Thierry is contracted for another year. He can’t skip out of that. I’m sure he and his agent feel that when this coming season ends they’ll be plenty of offers on the table to choose from including from us. That’s their risk in not signing what we’ve offered and it’s probably a good decision by them. For us it’s less clear. He walks for nothing and will need replacing at a cost or we can cash in perhaps in January to ease the pain. My guess is he’ll be sold for less than his real worth in January with a loan back until the seasons end. I think he’s a cracking player and will have plenty of suitors.
But do you not remember what we learned from the months of speculation around Dobbos future ?? contracts aren't legally binding
Thierry is contracted for another year. He can’t skip out of that. I’m sure he and his agent feel that when this coming season ends they’ll be plenty of offers on the table to choose from including from us. That’s their risk in not signing what we’ve offered and it’s probably a good decision by them. For us it’s less clear. He walks for nothing and will need replacing at a cost or we can cash in perhaps in January to ease the pain. My guess is he’ll be sold for less than his real worth in January with a loan back until the seasons end. I think he’s a cracking player and will have plenty of suitors.
But do you not remember what we learned form the months of speculation around Dobbos future ?? contracts aren't legally binding
On the contrary, I think everyone agreed that most, if not all, contracts ARE binding (otherwise whats the point), but some posters were implying contracts can't be waived in any case scenario, in particular with Dobos "specially legally binding" contract (like it's any different to any other contract).
To prove a point, Small is now contracted for another year, let's see how long he stays at Charlton, if his head does get turned, once a fee** is paid.
** Fee being a Transfer fee / Termination fee / etc., whatever term you want to call it.
I imagine he won’t sign either, but I guess there is one card in our favour here which might encourage him and that is the fact he would presumably be enforcing himself lower salary in the immediate term if he doesn’t sign a new deal -
ie presumably his current contract is I dunno, say 1500-2000 a week? And if we offer him a 3 year deal that would I imagine be probably double his current one? if he stays with us this season on his current one he’ll be paid less, could get injured, could have a poor season.
The club need to offer him enough cash and flexibility, release clause options or whatever to get him to sign longer, IMO
I imagine he won’t sign either, but I guess there is one card in our favour here which might encourage him and that is the fact he would presumably be enforcing himself lower salary in the immediate term if he doesn’t sign a new deal -
ie presumably his current contract is I dunno, say 1500-2000 a week? And if we offer him a 3 year deal that would I imagine be probably double his current one? if he stays with us this season on his current one he’ll be paid less, could get injured, could have a poor season.
The club need to offer him enough cash and flexibility, release clause options or whatever to get him to sign longer, IMO
That's the play. We picked him up from a very negative spot in his career and signed him to a contract very much in our favour so I'd be surprised if he was earning much. We need to convince him to sign up for 3 years with a pay rise and a reasonable release fee. If he has a good season with us he'll go for the agreed fee and the contract is long enough that we don't need to be held to ransom for less than that. Everybody wins, even his agent.
As I've said before, there's no reason for him to sign a longer contract now, as he doesn't know whether the club really is going places or not. It wouldn't surprise me if he chooses not to sign an extended deal, but it's still entirely possible he might be waiting until the end of the window to see whether our transfer actions match the words of Scott and NJ.
At one extreme we bring in marquee signing after marquee signing, making it obvious we're intending to go up and progress. We're the club ambitious players want to play for.
Alternatively at the other extreme, we bring in a few journeymen free transfers and some underwhelming loans, and another season of mid table mediocrity beckons. In that scenario, Small would be daft to sign an extended deal.
Why would he sign a longer deal, we've had a pretty rubbish season and I suspect he backs himself to play at a higher level than 16th in L1
Because he's stuck with us for another year either way. He can sign a longer deal with get-outs in place. If he does well he'll go, if not his future is secure. If he doesn't sign a new deal he's got another year with us on less money than if he signed a new one. He's also not ever had a consistent season where he hasn't gone to pieces. If he reverts to type this season then we'll let his contract run out and he'll be on the scrapheap again, unlike if he had a longer deal in place.
If he signs an improved contract now with a clause that if anyone comes in next summer with a bid of, whatever he agrees to, they must give him the chance to go if he wants to. Win, win
Just my opinion but I think/fear he has done enough to impress other clubs and will be looking to be sold for a nominal fee having not been with us long.
don’t reckon he’ll sign the current offer that’s been made
On the positive front we can potentially get him for another year - On the negative front we could lose him this summer, if we decide to cash in.
Regardless this feels the type of signing that we need to make more.
