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The thoughts of Rodney Charlton Trotter (literally)

AFKABartram
AFKABartram Posts: 58,163
edited November 2015 in General Charlton

So the dust settles leaving the same anti climatic feeling endured in the dawn following a general election, an England World Cup campaign or a Charlton takeover.
Even if the answers would not be forthcoming seemingly, at first glance, the potential was there to ask the questions.
Ok, it wasn’t ever going to the Nuremberg trials but it also it wasn’t intended (from the fans’ perspective) to be a cosy get together in the vein of Bromley Addicks or POTY.
The Board had different ideas and Johnnie Jackson’s presence at the head table signalled this from the off.
A truly confident and capable CEO would neither require, nor perhaps more tellingly, want the assistance of others in such a forum and certainly not playing staff who as we have seen in modern football are as interchangeable and relevant to the long term strategy of a club as the choice of third kit.
But then a truly confident and capable CEO would be accountable to both shareholders and stakeholders, namely “customers”, understanding that by disserving the latter ultimately disserves the former in the long run. Had this been the case the necessity for last night’s rendez- vous would have been redundant.
That is not to do a disservice to Jackson. He is by far my favourite player of a generation, the epitome of what I consider the cliché “Proper Charlton”. From what I see of him on and off the pitch in the media he comes across as a top man whose eloquence and charisma surely indicate future success in the game once his boots have been firmly hung up.
Whilst perhaps not entirely altruistic, with a playing career entering its swansong he will be aware of coaching opportunities at the club he appears to love as evidenced with Euell’s appointments to date, but to give up a Tuesday evening to facilitate questions from a disgruntled audience commands respect.
It still begs the question as to why he was there in any capacity. Was this to bridge the gap between the executive board and the fans? We were told many many months ago this would be Richard Murray’s role.
Regardless, Jackson’s comments are rendered irrelevant. Bar the foolhardy, very few footballers in the twilight of their playing career will publicly criticise the appointment of a new manager whom is giving him precious playing time nor endanger any future employment prospects at the club by openly condemning its leadership despite what their private thoughts may entail. Certainly not those who don’t enjoy the likes of Roy Keane’s wealth and therefore are not afforded the extent of free speech that level of financial security allows.
I deduct from this his appearance was perhaps to provoke a “Let’s not fight in front of the kids” mind-set amongst the carefully selected “random” audience.


Last night’s audience presented a problem but were also themselves presented with a conundrum. The majority of invited attendees appear to hold positions whether it is CAST, Valley Express or satellite Supporters’ groups which all require cordial ongoing working relationships of various degrees with the club’s leadership, whoever that existing leadership may be at the time and regardless of what one’s personal feelings may be about that leadership. This presented a challenge in adequately communicating the sense of dissatisfaction that had warranted the meeting’s occurrence and obtaining satisfactory answers through rigorous inquisition whilst maintaining a level of diplomacy so as not to burn already shaky bridges or those had yet to be built.
The club recognised this and knew there was never any danger of a truly robust interogation or relentless uncomfortable questioning for the fear of jeopardising any future access or accord.
I’m loathe to criticise those in attendance who probably all care about the club more than I ever will hence their involvement in such groups despite me being a devoted supporter of 25 + years. Those in attendance last night and those that take the time and effort to volunatarily lobby for change on behalf of supporters whether as part of the Trust or less formal groups are the ones out there trying to improve things for the club and, one would hope, fan base as a whole. So it is easy to glibly critique their efforts sat on my laptop in my tracksuit bottoms when I haven’t even mustered the enthusiasm to attend a game for motnhs and felt too apathetic myself to attend in person the protest on satruday, instead opting to fully support it from afar. Hypocrityical perhaps but such is my general apathy at what the club has become in my eyes particularly in the past year.

I like to think had I been there I would have bucked the trend and stood up succinctly ranting at Murray and KM to cut talking bollox and sort things out before storming out to rapturous applause and igniting a revolution that would turn the club around in utopian harmony between fan and club. However it is easy to be brave and outwardly enraged behind a keyboard particularly when I don’t have any stake in any club- affiliated groups reliant on input from its leadership regardless of how meagre that may be. It is entirely different to do it face to face when we are increasingly programmed to avoid conflict at all costs and it takes a lot to be the one to be disharmonious especially when fear the repercussions damaging fledgling relations which are apparently already frayed.
However there are many individuals in our fan base who would have happily and confidently stepped up to the plate in that fashion but of course they were never going to be invited in the first place.
If the higher echelons of the club had genuine intentions of resolving the current malaise increasingly evident in SE7 then the invitation would have been extended to the most vociferous and dissenting among the ranks of the Charlton faithful. Not rigged in a manner that would make Putin blush with a relatively safe and tame audience.
They could have even been really constructive and courageous and invited individuals who stood out under the grey skies to express their dissent on Saturday 2.30pm, the same individuals who by association with a minority within the protest were apparently flippantly dismissed by Katrien Meire last night as abusers and not a reflection of the fans.
Instead the club opted for safe bets and an audience largely consisting of truly decent people who would be potentially compromised in future due to connections to club- affiliated groups and a Trust still trying to get a foothold in the door that has been closed to them since day one. Therefore it was unlikely that last night would be the warts n all grilling many of us had hoped for. The makeup of the attendees engendered this would not be the case last night.
At least we can be grateful I suppose that the Board didn’t proceed with its hailed youth promotion policy and fill the audience entirely with keen teenage supporters as with previous episodes when the young lad was drafted in for crisis talks on behalf of the CAFC fan base around the time of the Woolwich meeting.
Why were journalists invited by the club to attend but not invited to ask questions? Their lack of emotional involvement and unashamedly direct questioning ability would have surely got to the root of the issues in a more efficient manner than the emotionally attached attendees seeking to build better relations with a detached ownership. And why was recent vocal champion of Charlton supporters Richard Cawley not in attendance, instead his paper being represented with arguably extensively pro- Board tweeting from colleague Toby Porter. Could this be because the message had already been determined? .....


