£10m would be cheap. Why sell this early? Were the other top Prem sides aware he was for sale? Wonder who in the network valued him. Same person who paid £800k for Polish Pete?
Fucking hell, can people stop wanking on about £3.5m, the truth is more, from multiple sources close to the club. Lazy people believing lazy reporting from Sky
This is where the "undisclosed fee" nonsense gets you in the end. Briefing reporters off the record while at the same time telling fans it's none of their business.
I can see that RD would probably look quite ridiculous if some of the other deals were in the public domain, but he can't have it both ways. No point blaming the media.
Before add ons I'm told it's somewhere between £5m-6m which is a decent price for an 18 year-old.
If a significant chunk of that money isn't put back into the playing squad though you have to ask yourself what the point of having such a brilliant academy is.
And paying seven-figures for someone who will inevitably end up at Sint Truiden doesn't count.
On Twitter the other day you indicated that he would have been happy to stay here for another season. Were you thinking of a possible loan back deal, and do you know if that was discussed?
I think Joe would have happily come back to Charlton on loan for a season and would suggest it would have been discussed. Sounds like Liverpool want him to spend some time at Derby next season like Ibe and Wisdom and think he'll probably end up there now.
Why wouldn't you want to send Joe to a club that is:
a) Likely to be competing at the top of the league b) Managed by someone who has coached the best players in the world over the past few years c) Is not "making do" in every single way (other than a nice pitch and radiant red seats)
It's about ambition and I simply don't think our club has any at the moment. I haven't heard anything from the club that would indicate otherwise either.
No wonder players and staff have been and are continuing to assess their options.
Why wouldn't you want to send Joe to a club that is:
a) Likely to be competing at the top of the league b) Managed by someone who has coached the best players in the world over the past few years c) Is not "making do" in every single way (other than a nice pitch and radiant red seats)
I seem to think we made more money from the sale of Darren Bent who we bought rather than developed, at a time when we were the PL billy big bollox, than we have made from the sale of any of our academy produce. Also we should remember that most of the academy products get shown the door. We shouldn't be too hypocritical, but we can be disappointed without being hypocritical.
I add my voice to those who wish JG all the best with his career. He is a real prospect but we can't honestly say he is going to waltz into the Liverpool set-up, never mind England. I thought Poyet was superb and look what is happening to him now. I doubt if whatsisname, the big English centre forward who signed for Liverpool last summer from Southampton feels this past season has been fulfilling in football development terms!
Finally, before I butt-out, I thought Solly was better than Jenkinson - the problem is we have only a handful of lower league games upon which we can base a judgment.
And how did we get so much for Bent? Because we burgled him for £2.5m off a lower-league team. It comes around and goes around.
For those interested in the fee and add-ons then the CAFC financial year ends 30th June. If there are no other sales then it will be fairly simple to estimate the fee when the draft accounts are released - often around September. And also the potential income due to add-ons will be apparent as the overall total will increase this too can be divided between a handful of player deals. This is not to take the emotion out of the situation but to take a measured approach as to whether our board are taking the club in the right direction.
Many have noted that we have always been a selling club - the only difference is the times we are in a strong place financially and get a decent fee or we are weak and get taken to the cleaners. This because the owners need the cash to meet the payroll or stay out of court with HMRC!
At the heart of this matter there is a paradox which @seth plum@Fanny Fanackapan and others have hinted at... I believe that it is possible for us to sell players now AND also come out with a stronger squad come August. This compared to the Brentford away game last summer. I think we are all entitled to be annoyed if the squad is not stronger as a result of this summers activity. And for reasons stated before it makes sense to me that M.Duchatelet will invest in free agents, transfers and loans to fill the obvious gaps. If you look at RD's track record then this is how he operates on a consistent basis bringing in players rated 1-2M - some flop, some stay and some are later sold for 5M+.
People know that I think we are getting closer. People know I cited transfermarkt last summer to suggest that Gudmundson, Bulot, Vetokele and Buyens were likely to be solid players and that we were becoming a mid-table club. They turned out to be good and we finished 12th. If the rumour is true and Bulot does switch to us on a longer, permanent deal then that's a sign that the board are building the team and squad. We clearly need at least five quality additions and if they acquire real quality throughout July then we will know for sure that the club is aiming higher than the 12th place achieved last time around. And if they don't improve the squad then many, many fans will question the ambition of the board. Rightly so.
And finally I would add that under this model it is more and not less likely that we will sell top players going forwards. If we continue to climb the league then other clubs will recognise the quality at our club. And some of our players (and their agents) will want to fast track their way to an FAPL contract which are probably worth a minimum of 5M over four years before tax! Personally I don't mind as long as our squad improves every season... and stays in business! So far this summer we have released more than 10 players of whom I would rate just Ben Haim and we've now sold Gomez. And Buyens is rumoured to be gone. We all know the gaps in the first team and first 18 and you can be sure the board and coaching team know too.