If we can get something like 500k for him, then we've made nearly 500k (when you take out wages / signing on fees, if there was one) which can go back into the squad (we hope)
We've missed out on too many of these potential players that have been released from Premier League level clubs for whatever reason, and they've climbed back up the Football League, beyond us... Signing the likes of Ben Watson etc. can be great for experience, but you dont get the sell on from those individuals, which is a bit of a waste with FFP.
I'm not about to apportion blame if it does transpire that Thierry won't sign a long-term deal after various negotiations. We signed him as a bit of a surprise - the year's option was in case it didn't work out as much as if it did - and it turns out he's perhaps somewhere on the way to getting back to the player he was touted to be (a long way off yet, mind).
Now that he's made a good impression and has potential interest, he has leverage. We had leverage in the form of an extension, which we've triggered. If he leaves now, then we can make relatively decent money off a short term investment in a player that was in danger of drifting along, and he might have a chance at a higher standard. If we sign him to a longer-term deal - great, we have a player who we gambled on and it's paid off (and if push came to shove, who we'd sell for a significant chunk).
I think Small's agent is in his ear - which he would be, as agents are generally pretty self-interested. The paper talk is just that, too, I'm sure, in terms of the Spurs link etc. In any case, I'm not about to get myself into too much of a twist over a player who's played 14 games for us just yet, even if he's shown some promise.
On the positive front we can potentially get him for another year - On the negative front we could lose him this summer, if we decide to cash in.
Regardless this feels the type of signing that we need to make more.
If we can get something like 500k for him, then we've made nearly 500k (when you take out wages / signing on fees, if there was one) which can go back into the squad (we hope)
We've missed out on too many of these potential players that have been released from Premier League level clubs for whatever reason, and they've climbed back up the Football League, beyond us... Signing the likes of Ben Watson etc. can be great for experience, but you dont get the sell on from those individuals, which is a bit of a waste with FFP.
From conversations ive had with people who are more ITK than myself 300k-400k was the max we can expect for him if he goes this window.
On the positive front we can potentially get him for another year - On the negative front we could lose him this summer, if we decide to cash in.
Regardless this feels the type of signing that we need to make more.
If we can get something like 500k for him, then we've made nearly 500k (when you take out wages / signing on fees, if there was one) which can go back into the squad (we hope)
We've missed out on too many of these potential players that have been released from Premier League level clubs for whatever reason, and they've climbed back up the Football League, beyond us... Signing the likes of Ben Watson etc. can be great for experience, but you dont get the sell on from those individuals, which is a bit of a waste with FFP.
Not just Premier League players either.
Al-Hamadi joined Wimbledon for a small fee (if that)m in January 2023. A year later they sold him to Ipswich for a big fee.
On the positive front we can potentially get him for another year - On the negative front we could lose him this summer, if we decide to cash in.
Regardless this feels the type of signing that we need to make more.
If we can get something like 500k for him, then we've made nearly 500k (when you take out wages / signing on fees, if there was one) which can go back into the squad (we hope)
We've missed out on too many of these potential players that have been released from Premier League level clubs for whatever reason, and they've climbed back up the Football League, beyond us... Signing the likes of Ben Watson etc. can be great for experience, but you dont get the sell on from those individuals, which is a bit of a waste with FFP.
From conversations ive had with people who are more ITK than myself 300k-400k was the max we can expect for him if he goes this window.
If we can’t get at least the 800-1200k that Spurs were quoted as offering then that would be very disappointing.
Either he stays or he goes. Him staying would be great but not going to lose sleep over it if he’s that sort of player, just make sure the club gets as much out of it as they can.
On the positive front we can potentially get him for another year - On the negative front we could lose him this summer, if we decide to cash in.
Regardless this feels the type of signing that we need to make more.
If we can get something like 500k for him, then we've made nearly 500k (when you take out wages / signing on fees, if there was one) which can go back into the squad (we hope)
We've missed out on too many of these potential players that have been released from Premier League level clubs for whatever reason, and they've climbed back up the Football League, beyond us... Signing the likes of Ben Watson etc. can be great for experience, but you dont get the sell on from those individuals, which is a bit of a waste with FFP.
From conversations ive had with people who are more ITK than myself 300k-400k was the max we can expect for him if he goes this window.
If we can’t get at least the 800-1200k that Spurs were quoted as offering then that would be very disappointing.
Either he stays or he goes. Him staying would be great but not going to lose sleep over it if he’s that sort of player, just make sure the club gets as much out of it as they can.
So if they didn't meet the 1.2m Southampton asked for, does that mean we did? I've just seen the football insider story. I'm never convinced by rumored transfer fees, but I can't imagine us paying that much. I honestly couldn't imagine someone paying that much for him now either, even if I think he has a bright future.
On the positive front we can potentially get him for another year - On the negative front we could lose him this summer, if we decide to cash in.
