Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
Herbert 'Bert' Gwyn Turner
Brithdirboy
Posts: 10
I have great interest in Bert Turner, a Charlton Athletic stalwart 1933-1940. Then war came and from what I have managed to resource he only played a handful of games for Charlton between 1940/41 and 1944/45 seasons. I assume Bert joined the RAF -no proof- just due to him being selected and playing in Forces Representative games for the RAF (newspaper articles). I know Bert returned to Charlton after the war - The FA cup of 1946 is well documented when Bert had the misfortune to score for both sides. Can anyone please help with details/information on Bert Turner during the war years
0
Comments
-
EDIT: Out of date link re photos but a bit about his general life
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=456280.00 -
0
-
I see you come from the same town as Bert.
A quick look at the Valiant 500 book just has him down as joining the RAF during the war although it also say he was with the Welsh Regiment until 1933.
Eight full caps and Eight war time caps.
One of the players who won back to back promotions and then finished runners up in the first division in consecutive seasons.
I will see if the Charlton Athletic Museum has more.
What, other than the location, is your interest in him?
0 -
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/football-comes-charlton-athletic-training-153800009.html
He's also on this clip.0 -
I have found that there was a Herbet Gwyn Turner (which is the footballer's exact full name) who was an airman during WW2. His index tag is stamped "MILITIA" and his serial no. was 1192602. There is also a typed abbreviation or someone's initials, JH (I think it means something, but don't know what yet). That's all the info from the index. Sounds like he was an RAF reservist or was recruited from the militia, i.e. reserves. It is 99% probable that is him.
Can't tell you more without having to pay to get at the records.0 -
Thanks Len, I already seen the links you mentioned but thanks for taking interest0
-
Hi Henry
Bert Turner and I lived in the same village of Brithdir and a few doors away in the same street (Charles Street) although Bert had left for Charlton before I came along. My interest is solely in the War Years.0 -
Hi MountsfieldPark
That's the kind of info I am seeking, where did you find this, can you send me the link?0 -
1 This is free info in the National Archives:
discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/addtobasket/C4005975
- You should see a page titled "Name Range: Trivett, Anthony - Turner, Norris". Click on "add to basket" - don't worry, it's just the index and is free.
- Go on to the checkout and there is a button to download a PDF of the index. It's a 250 MB file, so may take a few minutes. It's a zip and the big file 1.pdf is the one you want (2.pdf is the women). HGT is on page 1791 of 1989.
**Please bear in mind that, although they are letting you copy this free of charge, copyright restrictions will apply.
2 This is just an index known as AIR 79. Access to the more detailed files (known as AIR 78, I think) may still not be permitted for WW2 as some of the mission details, for example, are still considered sensitive. If he became an airman before that, you might be able to get access. Otherwise, if he's not a relative, it looks like it will be lot harder to get info.
You can try googling for terms like airman, air 79 or air 78.
nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/raf-rfc-rnas.htm
blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/blog/air-79-name-indexing-the-records-of-raf-airmen/
To be honest, I'm not 100% clear what the difference is between Air 78 and Air 79. Looking at various blogs and message boards, people seem to refer to both as an index.
Good luck!0 -
archive.iwm.org.uk/upload/pdf/RAFServRecords.pdf
This document, written on the assumption you're actually looking for WW1 relatives, on the Imperial War Museum site seems fairly clear that you would not be allowed access to HGT's service record unless you can demonstrate you are next of kin:
"If an individual had any service beyond the mid 1920s, or if he had a service number higher than 329,000, records will still be held at RAF Innsworth. You will need to apply in writing. A search fee of £25 is currently payable and you
will need to prove that you are next of kin." Obviously, HGT's service number is number one million and something.
---
I don't think I'm giving any sensitive info away to tell you that his family address in the 1911 census was 13 Charles St - perhaps you've already seen that!0 -
Sponsored links:
-
Hi MountsfieldPark
Thank you for your time and effort, unfortunately I am not related so it would seem I've come up against a brick wall. I know Bert had a daughter Jillian who married Bo George Roswall 26 Aug 1961 at Manston, her father Herbert was listed as Innkeeper of The Jolly Farmer in Manston. My efforts to locate her has failed, which is such a pity as it is only his war service that's missing from his life story.
