter in Soccernomics about how countries who limit foreign players hinders rather than helps a national team. It's the only thing I've read which is backed up by substantial evidence. If you can get your hands on a copy I thoroughly recommend you read it as I will not do it justice.

    The theory behind it is that if you reduce the pool of players teams can select from you in turn reduce the quality of that league, this subsequently means the English players who are playing in the league are playing a lower standard of football. This won't happen immediately, the EPL still retains a huge amount of prestige in the global game, but slowly it will decrease and the income that comes in from supporters of the league abroad will start to move to those leagues deemed more appealing which only serves to further decrease the quality.

    On a separate point the academy structure in our league develops players who are more suited to a robust and physical game. This means that the players that come through are suited to the style of football played in the EPL and FL, but struggle in the international game which tends to be played at a lower tempo, and where being a strong and physical presence on a football field can be a hindrance in international football. A good example is Gareth Bale, a player tailored made for the Premier League due to his pace, power and agility, but has been struggling in La Liga (that's not to say he's not able to adapt his style of play in the long run). Also take the example of Fabien Delph, who tried to play exactly the same game in and England shirt as he does in a Villa shirt and ended up looking like a bit of a donkey.

    Effectively I believe that we need to readdress how we coach players from a young age so that they not only have the footballing intelligence to adapt their style of play based upon where they are playing, but also to make them a more attractive prospect to clubs overseas. If the English national side has a network of talent playing across Europe, as well as a core group of players competing at the top level of English football we may have a chance of seeing a World Cup in our life time. I fear this is yet another quick fix by the FA which will continue to see us left behind by the rest of the footballing world on an international stage.
  • I'm interested in seeing the definition of "only the best non EU players" will be allowed.
    I suspect what it means is that if Man Utd, Chelsea, et al apply for the players work permit then it will be fine but if it's the hoy palloy then they can do one.

    Really pissed me off when we tried to sign the Japanese Brazilian Alex who had shone in the World Cup but couldn't get a work permit yet the aforementioned clubs never seem to have such a problem.

    Although how Ali Dia ever got a work permit for his sensational Southampton debut is beyond me!
  • iaitch said:

    JBG is from Iceland who aren't in the EU.

    Thing is they're in World Top 70 (35th in the World at the moment) whilst he regularly plays for them

    Someone who would struggle would have been Danny Uchechi from Nigeria
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  • se9addick said:

    "otherwise he would still be out on loan at Millwall" - love it !

    It would be interesting to know how many players have qualified for work permits under the current rules that wouldn't under the new rules.

    Is TBH our only non-EU player ?

    Bulot and Vetokele of course play for Gabon / Angola but both have European Passports

    Onyewu is the only other as he's from the United States
    You have to have the passport from the country you play international football for.
    You can have more than one passport, if you're from/living in certain countries.
  • edited March 2015

    There is an excellent chapter in Soccernomics about how countries who limit foreign players hinders rather than helps a national team. It's the only thing I've read which is backed up by substantial evidence. If you can get your hands on a copy I thoroughly recommend you read it as I will not do it justice.

    The theory behind it is that if you reduce the pool of players teams can select from you in turn reduce the quality of that league, this subsequently means the English players who are playing in the league are playing a lower standard of football. This won't happen immediately, the EPL still retains a huge amount of prestige in the global game, but slowly it will decrease and the income that comes in from supporters of the league abroad will start to move to those leagues deemed more appealing which only serves to further decrease the quality.

    Interesting, because in the Premier League we currently have (more or less) a free for all, and seems to have done our national team very little good. In Germany and Spain (as the two "top dogs at the moment) their leagues have far more home grown players. Chelsea have 5, Man City 4 in their current first team squads, as opposed to Barcelona (10) R. Madrid (9) and Bayern (12) for example. England's best tournament performances in my lifetime were before the top divisions were awash with foreign born talent.

    I think your excellent points about coaching (which I also think everyone except the FA agree and the Premier League agree on) seem to be far more where the "blame" lies than whether or not there are restrictions on imported players, despite what the Soccernomic guys think, JR?
  • edited March 2015

    The theory behind it is that if you reduce the pool of players teams can select from you in turn reduce the quality of that league, this subsequently means the English players who are playing in the league are playing a lower standard of football. This won't happen immediately, the EPL still retains a huge amount of prestige in the global game, but slowly it will decrease and the income that comes in from supporters of the league abroad will start to move to those leagues deemed more appealing which only serves to further decrease the quality.

