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Michael Appleton - Sacked 23/1/2024 (p105)

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Comments

  • Good post, but I wouldn't necessarily bank on 'the inevitable Dobson-less future' - is it so obvious he's going to the Championship (and not with us)? He's very settled here, and he has small flaws in his game that might be accentuated at that level - it's possible he could do well at the level but he wouldn't be a massively obvious signing for a Championship club looking to strengthen.

    I'd also argue that a lot of Appleton's repurposings have made sense in the circumstances
  • I don't have much opinion on Appleton the person (as opposed to club legends like Bowyer or Jackson, or Adkins and Holden who deliberately attempted to connect with fans "personally") but I see it as a feature not a flaw.

    He's obviously been around the metaphorical block more than once and probably won't be here forever one way or the other - but again I do think really see that as a bad thing if it means that he gets the players into a semblance of order and organisation and then moves on (or is moved on) so that a proper long term solution can be put in place.

    He's doing exactly what we need him to do and probably as well as anyone could do it with the squad he's got. I don't see him ever writing his name in the history books as a hero like Curbishley or Powell - but I don't see him ever being a Fraeye or a Dowie either.
  • If I based all my opinions of individuals on overused .jpgs and crass inane attempts at humour...  Hold on!

    Pleasantly surprised by Mickey Apples,  he was dealt a hand that contained, journeyman wasters, raw youngsters, sicknotes,  and a sparse sprinkling of solid professionals.  Glad we are finally scoring but boy is our defence predictably shit still.  Your mission MA if you should choose to take it...
  • edited November 2023
    Leuth said:
    Good post, but I wouldn't necessarily bank on 'the inevitable Dobson-less future' - is it so obvious he's going to the Championship (and not with us)? He's very settled here, and he has small flaws in his game that might be accentuated at that level - it's possible he could do well at the level but he wouldn't be a massively obvious signing for a Championship club looking to strengthen.

    I'd also argue that a lot of Appleton's repurposings have made sense in the circumstances
    I don't think he'll necessarily get a Championship club, though equally I would expect one of the shithouse teams who survive (could be Rotherham, QPR, Birmingham, Stoke etc) might see a lot of value in a free midfielder who can plug gaps. Even if he doesn't get a Championship gig though are we going to pay him enough to stay? One of them teams that come down or a nearby team might just decide he's worth the wage on a free and offer more than our owners are willing to. It's less that I think he's destined for greater things and more that he's got 6 months left on his deal and will want a payrise. I guess we'll see, but it does feel like if our captain wanted to stay he'd have signed something by now. If he does stay I expect it'll be because we go up (nope) or because nothing else comes up at the level he was hoping for, which isn't hugely inspiring for us or him.
    I don't have a big issue with the repurposing given our squad size but I worry that it's going to be a thing with him. We'll probably never have a big enough squad to find out if it's needs must or if he's just mad though
  • Leuth said:
    Good post, but I wouldn't necessarily bank on 'the inevitable Dobson-less future' - is it so obvious he's going to the Championship (and not with us)? He's very settled here, and he has small flaws in his game that might be accentuated at that level - it's possible he could do well at the level but he wouldn't be a massively obvious signing for a Championship club looking to strengthen.

    I'd also argue that a lot of Appleton's repurposings have made sense in the circumstances
    I don't think he'll necessarily get a Championship club, though equally I would expect one of the shithouse teams who survive (could be Rotherham, QPR, Birmingham, Stoke etc) might see a lot of value in a free midfielder who can plug gaps. Even if he doesn't get a Championship gig though are we going to pay him enough to stay? One of them teams that come down or a nearby team might just decide he's worth the wage on a free and offer more than our owners are willing to. It's less that I think he's destined for greater things and more that he's got 6 months left on his deal and will want a payrise. I guess we'll see, but it does feel like if our captain wanted to stay he'd have signed something by now. If he does stay I expect it'll be because we go up (nope) or because nothing else comes up at the level he was hoping for, which isn't hugely inspiring for us or him.
    I don't have a big issue with the repurposing given our squad size but I worry that it's going to be a thing with him. We'll probably never have a big enough squad to find out if it's needs must or if he's just mad though
    Or perhaps he knows the longer he leaves it, the more leverage he'll have?
  • While this shows our form has been good, this stat also means that, despite that good form, we have not got any closer to the top 6.
  • If I remember rightly we were one position above the relegation zone when he came in and had won one game and lost four.

