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Which of our players is really good enough?

Davo55
Davo55 Posts: 7,849
in General Charlton
Let's be brutally honest about it, we just aren't good enough for the Championship. Even if we manage to stay up, the scratching out of points here and there with some of the worst football in living memory isn't good enough.

So, putting aside as much as possible the dire performances last night, who really IS good enough? I'm not talking about winning this league, I'm talking about for a team that is competitive, say top half maybe even challenging for the play offs.

In my view, we have some players who are much better than their current form suggests. I think they are getting dragged down by others, by the coaching and by the farcical ownership/management. We have others who are just not good enough - not enough technical ability, not enough athleticism, not enough guts, not strong enough mentally.

In my view:

Stephen Henderson YES
Neil Etheridge NO
Marko Dmitrovic NO
Nick Pope NOT YET

Chris Solly YES
Joe Gomez YES (or soon will be)
Loïc Nego NO
André Bikey NO
Tal Ben Haim YES
Oguchi Onyewu NO
Rhoys Wiggins YES
Morgan Fox NO
Lawrie Wilson NO

Johann Berg Gudmundsson YES
Johnnie Jackson YES (as impact sub only these days, sadly)
Yoni Buyens NO
Miloš Veljković - TOO SOON
Christophe Lepoint TOO SOON
Frédéric Bulot NO
Jordan Cousins YES (but needs to improve)
Callum Harriott NO
Franck Moussa NO
Igor Vetokele YES
Simon Church NO
Tony Watt YES
Reza Ghoochannejhad NO
Piotr Parzyszek NO
Joe Pigott NO
George Tucudean NO

Some may disagree here and there, but I would be surprised if even the most optimistic amongst us would think it much better than that. Not pleasant reading is it?

Can we really see Ratbag Roland wanting to pay the necessary transfer fees or wages to bring the standard up? Can we see Luzon able to mould and motivate a team to compete effectively? Can we see good players wanting to come and join us under the current regime? Can we see ourselves hanging on to our better players if they get an offer to move on or their contract expires? Can you see the long term supporters coming back, or younger ones joining the cause?

No, me neither.

Something has to change.

Comments

  • twiggyaddick
    twiggyaddick Posts: 1,566
    Davo55 said:

    Let's be brutally honest about it, we just aren't good enough for the Championship. Even if we manage to stay up, the scratching out of points here and there with some of the worst football in living memory isn't good enough.

    So, putting aside as much as possible the dire performances last night, who really IS good enough? I'm not talking about winning this league, I'm talking about for a team that is competitive, say top half maybe even challenging for the play offs.

    In my view, we have some players who are much better than their current form suggests. I think they are getting dragged down by others, by the coaching and by the farcical ownership/management. We have others who are just not good enough - not enough technical ability, not enough athleticism, not enough guts, not strong enough mentally.

    In my view:

    Stephen Henderson YES
    Neil Etheridge NO
    Marko Dmitrovic NO
    Nick Pope NOT YET

    Chris Solly YES
    Joe Gomez YES (or soon will be)
    Loïc Nego NO
    André Bikey NO
    Tal Ben Haim YES
    Oguchi Onyewu NO
    Rhoys Wiggins YES
    Morgan Fox NO
    Lawrie Wilson NO

    Johann Berg Gudmundsson YES
    Johnnie Jackson YES (as impact sub only these days, sadly)
    Yoni Buyens NO
    Miloš Veljković - TOO SOON
    Christophe Lepoint TOO SOON
    Frédéric Bulot NO
    Jordan Cousins YES (but needs to improve)
    Callum Harriott NO
    Franck Moussa NO
    Igor Vetokele YES
    Simon Church NO
    Tony Watt YES
    Reza Ghoochannejhad NO
    Piotr Parzyszek NO
    Joe Pigott NO
    George Tucudean NO

    Some may disagree here and there, but I would be surprised if even the most optimistic amongst us would think it much better than that. Not pleasant reading is it?

    Can we really see Ratbag Roland wanting to pay the necessary transfer fees or wages to bring the standard up? Can we see Luzon able to mould and motivate a team to compete effectively? Can we see good players wanting to come and join us under the current regime? Can we see ourselves hanging on to our better players if they get an offer to move on or their contract expires? Can you see the long term supporters coming back, or younger ones joining the cause?

    No, me neither.

    Something has to change.

    Yep, the ownership! Great post!
  • wmcf123
    wmcf123 Posts: 5,838
    Buyens is good enough, although he seems to have gone off the boil since the new coach/puppet came in
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,327
    While I think you are being overly harsh on a few players who have already proved that they can do it at this level and a few new/young players such as Dmitrovic and Pigott I think you are correct.