Regardless this feels the type of signing that we need to make more.
If we can get something like 500k for him, then we've made nearly 500k (when you take out wages / signing on fees, if there was one) which can go back into the squad (we hope)
We've missed out on too many of these potential players that have been released from Premier League level clubs for whatever reason, and they've climbed back up the Football League, beyond us... Signing the likes of Ben Watson etc. can be great for experience, but you dont get the sell on from those individuals, which is a bit of a waste with FFP.
From conversations ive had with people who are more ITK than myself 300k-400k was the max we can expect for him if he goes this window.
If we can’t get at least the 800-1200k that Spurs were quoted as offering then that would be very disappointing.
Either he stays or he goes. Him staying would be great but not going to lose sleep over it if he’s that sort of player, just make sure the club gets as much out of it as they can.
So if they didn't meet the 1.2m Southampton asked for, does that mean we did? I've just seen the football insider story. I'm never convinced by rumored transfer fees, but I can't imagine us paying that much. I honestly couldn't imagine someone paying that much for him now either, even if I think he has a bright future.
On the positive front we can potentially get him for another year - On the negative front we could lose him this summer, if we decide to cash in.
Regardless this feels the type of signing that we need to make more.
If we can get something like 500k for him, then we've made nearly 500k (when you take out wages / signing on fees, if there was one) which can go back into the squad (we hope)
We've missed out on too many of these potential players that have been released from Premier League level clubs for whatever reason, and they've climbed back up the Football League, beyond us... Signing the likes of Ben Watson etc. can be great for experience, but you dont get the sell on from those individuals, which is a bit of a waste with FFP.
From conversations ive had with people who are more ITK than myself 300k-400k was the max we can expect for him if he goes this window.
If we can’t get at least the 800-1200k that Spurs were quoted as offering then that would be very disappointing.
Either he stays or he goes. Him staying would be great but not going to lose sleep over it if he’s that sort of player, just make sure the club gets as much out of it as they can.
So if they didn't meet the 1.2m Southampton asked for, does that mean we did? I've just seen the football insider story. I'm never convinced by rumored transfer fees, but I can't imagine us paying that much. I honestly couldn't imagine someone paying that much for him now either, even if I think he has a bright future.
Southampton released him so we got him for free.
That's what I thought, I'm confused by the chronology of it all though--they wanted 1.2m for him didn't get it, and released him all within the same window? Or was this within different windows?
On the positive front we can potentially get him for another year - On the negative front we could lose him this summer, if we decide to cash in.
Regardless this feels the type of signing that we need to make more.
If we can get something like 500k for him, then we've made nearly 500k (when you take out wages / signing on fees, if there was one) which can go back into the squad (we hope)
We've missed out on too many of these potential players that have been released from Premier League level clubs for whatever reason, and they've climbed back up the Football League, beyond us... Signing the likes of Ben Watson etc. can be great for experience, but you dont get the sell on from those individuals, which is a bit of a waste with FFP.
From conversations ive had with people who are more ITK than myself 300k-400k was the max we can expect for him if he goes this window.
If we can’t get at least the 800-1200k that Spurs were quoted as offering then that would be very disappointing.
Either he stays or he goes. Him staying would be great but not going to lose sleep over it if he’s that sort of player, just make sure the club gets as much out of it as they can.
So if they didn't meet the 1.2m Southampton asked for, does that mean we did? I've just seen the football insider story. I'm never convinced by rumored transfer fees, but I can't imagine us paying that much. I honestly couldn't imagine someone paying that much for him now either, even if I think he has a bright future.
Southampton released him so we got him for free.
That's what I thought, I'm confused by the chronology of it all though--they wanted 1.2m for him didn't get it, and released him all within the same window? Or was this within different windows?
Think the rumoured 1.2m was last summer. Then released six months later and we were the only takers. Seems a weird up and down all within the space of twelve months.
Or the 1.2m was all a figment of his agent’s imagination in the first place.
On the positive front we can potentially get him for another year - On the negative front we could lose him this summer, if we decide to cash in.
Regardless this feels the type of signing that we need to make more.
If we can get something like 500k for him, then we've made nearly 500k (when you take out wages / signing on fees, if there was one) which can go back into the squad (we hope)
We've missed out on too many of these potential players that have been released from Premier League level clubs for whatever reason, and they've climbed back up the Football League, beyond us... Signing the likes of Ben Watson etc. can be great for experience, but you dont get the sell on from those individuals, which is a bit of a waste with FFP.
From conversations ive had with people who are more ITK than myself 300k-400k was the max we can expect for him if he goes this window.
If we can’t get at least the 800-1200k that Spurs were quoted as offering then that would be very disappointing.
