I don't believe that Roland has it in for us, in fact quite the opposite as there seems little value in it for him if we fail as a club and investment in things like the stadium (and players for that matter) do not indicate us being left to rot in the way Mick and Tone (and Kev) were doing. The trouble is I'm not really sure what Roland intends for us because he hasn't really told us. If he just sees us as a mid-table Championship team I can live with that, just as long as I know not to get my hopes up too much for something more.
I am honestly not having a go, Exiled, because I think your post was incredibly well written and argued, but this paragraph really confuses me. It is a point that many posters have made, fundamentally: 'we do not know what the club's ambitions are'.
But in the VIP meeting yesterday (and to my mind, several times previously), KM was absolutely clear that the ambition was to be an established Championship club, yes she wanted to work towards the Premiership in time, but she wanted to be very realistic and was not going to make wild promises about when that would be.
Isn't that exactly telling you what she intends for the club? What more do you want to know?
Well for one, I'd like to hear it direct from Roland, but also where do we sit in the network, can we expect to see our players (young or old) being shifted around the network, does he intend to go for things like Cat 1 academy status etc., there are a number of things that are of interest that extend beyond the results on the pitch.
I've watched about half of the meeting video, I'll wach the rest tomorrow. So far KM's answers have been reasonable imo and I'm quite happy to admit that but I think the club has to understand that if you want to instigate a new model of running a club and have the fans on side, you need to explain it fully to the fans, otherwise you foster an environment for rumour, innuendo and misinformation. I don't think we've really had that explanation and imo it can only really come from Roland. People don't like change, and especially change they don't understand, if the club helps us understand it they might find they have more support they think.
For me, Roland has got himself involved with a project (ie football club ownership) that the fans feel does not have a positive long-term benefit for the club and us, the fans. A group of us are so concerned about this that we feel the need for answers and reassurance. The perception that we are being lied to and swatted away like a pesky fly is simply adding fuel to the flames and has led to the feeling that clear direction of 'next steps' is needed. Hence last night's Open Meeting. I too do not understand the motives for buying Charlton and that is really concerning me. I want my club to survive and show ambition for progression; ideally back to the Premiership. I think we, the fans, are entitled to expect our club's owners to have the same goals. At the moment I have see no signs of this and, therefore feel that we have the wrong owner to meet my/our ambitions. I am grateful that we appear to be more financially stable since the takeover but that does not mean that I am content to now let the owner lead the club's future down the wrong path while he dabbles with his 'project'.
I believe the main complaint against Roland is lack of communication, and it is that which has led to me describing him as an autocrat who wants to make every decision, and who has not grasped the concept of delegation. I have not met Roland, and at the moment I would expect to find him very stubborn and reluctant to listen to others. At the moment I have no sympathy with him whatsoever, but I am willing to be persuaded, but only by action and not by silence.
My own personal feeling is that all Roland has to do to get the majority of supporters, at least, somewhat onside is a) talk to us directly in an environment where people can ask him straight questions and b) tell us the truth when he does.
I do not have a problem with the network idea on principal, unlike some. I do think we could be doing it better, but that is also partly based on me having to fill in the gaps in my knowledge of its workings through hearsay and educated guess work because no one inside has ever really taken the time to sit down and explain it to me.
I do not have a problem with signing foreign players as long as they are good enough, or are least thought to be at the time based on well informed judgements. I don't even have a problem with signing no one at all if that is all we can afford.
I don't believe that Roland has it in for us, in fact quite the opposite as there seems little value in it for him if we fail as a club and investment in things like the stadium (and players for that matter) do not indicate us being left to rot in the way Mick and Tone (and Kev) were doing. The trouble is I'm not really sure what Roland intends for us because he hasn't really told us. If he just sees us as a mid-table Championship team I can live with that, just as long as I know not to get my hopes up too much for something more.
The thing which moved me into the heavily sceptical camp (I'm not anti-Roland per say but I'm not entirely happy with everything that has happened on his watch) was the Luzon debacle. Not only did I feel like the club were not straight with us in that instance it has made me look back at other communications and cast doubt over how honest some of those were too. KM has now had a few opportunities to address the Luzon situation and other issues and has either clammed up a bit of given pretty thin, superficial answers. I feel a little sorry for her though as its really Roland who should be fielding those questions. I bear Luzon himself no ill will, I may even grow to like the bloke but I think the club put him in a shit situation by trying to make out he was chosen after a thorough process, when he'd probably have been better received if he'd just been announced as manager like Riga was.
