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Next manager - Ben Garner confirmed (p256)
Comments
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Could have happened earlier in the season though, but the usual Sandgaard antics put a stop to that.NorthStandUltra said:New manager won’t be Michael Beale, he’s been given permission by Villa to speak to QPR.Big miss IMO but unlikely to have happened given our League 1 status0 -
You can’t tell me what to do!Covered End said:A heads up to anyone that was thinking of reading the posts since last night - don't bother.
Beale looks like he's going to QPR and that's it.3 -
Or the owners son ?Stu_of_Kunming said:
League One is a much tougher league, but I’d be happy with Garner l, unfortunately if rumours are true of bat shit crazy contracts, we’ll be lucky to get a manager from a non league club.soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
Which is why, imo, we still don’t have one.Chunes said:Surely any manager with an ounce of sense won't agree to performance-related clauses when they have no control over recruitment.No manager, half a squad and the season starts earlier than ever before, but better not suggest other clubs are ahead of us.
Ben Garner took over Swindon with about 7 players and after Bristol Rovers didn't work out he didn't have many options of getting a manager's job in the EFL. Charlton would be a step up despite the implosion of the last decade or so at Cafc.
Just a gut instinct but ever since JJ left I have been convinced that the decision would be made on the 31/5 or 1/6.
I believe Cawley contacts have given him the correct information and unless Thomas Sandgaard has done a U-turn because of the initial negativity when RC did the scoop then Ben Garner will be orthe next person in the hot seat.
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Henry Irving said:
Charlton (fans/owners/players) try my fecking patience sometimesRylo said:
Did they really spell “patients” as “patience”?!paulg1947 said:And a view from left field-- Quote- The Zynex mission is to improve the quality of patience- WTF. We all know its to rip the patience off in this 'Land of the Free'' Thank God for Universal Health Care, With all its problems ,100% better than the U SDoctor: Mr. Bertenshaw?
Mr. B: Me, Doctor.
Doctor: No, me doctor, you Mr. Bertenshaw.
Mr. B: My wife, doctor...
Doctor: No, your wife patient.
Sister: Come with me, please.
Mr. B: Me, Sister?
Doctor: No, she Sister, me doctor, you Mr. Bertenshaw.
Nurse: Dr. Walters?
Doctor: Me, nurse...You Mr. Bertenshaw, she Sister, you doctor.
Sister: No, doctor.
Doctor: No Doctor? Call ambulance, keep warm.
Nurse: Drink, doctor?
Doctor: Drink doctor, eat Sister, cook Mr. Bertenshaw, nurse me!
Nurse: You, doctor?
Doctor: ME doctor!! You Mr. Bertenshaw. She Sister!
Mr. B: But my wife, nurse...
Doctor: Your wife not nurse. She nurse, your wife patient. Be patient, she nurse your wife. Me doctor, you tent, you tree, you Tarzan, me Jane, you Trent, you Trillo...me doctor!
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Yes, I don't want to imply that the comparison is identical ... simply that I'm sure that Sandgaard will have brought in similar principles if his stated business strategy (Hey, football is no different) is being applied.cabbles said:
Yes, but this is a job description for Sales Reps. All of this is pretty standard stuff for such a role.Dave Rudd said:A bit of factual analysis.
I've said (repeatedly) that Sandgaard is trying to bring his successful business principles into our world of football.
On that basis, I thought I'd take a look at the Job descriptions for current vacancies on his Zynex website.
Almost 90% of his 227 vacancies are for Medical Device Sales reps. and here's the wording he has used (italics and bold text are his, not mine):Do you want to join a successful fast-paced growing company with opportunity to help patients and make money?
The Zynex mission is to improve the life-quality of patients suffering from debilitating pain. We are seeking: Self-confident, self-starting, resourceful, assertive, and persuasive individuals who will promote and generate prescriptions from physical therapists and pain management doctors for our NexWave pain management device. The NexWave is an alternative to opioid pain medications. You must be able to build loyalty with clinicians and doctors developing your prescription-based stream of business. Able to demonstrate influencing and sales skills, and you must possess the drive and discipline to accomplish goals on a weekly basis. Previous sales experience is a plus, but you may qualify based on a strong desire to be the best. Requirements: Must have reliable transportation, valid driver’s license, and mobile phone. We offer training, a generous base salary, uncapped commissions, benefits, with a $20,000 sign-on bonus and management support for your success.
