Daily Mail readers reaction to rumours of a black James Bond
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Only if she is black.soapboxsam said:why can't we have a female Bond in 2015 ?
Brooke Bond. (as long as she's not an old bag)
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Apologies in that case, I got it wrong.To_Be_Franck said:
I was quoting Dave.se9addick said:
There was a comment about Jewish people and cashpoints on the Dave Whelan thread which may have contributed to his suspicions to be fair.To_Be_Franck said:
Oooh we have a smarty pants.Algarveaddick said:
Care to enlighten me where I said your posts were racist?To_Be_Franck said:
Care to enlighten me as to which posts of mine you find to be racist?Algarveaddick said:
No, but your subsequent posts make me wonder...To_Be_Franck said:A black/coloured/ethnic/minority (delete as you see appropriate) James Bond wouldn't feel right to me. Does that make me racist?
Would you care to enlighten me as to which of my subsequent posts made you wonder whether I am racist.
Perhaps, Algarve, you should redirect your sense of humour failure comment to ol' SE9 here1 -
He wrote 14 Bond novels, and there are 23 films... so yes. Goldfinger's Bond raped a a lesbian into heterosexuality cos, as Fleming wrote, "all women want to be raped," so I don't really have a problem with ignoring elements of his writing.WayneK said:
So we ignore the writing of Ian Fleming?JiMMy 85 said:
If you were to list his defining traits that were essential to the character being in a narratively and stylistically successful movie, skin colour would be pretty low down the list if not at the bottom. The tuxedo represents status, as does the voice, the car etc. so if you were to dress a white man in a potato sack driving a mini, he wouldn't be much of a Bond. But to change the colour of his skin? As long as he represents a decadent posh womanising git, well skin colour is irrelevant, is it not?LoonyBin said:Whilst I never fail to find it amusing when Daily Mail readers start foaming at the mouth and falling over backwards in shock-horror at the mere mention of anything progressive, I must confess I would find it odd to see a black James Bond.
This doesn't make me racist, it simply means that I have a certain preconceived image of who "Bond" is. He's a white, misogynist, gambling addicted alcoholic with a lucky streak a mile wide inasmuch as everybody who has ever tried to kill him has either been a completely rotten shot or has overcomplicated the process to such a degree that the plan was doomed to failure from conception. OK... so much for stereotypes.
I can imagine a black Prime Minister, or even a black Doctor Who. Both of those would work for me. But Bond has become more than a role. He is a very specific fantasy character whose character only 'works' within a very narrow corridor of variation. Being black would be too far outside of that margin to maintain credibility.... even for a fantasy figure.
Idris Elba is a fine actor and would no doubt do a sterling job, but it simply wouldn't 'work'.
In my opinion.7 -
A few Daily Mail readers might still think that way though...JiMMy 85 said:
He wrote 14 Bond novels, and there are 23 films... so yes. Goldfinger's Bond raped a a lesbian into heterosexuality cos, as Fleming wrote, "all women want to be raped," so I don't really have a problem with ignoring elements of his writing.WayneK said:
So we ignore the writing of Ian Fleming?JiMMy 85 said:
If you were to list his defining traits that were essential to the character being in a narratively and stylistically successful movie, skin colour would be pretty low down the list if not at the bottom. The tuxedo represents status, as does the voice, the car etc. so if you were to dress a white man in a potato sack driving a mini, he wouldn't be much of a Bond. But to change the colour of his skin? As long as he represents a decadent posh womanising git, well skin colour is irrelevant, is it not?LoonyBin said:Whilst I never fail to find it amusing when Daily Mail readers start foaming at the mouth and falling over backwards in shock-horror at the mere mention of anything progressive, I must confess I would find it odd to see a black James Bond.
This doesn't make me racist, it simply means that I have a certain preconceived image of who "Bond" is. He's a white, misogynist, gambling addicted alcoholic with a lucky streak a mile wide inasmuch as everybody who has ever tried to kill him has either been a completely rotten shot or has overcomplicated the process to such a degree that the plan was doomed to failure from conception. OK... so much for stereotypes.
I can imagine a black Prime Minister, or even a black Doctor Who. Both of those would work for me. But Bond has become more than a role. He is a very specific fantasy character whose character only 'works' within a very narrow corridor of variation. Being black would be too far outside of that margin to maintain credibility.... even for a fantasy figure.
Idris Elba is a fine actor and would no doubt do a sterling job, but it simply wouldn't 'work'.