    This network idea would be fine IF IF IF it produced players of a high enough quality but it has consistently failed to do this because IMHO

    1. The budget is too small

    2. Those selecting the players don't know what they are doing and/or do not have the best interests and needs of Charlton Athletic FC as a priority
  • cafctom
    cafctom Posts: 11,375
    I think Bikey and Onyewu are good enough, as well as Buyens and Wilson. What is not good enough for the Championship is the clown like management and ownership over them.
  • Addicted
    Addicted Posts: 2,804
    Ignoring attitutde at the moment the below are good enough to be starters in a champ team that stays up. The ones not in bold are not at the moment because they could not give a shit.

    Stephen Henderson
    Chris Solly
    Joe Gomez
    André Bikey
    Tal Ben Haim
    Yoni Buyens
    Johann Berg Gudmundsson
    Jordan Cousins
    Igor Vetokele
    Tony Watt
  • roseandcrown
    roseandcrown Posts: 7,591
    For me its not just about being good enough in the champ its about character and RD and Peeters have stripped that from the squad and that is the Major problem.
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,516
    Marko Dmitrovic should also be a 'not yet'. He's looked better than Pope in games played for us and is also young.

    Buyens is a yes if he gives more than 20%.

    Jackson is a no (as a starter).

    Harriott last season (and the end of the season before) was a yes, this season he seems to have gone backwards due to being shoved up front.

    Think Moussa still can offer something if he comes back from injury.

    Motivated Wilson can do a job as well as shown last season.
  • Red one
    Red one Posts: 92
    Let's be brutally honest about it, we just aren't good enough for the Championship. Even if we manage to stay up, the scratching out of points here and there with some of the worst football in living memory isn't good enough.

    So, putting aside as much as possible the dire performances last night, who really IS good enough? I'm not talking about winning this league, I'm talking about for a team that is competitive, say top half maybe even challenging for the play offs.

    In my view, we have some players who are much better than their current form suggests. I think they are getting dragged down by others, by the coaching and by the farcical ownership/management. We have others who are just not good enough - not enough technical ability, not enough athleticism, not enough guts, not strong enough mentally.

    In my view:

    Stephen Henderson YES
    Neil Etheridge NO
    Marko Dmitrovic NO
    Nick Pope NOT YET

    Chris Solly YES
    Joe Gomez YES (or soon will be)
    Loïc Nego NO
    André Bikey NO
    Tal Ben Haim YES
    Oguchi Onyewu NO
    Rhoys Wiggins YES
    Morgan Fox NO
    Lawrie Wilson NO

    Johann Berg Gudmundsson YES
    Johnnie Jackson YES (as impact sub only these days, sadly)
    Yoni Buyens NO
    Miloš Veljković - TOO SOON
    Christophe Lepoint TOO SOON
    Frédéric Bulot NO
    Jordan Cousins YES (but needs to improve)
    Callum Harriott NO
    Franck Moussa NO
    Igor Vetokele YES
    Simon Church NO
    Tony Watt YES
    Reza Ghoochannejhad NO
    Piotr Parzyszek NO
    Joe Pigott NO
    George Tucudean NO

    Spot on but I would also add wiggins to the no list just not the player he was.
  • Ledge
    Ledge Posts: 7,179
    Buyens is a good player for a top 4/5 team playing with confidence : yesterday showed he's not up to the fight. Same for bulot same for bikey

    Jackson iis good for 50 mins but has to have cousins alongside to do the running . Buyens and Jackson in Central just don't cut it in championship against younger more dYnamic box to box midfielders.
  • MrLargo
    MrLargo Posts: 8,000
    SELR_addicks said:

    Marko Dmitrovic should also be a 'not yet'. He's looked better than Pope in games played for us and is also young.

    Specifically looking at the keeper situation, after Henderson got injured we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Nick Pope. When Pope looked like he was struggling, we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Neil Etheridge. When Etheridge let in 5 against Watford, we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Dmitrovic.

    We haven't won a single game since Henderson's last appearance, and the procession of young keepers since then just highlights how clueless the people running this club are. And I doubt we'll ever get a proper opportunity to assess whether any of those keepers are actually any good, because they'll continue to be chopped and changed and passed around rather than properly nurtured.

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  • Numbers
    Numbers Posts: 834
    I think you are not far off, and it helps me this morning. As I keep on chanting in my head 'Tony Watt Watt Watt....he's all we've got got got'
  • Ledge
    Ledge Posts: 7,179
    MrLargo said:

    SELR_addicks said:

    Marko Dmitrovic should also be a 'not yet'. He's looked better than Pope in games played for us and is also young.

