Nah not surprised either - Imagine trying to sort out the EFL Trophy now?
Sheffield Wednesday wouldnt go into the Southern Draw in our place and wont just be a case of moving another Northern team down instead, as with League One / League Two teams they try to do the draw so that those teams dont have to do too much travelling
Keep our place in the trophy but ask if we can enter as an U23 side.
Has there ever been a more inept and spineless sporting organisation as the Football League?
They put in place some lovely rules but when clubs breach those rules they don't have the bottle to oversee the disciplinary hearings themselves, instead farming them out to an "independent" commission, and then doing nothing when the resulting punishment is manifestly lenient and, to be honest, very, very wrong.
It's about time the FL was disbanded and a new organisation put in place that actually looked after the integrity of its competitions and the health and well-being of its member clubs instead of being the Premier League's poodle and soiling itself in the face of Premier League-wannabes.
You can see the confusion in the administration rule too. Why have 12 points? Why not just relegate. It is simple enough and when you complicate it amazingly makes your life more complicated for some reason. Any punishment has to act as a deterrent. Too late for us, but I think it is time for the EFL to look at itself.
You can see the confusion in the administration rule too. Why have 12 points? Why not just relegate. It is simple enough and when you complicate it amazingly makes your life more complicated for some reason. Any punishment has to act as a deterrent. Too late for us, but I think it is time for the EFL to look at itself.
Administration isn't always a matter of choice though. Yes, in the past some clubs have seen it as an easy option to hit the rest button and start again, but in other cases it's been a matter of unfortunate circumstances rather than a cold, calculated (cheating) decision.
The 12 point penalty seems fair enough and the timing of that deduction is OK with me; if it happens early enough in the season the immediate application is a significant hurdle to overcome and the post-March will-they-won't-they deduct points stops a Leeds-esque debacle of going into administration in the dying minutes of a relegation season to avoid a meaningful sanction.
SWFC want the points deduction moved into the 18/19 season where they finished 24 points clear of relegation.
Given that the Championship doesn’t dish out prize money based on final league standings, it would effectively render the punishment pointless.
They want to have their cake and eat it. And I wouldn’t put it past the EFL to let them get away with it.
I know our club is sitting in the hands of shysters but they’re not (sporting) cheats and not a single section of our fanbase is siding with ESI. Rather than playing victim on another team’s forum, I’d feel embarrassed if I was a Wednesday fan.
On that point, talk of an agenda is almost comical. SWFC haven’t been relevant since the 20th century so why would the EFL treat you any differently to the 71 other member clubs?
You can't retrospectively 'request' the points be deducted in a season when you know you wouldn't have been relegated. You don;t get to 'request' anything if you have cheated. Would they have asked this if the points deduction would have relegated them?!
Forgetting our woes for a second, if I was Macclesfield I would be absolutely bloody livid. The only reason they got relegated was because the EFL appealed the suspension of their points deduction, but this doesn't happen with Sheffield Wednesday.
Forgetting our woes for a second, if I was Macclesfield I would be absolutely bloody livid. The only reason they got relegated was because the EFL appealed the suspension of their points deduction, but this doesn't happen with Sheffield Wednesday.
Yes, we understand that the EFL preference for Wednesday was a punishment in 19/20 but they acted with Macclesfield and not with Wednesday. Wouldn't it be a fair basis for Macclesfield to take some legal action?
Forgetting our woes for a second, if I was Macclesfield I would be absolutely bloody livid. The only reason they got relegated was because the EFL appealed the suspension of their points deduction, but this doesn't happen with Sheffield Wednesday.
Yes, we understand that the EFL preference for Wednesday was a punishment in 19/20 but they acted with Macclesfield and not with Wednesday. Wouldn't it be a fair basis for Macclesfield to take some legal action?
Expecting consistency from the FL with respect to big(gish) and small clubs?
It is the Daily Fail after all but seems Sheffield Wednesday now want EFL clubs to be allowed to pick who they want to be in the Jury for these independant panels!!
Thankfully everyone else rejected the suggestion yet shows the absolute cheek of that club to even try and suggest it
The change put forward by Redgate was to be able to VETO an appointment. The current rules already allowed SW, the respondent, to appoint one "independent" representative of the three man disciplinary committee. Only the chairman is appointed independently by the Arbitration Service.