It's like the club have started anticipating bad reactions before they have come and are trying to release information in the manner which will least cause controversy, but their ham-fisted attempts are actually creating more controversy than if they just gave us the truth straight, warts and all.
Charlton fans have stuck by this club through some much thinner times than this. We are a loyal and supportive bunch on the whole. We have certainly shown we can stomach watching a shit team as the club disappears up shit creek, but the club are treating us like trouble makers who can't be trusted and I'm afraid that has made a lot of people feel the same about the people in charge of the club.
Actually, Roland probably isn't all bad news and the club probably isn't hiding much from us and the fans will probably not cause a scene every time there is less than positive news but we've got caught in this vicious circle now where the fans don't feel they can trust what the club says and the club doesn't feel it can be open with the fans and each time it happens we all trust each other a little less. But, I'm afraid, Roland started it so no I don't feel sorry for him, but I'll forgive him if he improves his attitude towards us.
Well for one, I'd like to hear it direct from Roland, but also where do we sit in the network, can we expect to see our players (young or old) being shifted around the network, does he intend to go for things like Cat 1 academy status etc., there are a number of things that are of interest that extend beyond the results on the pitch.
I've watched about half of the meeting video, I'll wach the rest tomorrow. So far KM's answers have been reasonable imo and I'm quite happy to admit that but I think the club has to understand that if you want to instigate a new model of running a club and have the fans on side, you need to explain it fully to the fans, otherwise you foster an environment for rumour, innuendo and misinformation. I don't think we've really had that explanation and imo it can only really come from Roland. People don't like change, and especially change they don't understand, if the club helps us understand it they might find they have more support they think.
Thank you very much for coming back to me - very clear and well put forward. In truth, I think that, in regards to the individual points that you make, the club has already answered them all, but I suppose the key point is that you are correct: if well-meaning fans have not successfully received these messages, then that is a failing of the club's communication.
I feel sorry for him. Whether Luzon will be a success is something that we can only judge at the end of the season. People need to get realistic about our club.
I want to see improvement every year so eventually we are playoff contenders. I also don't want to see irresponsible spending to achieve that. We've had a terrible few months and the man with the money decided it wasn't good enough. He wants success and a strong top half finish. Did anyone here expect us to be promotion contenders?
I don't care whether he is in this to make money, in fact I think that is the best thing for us. The bloke paid millions for us and wants to make millions. That will only be achieved by eventually getting us to the premier league within our means. Results have been shit, managers have been changed but I don't see why this is a problem if it brings the success all parties want and no one has a crystal ball. Dutchelet has made the call that come end of the season we'll be in a better position under Luzon. We can only see.
If he gets it wrong and doesn't change it then we have a reason to be angry. But right now we've just won only our third away game all season so it's time to shut up and realise that no one wants us relegated and to support our club. Would we have won the last two games under Peeters? We'll never know and frankly why do we care unless people actually think Roland doesn't care and wants to see us relegated and lose his investment
My own personal feeling is that all Roland has to do to get the majority of supporters, at least, somewhat onside is a) talk to us directly in an environment where people can ask him straight questions and b) tell us the truth when he does.
I do not have a problem with the network idea on principal, unlike some. I do think we could be doing it better, but that is also partly based on me having to fill in the gaps in my knowledge of its workings through hearsay and educated guess work because no one inside has ever really taken the time to sit down and explain it to me.
I do not have a problem with signing foreign players as long as they are good enough, or are least thought to be at the time based on well informed judgements. I don't even have a problem with signing no one at all if that is all we can afford.
I don't believe that Roland has it in for us, in fact quite the opposite as there seems little value in it for him if we fail as a club and investment in things like the stadium (and players for that matter) do not indicate us being left to rot in the way Mick and Tone (and Kev) were doing. The trouble is I'm not really sure what Roland intends for us because he hasn't really told us. If he just sees us as a mid-table Championship team I can live with that, just as long as I know not to get my hopes up too much for something more.