    Specifically looking at the keeper situation, after Henderson got injured we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Nick Pope. When Pope looked like he was struggling, we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Neil Etheridge. When Etheridge let in 5 against Watford, we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Dmitrovic.

    We haven't won a single game since Henderson's last appearance, and the procession of young keepers since then just highlights how clueless the people running this club are. And I doubt we'll ever get a proper opportunity to assess whether any of those keepers are actually any good, because they'll continue to be chopped and changed and passed around rather than properly nurtured.
    Neil etheridge is 30 yrs old hardly young and inexperienced
  • MrLargo
    MrLargo Posts: 8,000
    Ledge said:

    MrLargo said:

    SELR_addicks said:

    Marko Dmitrovic should also be a 'not yet'. He's looked better than Pope in games played for us and is also young.

    Specifically looking at the keeper situation, after Henderson got injured we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Nick Pope. When Pope looked like he was struggling, we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Neil Etheridge. When Etheridge let in 5 against Watford, we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Dmitrovic.

    We haven't won a single game since Henderson's last appearance, and the procession of young keepers since then just highlights how clueless the people running this club are. And I doubt we'll ever get a proper opportunity to assess whether any of those keepers are actually any good, because they'll continue to be chopped and changed and passed around rather than properly nurtured.
    Neil etheridge is 30 yrs old hardly young and inexperienced
    He's 25, which is young for a keeper, and had 16 games in League 1 and 2 under his belt before joining us. Young and inexperienced.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Etheridge
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,521
    Ledge said:

    MrLargo said:

    SELR_addicks said:

    Marko Dmitrovic should also be a 'not yet'. He's looked better than Pope in games played for us and is also young.

    Specifically looking at the keeper situation, after Henderson got injured we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Nick Pope. When Pope looked like he was struggling, we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Neil Etheridge. When Etheridge let in 5 against Watford, we replaced him with a young, inexperienced keeper in Dmitrovic.

    We haven't won a single game since Henderson's last appearance, and the procession of young keepers since then just highlights how clueless the people running this club are. And I doubt we'll ever get a proper opportunity to assess whether any of those keepers are actually any good, because they'll continue to be chopped and changed and passed around rather than properly nurtured.
    Neil etheridge is 30 yrs old hardly young and inexperienced
    Just turned 25.
  • Ledge
    Ledge Posts: 7,179
    Oops thought he was 30 lol sorry ..

  • Shag
    Shag Posts: 4,557
    Next you'll be telling us you're only 48
  • Simonsen
    Simonsen Posts: 5,513
    Individually most of them are good enough for a routine Championship team but collectively we don't have the right blend.
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,406
    Your assessment is near the mark, we could differ on a few, but not many. On the other hand, look what a manager like Warburton has done in the Championship with what is essentially a 1st division playing staff.
    'It aint what you got it's the way that you use it' and right now CAFC has neither the impetus from the owners or the necessary skill or bravery at management level to make remotely the best use of what is potentially a decent squad of players.
    But we all know this and can do nothing about it
  • Davo55
    Davo55 Posts: 7,849
    Lincsaddick said:

    Your assessment is near the mark, we could differ on a few, but not many. On the other hand, look what a manager like Warburton has done in the Championship with what is essentially a 1st division playing staff.
    'It aint what you got it's the way that you use it' and right now CAFC has neither the impetus from the owners or the necessary skill or bravery at management level to make remotely the best use of what is potentially a decent squad of players.
    But we all know this and can do nothing about it

    Agree that a better coach would get more out of the players that we have, both individually and as a unit.
  • LenGlover
    LenGlover Posts: 31,685
    edited February 2015
    Chris Powell took an essentially third division squad to 9th in the Championship table.

    Alan Curbishley's teams were always greater than the sum of their parts.

    Team spirit, desire and good organisation can take you a long way at this level.

    With few exceptions like Cousins we have none of those.

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  • thai malaysia addick
    thai malaysia addick Posts: 18,415
    LenGlover said:

    Chris Powell took an essentially third division squad to 9th in the Championship table.

    Alan Curbishley's teams were always greater than the sum of their parts.

    Team spirit, desire and good organisation can take you a long way at this level.

    With few exceptions like Cousins we have none of those.

    I was about to type the same thing, Len. Individually, many of them are capable of playing competently or better week in week out at Championship level. However, football is not about individuals most of the time, it is about how a team works together. This one doesn't. Why we have allowed players who seemed to contribute to the team spirit go, I don't understand. I would rather than an average team that was capable of performing above itself.

    Some time ago, I posted that I would rather have Morrison and Dervite at the back than TBH and Bikey. Why? Not because they are better players, but because they will give 100% and are both competent at this level.

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