Either he stays or he goes. Him staying would be great but not going to lose sleep over it if he’s that sort of player, just make sure the club gets as much out of it as they can.
So if they didn't meet the 1.2m Southampton asked for, does that mean we did? I've just seen the football insider story. I'm never convinced by rumored transfer fees, but I can't imagine us paying that much. I honestly couldn't imagine someone paying that much for him now either, even if I think he has a bright future.
Southampton released him so we got him for free.
That's what I thought, I'm confused by the chronology of it all though--they wanted 1.2m for him didn't get it, and released him all within the same window? Or was this within different windows?
Think the rumoured 1.2m was last summer. Then released six months later and we were the only takers. Seems a weird up and down all within the space of twelve months.
Or the 1.2m was all a figment of his agent’s imagination in the first place.
Was January 23, he ended up moving to St Mirren shortly after
There was a theory floated previously that Jones knew we were desperate for a wingback, got his black book out and the agent was able to then convince Southampton to terminate the contract. That's why within hours of his release he had signed with us following unsuccessful loans in Scotland and with Port Vale and seemingly stagnating in Southampton's U23s.
Don't know if he has had the same agents all the time but they don't seem to mind moving him around. Hoping NJ can do his best to convince Small to be a possibly key part of our new squad and hopefully our bright future!
There was a theory floated previously that Jones knew we were desperate for a wingback, got his black book out and got the agent to convince Southampton to terminate the contract. That's why within hours of his release he had signed with us following unsuccessful loans in Scotland and with Port Vale and seemingly stagnating in Southampton's U23s.
Small and his agent wouldn't have allowed his Soton contract to be terminated without the Charlton deal being in place.
Saints got an unwanted flop off their books, Charlton found a diamond in the rough on the cheap.
If Spurs had offered any sort of deal we'd have never had a sniff.
Comments
To prove a point, Small is now contracted for another year, let's see how long he stays at Charlton, if his head does get turned, once a fee** is paid.
** Fee being a Transfer fee / Termination fee / etc., whatever term you want to call it.
ie presumably his current contract is I dunno, say 1500-2000 a week? And if we offer him a 3 year deal that would I imagine be probably double his current one? if he stays with us this season on his current one he’ll be paid less, could get injured, could have a poor season.
At one extreme we bring in marquee signing after marquee signing, making it obvious we're intending to go up and progress. We're the club ambitious players want to play for.
Alternatively at the other extreme, we bring in a few journeymen free transfers and some underwhelming loans, and another season of mid table mediocrity beckons. In that scenario, Small would be daft to sign an extended deal.
don’t reckon he’ll sign the current offer that’s been made
Regardless this feels the type of signing that we need to make more.
If we can get something like 500k for him, then we've made nearly 500k (when you take out wages / signing on fees, if there was one) which can go back into the squad (we hope)
We've missed out on too many of these potential players that have been released from Premier League level clubs for whatever reason, and they've climbed back up the Football League, beyond us... Signing the likes of Ben Watson etc. can be great for experience, but you dont get the sell on from those individuals, which is a bit of a waste with FFP.
https://www.charltonafc.com/news/charlton-trigger-thierry-smalls-extension-clause
Now that he's made a good impression and has potential interest, he has leverage. We had leverage in the form of an extension, which we've triggered. If he leaves now, then we can make relatively decent money off a short term investment in a player that was in danger of drifting along, and he might have a chance at a higher standard. If we sign him to a longer-term deal - great, we have a player who we gambled on and it's paid off (and if push came to shove, who we'd sell for a significant chunk).
I think Small's agent is in his ear - which he would be, as agents are generally pretty self-interested. The paper talk is just that, too, I'm sure, in terms of the Spurs link etc. In any case, I'm not about to get myself into too much of a twist over a player who's played 14 games for us just yet, even if he's shown some promise.
Al-Hamadi joined Wimbledon for a small fee (if that)m in January 2023. A year later they sold him to Ipswich for a big fee.
Either he stays or he goes. Him staying would be great but not going to lose sleep over it if he’s that sort of player, just make sure the club gets as much out of it as they can.
The click bait side misleadingly wrote the article to make it read like it was recent.
Small flopped in Scotland and at Port Vale and Southampton were probably happy to get him off their books so relased him for nothing.
Or the 1.2m was all a figment of his agent’s imagination in the first place.
Don't know if he has had the same agents all the time but they don't seem to mind moving him around. Hoping NJ can do his best to convince Small to be a possibly key part of our new squad and hopefully our bright future!
Saints got an unwanted flop off their books, Charlton found a diamond in the rough on the cheap.
If Spurs had offered any sort of deal we'd have never had a sniff.