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Fans Meeting - Questions
rikofold
Posts: 4,051
As we're all bored waiting for the video of the meeting I thought I'd post up the questions the group of fans' reps and randomly selected supporters had pulled together ahead of the meeting for you all to read. I should credit @Grapevine49 who helped with the direction and provided some of the questions. Anyway, I hope it gives you an idea of what we were hoping to achieve.
It's not perfect, but as a collaborative effort it's not a horse designed by committee either. We aimed to focus on themes, starting with a lead question on each with scripted/unscripted follow ups from the floor - more of a structure than a script, especially as we needed to allow those not involved in the team effort to ask their questions too. We were hamstrung by the way the club directed the meeting, but we probably got through most of these on the night albeit in a different order. We did lose the flow we'd prepared though and some sections suffered as a result.
I'd be really grateful if when watching the video people would be so kind as to record on here the answers to any of these specific questions (or similar ones). It would give all of us a good base to see what was answered and what we may still wish to pursue further.
In case anyone can't access the PDF, try this link to googledrive.
It's not perfect, but as a collaborative effort it's not a horse designed by committee either. We aimed to focus on themes, starting with a lead question on each with scripted/unscripted follow ups from the floor - more of a structure than a script, especially as we needed to allow those not involved in the team effort to ask their questions too. We were hamstrung by the way the club directed the meeting, but we probably got through most of these on the night albeit in a different order. We did lose the flow we'd prepared though and some sections suffered as a result.
I'd be really grateful if when watching the video people would be so kind as to record on here the answers to any of these specific questions (or similar ones). It would give all of us a good base to see what was answered and what we may still wish to pursue further.
In case anyone can't access the PDF, try this link to googledrive.
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I should add that the themes were garnered from the hundreds of emails and other communications the group received from supporters. The group were determined this would be as representative as we could make it.0
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From what I have read these questions are about fans have meetings with KM on a regular basis and not much else. Not one mention of the fans wanting her to leave and for RD to sell up. The last thing I want is for a select few to sit and cosy up to KM if there is another meeting it should be with ordinary fans that have no wish to befriend KM but represent what the majority of fans want Our Charlton Back2
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With respect, "Dear Katrien, our opening statement is that we want you to leave." "Ok then, goodnight".BPhasnohair said:From what I have read these questions are about fans have meetings with KM on a regular basis and not much else. Not one mention of the fans wanting her to leave and for RD to sell up. The last thing I want is for a select few to sit and cosy up to KM if there is another meeting it should be with ordinary fans that have no wish to befriend KM but represent what the majority of fans want Our Charlton Back
We were there for a conversation. What's to be achieved by saying what she's already heard on Saturday and getting her back up?6 -
There is no evidence the majority of fans want that, on the other hand yes there should be an open to all meeting0
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That would be representing the majority for Charlton fans, she may or may not have got the message and by the look of it you haven't got the message yet so why were you thererikofold said:
With respect, "Dear Katrien, our opening statement is that we want you to leave." "Ok then, goodnight".BPhasnohair said:From what I have read these questions are about fans have meetings with KM on a regular basis and not much else. Not one mention of the fans wanting her to leave and for RD to sell up. The last thing I want is for a select few to sit and cosy up to KM if there is another meeting it should be with ordinary fans that have no wish to befriend KM but represent what the majority of fans want Our Charlton Back
We were there for a conversation. What's to be achieved by saying what she's already heard on Saturday and getting her back up?0 -
Nobody wants a select few to cosy up, and there is no evidence for it in what has been published.1
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Where do you get majority of fans from? This is just your opinon until there is a poll of some sortBPhasnohair said:
That would be representing the majority for Charlton fans, she may or may not have got the message and by the look of it you haven't got the message yet so why were you thererikofold said:
With respect, "Dear Katrien, our opening statement is that we want you to leave." "Ok then, goodnight".BPhasnohair said:From what I have read these questions are about fans have meetings with KM on a regular basis and not much else. Not one mention of the fans wanting her to leave and for RD to sell up. The last thing I want is for a select few to sit and cosy up to KM if there is another meeting it should be with ordinary fans that have no wish to befriend KM but represent what the majority of fans want Our Charlton Back
We were there for a conversation. What's to be achieved by saying what she's already heard on Saturday and getting her back up?0 -
razil sorry did you not go on Saturday, the Roland out campaign the demonstration and black and white campaign are for her and RD to go. I will happily tell her what is on the mind of a large amount of our supporters in good old fashioned English. By the way it is being to look like divide and rule and she knows itrazil said:There is no evidence the majority of fans want that, on the other hand yes there should be an open to all meeting
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Yes I did i wore black and white and filmed it too, from the back admittedly at the time i was more black and white than roly out but that may be changing shortly
Nevertheless we need facts to back up claims like that.1 -
BPhasnohair said:
That would be representing the majority for Charlton fans, she may or may not have got the message and by the look of it you haven't got the message yet so why were you thererikofold said:
With respect, "Dear Katrien, our opening statement is that we want you to leave." "Ok then, goodnight".BPhasnohair said:From what I have read these questions are about fans have meetings with KM on a regular basis and not much else. Not one mention of the fans wanting her to leave and for RD to sell up. The last thing I want is for a select few to sit and cosy up to KM if there is another meeting it should be with ordinary fans that have no wish to befriend KM but represent what the majority of fans want Our Charlton Back
We were there for a conversation. What's to be achieved by saying what she's already heard on Saturday and getting her back up?