What I will highlight is this:
"you must possess the drive and discipline to accomplish goals on a weekly basis"
I'm pretty sure that this performance-related approach did for Jackson, and Sandgaard won't let that approach go. "Hey, it works in the business world, so why not use it here? Football is no different."
This is where Sandgaard needs to take advice. To find the middle ground.
Yes, have your performance targets. No problem with that. But any contract needs to include agreed caveats (on both sides), clearly identified extenuating circumstances (on both sides) and a mechanism to review if and when the unexpected happens (on both sides).
This is not typical practice in medical sales ... you either deliver or get the boot.
I suspect that our new manager hiring process is suffering from this type of inflexibility.
There needs to be an element of performance related pay/reward in every job. The issue I would imagine for a lot of candidates if I am reading the posts right is that managing/coaching us comes with a framework that some may not be able to work within because they don’t have the final say on recruitment or total control over the footballing side of things. I understand looking for comparisons with Zynex because I am sure a lot of what he does there in running the business is the same ethos he’s brought to us, but the comparison for his generic industry standard job ads for sales reps versus his approach to finding a manager will probably be a bit different.
We understand that the potential renewal of Jackson's contract was performance-related ... and Jackson was presumably 'let go' as he didn't reach the agreed targets.*
I am suggesting that part of any current delay in appointing a new manager may be due to the inclusion of black-and-white performance targets ... which, I believe, is unusual in the football world, but commonplace in Sandgaard's business world.
I'll leave it there. It's starting to feel laboured.
* Lots of speculation here, but this seems to be the general understanding
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This needs to stop - she’s 27 now.jimmymelrose said:LargeAddick said:
spot on. People last summer were concerned at the slow recruitment, labelled bedwetters, and look how that turned out.arny23394 said:Why are people labelled bedwetters for being concerned that we have no manager, and about 3 players good enough for a promotion chasing team? It’s exactly 2 months until our first game and we have so much to do. Bizarre.
Yeah, and also, people who worry about something a lot are less likely to wet the bed, as sleep is not forthcoming and toilet visits are facilitated.
My daughter never worries about Charlton's recruitment and she often wets the bed.3 -
Yes. Russell Slade did it.Rylo said:
Did they really spell “patients” as “patience”?!paulg1947 said:And a view from left field-- Quote- The Zynex mission is to improve the quality of patience- WTF. We all know its to rip the patience off in this 'Land of the Free'' Thank God for Universal Health Care, With all its problems ,100% better than the U S2 -
I believe what actually occurs is more like:blackpool72 said:
Thomas has said it's Sandgaard junior that identifies new players and Gallen does the negotiations with their clubs and agents.jacob_CAFC said:Why are we assuming that the manager has no say in the transfers?
Not sure where that leaves the manager but it could be a reason why we haven't appointed one yet.- Manager specifies what they need to Martin, Thomas & Steve.
- Martin & his data team plug the info and requirements into the 'black box'
- Martin presents findings to Thomas, Steve & Manager
- Everyone provides their input into whether the player is suitable
- Thomas takes all input into consideration and gives go ahead to Steve to start process to try to obtain player or rejects the suggestion
- Steve goes and approaches clubs, players and agents, negotiates deals.
- Back and forth between recruitment team over value of player possibly occurs
- Thomas pays the money forward for the player or if not financially viable requests next best option from Martin's team. (Cycle back to Martin presenting findings)
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At this point, I’m not even sure an Adkins type would accept those clauses after seeing what happened at the Valley last season. And definitely not before pre season started.The Red Robin said:
Especially when they already have a job. The only type of manager you’re attracting with a contract like that is another Slade or Adkins. I.e, washed up and out of work.Chunes said:Surely any manager with an ounce of sense won't agree to performance-related clauses when they have no control over recruitment.