The sensible EFL new proposal was that all three committee members would be appointed by the Arbitration Service.
Classic example of how the club owners themselves protect their own interests rather than the interests of the fans or football itself.
Whilst I can understand Charlton fans anger in the manner you got relagated ( last second goal by Barnsley, injury time goal for Wednesday at hillsboro) what I will say is we all have to stick to the facts, and the facts are the EFL have tried their best to relegate us over this however due to their own balls up and the fact they okayed everything it has made them look tits...as a result of collateral damage Charlton now find them playing in L1 again ( if it ever starts)
Wednesday will be appealing this 'agenda' against us and hopefully justice will result in us getting the 12 points wiped off next season ...but I wont hold my breath.
Care to offer an opinion on the 'fake' sponsors Wednesday have, sure there was an energy drink or a clothing company, but mainly the taxi firm that advertises all around the ground yet isn't actually a taxi firm, has no money and is owned by, yes you've guessed it, Chansiri.
Another scam to try and get around FFP or is that just a misunderstanding too?
Whilst I can understand Charlton fans anger in the manner you got relagated ( last second goal by Barnsley, injury time goal for Wednesday at hillsboro) what I will say is we all have to stick to the facts, and the facts are the EFL have tried their best to relegate us over this however due to their own balls up and the fact they okayed everything it has made them look tits...as a result of collateral damage Charlton now find them playing in L1 again ( if it ever starts)
Wednesday will be appealing this 'agenda' against us and hopefully justice will result in us getting the 12 points wiped off next season ...but I wont hold my breath.
Care to offer an opinion on the 'fake' sponsors Wednesday have, sure there was an energy drink or a clothing company, but mainly the taxi firm that advertises all around the ground yet isn't actually a taxi firm, has no money and is owned by, yes you've guessed it, Chansiri.
Another scam to try and get around FFP or is that just a misunderstanding too?
Sheffield Wednesday owner Dejphon Chansiri is securing a debt against Hillsborough Stadium, according to documents seen by BBC Radio Sheffield.
A pending charge against the stadium - a legal way of securing a loan - was lodged with the Land Registry on 30 September.
It means the Owls' ground, which was bought by Chansiri for £60m to try to ensure the Championship club did not breach spending rules, is at risk of being sold if repayments are not kept.
The inclusion of the profits in Wednesday's 2017-18 accounts, despite the ground being sold a year later, led to the club being deducted 12 points for the 2020-21 season.
An independent disciplinary panel found that the club were guilty of an historic breach of the Championship's profitability and sustainability rules.
Wednesday have signalled their intention to appeal against the ruling.
What's happening at Wednesday?
Hillsborough is owned by Sheffield 3 Limited, a company controlled by Wednesday chairman Chansiri.
Chansiri agreed to pay £60m for Hillsborough, with the club's 2017-18 accounts showing that an initial payment of £7.5m was due within one year. The 2018-19 accounts are now two months overdue at Companies House.
The pending charge has been registered by New Avenue Projects Limited, a company which has previously acted as an intermediary, matching clubs who need finance with lenders, and taking a commission on the deal.
It means financing of the loan may involve an unknown third party, which could be an individual or a financial institution.
New Avenue Projects Limited is owned and run by Nigel Weiss, a former city finance lawyer.
When asked about the nature of the charge placed on Hillsborough, Weiss and Sheffield Wednesday declined to comment.
Change in strategy
Up to 2018 Chansiri had supported the Owls with loans totalling over £77m.
Dr Dan Plumley, a sports finance expert at Sheffield Hallam University, told BBC Radio Sheffield the debt marks a shift in approach.
He said: "The owner has already pumped in a significant amount of money over the years, why is it not the case that he can just do the same again?"
Whilst Dr Plumley says the debt might not be a serious issue now, there could be "alarm bells" in the future.
He added: "What if the owner wishes to sell in the future? What if he walks away? What if he hasn't got the funds? What happens if Sheffield Wednesday drop down to the next division with the points deduction?"
The Sheffield Wednesday Supporters' Trust have called on the club to provide clarity.
James Silverwood, the group's interim director, said the news was a "worrying direction of travel".
"If this is nothing to worry about just explain to us why it's nothing to worry about," he said.
