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It was forty years ago today that John Lennon died [edit now 43 - 12/23]

jimmymelrosejimmymelrose
edited December 2023 in Not Sports Related
It's still so sad. He was just 'starting over' with a new album, after a five year rest from music to look after his son, and probably more gems to come but which never were.

He was 40 years old and died forty years ago today on 8th December 1980.

I remember it well. I was 8 years old and I remember the shock of the assassination on the news, and the playing of his music on the radio that led to him having, I think, three songs in the top three at Christmas.

If only he had lived, he would have been a good influence on the world.
RIP forever John. 

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    MrOneLungMrOneLung

    If only he had lived, he would have been a good influence on the world.

    Would he ? 
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    golfaddickgolfaddick
    Doubt it. He was a misogynistic arse with a chip on his shoulder. 
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    RobRob
    golfaddick said:
    Doubt it. He was a misogynistic arse with a chip on his shoulder. 
    Do you have proof of that? I'd like to see where that has come from.

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    golfaddickgolfaddick
    Rob said:
    golfaddick said:
    Doubt it. He was a misogynistic arse with a chip on his shoulder. 
    Do you have proof of that? I'd like to see where that has come from.

    What the misogynistic bit or the arse bit. It's well documented that he was both mentally & physically abusive to both wives, had a lover in the early 70's when married to Yoko & virtually cut out Julian from his will. Then there are some of his songs.....working class hero, I'm so tired etc etc. He was a great writer & had a great turn of phrase (his poetry books are a great read) but he was not a "nice" man. 
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    paulie8290paulie8290
    40 years on and the bloke who killed him is still in Prison 

    The American justice system for you, if it was over here he would have been out 30 years ago with good behaviour 
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    guinnessaddickguinnessaddick
    My old maths teacher was John Lennon, remember walking into class that morning and saying to him, I thought you were shot.
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    AFKABartramAFKABartram
    I have it I my head that at the time or sometime after, it was covered by Shaw Taylor and Police Five. Yet thinking it now, it seems very unlikely.

    Is this a dream that’s stayed with me for nearly 40 years???
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    lolwraylolwray
    edited December 2020
    Realistically his career was on the wane when he was assassinated..the "comeback " music that was released post his death was pretty average in my opinion. 

    That isn't meant in any way to belittle his previous achievements 
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    Addick AddictAddick Addict
    AFKABartram said:
    I have it I my head that at the time or sometime after, it was covered by Shaw Taylor and Police Five. Yet thinking it now, it seems very unlikely.

    Is this a dream that’s stayed with me for nearly 40 years???
    Shaw Taylor did claim to be the first to interview the four Beatles when he was on Radio Luxembourg but that's the only connection I can find. 
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    EveshamAddickEveshamAddick
    I seem to recall that Double Fantasy was trashed on release but was swiftly reappraised when he was killed 3 weeks later.
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    Brendan_O_ConnellBrendan_O_Connell
    RIP
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    CafcWestCafcWest
    Remember it well.  Wore a black armband into work - they thought I was crazy!  Still think (conspiracy theory) that it was set up by the FBI.  Lennon was causing all sorts of stirs in US politics at the time and had a big youth following - they considered him very dangerous at inciting the youth.
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    soapboxsamsoapboxsam
    edited December 2020
    paulie8290 said:
    40 years on and the bloke who killed him is still in Prison 

    The American justice system for you, if it was over here he would have been out 30 years ago with good behaviour 

    The big difference in the American system is they listen to the words of the nearest and dearest, Yoko Ono and she feels Chapman could still be a threat to Julian or Sean and the parole board concur.

    Our Views carry less weight in the UK and that is why we have many recidivists who sweet talk the parole board into believing they are changed people.
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    eaststandmikeeaststandmike
    paulie8290 said:
    40 years on and the bloke who killed him is still in Prison 

    The American justice system for you, if it was over here he would have been out 30 years ago with good behaviour 
    30 years?, more like 14 plus a new identity, police protection and an income from the tax payer as he would not be able to work. 
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    kentaddickkentaddick
    golfaddick said:
    Rob said:
    golfaddick said:
    Doubt it. He was a misogynistic arse with a chip on his shoulder. 
    Do you have proof of that? I'd like to see where that has come from.

    What the misogynistic bit or the arse bit. It's well documented that he was both mentally & physically abusive to both wives, had a lover in the early 70's when married to Yoko & virtually cut out Julian from his will. Then there are some of his songs.....working class hero, I'm so tired etc etc. He was a great writer & had a great turn of phrase (his poetry books are a great read) but he was not a "nice" man. 
    his treatment of julian was despicable, i can never understand being so awful to your own child like that. 

    But that's before you even get into his physical abuse... He was also a bit of an arse to the other beatles, but they just put up with it because he was good at his job. 
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    thenewbiethenewbie
    Rob said:
    golfaddick said:
    Doubt it. He was a misogynistic arse with a chip on his shoulder. 
    Do you have proof of that? I'd like to see where that has come from.

    There's plenty of evidence out there to say that Lennon as a person was a complete prick. There's things that arguably explain SOME of it (a rough childhood and the pressure of being a global star) but not all, and excuse none of it.

    This doesn't devalue his undoubted talent (beyond some of his songwriting looking a little bit hypocritical) but there's too much to just dismiss out of hand in all honesty.
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    kentaddickkentaddick
    edited December 2020
    lolwray said:
    Realistically his career was on the wane when he was assassinated..the "comeback " music that was released post his death was pretty average in my opinion. 