We’re going to end up in a Dave Hockaday situation at this rate.1 - Sponsored links:
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Most of the US job market is driven by employment practices known as “at will” with minimal notice periods. This means employment can be terminated for any reason by both sides. Obviously contract terms may be included at the higher end of the pyramid, and notice periods can be extended by negotiation depending on circumstances. The rest of the gibberish used in job specs is HR word salad, and any job would include the equivalent of “be able to do the job”. In short, flogging tabs is not a contracted time bound contract but it can be terminated at any time, subject to notice period and statutory regs ( eg week of money per year of service). There’s nothing that says they can reduce this in the event the contract is terminated (excluding for cause, which would apply equally to sacking a manager for cause rather than performance). In short he is not bringing a business approach in, he is reinventing the wheel to limit financial protection to his employees if his decision is wrong, he doesn’t like what he sees and/or doesn’t provide the tools and structure for a manager to succeed. It is shabby, cheap and unnecessary.Dave Rudd said:A bit of factual analysis.
I've said (repeatedly) that Sandgaard is trying to bring his successful business principles into our world of football.
On that basis, I thought I'd take a look at the Job descriptions for current vacancies on his Zynex website.
Almost 90% of his 227 vacancies are for Medical Device Sales reps. and here's the wording he has used (italics and bold text are his, not mine):Do you want to join a successful fast-paced growing company with opportunity to help patients and make money?
The Zynex mission is to improve the life-quality of patients suffering from debilitating pain. We are seeking: Self-confident, self-starting, resourceful, assertive, and persuasive individuals who will promote and generate prescriptions from physical therapists and pain management doctors for our NexWave pain management device. The NexWave is an alternative to opioid pain medications. You must be able to build loyalty with clinicians and doctors developing your prescription-based stream of business. Able to demonstrate influencing and sales skills, and you must possess the drive and discipline to accomplish goals on a weekly basis. Previous sales experience is a plus, but you may qualify based on a strong desire to be the best. Requirements: Must have reliable transportation, valid driver’s license, and mobile phone. We offer training, a generous base salary, uncapped commissions, benefits, with a $20,000 sign-on bonus and management support for your success.
What I will highlight is this:
"you must possess the drive and discipline to accomplish goals on a weekly basis"
I'm pretty sure that this performance-related approach did for Jackson, and Sandgaard won't let that approach go. "Hey, it works in the business world, so why not use it here? Football is no different."
This is where Sandgaard needs to take advice. To find the middle ground.
Yes, have your performance targets. No problem with that. But any contract needs to include agreed caveats (on both sides), clearly identified extenuating circumstances (on both sides) and a mechanism to review if and when the unexpected happens (on both sides).
This is not typical practice in medical sales ... you either deliver or get the boot.
I suspect that our new manager hiring process is suffering from this type of inflexibility.
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If she genuinely believes that, she’s out of her mind.DDOUBLEE said:
She doesn't want to come here, she views Chelsea women's side and the super League as a whole as the same level as the men's, so she wouldn't even go to a men's championship side if you ask meCafcSCP said:Emma Hayes anyone?
Great for publicity / Sponsorship.
Reckon she be great as a manager too.5 -
paulg1947 said:And a view from left field-- Quote- The Zynex mission is to improve the quality of patience- WTF. We all know its to rip the patience off in this 'Land of the Free'' Thank God for Universal Health Care, With all its problems ,100% better than the U SOur mission is to improve the quality of life of patients suffering from debilitating pain or illnesses by providing the highest technology and service standards in the electrotherapy industry.0
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I think it's something like that but haven't heard anything out of the club about the first one - that the process starts with the manager saying what they need. In fact, from what I've heard in interviews, the black box identifies players first and they are then put to the committee.Dazzler21 said:
I believe what actually occurs is more like:blackpool72 said:
Thomas has said it's Sandgaard junior that identifies new players and Gallen does the negotiations with their clubs and agents.jacob_CAFC said:Why are we assuming that the manager has no say in the transfers?
Not sure where that leaves the manager but it could be a reason why we haven't appointed one yet.- Manager specifies what they need to Martin, Thomas & Steve.
- Martin & his data team plug the info and requirements into the 'black box'
- Martin presents findings to Thomas, Steve & Manager
- Everyone provides their input into whether the player is suitable
- Thomas takes all input into consideration and gives go ahead to Steve to start process to try to obtain player or rejects the suggestion
- Steve goes and approaches clubs, players and agents, negotiates deals.