The thing which moved me into the heavily sceptical camp (I'm not anti-Roland per say but I'm not entirely happy with everything that has happened on his watch) was the Luzon debacle. Not only did I feel like the club were not straight with us in that instance it has made me look back at other communications and cast doubt over how honest some of those were too. KM has now had a few opportunities to address the Luzon situation and other issues and has either clammed up a bit of given pretty thin, superficial answers. I feel a little sorry for her though as its really Roland who should be fielding those questions. I bear Luzon himself no ill will, I may even grow to like the bloke but I think the club put him in a shit situation by trying to make out he was chosen after a thorough process, when he'd probably have been better received if he'd just been announced as manager like Riga was.
It's like the club have started anticipating bad reactions before they have come and are trying to release information in the manner which will least cause controversy, but their ham-fisted attempts are actually creating more controversy than if they just gave us the truth straight, warts and all.
Charlton fans have stuck by this club through some much thinner times than this. We are a loyal and supportive bunch on the whole. We have certainly shown we can stomach watching a shit team as the club disappears up shit creek, but the club are treating us like trouble makers who can't be trusted and I'm afraid that has made a lot of people feel the same about the people in charge of the club.
Actually, Roland probably isn't all bad news and the club probably isn't hiding much from us and the fans will probably not cause a scene every time there is less than positive news but we've got caught in this vicious circle now where the fans don't feel they can trust what the club says and the club doesn't feel it can be open with the fans and each time it happens we all trust each other a little less. But, I'm afraid, Roland started it so no I don't feel sorry for him, but I'll forgive him if he improves his attitude towards us.
This is a brilliant post that exactly mirrors my view on the Roland regime. Wish I had seen the above sooner.
My own personal feeling is that all Roland has to do to get the majority of supporters, at least, somewhat onside is a) talk to us directly in an environment where people can ask him straight questions and b) tell us the truth when he does.
I do not have a problem with the network idea on principal, unlike some. I do think we could be doing it better, but that is also partly based on me having to fill in the gaps in my knowledge of its workings through hearsay and educated guess work because no one inside has ever really taken the time to sit down and explain it to me.
I do not have a problem with signing foreign players as long as they are good enough, or are least thought to be at the time based on well informed judgements. I don't even have a problem with signing no one at all if that is all we can afford.
I don't believe that Roland has it in for us, in fact quite the opposite as there seems little value in it for him if we fail as a club and investment in things like the stadium (and players for that matter) do not indicate us being left to rot in the way Mick and Tone (and Kev) were doing. The trouble is I'm not really sure what Roland intends for us because he hasn't really told us. If he just sees us as a mid-table Championship team I can live with that, just as long as I know not to get my hopes up too much for something more.
The thing which moved me into the heavily sceptical camp (I'm not anti-Roland per say but I'm not entirely happy with everything that has happened on his watch) was the Luzon debacle. Not only did I feel like the club were not straight with us in that instance it has made me look back at other communications and cast doubt over how honest some of those were too. KM has now had a few opportunities to address the Luzon situation and other issues and has either clammed up a bit of given pretty thin, superficial answers. I feel a little sorry for her though as its really Roland who should be fielding those questions. I bear Luzon himself no ill will, I may even grow to like the bloke but I think the club put him in a shit situation by trying to make out he was chosen after a thorough process, when he'd probably have been better received if he'd just been announced as manager like Riga was.
It's like the club have started anticipating bad reactions before they have come and are trying to release information in the manner which will least cause controversy, but their ham-fisted attempts are actually creating more controversy than if they just gave us the truth straight, warts and all.
Charlton fans have stuck by this club through some much thinner times than this. We are a loyal and supportive bunch on the whole. We have certainly shown we can stomach watching a shit team as the club disappears up shit creek, but the club are treating us like trouble makers who can't be trusted and I'm afraid that has made a lot of people feel the same about the people in charge of the club.
Actually, Roland probably isn't all bad news and the club probably isn't hiding much from us and the fans will probably not cause a scene every time there is less than positive news but we've got caught in this vicious circle now where the fans don't feel they can trust what the club says and the club doesn't feel it can be open with the fans and each time it happens we all trust each other a little less. But, I'm afraid, Roland started it so no I don't feel sorry for him, but I'll forgive him if he improves his attitude towards us.