    For me he is doing what we could reasonably have hoped for, other than beating Cray Valley.
  • While this shows our form has been good, this stat also means that, despite that good form, we have not got any closer to the top 6.

    If we are 11th now and were 20th on September 1st then surely we are closer to the top 6 now than we were. Obviously the top six aren't all going to drop points to allow as to catch up in just a few weeks.
    6 points behind Barnsley in 6th is a big improvement on our shaky start to the season.

    We are still someway off playing wise with the inability to play the full 100 minutes with out losing our shape or making an error at the back but some light at the end of the tunnel.
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  • edited November 2023
    Leuth said:
    Good post, but I wouldn't necessarily bank on 'the inevitable Dobson-less future' - is it so obvious he's going to the Championship (and not with us)? He's very settled here, and he has small flaws in his game that might be accentuated at that level - it's possible he could do well at the level but he wouldn't be a massively obvious signing for a Championship club looking to strengthen.

    I'd also argue that a lot of Appleton's repurposings have made sense in the circumstances
    I don't think he'll necessarily get a Championship club, though equally I would expect one of the shithouse teams who survive (could be Rotherham, QPR, Birmingham, Stoke etc) might see a lot of value in a free midfielder who can plug gaps. Even if he doesn't get a Championship gig though are we going to pay him enough to stay? One of them teams that come down or a nearby team might just decide he's worth the wage on a free and offer more than our owners are willing to. It's less that I think he's destined for greater things and more that he's got 6 months left on his deal and will want a payrise. I guess we'll see, but it does feel like if our captain wanted to stay he'd have signed something by now. If he does stay I expect it'll be because we go up (nope) or because nothing else comes up at the level he was hoping for, which isn't hugely inspiring for us or him.
    I don't have a big issue with the repurposing given our squad size but I worry that it's going to be a thing with him. We'll probably never have a big enough squad to find out if it's needs must or if he's just mad though
    Or perhaps he knows the longer he leaves it, the more leverage he'll have?
    I think it suits him not to sign yet. If we do manage to go up he'll be asking for a promoted player's wage. If we don't go up he can bail. It doesn't give him much leverage to leave it if he plans on staying regardless though. If we don't get anywhere this season we aren't going to offer him much of a payrise and the owners will be able to point out that Dobson was as much a part of the squad that didn't go up as anyone else if they don't want to spend the money. I reckon they'd look at the way we play, see Fraser, Taylor, McGrandles, Anderson, May and Campbell as permanent players under contract who can fill those three midfield roles between them without us even bringing anyone else in and ask why they'd bother matching what he can get elsewhere. That's based on what we've seen of their investment so far, they may change their ways.
  • If he lasts that long, I can't fully judge him until after January.

    Our overall form has improved, but he's playing a formation that doesn't suit the squad we have, and the defence assembled so far isn't good enough and needs some serious work. 

    If he gets the backing and brings in players he wants in January, then despite the slow start the playoffs are still the aim. If we don't make them, but are close, it's a season of what ifs and you try and build upon that.

    If we finish where we are currently, it's a failure and he'll be on the block I'm sure of it
  • While this shows our form has been good, this stat also means that, despite that good form, we have not got any closer to the top 6.
    Well that's because they were the top 6 for a reason - we started poorly and picked up form, they started well and maintained it. 

    Frankly we'd need to be doing extraordinarily well to be overhauling them yet no matter how good our own form is.
  • I think he has done as well as could be expected in his short time here.. too early to declare him a success or failure yet though.
  • Des Buckingham (who we were supposedly refused permission to speak to) set to be announced Oxford United manager
  • Even though I don't agree with the formation having May where he is, I think Appleton has at least generally got us playing in a somewhat organized fashion. And he does seem to have the understanding of how to influence a game or improve a performance. 

    I would classify a new manager bounce as what we had with JJ - the team absolutely playing out of their skin in terms of effort, but ultimately unsustainable both physically and mentally. This seems different. 
  • Even though I don't agree with the formation having May where he is, I think Appleton has at least generally got us playing in a somewhat organized fashion. And he does seem to have the understanding of how to influence a game or improve a performance. 