As it happens we did do a survey, after the game at the weekend. 1% of respondents wanted a new owner. The top two priorities were a manager with English experience, and for the club to share its vision. We would have no hope of achieving the latter if we walked in with banners raised and knives drawn. The meeting was not a protest, it was a conversation.rikofold said:I should add that the themes were garnered from the hundreds of emails and other communications the group received from supporters. The group were determined this would be as representative as we could make it.
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I am not sure if you are on twitter but take a look at the followers wewantourcharltonback has, over a thousand and this is just for starters.1
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It has 782, and I'm one of them!5
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Its been divide and rule for a long time, but this week or so is pretty much decision time, the club have made their play, now collectively the fans need to decide what theirs is going to be.
I dont know how that decision is made, perhaps a meeting, perhaps a back to the Valley march from Eastmoor street b4 ipswich, And see how many turn up, perhaps a poll, perhaps we just say people do your thing or not.
This is a new situation for many at our club, and not as extreme as bttv0 -
The video's up0
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I think that number of followers is impressive. It might mean they can get organised and begin taking action, better than expecting others to take action for them, and complaining that they have not been second guessed and their exact points were not raised by strangers in another place.BPhasnohair said:I am not sure if you are on twitter but take a look at the followers wewantourcharltonback has, over a thousand and this is just for starters.
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Any new survey needs to be after the video has circulated fully i guess0
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Probably the reality here is that winning against shef wed pulled the club/fans back from the abyss1
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She is an awful presenter, she should add presentation skills to her personal development plan!0
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Personally my pendulum is swinging (ooer matron) between apathy and protest, and if anything the meeting has made things worse because of all the BS and spin just reveals it is PR, and anything genuine is now lost because the relationship has broken down to such a degree4
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Who? Go on go on go onAFKABartram said:Ah, @BPhasnohair just clicked who you are / were.
Welcome back....
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Thank you and yes I have calmed down a bitAFKABartram said:Ah, @BPhasnohair just clicked who you are / were.
Welcome back....
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Who was the big man that started off the one that apologised for a thousand plus fans abusing KM And where did she get 2 per cent from0
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Sigh.BPhasnohair said:Who was the big man that started off the one that apologised for a thousand plus fans abusing KM And where did she get 2 per cent from
I suppose this is about my shocking behaviour at the meeting.
If you watch the video from about 1hour 18 minutes to 1 hour 20mins and 30 seconds you will hear my intervention at that time.
Some of the context in what Katrien said which prompted my remarks, and then the 'however' bit that followed my remarks with the main point I was trying to make.
If it comes over as me apologising for a thousand plus fans abusing then OK, but that isn't what I said, nor did I apologise for the protest, I wouldn't have done because I was part of that protest anyway. I was both trying to be polite and move away from the abuse bit to what I intended to say about no change coming from the meeting.
I never thought I might get my own little gate but now I have one, apologygate, it is what it is.
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Seth, you did fine, mate, because what you said was in the context of telling her their answers weren't good enough, and it positioned you in the right place to say that.seth plum said:
Sigh.BPhasnohair said:Who was the big man that started off the one that apologised for a thousand plus fans abusing KM And where did she get 2 per cent from
I suppose this is about my shocking behaviour at the meeting.