Other financial questions
The Owls' accounts for the 2018-19 season are expected to show a fall in the club's wage bill.
Wednesday have also significantly reduced spending on player transfers since the start of 2018.
Events off the pitch have also suggested issues with cash flow.
In January the Owls launched a 10-year season ticket, while early-bird season tickets for the 2020-21 campaign were put on sale in the same month with a purchase deadline set of 10 February.
I did hear that the accounts will show they have overspent again. Time will tell.
Not having proper sponsors means that the owner pays for everything. If anything happens to him or his income they are serious trouble.
If he is now borrowing money using the stadium as security, if he defaults on payments the ground could belong to a finance company of some sort which would be worrying for them.
Good for football if a cheating club fell into financial problems, but I would hope they survive, but in a lower league.
I did hear that the accounts will show they have overspent again. Time will tell.
Not having proper sponsors means that the owner pays for everything. If anything happens to him or his income they are serious trouble.
If he is now borrowing money using the stadium as security, if he defaults on payments the ground could belong to a finance company of some sort which would be worrying for them.
Good for football if a cheating club fell into financial problems, but I would hope they survive, but in a lower league.
I did hear that the accounts will show they have overspent again. Time will tell.
Not having proper sponsors means that the owner pays for everything. If anything happens to him or his income they are serious trouble.
If he is now borrowing money using the stadium as security, if he defaults on payments the ground could belong to a finance company of some sort which would be worrying for them.
Good for football if a cheating club fell into financial problems, but I would hope they survive, but in a lower league.
Sheffield & Hallamshire County Senior Football League.
He is the son of a billionaire rather than an actual billionaire in his own right isn't he? If so maybe Dad has said no more!
Nigel Weiss... I wonder if he is a relation to Aubrey Weiss who I think owned Elland Road and Leeds training ground for a while when Leeds were in trouble. Quite a common Jewish surname though I think so possibly not.
I did hear that the accounts will show they have overspent again. Time will tell.
Not having proper sponsors means that the owner pays for everything. If anything happens to him or his income they are serious trouble.
If he is now borrowing money using the stadium as security, if he defaults on payments the ground could belong to a finance company of some sort which would be worrying for them.
Good for football if a cheating club fell into financial problems, but I would hope they survive, but in a lower league.
I hope the FA fully investigate all issues and on a timely basis!
I did hear that the accounts will show they have overspent again. Time will tell.
Not having proper sponsors means that the owner pays for everything. If anything happens to him or his income they are serious trouble.
If he is now borrowing money using the stadium as security, if he defaults on payments the ground could belong to a finance company of some sort which would be worrying for them.
Good for football if a cheating club fell into financial problems, but I would hope they survive, but in a lower league.
I hope the FA fully investigate all issues and on a timely basis!
There's a far higher chance the FA will do something/anything about the blatant chicanery than the EFL ever will.
I did hear that the accounts will show they have overspent again. Time will tell.
Not having proper sponsors means that the owner pays for everything. If anything happens to him or his income they are serious trouble.
If he is now borrowing money using the stadium as security, if he defaults on payments the ground could belong to a finance company of some sort which would be worrying for them.
Good for football if a cheating club fell into financial problems, but I would hope they survive, but in a lower league.
I hope the FA fully investigate all issues and on a timely basis!
There's a far higher chance the FA will do something/anything about the blatant chicanery than the EFL ever will.
I may not have appreciated the difference - I just hope someone does and they got what they deserve in the season they deserve!
Comments
And still watch us get beaten for pace down the flanks ...
They put in place some lovely rules but when clubs breach those rules they don't have the bottle to oversee the disciplinary hearings themselves, instead farming them out to an "independent" commission, and then doing nothing when the resulting punishment is manifestly lenient and, to be honest, very, very wrong.
It's about time the FL was disbanded and a new organisation put in place that actually looked after the integrity of its competitions and the health and well-being of its member clubs instead of being the Premier League's poodle and soiling itself in the face of Premier League-wannabes.
The 12 point penalty seems fair enough and the timing of that deduction is OK with me; if it happens early enough in the season the immediate application is a significant hurdle to overcome and the post-March will-they-won't-they deduct points stops a Leeds-esque debacle of going into administration in the dying minutes of a relegation season to avoid a meaningful sanction.