    I would classify a new manager bounce as what we had with JJ - the team absolutely playing out of their skin in terms of effort, but ultimately unsustainable both physically and mentally. This seems different. 
    Thing with May is it's working, he's the leagues top scorer, 9 goals in his last 8 games and he's spent a lot of that playing wider or in the hole
  • sam3110 said:
    Even though I don't agree with the formation having May where he is, I think Appleton has at least generally got us playing in a somewhat organized fashion. And he does seem to have the understanding of how to influence a game or improve a performance. 

    I would classify a new manager bounce as what we had with JJ - the team absolutely playing out of their skin in terms of effort, but ultimately unsustainable both physically and mentally. This seems different. 
    Thing with May is it's working, he's the leagues top scorer, 9 goals in his last 8 games and he's spent a lot of that playing wider or in the hole
    Certainly working in an attacking sense. But I'd rather have 3 midfielders to give more solidity and protection to the defence. So I'd have Fraser in the advanced position, and 2 from Dobson, McGrandles, Watson or Anderson, in the 2 slots behind.
  • sam3110 said:
    If he lasts that long, I can't fully judge him until after January.

    Our overall form has improved, but he's playing a formation that doesn't suit the squad we have, and the defence assembled so far isn't good enough and needs some serious work. 

    If he gets the backing and brings in players he wants in January, then despite the slow start the playoffs are still the aim. If we don't make them, but are close, it's a season of what ifs and you try and build upon that.

    If we finish where we are currently, it's a failure and he'll be on the block I'm sure of it
    What formation suits the squad? I don’t think there is one. The issue with 3-5-2 or similar is CBT needs to focus on attacking rather than playing wing back. All our strikers are better in a pair so 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 doesn’t suit any of them.

    To get around it we’re playing May deeper to support both the midfield two and the lone striker. You could call it 4-2-3-1, 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 and for now I think it’s the most balanced formation we can use.

    I don’t understand how he can be criticised for the formation when there isn’t an ideal system for the squad.

    On our defending he can only work with what he’s got. Hector isn’t the experienced consistent CB we need him to be. Watson and Edun haven’t had a decent run of games yet. Asiimwe is still very young. For me Thomas isn’t the standard we need. We can improve but we’ll surely be looking to bring in a defender or two in January as we can only go so far with the defenders we have. 
  • sam3110 said:
    Even though I don't agree with the formation having May where he is, I think Appleton has at least generally got us playing in a somewhat organized fashion. And he does seem to have the understanding of how to influence a game or improve a performance. 

    I would classify a new manager bounce as what we had with JJ - the team absolutely playing out of their skin in terms of effort, but ultimately unsustainable both physically and mentally. This seems different. 
    Thing with May is it's working, he's the leagues top scorer, 9 goals in his last 8 games and he's spent a lot of that playing wider or in the hole
    Certainly working in an attacking sense. But I'd rather have 3 midfielders to give more solidity and protection to the defence. So I'd have Fraser in the advanced position, and 2 from Dobson, McGrandles, Watson or Anderson, in the 2 slots behind.
    I’m pretty sure we are going to be seeing that a lot more now. May will play wide-right like he did from 60mins onwards against Pompey and we will be more of a 4-3-3. Against the weaker sides we might still use May in the 10 
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  • Scoham said:
    sam3110 said:
    If he lasts that long, I can't fully judge him until after January.

    Our overall form has improved, but he's playing a formation that doesn't suit the squad we have, and the defence assembled so far isn't good enough and needs some serious work. 

    If he gets the backing and brings in players he wants in January, then despite the slow start the playoffs are still the aim. If we don't make them, but are close, it's a season of what ifs and you try and build upon that.

    If we finish where we are currently, it's a failure and he'll be on the block I'm sure of it
    What formation suits the squad? I don’t think there is one. The issue with 3-5-2 or similar is CBT needs to focus on attacking rather than playing wing back. All our strikers are better in a pair so 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 doesn’t suit any of them.

    To get around it we’re playing May deeper to support both the midfield two and the lone striker. You could call it 4-2-3-1, 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 and for now I think it’s the most balanced formation we can use.

    I don’t understand how he can be criticised for the formation when there isn’t an ideal system for the squad.