We made zero money for bent as we owed more than we sold him for
That's a strange argument - a bit like saying the government is making zero money selling the banks because there is still a deficit. Or that CAFC is making zero money from Gomez because it owes Staprix tens of millions.
I maybe in the silent minority here but why is everybody wishing well a player who only 3 months ago, signed a new contact and bleated on that it was great to sign for Charlton as i know they will give me the opportunity to play regular football blah blah blah instead of signing for a bigger club.
Hes now on the media saying what a dream come true this is. (wheres me sick bag)
Parker did the same and got hammered quite rightly by the majority, and to top it all Liverpool are taking about loaning him out to another championship club.
Personally i dont wish him well, i am only interested in players who want to play for Charlton.
He signed his last deal over 12 months ago, not three months.
I think we paid nearer 4 million for Bent, cant remember where i read that but it was from an official charlton document...further to this we wrote off i think the last year of the installment from spurs to get money up front, I am sure we got nearer 10million than the 16 that was agreed.
He will be the best Charlton youth player IMO. A good pre season and who knows what could happen.
JG was too good to keep so not annoyed.
IMO RD must keep JC and Gudmundsson. Only way to show any ambition. I feel if either or both leave then RD has shown his plans for the up coming seasons.
I think we paid nearer 4 million for Bent, cant remember where i read that but it was from an official charlton document...further to this we wrote off i think the last year of the installment from spurs to get money up front, I am sure we got nearer 10million than the 16 that was agreed.
We paid 2.5m at the time of the deal and then a percentage of the spurs transfer money went to Ipswich so making it £5,175,000 to ITFC in total
We didn't "write off" the last Spurs instalment, we factored it which essentially means we soldthe debt to a factoring company at less than 100% of its value so we got the money at once. Can't remember the % we took but was 90%ish IIRC
Official Charlton handbook lists the fee as £16.5m
So who can go on to be similar to Joe Gomez or better from our current crop of youngsters that we still have? Of our current youngsters for those in the know, who would you compare them too when thinking of their potential compared to the quality shown and potential reached of the recent few: shelvey, jenkinson, poyet and gomez......
I think we paid nearer 4 million for Bent, cant remember where i read that but it was from an official charlton document...further to this we wrote off i think the last year of the installment from spurs to get money up front, I am sure we got nearer 10million than the 16 that was agreed.
We paid 2.5m at the time of the deal and then a percentage of the spurs transfer money went to Ipswich so making it £5,175,000 to ITFC in total
We didn't "write off" the last Spurs instalment, we factored it which essentially means we soldthe debt to a factoring company at less than 100% of its value so we got the money at once. Can't remember the % we took but was 90%ish IIRC
Official Charlton handbook lists the fee as £16.5m
Presumably in future issues that table will be removed unless they disclose the Gomez fee ...
I think we paid nearer 4 million for Bent, cant remember where i read that but it was from an official charlton document...further to this we wrote off i think the last year of the installment from spurs to get money up front, I am sure we got nearer 10million than the 16 that was agreed.
We paid 2.5m at the time of the deal and then a percentage of the spurs transfer money went to Ipswich so making it £5,175,000 to ITFC in total
We didn't "write off" the last Spurs instalment, we factored it which essentially means we soldthe debt to a factoring company at less than 100% of its value so we got the money at once. Can't remember the % we took but was 90%ish IIRC
Official Charlton handbook lists the fee as £16.5m
Presumably in future issues that table will be removed unless they disclose the Gomez fee ...
For those interested in the fee and add-ons then the CAFC financial year ends 30th June. If there are no other sales then it will be fairly simple to estimate the fee when the draft accounts are released - often around September. b
I think you're overlooking the millions we'll have received for LePoint :-)
The players wishes have to be taken into account on this too. It's all very well looking at this purely from the perspective of what's best for the club financially but the way the club treats its players has always been a big selling point about coming to Charlton and why so many ex players end up back in SE7 in one capacity or another.
We cannot compete with what the very top sides can offer youngsters financially or in terms of facilities (maybe a bit more once the Sparrows Lane upgrades are done) so we have to be somewhere that has a reputation for treating the kids right, giving them a realistic path to the first team, and doesn't stand in their way if/when a big opportunity comes their way which they wish to take. In return we are fair to expect that they behave in the manner that Shelvey and Gomez have, i.e. one which gives some protection to the club's position of being able to negotiate a fair deal and then leaving in a dignified and respectful manner. Post Bosman and during the Premier League era we can't expect anymore than that unfortunately.
I hope it wasn't for only 3.5 mil and we have a good sell-on clause! At least we got a fee for him unlike some who just let their contracts run down. Disappointed he will be loaned to Derby but in reality they are not our rivals as this owner only wants to survive in this league !
