I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
I really wish I could cut ties with the addiction that is Charlton.
So many miserable old farts. It was the same in the Premier league and it was likely the same before. It seems it is just being a football fan.
No you don't have to be 'happy clappers' but Christ in the scheme of things it isn't so important that you need to let that negativity take over every fibre of your beings and spread it like an sti.
I really wish I could cut ties with the addiction that is Charlton.
So many miserable old farts. It was the same in the Premier league and it was likely the same before. It seems it is just being a football fan.
No you don't have to be 'happy clappers' but Christ in the scheme of things it isn't so important that you need to let that negativity take over every fibre of your beings and spread it like an sti.
I really wish I could cut ties with the addiction that is Charlton.
So many miserable old farts. It was the same in the Premier league and it was likely the same before. It seems it is just being a football fan.
No you don't have to be 'happy clappers' but Christ in the scheme of things it isn't so important that you need to let that negativity take over every fibre of your beings and spread it like an sti.
Am I the only one who cares about our style of play in the first team 10%, but cares about getting points 90%? Yeah we can go on about the kind of shithousery from Wycombe, but we were crap yet got shedloads of red and yellow cards, and didn’t reach the playoffs.
There you go complaining...we got the worst record for reds and yellows on the EFL league 1 calculations. That takes real determination.
A lot of the cards were down to stupid and pointless fouls and constant moaning to the refs by Stockley and Washington.
One of our problems last season was that we were nowhere near as smart as some of the other teams in hiding our fouls or in making it clear when we were being fouled. In fact, I'd go further in saying that there was a distinct lack of intelligence and creativity in the team at times.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
I think the problem is that some managers are branded as good when really they just had good players in that job. And vice versa.
So essentially its impossible to know if any manager ever is good or is it the sum of all parts(manager and player) coming together successfully.
Am I the only one who cares about our style of play in the first team 10%, but cares about getting points 90%? Yeah we can go on about the kind of shithousery from Wycombe, but we were crap yet got shedloads of red and yellow cards, and didn’t reach the playoffs.
There you go complaining...we got the worst record for reds and yellows on the EFL league 1 calculations. That takes real determination.
A lot of the cards were down to stupid and pointless fouls and constant moaning to the refs by Stockley and Washington.
One of our problems last season was that we were nowhere near as smart as some of the other teams in hiding our fouls or in making it clear when we were being fouled. In fact, I'd go further in saying that there was a distinct lack of intelligence and creativity in the team at times.
We have had very few players over the last decade or so that are well versed in the dark arts.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
I think the problem is that some managers are branded as good when really they just had good players in that job. And vice versa.
So essentially its impossible to know if any manager ever is good or is it the sum of all parts(manager and player) coming together successfully.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
How many managers ever over achieve for more than a very short period of time though?
Every clubs success comes when everything comes together doesn't it?
I feel the same with Beale he could being though our young players effectively and with all that talent there is a unique opportunity at charlton. however, to take advantage of that will need sandgaard to allow beale the time and be patient.. not just TS but us fans too.
Singing you don't know what your doing after a dozen games next season as we have 67% possession in so many matches but win 3, lose 3 and draw 6 won't help.
Just checking for a friend but would we rather just miss out playing the MK Dons way, or get promoted playing similar to Rotherham ( Michael Smith and Stockley are similar) who were promoted and Wycombe who have a 50/50 chance of being promoted ?
IF/When Fraser gets fit the best way to get out of League 1 is to dovetail the two styles of ball retention but also sharp quick attacks with quality balls into the box from advanced positions so either Stockley/Aneke two of the best header of the ball can run on to. On the desk as well for our new attacking midfielder or new replacement for Washington to run on to.
Mix and match with relationships all over the field.
Tough gig at Cafc, Pompey, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Sunderland, Bolton, now Derby. All those teams have fans who believe their teams are "massive", Charlton Athletic fans as well as Wednesday and the rest of the above.
Rotherham are certainly much more direct than MK Dons, but they weren’t what I would consider a long ball team by any stretch of the imagination.
All the balls that went into Smith in the two games I saw against them were played with quality, pace and usually into a channel he was moving into where he could control and bring other players into the game.
And usually that out ball was only played if they couldn’t move it though the thirds quickly on a turn over of play.
Long ball to me is usually when teams smash the ball high into the air for the striker to try and head it onto runners.
Quality long passes normally diagonal from Naby Sarr(yes, really on occasions) and demonstrated by the magic in his boots Trent Alexander-Arnold are nothing to do will pointless long straight hoof balls that go flying over a 6ft 4in strikers head.
That why I said crossing from an advanced positions not aimless long passes from the back by the likes of Famewo, Pearce etc in recent times.
It would be great to emulate the ball retention and scoring ability of Gus Poyet's Brighton team back in the 3rd tier when we couldn't get a kick or the attacking prowess of Eddie Howe's Bournemouth side when he played attacking football from League 2 right the way through to the Premier and the way he used Yann with passes to his feet was a master class in pass and move with the lighting quick Wilson as the main striker ahead of Yann to win the Championship.
At least 50% of Charlton fans wouldn't accept the transition and a possible 8th or 9th finish next season as yet another season in League 1 accrues.
Singing your not fit to wear the shirt is hindering bonding with the better player like Dobson, Clare and CBT.
Reposted and edited as "entitled" seemed to upset and I believe I made some salient points. Just my opinion but the new guy must be a strong character who can/ has sold his football template to the Sandgaard's. Everyone has to be on the same page.