    On our defending he can only work with what he’s got. Hector isn’t the experienced consistent CB we need him to be. Watson and Edun haven’t had a decent run of games yet. Asiimwe is still very young. For me Thomas isn’t the standard we need. We can improve but we’ll surely be looking to bring in a defender or two in January as we can only go so far with the defenders we have. 
    Hey I'm not criticising the formation, I'm just saying it's not the formation the squad was built for.

    Although tbh I don't think Holden knew what formation he wanted either so we've ended up with a weird mish mash of players for 433, 4231 and 352 but no a cohesive squad built on one concept 
  • sam3110 said:
    Scoham said:
    sam3110 said:
    If he lasts that long, I can't fully judge him until after January.

    Our overall form has improved, but he's playing a formation that doesn't suit the squad we have, and the defence assembled so far isn't good enough and needs some serious work. 

    If he gets the backing and brings in players he wants in January, then despite the slow start the playoffs are still the aim. If we don't make them, but are close, it's a season of what ifs and you try and build upon that.

    If we finish where we are currently, it's a failure and he'll be on the block I'm sure of it
    What formation suits the squad? I don’t think there is one. The issue with 3-5-2 or similar is CBT needs to focus on attacking rather than playing wing back. All our strikers are better in a pair so 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 doesn’t suit any of them.

    To get around it we’re playing May deeper to support both the midfield two and the lone striker. You could call it 4-2-3-1, 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 and for now I think it’s the most balanced formation we can use.

    I don’t understand how he can be criticised for the formation when there isn’t an ideal system for the squad.

    On our defending he can only work with what he’s got. Hector isn’t the experienced consistent CB we need him to be. Watson and Edun haven’t had a decent run of games yet. Asiimwe is still very young. For me Thomas isn’t the standard we need. We can improve but we’ll surely be looking to bring in a defender or two in January as we can only go so far with the defenders we have. 
    Hey I'm not criticising the formation, I'm just saying it's not the formation the squad was built for.

    Although tbh I don't think Holden knew what formation he wanted either so we've ended up with a weird mish mash of players for 433, 4231 and 352 but no a cohesive squad built on one concept 
    Holden was 100% planning to play 3-5-2 with May and Leaburn up top. Unfortunately he never got the chance to do it as he never had a game where May had a proper partner. 

    That’s what this squad was built for but even then we don’t have a left footed centre back so would have to rely on Thomas playing there
  • edited November 2023
    Not too bad a start for Mr Appleton all things considered. A few too many draws perhaps.

    One point behind fifth in this longer 12 game form table.

    Also encouraging is the opponent PPG number which is the second highest of any team in the top half during this 12 game period. It’s been a tricky spell of fixtures and we’ve got a respectable haul of points from them.


  • Not too bad a start for Mr Appleton all things considered. A few too many draws perhaps.

    One point behind fifth in this longer 12 game form table.

    Also encouraging is the opponent PPG number which is the second highest of any team in the top half during this 12 game period. It’s been a tricky spell of fixtures and we’ve got a respectable haul of points from them.


    I would say he’s performing as expected really, especially given one of those wins was Pearce managing. The quality of our squad is around the top 6 so that’s the level we should be performing at. He also benefitted from having Chuks fit for half of those games which definitely helped. 

  • I think he is doing ok but wonder how his ppg would look compared to Holden if you removed the games in which Aneke played.
  • edited November 2023
    I think he is doing ok but wonder how his ppg would look compared to Holden if you removed the games in which Aneke played.
    Holden: 0.6 ppg (5 games: Orient, Peterborough, Bristol Rovers, Port Vale, Oxford) (3 home games)

    Appleton: 1.0 ppg (5 games: Lincoln, Bolton, Wigan, Portsmouth, Carlisle) (1 home game)
  • I think he is doing ok but wonder how his ppg would look compared to Holden if you removed the games in which Aneke played.
    Holden: 0.6 ppg (5 games: Orient, Peterborough, Bristol Rovers, Port Vale, Oxford) (3 home games)

    Appleton: 1.0 ppg (5 games: Lincoln, Bolton, Wigan, Portsmouth, Carlisle) (1 home game)
    No wins for Appleton without Aneke at present. 
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