For those interested in the fee and add-ons then the CAFC financial year ends 30th June. If there are no other sales then it will be fairly simple to estimate the fee when the draft accounts are released - often around September. b
I think you're overlooking the millions we'll have received for LePoint :-)
I think you've reinforced my point? Aside from the undisclosed fee for Poyet which is not more than 1M according to a foot note in last season's accounts I don't think there are any other material sales.
As for purchases, we will see the total in the player amortisation table but it will be a lot harder to analyse the detail given there have been so many acquisitions in the last 12 months.
Just can't believe there wasn't some kind of arrangement here.
So perhaps Joe has a contract says after the first season, that if one of a number of top club comes in for you, you can go to the highest bidder. Hence the interest from Arse lately too. It may have been the only thing that would get him to sign. Someone ask Ollie...?
Comments
I can see that RD would probably look quite ridiculous if some of the other deals were in the public domain, but he can't have it both ways. No point blaming the media.
a) Likely to be competing at the top of the league
b) Managed by someone who has coached the best players in the world over the past few years
c) Is not "making do" in every single way (other than a nice pitch and radiant red seats)
It's about ambition and I simply don't think our club has any at the moment. I haven't heard anything from the club that would indicate otherwise either.
No wonder players and staff have been and are continuing to assess their options.
The man is a fantastic coach
Many have noted that we have always been a selling club - the only difference is the times we are in a strong place financially and get a decent fee or we are weak and get taken to the cleaners. This because the owners need the cash to meet the payroll or stay out of court with HMRC!
At the heart of this matter there is a paradox which @seth plum @Fanny Fanackapan and others have hinted at... I believe that it is possible for us to sell players now AND also come out with a stronger squad come August. This compared to the Brentford away game last summer. I think we are all entitled to be annoyed if the squad is not stronger as a result of this summers activity. And for reasons stated before it makes sense to me that M.Duchatelet will invest in free agents, transfers and loans to fill the obvious gaps. If you look at RD's track record then this is how he operates on a consistent basis bringing in players rated 1-2M - some flop, some stay and some are later sold for 5M+.
People know that I think we are getting closer. People know I cited transfermarkt last summer to suggest that Gudmundson, Bulot, Vetokele and Buyens were likely to be solid players and that we were becoming a mid-table club. They turned out to be good and we finished 12th. If the rumour is true and Bulot does switch to us on a longer, permanent deal then that's a sign that the board are building the team and squad. We clearly need at least five quality additions and if they acquire real quality throughout July then we will know for sure that the club is aiming higher than the 12th place achieved last time around. And if they don't improve the squad then many, many fans will question the ambition of the board. Rightly so.
And finally I would add that under this model it is more and not less likely that we will sell top players going forwards. If we continue to climb the league then other clubs will recognise the quality at our club. And some of our players (and their agents) will want to fast track their way to an FAPL contract which are probably worth a minimum of 5M over four years before tax! Personally I don't mind as long as our squad improves every season... and stays in business! So far this summer we have released more than 10 players of whom I would rate just Ben Haim and we've now sold Gomez. And Buyens is rumoured to be gone. We all know the gaps in the first team and first 18 and you can be sure the board and coaching team know too.
That we had other debts doesn't come into it.
If you buy a house for 250k and sell it for 750k you've made money on it even if you had to spend it all covering your gambling debts.
He will be the best Charlton youth player IMO. A good pre season and who knows what could happen.
JG was too good to keep so not annoyed.
IMO RD must keep JC and Gudmundsson. Only way to show any ambition. I feel if either or both leave then RD has shown his plans for the up coming seasons.
We didn't "write off" the last Spurs instalment, we factored it which essentially means we soldthe debt to a factoring company at less than 100% of its value so we got the money at once. Can't remember the % we took but was 90%ish IIRC
Official Charlton handbook lists the fee as £16.5m
My guess is "£6m (estimated)"
We cannot compete with what the very top sides can offer youngsters financially or in terms of facilities (maybe a bit more once the Sparrows Lane upgrades are done) so we have to be somewhere that has a reputation for treating the kids right, giving them a realistic path to the first team, and doesn't stand in their way if/when a big opportunity comes their way which they wish to take. In return we are fair to expect that they behave in the manner that Shelvey and Gomez have, i.e. one which gives some protection to the club's position of being able to negotiate a fair deal and then leaving in a dignified and respectful manner. Post Bosman and during the Premier League era we can't expect anymore than that unfortunately.
As for purchases, we will see the total in the player amortisation table but it will be a lot harder to analyse the detail given there have been so many acquisitions in the last 12 months.
So perhaps Joe has a contract says after the first season, that if one of a number of top club comes in for you, you can go to the highest bidder. Hence the interest from Arse lately too. It may have been the only thing that would get him to sign. Someone ask Ollie...?