Best Regards0 -
Are you writing a book?0
-
http://www.geni.com/people/Bo-Roswall/6000000013940348782Brithdirboy said:Hi MountsfieldPark
Thank you for your time and effort, unfortunately I am not related so it would seem I've come up against a brick wall. I know Bert had a daughter Jillian who married Bo George Roswall 26 Aug 1961 at Manston, her father Herbert was listed as Innkeeper of The Jolly Farmer in Manston. My efforts to locate her has failed, which is such a pity as it is only his war service that's missing from his life story.
Best Regards
Don't know whether this helps.
EDIT: You can send Bo Roswall a message via the site it appears.0 -
Thanks Len; I have just sent him a message and await a reply (fingers crossed)0
-
Henry: sorry I only just seen your question. Several years ago I set off on a quest to research the history of Brithdir, a mining village in the Rhymney Valley of Glamorgan, where I was raised and the birthplace of Bert Turner. My aim was to learn everything and anything about the village and its people and yes, to write a book. Sadly I learnt the cost of publishing such a book was beyond what I could afford. The disappointment over, I still have the interest and continue to learn what I can and I now write articles on a historical nature for a local historical society of which I am a member. I do this at my own expense and the society-a non profit organisation - publishes an annual journal for its members. I hope to submit an article on the career of Bert Turner in our next journal.6
-
Thanks, I'm a trustee of the Charlton Athletic Museum so anything we can find were happy to give you.
Would live to see the article0 -
Good thread.
0 -
I have his early life in the village, and I have some interesting details of his army service in India. He returned to his birthplace in 1933 and shortly after signed for Charlton Athletic. His career with Charlton is well documented, as is his international games for Wales. I have found some newspaper articles of his RAF football, but I assume there has got to be more about Bert during that period.0
-
Henry
I have a copy of Jack Rollin's "Soccer at War 1939-45". According to Rollin's Herbert G Turner played 18 times for Charlton between 1941-1945. 40/41 (2), 41/42 (6), 42/43 (6), 43/44 (3) and 44/45 (1). I wonder if the museum has programmes for these games? I would assume from this that Bert was stationed locally. He also guested for Lovell's FC of Newport, South Wales, but unfortunately I've not found any records, it does suggest that at some point he may have been stationed at the RAF base at St Athan.0 -
He also played 19 times (one goal) in 1939 /40 souther regional league and three times in the official 39/40 season.
he didn't play in any of Charlton's three war time finals.0 -
Sponsored links:
-
I've found a possible meaning of "JH" on his index record. It might be a squadron code and there are several possible squadrons.
JH No. 303 (Polish) Squadron RAF
JH No. 317 Squadron RAF
JH No. 74 Squadron RAF
en.wikipedia.orgwikiList_of_RAF_Squadron_Codes0 -
My grandad was stationed at St Athan during the war - my mum born in Llantwit Major as a result giving me Welsh heritage ( of which I am proud!)Brithdirboy said:Henry
I have a copy of Jack Rollin's "Soccer at War 1939-45". According to Rollin's Herbert G Turner played 18 times for Charlton between 1941-1945. 40/41 (2), 41/42 (6), 42/43 (6), 43/44 (3) and 44/45 (1). I wonder if the museum has programmes for these games? I would assume from this that Bert was stationed locally. He also guested for Lovell's FC of Newport, South Wales, but unfortunately I've not found any records, it does suggest that at some point he may have been stationed at the RAF base at St Athan.0 -
Hope you get a reply.Brithdirboy said:Thanks Len; I have just sent him a message and await a reply (fingers crossed)
Keep us posted.0 -
Hi Len
I have had a reply off Bo Roswall but unfortunately he cannot help with anything about the War Years.
Regards, Roy0 -
That's a shame.Brithdirboy said:Hi Len
I have had a reply off Bo Roswall but unfortunately he cannot help with anything about the War Years.
Regards, Roy0