In my opinion.1 -
Reading some of this and the Katrein thread, you really do begin to realise that we have a fair few dinosaur's amongst the CL Members .5
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So they have a problem with a non-white Bond because of continuity, yet Bond has gone from fighting Soviets to modern day terrorists and doesn't appear to have aged 60 years in the process? OK.2
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I think it would be racist if the next bond is white1
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Sure you do...cafcnick1992 said:I think it would be racist if the next bond is white
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Compromise: James Bond is white but every other character and all the extras are black.1
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Why are the Asians always neglected? Bond should be South Korean1
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One of the only villains played by an Asian was replaced by a white guy 20 minutes into Die Another Day, I didn't hear any Daily Mail readers whinging back then.cafcnick1992 said:Why are the Asians always neglected? Bond should be South Korean
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Some people need to get a grip on reality. This is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER. As a huge Bond fan growing up, I knew that Fleming only chose to make Bond part Scottish after writing the majority of his novels to honour Sean Connery after being impressed with his portrayal of the character and reversing his opinion on whether he'd make a good Bond. As a black fan I'd actually rather have a white Bond but it's just a film and I'm sure the next one will be of the more traditional mould. And @RaplhMilne I am astonished. You clearly haven't got a clue but I don't know what else to expect from a man whose username looks like a typo!2
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Out of interest, why would you rather have a white Bond ?Addick in SW16 said:Some people need to get a grip on reality. This is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER. As a huge Bond fan growing up, I knew that Fleming only chose to make Bond part Scottish after writing the majority of his novels to honour Sean Connery after being impressed with his portrayal of the character and reversing his opinion on whether he'd make a good Bond. As a black fan I'd actually rather have a white Bond but it's just a film and I'm sure the next one will be of the more traditional mould. And @RaplhMilne I am astonished. You clearly haven't got a clue but I don't know what else to expect from a man whose username looks like a typo!
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I like Idris Elba but I don't think he would make a great James Bond. He's too tall for a start, I think Daniel Craig has cracked it even if his hair is too fair.
No problem at all with a black man playing Bond but they need to be lean and bad ass. Not bloody massive!
My only stipulation for whatever actor plays 007 is they can't be a ginger ;-)0 -
Because he is not burdened by an indoctrinated misplaced "white mans guilt" or any urge to "redress some pointless balance" through what is just a piece of well loved fiction written around the main character, who happens to be white?se9addick said:
Out of interest, why would you rather have a white Bond ?Addick in SW16 said:Some people need to get a grip on reality. This is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER. As a huge Bond fan growing up, I knew that Fleming only chose to make Bond part Scottish after writing the majority of his novels to honour Sean Connery after being impressed with his portrayal of the character and reversing his opinion on whether he'd make a good Bond. As a black fan I'd actually rather have a white Bond but it's just a film and I'm sure the next one will be of the more traditional mould. And @RaplhMilne I am astonished. You clearly haven't got a clue but I don't know what else to expect from a man whose username looks like a typo!
Maybe.1 -
I'll accept a black Bond if the next Shaft is white.1
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I'm just a bit like that with tradition. Didn't really want female M (Judi Dench was great though), don't want Red, Red, Robin to stop being played and don't like the half white half red home shirt. It is silly. I think I would prefer him to be white, but am not actually too bothered.se9addick said:
Out of interest, why would you rather have a white Bond ?Addick in SW16 said:Some people need to get a grip on reality. This is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER. As a huge Bond fan growing up, I knew that Fleming only chose to make Bond part Scottish after writing the majority of his novels to honour Sean Connery after being impressed with his portrayal of the character and reversing his opinion on whether he'd make a good Bond. As a black fan I'd actually rather have a white Bond but it's just a film and I'm sure the next one will be of the more traditional mould. And @RaplhMilne I am astonished. You clearly haven't got a clue but I don't know what else to expect from a man whose username looks like a typo!
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Trouble is having a male / female 'M' is more understanding as its simply a rank... If it was called 007 and that person's name changed per film etc... then I wouldnt have an issue with there being a Black Bond.
We live in a world now where tradition does seem to be trodden all over so would be nice to see something left alone regardless if its real or fictional0 -
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You realise that that "joke" was in the original daily mail comments?WayneK said:I'll accept a black Bond if the next Shaft is white.
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No I didn't but why is it a joke? I expect you will find that most black people could not give a fig what colour Bond is.0
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Found Poem said:
Movies are vehicles for liberal propaganda,
Wake up people and smell the coffee,
There is nothing left sacred (any more),
In this lefty liberal wishy-washy world.
Why does James Bond have to change colour?
Why not a white man playing Nelson Mandela?
This is what happens when a woman's in charge,
What next? Ray Winstone playing John Shaft?
Fleming wrote James Bond as half-Scottish, half-Swiss,
This world is so PC it makes me sick.0 -
You seem to be under the misapprehension that casting Idris Elba would be specifically done to please black people, much like Soapy's apparent misguided belief that casting Elba would be to 'appease white man guilt'.WayneK said:No I didn't but why is it a joke? I expect you will find that most black people could not give a fig what colour Bond is.