Im going for Tuesday announcement ! Villa's last game Sunday. Travel to the Valley Monday for contract signing and press photo's. Announced Tuesday. (we can only hope )
Im going for Tuesday announcement ! Villa's last game Sunday. Travel to the Valley Monday for contract signing and press photo's. Announced Tuesday. (we can only hope )
Cue total melt down if it doesn't happen by Wednesday now.
I really wish I could cut ties with the addiction that is Charlton.
So many miserable old farts. It was the same in the Premier league and it was likely the same before. It seems it is just being a football fan.
No you don't have to be 'happy clappers' but Christ in the scheme of things it isn't so important that you need to let that negativity take over every fibre of your beings and spread it like an sti.
Im going for Tuesday announcement ! Villa's last game Sunday. Travel to the Valley Monday for contract signing and press photo's. Announced Tuesday. (we can only hope )
Andy G, as Beale is the assistant coach at Villa but the guy according to Stevie G that is a master tactician, wouldn't Villa announced it so he can have a good send off or is Big Ronnie Dangerfield still crossing the T's and dotting the i on the contract and Tuesday will be the day as you say ? I don't believe Beale would've applied again so olive branch from Thomas Sandgaard if it happens.
I feel the same with Beale he could being though our young players effectively and with all that talent there is a unique opportunity at charlton. however, to take advantage of that will need sandgaard to allow beale the time and be patient.. not just TS but us fans too.
Singing you don't know what your doing after a dozen games next season as we have 67% possession in so many matches but win 3, lose 3 and draw 6 won't help.
Just checking for a friend but would we rather just miss out playing the MK Dons way, or get promoted playing similar to Rotherham ( Michael Smith and Stockley are similar) who were promoted and Wycombe who have a 50/50 chance of being promoted ?
IF/When Fraser gets fit the best way to get out of League 1 is to dovetail the two styles of ball retention but also sharp quick attacks with quality balls into the box from advanced positions so either Stockley/Aneke two of the best header of the ball can run on to. On the desk as well for our new attacking midfielder or new replacement for Washington to run on to.
Mix and match with relationships all over the field.
Tough gig at Cafc, Pompey, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Sunderland, Bolton, now Derby. All those teams have fans who believe their teams are "massive", Charlton Athletic fans as well as Wednesday and the rest of the above.
Rotherham are certainly much more direct than MK Dons, but they weren’t what I would consider a long ball team by any stretch of the imagination.
All the balls that went into Smith in the two games I saw against them were played with quality, pace and usually into a channel he was moving into where he could control and bring other players into the game.
And usually that out ball was only played if they couldn’t move it though the thirds quickly on a turn over of play.
Long ball to me is usually when teams smash the ball high into the air for the striker to try and head it onto runners.
Quality long passes normally diagonal from Naby Sarr(yes, really on occasions) and demonstrated by the magic in his boots Trent Alexander-Arnold are nothing to do will pointless long straight hoof balls that go flying over a 6ft 4in strikers head.
That why I said crossing from an advanced positions not aimless long passes from the back by the likes of Famewo, Pearce etc in recent times.
It would be great to emulate the ball retention and scoring ability of Gus Poyet's Brighton team back in the 3rd tier when we couldn't get a kick or the attacking prowess of Eddie Howe's Bournemouth side when he played attacking football from League 2 right the way through to the Premier and the way he used Yann with passes to his feet was a master class in pass and move with the lighting quick Wilson as the main striker ahead of Yann to win the Championship.
At least 50% of Charlton fans wouldn't accept the transition and a possible 8th or 9th finish next season as yet another season in League 1 accrues.
Singing your not fit to wear the shirt is hindering bonding with the better player like Dobson, Clare and CBT.
Reposted and edited as "entitled" seemed to upset and I believe I made some salient points. Just my opinion but the new guy must be a strong character who can/ has sold his football template to the Sandgaard's. Everyone has to be on the same page.
Im going for Tuesday announcement ! Villa's last game Sunday. Travel to the Valley Monday for contract signing and press photo's. Announced Tuesday. (we can only hope )
Andy G, as Beale is the assistant coach at Villa but the guy according to Stevie G that is a master tactician, wouldn't Villa announced it so he can have a good send off or is Big Ronnie Dangerfield still crossing the T's and dotting the i on the contract and Tuesday will be the day as you say ? I don't believe Beale would've applied again so olive branch from Thomas Sandgaard if it happens.
He's not been there long enough to get that kind of pomp and ceremony.
Its not like he is a Jacko/Euell type figure who has been at the club for years in various roles and carries an affinity with the fanbase.
Comments
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
So many miserable old farts. It was the same in the Premier league and it was likely the same before. It seems it is just being a football fan.
No you don't have to be 'happy clappers' but Christ in the scheme of things it isn't so important that you need to let that negativity take over every fibre of your beings and spread it like an sti.
It's just whether we want to take the risk in League One when really we want to get into the Championship ASAP.
Hopefully, if it is him, he gets decent backing and left to turn the club around.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
Every clubs success comes when everything comes together doesn't it?
Les Reed is the other one BTW.
Reposted and edited as "entitled" seemed to upset and I believe I made some salient points. Just my opinion but the new guy must be a strong character who can/ has sold his football template to the Sandgaard's. Everyone has to be on the same page.
Andy G, as Beale is the assistant coach at Villa but the guy according to Stevie G that is a master tactician, wouldn't Villa announced it so he can have a good send off or is Big Ronnie Dangerfield still crossing the T's and dotting the i on the contract and Tuesday will be the day as you say ?
I don't believe Beale would've applied again so olive branch from Thomas Sandgaard if it happens.
Its not like he is a Jacko/Euell type figure who has been at the club for years in various roles and carries an affinity with the fanbase.