- Back and forth between recruitment team over value of player possibly occurs
- Thomas pays the money forward for the player or if not financially viable requests next best option from Martin's team. (Cycle back to Martin presenting findings)
Johnnie's mate (forget her name) on Twitter was adamant he had zero say in transfers whatsoever.
Should also remember that SG has said TS gives his opinion on players in terms of their ability and has vetoed them before. So he's not restricting himself to the role of facilitator.
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.0
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If true equality and parity is ever to be achieved in women’s sport then the elite coaches and influencers in the women’s arm of all sports need at some point to cross the barrier into men’s. If Emma Hayes was ever given the opportunity to manage championship or even league one football she should seriously consider doing so. Not only would it help break down barriers and prejudices but show that women can just as easily or not do the job. Being a pathfinder is always hard but she’s one of the few in women’s football that might be given that chance.arny23394 said:
If she genuinely believes that, she’s out of her mind.DDOUBLEE said:
She doesn't want to come here, she views Chelsea women's side and the super League as a whole as the same level as the men's, so she wouldn't even go to a men's championship side if you ask meCafcSCP said:Emma Hayes anyone?
Great for publicity / Sponsorship.
Reckon she be great as a manager too.0 -
Did you mean "not many chips"?The Red Robin said:
Plenty of Fish. She’s proper Charlton.Return of the SE7 said:
Mmmmm that's interesting. What site is she posting on? Asking for a mate.golfaddick said:
It's not him replying. He's got Sandra from Accounts doing his SM posting.J BLOCK said:
How he has the time as a big time business owner is beyond me.cafcsinger said:So weird we have a owner answering fans questions on LinkedIn (weird fans asking in first place too)1 - Sponsored links:
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Woah, we're half way thereCallumcafc said:
Woah, flyin with Finnair
Take my hand, we'll make it I swear
Woah, flyin with Finnair
Tommy's got his six-string in hock
Now he's holding in what he used to make it talk
So tough, it's tough
Gallen dreams of running away
When he cries in the night, Tommy whispers
Gallen, it's okay, someday...
etc...
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I think this maybe ( I don't know) be close to what happens.Dazzler21 said:
I believe what actually occurs is more like:blackpool72 said:
Thomas has said it's Sandgaard junior that identifies new players and Gallen does the negotiations with their clubs and agents.jacob_CAFC said:Why are we assuming that the manager has no say in the transfers?
Not sure where that leaves the manager but it could be a reason why we haven't appointed one yet.- Manager specifies what they need to Martin, Thomas & Steve.
- Martin & his data team plug the info and requirements into the 'black box'
- Martin presents findings to Thomas, Steve & Manager
- Everyone provides their input into whether the player is suitable
- Thomas takes all input into consideration and gives go ahead to Steve to start process to try to obtain player or rejects the suggestion
- Steve goes and approaches clubs, players and agents, negotiates deals.
- Back and forth between recruitment team over value of player possibly occurs
- Thomas pays the money forward for the player or if not financially viable requests next best option from Martin's team. (Cycle back to Martin presenting findings)
And that all seems fine but what we don't know is where the power and final veto is?
And there's the rub, because the ability to say "Stop" is vital in these situations.
Can anyone of the team say "no"?
Can a manager say "no"
Can a manager or Gallen "by-pass" the black box by saying my mate at Spurs has these kid who is very highly rated called Nile John or I think that Gallagher kid at Chelsea is worth a gamble if the black box says "no"
Can Thomas say "No, I don't think Washington scores enough 1 on 1s so let him go"? And what if Emma Hayes disagrees?
I don't know the answers to those questions and it's not clear from the conflicting statements made by TS how it works or where the veto/s are.
But they are the sort of questions a potential manager would be asking.
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what does owning companies have to do with your pessimism?1968CAFC said:
No actually I own 5 companies and have supported CAFC since 1968.Hal1x said:
Let me guess you are a glass half empty sort of person.1968CAFC said:Well lady’s & Gentlemen I hope I am proved wrong, but I am getting the feeling we will end up with someone far worse the JJ was and more has been crap players on free transfers or loans.
so far what has TS actually achieved apart from buy the Club? And he wants premier League football 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👎👎👎👎
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣1 -
Mr Halley's Comet now favourite for the managers job last worked in 1986.