If you watch the video from about 1hour 18 minutes to 1 hour 20mins and 30 seconds you will hear my intervention at that time.
Some of the context in what Katrien said which prompted my remarks, and then the 'however' bit that followed my remarks with the main point I was trying to make.
If it comes over as me apologising for a thousand plus fans abusing then OK, but that isn't what I said, nor did I apologise for the protest, I wouldn't have done because I was part of that protest anyway. I was both trying to be polite and move away from the abuse bit to what I intended to say about no change coming from the meeting.
I never thought I might get my own little gate but now I have one, apologygate, it is what it is.
I also thought Rikofold, Craig Norris, Ian Wallis and (since I'm not always his biggest admirer I am bound to add) John Commerford, did well on behalf of the fans, highlighting that the club had no answer as to why it hadn't managed the season-ticket debacle better, no answer re Valley Express problems, no answer re the missing Fans' Forum minutes and, most importantly, simply didn't appear to get the extent of the disconnect with the fan base.
While Katrien Meire said a number of nonsensical things and appeared to be on the verge of tears at one point, I do think that a major issue is the lack of capacity within the organisation to run the club. She introduced what she said was the team doing it, but apart from her only Tony Keohane on the top table actually has any day-to-day non-football responsibility and I didn't think he was much of a plus to be honest.6 -
Nah, let's call it Plumgate.seth plum said:
Sigh.BPhasnohair said:Who was the big man that started off the one that apologised for a thousand plus fans abusing KM And where did she get 2 per cent from
I suppose this is about my shocking behaviour at the meeting.
If you watch the video from about 1hour 18 minutes to 1 hour 20mins and 30 seconds you will hear my intervention at that time.
Some of the context in what Katrien said which prompted my remarks, and then the 'however' bit that followed my remarks with the main point I was trying to make.
If it comes over as me apologising for a thousand plus fans abusing then OK, but that isn't what I said, nor did I apologise for the protest, I wouldn't have done because I was part of that protest anyway. I was both trying to be polite and move away from the abuse bit to what I intended to say about no change coming from the meeting.
I never thought I might get my own little gate but now I have one, apologygate, it is what it is.
Has a ring to it ;-)2 -
Don't think anyone can fault those who found themselves in the front line. It's easier to do the wanker salute than speaking in public in a confrontational atmosphere being filmed for all to later criticise from the comfort of their armchair. If it had been me I would have been proud to have been as articulate as those who had the balls to speak.
I was seething reading the tweets, because out of context, they came across as offensive rather than defensive.. What the tweets highlighted and caused the heat was the complete absence of any sense that the club had got anything wrong. @rikofold picked this up saying we hadn't heard admission that changes were needed.
I was listening to Will Carling talking about the meltdown of the English rugby squad and he said every professional team has underlying frictions and conflicts that are kept under control by results, they paper over all the cracks. It's when results don't happen that the cracks appear.
That is what is happening at Charlton. Without results we implode because the structure is all wrong, there is no cohesion. There is no coherent relationship between the stakeholders. RD has a relationship with the manager. KM has a sort of relationship with the manager that is undermined by the RD relationship. The manager has a relationship with the players but some also have a relationship with RD. RM tries to have a relationship with them all. The fans want a relationship but it should be a naturally evolved relationship, not one determined by monthly powerpoint presentations or lessons on what we should be grateful for.
I hate being negative, I am a supporter of dialogue, but I honestly don't see what dialogue is going to achieve. Contradicting that, it makes no sense not to take advantage of whatever line of communication is made available, otherwise there is no way of having any influence apart from wanker salutes. It also leaves open the ability to prove, if it is the case, that a majority, not a minority of fans, want change.
I also think it's a mistake to give the message that management should listen to us for solutions. We just tell them what the problems are and ask them what they are going to do about IF they want to address them. They are paid to sort out problems, we pay to be entertained.
So I think we will probably have two camps. One camp that is happy as long as results cover up the cracks and another camp who want something more rewarding, that isn't easy to define, but know it's not load music and a DJ in Crossbars. The second camp will probably just drift away over time if nothing changes.18
https://youtu.be/MzbLnQ6QiZU