Thankfully everyone else rejected the suggestion yet shows the absolute cheek of that club to even try and suggest it
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8652645/EFL-members-shocked-conduct-Sheffield-Wednesday-director-John-Redgate.html
The change put forward by Redgate was to be able to VETO an appointment. The current rules already allowed SW, the respondent, to appoint one "independent" representative of the three man disciplinary committee. Only the chairman is appointed independently by the Arbitration Service.
The sensible EFL new proposal was that all three committee members would be appointed by the Arbitration Service.
Classic example of how the club owners themselves protect their own interests rather than the interests of the fans or football itself.
Will they now move the sale of the stadium into the later year?
Another scam to try and get around FFP or is that just a misunderstanding too?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54436076
Sheffield Wednesday owner Dejphon Chansiri is securing a debt against Hillsborough Stadium, according to documents seen by BBC Radio Sheffield.
A pending charge against the stadium - a legal way of securing a loan - was lodged with the Land Registry on 30 September.
It means the Owls' ground, which was bought by Chansiri for £60m to try to ensure the Championship club did not breach spending rules, is at risk of being sold if repayments are not kept.
The inclusion of the profits in Wednesday's 2017-18 accounts, despite the ground being sold a year later, led to the club being deducted 12 points for the 2020-21 season.
An independent disciplinary panel found that the club were guilty of an historic breach of the Championship's profitability and sustainability rules.
Wednesday have signalled their intention to appeal against the ruling.
What's happening at Wednesday?
Hillsborough is owned by Sheffield 3 Limited, a company controlled by Wednesday chairman Chansiri.
Chansiri agreed to pay £60m for Hillsborough, with the club's 2017-18 accounts showing that an initial payment of £7.5m was due within one year. The 2018-19 accounts are now two months overdue at Companies House.
The pending charge has been registered by New Avenue Projects Limited, a company which has previously acted as an intermediary, matching clubs who need finance with lenders, and taking a commission on the deal.
It means financing of the loan may involve an unknown third party, which could be an individual or a financial institution.
New Avenue Projects Limited is owned and run by Nigel Weiss, a former city finance lawyer.
When asked about the nature of the charge placed on Hillsborough, Weiss and Sheffield Wednesday declined to comment.
Change in strategy
Up to 2018 Chansiri had supported the Owls with loans totalling over £77m.
Dr Dan Plumley, a sports finance expert at Sheffield Hallam University, told BBC Radio Sheffield the debt marks a shift in approach.
He said: "The owner has already pumped in a significant amount of money over the years, why is it not the case that he can just do the same again?"
Whilst Dr Plumley says the debt might not be a serious issue now, there could be "alarm bells" in the future.
He added: "What if the owner wishes to sell in the future? What if he walks away? What if he hasn't got the funds? What happens if Sheffield Wednesday drop down to the next division with the points deduction?"
The Sheffield Wednesday Supporters' Trust have called on the club to provide clarity.
James Silverwood, the group's interim director, said the news was a "worrying direction of travel".
"If this is nothing to worry about just explain to us why it's nothing to worry about," he said.
Other financial questions
The Owls' accounts for the 2018-19 season are expected to show a fall in the club's wage bill.
Wednesday have also significantly reduced spending on player transfers since the start of 2018.
Events off the pitch have also suggested issues with cash flow.
In January the Owls launched a 10-year season ticket, while early-bird season tickets for the 2020-21 campaign were put on sale in the same month with a purchase deadline set of 10 February.
In June it emerged some of the club's players had not been paid in full, but the matter was later resolved.
Wednesday also furloughed a significant number of staff during lockdown earlier this year. Salaries were topped up to 100% by the club.
Football clubs across the English Football League are struggling with coronavirus restrictions that have forced stadiums to remain closed.
The EFL has estimated the impact across its three divisions of a full season without fans to be around £250m.
If he is now borrowing money using the stadium as security, if he defaults on payments the ground could belong to a finance company of some sort which would be worrying for them.
Good for football if a cheating club fell into financial problems, but I would hope they survive, but in a lower league.
Nigel Weiss... I wonder if he is a relation to Aubrey Weiss who I think owned Elland Road and Leeds training ground for a while when Leeds were in trouble. Quite a common Jewish surname though I think so possibly not.