    I would have thought this was conventional wisdom. However surely there has to be a threshold of when there aren't enough English players getting the exposure they need because the top players in the league are non-English. Someone made the point that barely any of Man City's starting XI is English and Arsenal had a farcical situation years ago when they were regularly fielding teams that only had an English person on the bench at the most.

    Dyke's comments that the England team largely sources its players from the top 6 EPL sides highlights the problem that the top 6 sides are engaged in an arms race to spend as much money on overseas talent as possible, with those players either sidelining or rotating with the English players those squads already have. There are exceptions of course but the argument that playing against the best players from around the world will make the England team better does't hold up to the fact that the best English players are being sidelined by these international superstars.

    Maybe there should be some kind of incentive to clubs to regularly play players who can reasonably be expected to be called up to the England squad.
  • Anyone who agrees with this idea needs to be reminded that you are agreeing with an idea from Greg Dyke.
  • Fiiish said:

    The theory behind it is that if you reduce the pool of players teams can select from you in turn reduce the quality of that league, this subsequently means the English players who are playing in the league are playing a lower standard of football. This won't happen immediately, the EPL still retains a huge amount of prestige in the global game, but slowly it will decrease and the income that comes in from supporters of the league abroad will start to move to those leagues deemed more appealing which only serves to further decrease the quality.

    I would have thought this was conventional wisdom. However surely there has to be a threshold of when there aren't enough English players getting the exposure they need because the top players in the league are non-English. Someone made the point that barely any of Man City's starting XI is English and Arsenal had a farcical situation years ago when they were regularly fielding teams that only had an English person on the bench at the most.

    Dyke's comments that the England team largely sources its players from the top 6 EPL sides highlights the problem that the top 6 sides are engaged in an arms race to spend as much money on overseas talent as possible, with those players either sidelining or rotating with the English players those squads already have. There are exceptions of course but the argument that playing against the best players from around the world will make the England team better does't hold up to the fact that the best English players are being sidelined by these international superstars.

    Maybe there should be some kind of incentive to clubs to regularly play players who can reasonably be expected to be called up to the England squad.
    Of course, and I think we do have an issue that not enough English players are playing in the higher echelons of English football, which of course in the short term is an issue. However by limiting the number of foreign players, whether it be for everyone or just for top clubs, will diminish the quality of the league in the long term. It will be great to see more young English players getting an opportunity at the top of the English game, but what if the top of the English game no longer remains at the forefront of world football?

    I think we have to rethink how we coach young English talent to ensure that it competes with those players coming in from abroad. We already have an issue where the price of English players is over inflated due to the home grown players rule making them unattractive investments, surely adding in further restrictions will add to this?

    I can see how these restrictions will have a positive effect for the national team in the short term, but not enough to win us a World Cup. Why? The current crop on young English talent simply isn't good enough to win us a World Cup in the 12 years.

    Of course this is all hypothetical. The amount of money we have in the English game, and the strength of the Premier League brand as a whole may be strong enough to withstand reducing the pool of quality players clubs can choose from, I certainly hope so.
  • I'm sure our pool of talent starts out as good as any country. What I would like to know is how much is down to the problem Gregg Dyke sets out and how much is down to the way the talent pool before reaching age 18 is nurtured compared to other countries.
  • If more home grown players have to be in squad, I assume this means less eu developed players, so assume it will mean less eu players, i thats right then its an interesting way of getting around the problem, altho there cd then be more serious competition for eu academy level players?
  • Best thing the FA could do is revisit the way TV money is shared between all football clubs.
    It costs a lot for clubs to run academies and sell on fees have collapsed since the Premiership took all bar a few crumbs of the TV money pie.
    No surprise that less players are being developed in the lower divisions and it certainly won't be EU/non EU players that are destroying the grass roots.
    The FA destroyed English football when it forced the FL into allowing the Premiership to come into existence.
  • Best thing the FA could do is revisit the way TV money is shared between all football clubs.
    It costs a lot for clubs to run academies and sell on fees have collapsed since the Premiership took all bar a few crumbs of the TV money pie.
    No surprise that less players are being developed in the lower divisions and it certainly won't be EU/non EU players that are destroying the grass roots.
    The FA destroyed English football when it forced the FL into allowing the Premiership to come into existence.

    I would disagree that the FA destroyed English football by allowing the EPL to come into existence. There's no doubt that something that generates that amount of revenue for football should be a good thing. But as you say the issue is how that money is distributed, too much of it going to the big clubs, and too little of it filtering down throughout the lower leagues.
  • Its good that he is thinking about the future of England and getting more youngsters through but on Talksport yesterday they said if this was in place over the past 4 years only 8 of the 24 non EU players signed would have been stopped from coming as South Americans for example use European passports.

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