Elba is linked with the role cos he is a smooth bloke and many people can envisage him playing the character of a smooth bloke. It's pretty much that simple. The question then arises around whether or not institutionally racist people can handle the idea of a black guy as Bond. The comments on the Daily Mail site, and a little on here, imply that there's enough stupidity to make it an issue.
Shaft was a character from a specific time, an era of blaxploitation filmmaking, where the colour of his skin was very, very relevant to the plot of the movie. There's a handful of characters I can think of who do have to be of specific ethnicity. Shaft is one, Bond is not IMO, for reasons stated earlier in this thread. The comparison you've made is simplistic. At best.6 -
That's just the thing though, James Bond - as far as I'm aware - isn't white. The actors that have played him this far just happen to be white. I see no difference in Bond being played by a black man, surely the physical metamorphosis is just as extreme when it shifted from Brosnan to Craig ?soapy_jones said:
Because he is not burdened by an indoctrinated misplaced "white mans guilt" or any urge to "redress some pointless balance" through what is just a piece of well loved fiction written around the main character, who happens to be white?se9addick said:
Out of interest, why would you rather have a white Bond ?Addick in SW16 said:Some people need to get a grip on reality. This is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER. As a huge Bond fan growing up, I knew that Fleming only chose to make Bond part Scottish after writing the majority of his novels to honour Sean Connery after being impressed with his portrayal of the character and reversing his opinion on whether he'd make a good Bond. As a black fan I'd actually rather have a white Bond but it's just a film and I'm sure the next one will be of the more traditional mould. And @RaplhMilne I am astonished. You clearly haven't got a clue but I don't know what else to expect from a man whose username looks like a typo!
Maybe.
Oh, and no "white mans guilt" here mate.1 -
Who has enough invested in the bond franchise to give this much of a shit? Idris Elba is a decent British actor who can probably play out an action film quite well. Sometimes I recon people are genuinely looking for reasons to get offended either for themselves or on behalf of other people.3 -
Carter has raised the biggest problem here, Idris Elba is bloody huge.0
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This.Addicted said:
Who has enough invested in the bond franchise to give this much of a shit? Idris Elba is a decent British actor who can probably play out an action film quite well. Sometimes I recon people are genuinely looking for reasons to get offended either for themselves or on behalf of other people.
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I don't find your posts racist.To_Be_Franck said:
Care to enlighten me as to which posts of mine you find to be racist?Algarveaddick said:
No, but your subsequent posts make me wonder...To_Be_Franck said:A black/coloured/ethnic/minority (delete as you see appropriate) James Bond wouldn't feel right to me. Does that make me racist?
But i do find them to be deliberately provocative, both under this user name and the previous one that we recently banned. You also seem to make little effort to fit into this community and engage respectfully with other users, instead using it as a way to get your friction / argumentative kicks. You are not alone (there are two others on this thread that have the same approach).
The moderators don't want to exclude anyone and are always happy to give posters a 2nd chance, but please give a think to your usage of this forum. If you are not prepared to make a bit more effort in softening your engagement approach, then its probably not the forum for you.
thanks.2 -
I disagree.AFKABartram said:
I don't find your posts racist.To_Be_Franck said:
Care to enlighten me as to which posts of mine you find to be racist?Algarveaddick said:
No, but your subsequent posts make me wonder...To_Be_Franck said:A black/coloured/ethnic/minority (delete as you see appropriate) James Bond wouldn't feel right to me. Does that make me racist?
But i do find them to be deliberately provocative, both under this user name and the previous one that we recently banned. You also seem to make little effort to fit into this community and engage respectfully with other users, instead using it as a way to get your friction / argumentative kicks. You are not alone (there are two others on this thread that have the same approach).
We are always happy to give posters a 2nd chance, but please give a think to your usage of this forum. If you are not prepared to make a bit more effort in softening your engagement approach, then its probably not the forum for you.
thanks.
Just because I hold a different view to many on here, whether it be Fox's footballing ability, the ethnic background of a fictional character or the model of RD...this doesn't make the posts deliberately provocative. I will always back up an argument with reasoning.
Some of my 'funny' comments, may not be to everyone's taste ( I notice that @soapboxsam is still allowed to post on the jokes thread) but none are outrageous. My post on the Dave Wheelan thread received 4 flags, and 7 LoLs ( bloody hell, I sound like @Paulie8290 ) which suggests to me that more people saw the 'joke' than got their knickers in a twist.
Please do PM me where you think I have been deliberately provocative, and I will happily apologise if needed.
With regards not making effort to fit in, being accused of being a racist is hardly a 'warm welcome' is it......
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Blimey who put some brains in Nathan???0