    That isn't meant in any way to belittle his previous achievements 
    yep, the beatle that imo had the finest solo career/music career outside of the beatles was George Harrison. All things must pass is a masterpiece and so was all the travelling wilbury's stuff. I'd say the beatles' most interesting work came from songs he wrote as well.
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    jimmymelrosejimmymelrose
    I'm surprised to read so many slagging of John Lennon on here. If he were guilty of abuse, would he not have been convicted? Innocent until proven guilty does still apply in our society, doesn't it?

    As for the other Beatles disliking him, would they be honouring him (see links below) if that were true. Everyone has their faults. Why this new trend of finding fault with past historical figures instead of recognising their greatness? If there were a Lennon statue, would it suffer the same disrespect as the Churchill one? Have people taken leave of their senses?

    https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1369700/The-Beatles-Ringo-Starr-John-Lennon-death-40th-anniversary-Strawberry-Fields-Forever

    https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1269697/Paul-McCartney-John-Lennon-The-Beatles-documentary-Get-Back

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/mccartney-lennon-reunited-before-death-074820332.html
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    JaShea99JaShea99
    eaststandmike said:
    paulie8290 said:
    40 years on and the bloke who killed him is still in Prison 

    The American justice system for you, if it was over here he would have been out 30 years ago with good behaviour 
    30 years?, more like 14 plus a new identity, police protection and an income from the tax payer as he would not be able to work. 
    So he’d have served 26 years?? I very much doubt that.
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    jimmymelrosejimmymelrose
    edited December 2020
    MrOneLung said:

    If only he had lived, he would have been a good influence on the world.

    Would he ? 

    He was trying in his own way to make the world a better place.
    So yes, I believe strongly that in his older and wiser years he would done more to more effectively try to protest against war, and probably lead the way for other noble causes. We will never really know but why on earth do you think he would have been a bad influence? 

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    jimmymelrosejimmymelrose
    edited December 2020
    golfaddick said:
    Doubt it. He was a misogynistic arse with a chip on his shoulder. 
    Yes, that's so obvious when you listen to 'Woman'

    I was expecting people, you being one of them in particular, to talk about what they remember of the day we heard the bad news, but obviously you saw it as good news then. That's not how I remember it. Just how many Beatles albums did you own? All but one I think? You also watched numerous Beatles documentaries and bought books on The Beatles. You also listened to and enjoyed Lennon's solo material. Why? Because he was an arse? Is that how you related to him?
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    soapboxsamsoapboxsam
    edited December 2020
    Andy Peebles(radio 1) had been to New York and in the interviews which were going to be played that day or week, Lennon according to the interview and Peebles comments was finding a new contentment and a new direction. John Lennon was a complex character who had baggage but he will remain for evermore a legend in the music industry.

    John had a half life as he died at 40 not 80 which is the average for males in the UK and the USA. The second half of his life may have become less manic. 

    We will never know now because of the loser Chapman.


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    Covered EndCovered End
    I remember it well.
    I went to a party in Erith that night and a lot of Lennon records were played. Emotional.
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    thenewbiethenewbie
    jimmymelrose said:
    I'm surprised to read so many slagging of John Lennon on here. If he were guilty of abuse, would he not have been convicted? Innocent until proven guilty does still apply in our society, doesn't it?

    As for the other Beatles disliking him, would they be honouring him (see links below) if that were true. Everyone has their faults. Why this new trend of finding fault with past historical figures instead of recognising their greatness? If there were a Lennon statue, would it suffer the same disrespect as the Churchill one? Have people taken leave of their senses?

    https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1369700/The-Beatles-Ringo-Starr-John-Lennon-death-40th-anniversary-Strawberry-Fields-Forever

    https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1269697/Paul-McCartney-John-Lennon-The-Beatles-documentary-Get-Back

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/mccartney-lennon-reunited-before-death-074820332.html


    Someone can be both. An anti-war protestor and advocate for peace who ALSO is someone who was abusive to his own son and by his own admission hit women is clearly more complex than a Messiah figure.


    https://www.dailycal.org/2017/11/13/john-lennon-beatles-yoko-ono-cynthia-imagine/

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/ypa9b5/you-dont-have-to-imagine-john-lennon-beat-women-and-childrenits-just-a-fact

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4713954/Dad-was-a-hypocrite.-He-could-talk-about-peace-and-love-to-the-world-but-he-could-never-show-it-to-his-wife-and-son.html


    It's not character assassination to say that Lennon the man was much less pure and ideal than Lennon the icon.
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    jimmymelrosejimmymelrose
    RIP John.

    As Paul once wrote:
     ’there is good and bad in everyone’


    https://youtu.be/27Q_AG_nLIo?si=KFGSDOF85ZQmklRZ
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    golfaddickgolfaddick
    jimmymelrose said:
    golfaddick said:
    Doubt it. He was a misogynistic arse with a chip on his shoulder. 
    Yes, that's so obvious when you listen to 'Woman'

    I was expecting people, you being one of them in particular, to talk about what they remember of the day we heard the bad news, but obviously you saw it as good news then. That's not how I remember it. Just how many Beatles albums did you own? All but one I think? You also watched numerous Beatles documentaries and bought books on The Beatles. You also listened to and enjoyed Lennon's solo material. Why? Because he was an arse? Is that how you related to him?
    I think he died the same day as our Nan. Cant believe that is 43 years ago either. 
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