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sholland said:Mr Halley's Comet now favourite for the managers job last worked in 1986.
Please don't be so formal, call me Bill.. 0 -
If it somehow comes out that the starting point isn't the manager specifying their needs, then I will join those that no longer support Sandgaard as it would be ludicrous. We don't know that as yet though suspicions are increasing.Chunes said:
I think it's something like that but haven't heard anything out of the club about the first one - That the process starts with the manager saying what they need. In fact, from what I've heard in interviews, the black box identifies players first and they are then put to the committee.Dazzler21 said:
I believe what actually occurs is more like:blackpool72 said:
Thomas has said it's Sandgaard junior that identifies new players and Gallen does the negotiations with their clubs and agents.jacob_CAFC said:Why are we assuming that the manager has no say in the transfers?
Not sure where that leaves the manager but it could be a reason why we haven't appointed one yet.- Manager specifies what they need to Martin, Thomas & Steve.
- Martin & his data team plug the info and requirements into the 'black box'
- Martin presents findings to Thomas, Steve & Manager
- Everyone provides their input into whether the player is suitable
- Thomas takes all input into consideration and gives go ahead to Steve to start process to try to obtain player or rejects the suggestion
- Steve goes and approaches clubs, players and agents, negotiates deals.
- Back and forth between recruitment team over value of player possibly occurs
- Thomas pays the money forward for the player or if not financially viable requests next best option from Martin's team. (Cycle back to Martin presenting findings)
Johnnie's mate (forget her name) on Twitter was adamant he had zero say in transfers whatsoever.
Should also remember that SG has said TS gives his opinion on players in terms of their ability and has vetoed them before. So he's not restricting himself to the role of facilitator.
With regard to TS facilitating, my thoughts were all of the recruitment team have input to the player.
I would expect the only two who shouldn't be able to veto a transfer completely should be MS and SG. If a manager does not want a player they should not be forced on them. Kirk to Adkins, or Schwartz to Bowyer for example, John to Jackson.
(As I understand it Jackson accepted Castillo coming with Aneke.)
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me too, I didn’t realise pessimism and Willy waving were one and the sameHal1x said:
what does owning companies have to do with your pessimism?1968CAFC said:
No actually I own 5 companies and have supported CAFC since 1968.Hal1x said:
Let me guess you are a glass half empty sort of person.1968CAFC said:Well lady’s & Gentlemen I hope I am proved wrong, but I am getting the feeling we will end up with someone far worse the JJ was and more has been crap players on free transfers or loans.
so far what has TS actually achieved apart from buy the Club? And he wants premier League football 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👎👎👎👎
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣10 -
True, but don't take that away from me Soundas ... it's all I've got - and I just wanted to join in.SoundAsa£ said:
A lot of unfounded speculation there Raith…..if you don’t mind me saying so. 🤔Raith_C_Chattonell said:I remember being shocked when Sandgaard announced that it wouldn't cost much to get rid of Jackson. I mean, Jackson was still in the job, hardly motivational to hear that and actually quite destabilising toboot. Now we hear that Garner is almost in the job, it's just that Sandaard is looking for someone better.
If I was Garner, and if I was told the job's probably mine, and if I'd been left dangling on a piece of string, and if Sandgaard's still looking for someone 'better,' and if after weeks of turmoil and disruption finally told the job is mine ... I'd tell him to 'go eff himself'.
I don't think Sandgaard need apply for a job in the diplomatic service,4 -
Does he look pessimistic to you?Swisdom said:
me too, I didn’t realise pessimism and Willy waving were one and the sameHal1x said:
what does owning companies have to do with your pessimism?1968CAFC said:
No actually I own 5 companies and have supported CAFC since 1968.Hal1x said:
Let me guess you are a glass half empty sort of person.1968CAFC said:Well lady’s & Gentlemen I hope I am proved wrong, but I am getting the feeling we will end up with someone far worse the JJ was and more has been crap players on free transfers or loans.
so far what has TS actually achieved apart from buy the Club? And he wants premier League football 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👎👎👎👎
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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He is in charge of air traffic control for that flight, the club have already booked a cab to pick up from Aberdeeneastterrace6168 said:0
https://youtu.be/UZM-9sRcBec