Amusing to see the naysayers taking pleasure in our HT lead (through gritted teeth no doubt).
What a ridiculous, pointless, insulting and deliberately provocative post.
I don't trust Roland not to sell half the team when we are doing well, or some thing equally unfathomable. He has a long record of such which coupled with his intransigence, is a dangerous, and above all, unpredictable mix. Charlton is on shifting sand whilst he owns us.
That doesn't mean that I love Charlton any less, or that I wasn't as delighted as ever when we scored and when we won, or that we seem to be heading back on track.
Amusing to see the naysayers taking pleasure in our HT lead (through gritted teeth no doubt).
That doesn't mean that I love Charlton any less, or that I wasn't as delighted as ever when we scored and when we won, or that we seem to be heading back on track.
You can say this until you're blue in the face, but some people don't want to know.
Feel sorry for him? No. Despite his investment he seems to go out of his way to make a rod for his own back. I think we can only really answer this question on Sept 1 when the thread should be resurrected after we know what our squad looks like next season. If Watt, Vetokele, Gomez, Henderson, Ben Haim, Fox, Gudmundson and Belot are still here and we have strength in depth from within the squad then I'll admit to backing him.
Can we rename this the Absurdistan brag thread? It's all way too personal for him as he can't grasp the fact that you can not want an owner of a football club AND still want your Football Club to win.
Another big judgement time for Roland is post-season, he has sold SL's best players recently and he may well for us, let's see what he's made of because breaking this team up majorly would be asking for a kick in the teeth. If he holds onto them and even strengthens the squad, then I will salute him for that.
Can we rename this the Absurdistan brag thread? It's all way too personal for him as he can't grasp the fact that you can not want an owner of a football club AND still want your Football Club to win.
Another big judgement time for Roland is post-season, he has sold SL's best players recently and he may well for us, let's see what he's made of because breaking this team up majorly would be asking for a kick in the teeth. If he holds onto them and even strengthens the squad, then I will salute him for that.
So you don't want the owner but..........................................?
Comments
I've watched about half of the meeting video, I'll wach the rest tomorrow. So far KM's answers have been reasonable imo and I'm quite happy to admit that but I think the club has to understand that if you want to instigate a new model of running a club and have the fans on side, you need to explain it fully to the fans, otherwise you foster an environment for rumour, innuendo and misinformation. I don't think we've really had that explanation and imo it can only really come from Roland. People don't like change, and especially change they don't understand, if the club helps us understand it they might find they have more support they think.
No, non, nein, no, nem
I want to see improvement every year so eventually we are playoff contenders. I also don't want to see irresponsible spending to achieve that. We've had a terrible few months and the man with the money decided it wasn't good enough. He wants success and a strong top half finish. Did anyone here expect us to be promotion contenders?
I don't care whether he is in this to make money, in fact I think that is the best thing for us. The bloke paid millions for us and wants to make millions. That will only be achieved by eventually getting us to the premier league within our means. Results have been shit, managers have been changed but I don't see why this is a problem if it brings the success all parties want and no one has a crystal ball. Dutchelet has made the call that come end of the season we'll be in a better position under Luzon. We can only see.
If he gets it wrong and doesn't change it then we have a reason to be angry. But right now we've just won only our third away game all season so it's time to shut up and realise that no one wants us relegated and to support our club. Would we have won the last two games under Peeters? We'll never know and frankly why do we care unless people actually think Roland doesn't care and wants to see us relegated and lose his investment
I don't trust Roland not to sell half the team when we are doing well, or some thing equally unfathomable. He has a long record of such which coupled with his intransigence, is a dangerous, and above all, unpredictable mix. Charlton is on shifting sand whilst he owns us.
That doesn't mean that I love Charlton any less, or that I wasn't as delighted as ever when we scored and when we won, or that we seem to be heading back on track.
GUY AND ROLAND's RED AND WHITE ARMY
Another big judgement time for Roland is post-season, he has sold SL's best players recently and he may well for us, let's see what he's made of because breaking this team up majorly would be asking for a kick in the teeth. If he holds onto them and even strengthens the squad, then I will salute him for that.
Looking good Roland.