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Comments

  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 58,163

    ....…. I am reluctant to criticise, albeit constructively, individuals particularly in such an impersonal platform as an anonymous internet forum. I have done it many a time on here over the years often regrettably and it’s all been very petty.
    However when you put yourself up in a position of relative importance and prominence such as a board member of a supporters’ trust then criticism will come with the territory.
    Yesterday lunchtime’s pantomime revelation that a key Trust member had attended a meeting with KM the evening before this meeting was damaging albeit perhaps unfairly.
    As he went on to explain he was there in his capacity as a Valley Gold representative and whilst I do not doubt his integrity or honesty it was a bad call to attend and perhaps a postponemnent would have been more appropriate in apprehension of a more important meeting 24 hours later.
    If it transpired that David Cameron met with BP’s CEO merely in his capacity as car owner concerned with the cost of petrol the day before he was due to meet the same party for a inquiry into the Gulf of Mexico oil spill then even the most credulous of onlookers would be concerned at this potential conflict of interest particularly if it was not disclosed. Regardless of whether all they discussed was the pork- bothering PM’s concerns about the rising price of premium unleaded and the cost of filling up his Vauxhall Nova it is the perceived implications that are unfavourable.
    The non- disclosure of such a meeting between the CEO and key Trust member on the eve of such an important meeting was also hugely flawed. If your missus was meeting up with an ex for a coffee and a chat then even if entirely innocent it would be far more concerning if it had not been mentioned and questions would arise about the need for such non- disclosure It appeared from various postings in the past week that there was an appetite for the attendees to meet up before the meeting and discuss the proposed questions and collaborate a line of questioning.
    A cynic could infer that a key trust member who by admission on here somewhat held the floor last night and was integral had met up with the KM. Armed with the line of questioning it wouldn’t be too much of a leap to assume from the outside that the CEO could have acquired the proposed line of questioning and as such be in a position to prepare suitably PR vague and bland answers in the following 24 hours.
    I am not implying by any means this is what occurred but this is a perception that could easily be deduced, warranted or not in these times whereby distrust and scepticism appear to be the default position for many of us.
    There is already criticism of the Trust in various quarters that it is people trying to generate super fan roles and fulfil notions of self-importance at the club whilst ostensibly speaking out for the good of the wider supporter in the street and that is perhaps a reason that puts many people off from committing to signing up nd strengthening the trust.
    We are asking for total transparency and demanding candidness from the Club. It is therefore essential that the Trust adhere to the same modus operandi.
    I have often interpreted some of the Trust’s outputs as a bit “We know best” approach. Whilst there are obviously very capable and well-meaning members of CAST there are also thousands of extremely capable and intelligent supporters that they purport to represent who perhaps feel patronised by this perceived approach.
    This isn’t a case of national security or a corporate merger whereby secrecy and confidential privilege are paramount. This is a second tier football club in a corner of SE London. Whilst few other than the most obsessive among us wish to know every micro detail of budgets and transfer targets be disclosed at the same time the level of secrecy and divulging of information needs to be improved for fear of it in itself appearing clandestine.
    Otherwise the Trust just becomes, by proxy another layer of club management, caught in a quagmire and nullified by lack of communication of substance thus rendered ineffective in achieving its initial aims.
    Any future dialogue the Trust or any fans’ forum type group receives needs to be outlaid in its entirety to the masses of those interested otherwise it is an entirely pointless function open to cynicism whilst fulfilling the pessimistic prophecy that it is ineffective and has achieved nothing of real substance for those it represents.
    I would see the Trust’s roles at this relatively early stage in the relationship with the club as more of a regulator than a friend. Not even as amicabley as critical friend at this stage given the leaderships complete indifference to supporters hitherto. There to offer advice and consultation with a common cause of building a successful club but robust and detached enough to tell home truths and come down on them like a ton of bricks should the fans they represent deem so fit.

  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 58,163

    I think that having been so starved of any genuine interest by the club up to this point means that snippets of dialogue such as last night are now overvalued and received with far too much gratitude. Treat ‘em mean keep ‘em keen. The proof will be in the coming months and whether anything changes. But having seen pretty much the same dynamics having occurred around the time of Woolwich all those months ago I don’t expect it to be anything other than lip service. Hoping I am wrong but it would appear that RM and KM have been disingenuous us more than once it would appear or at least spun the facts into a more favourable form re Chris Powell is our man, 20 + applicants but Guy Luzon the best and ither such rhetoric we’ve swallowed during their tenure.
    Ironically I don’t recall Roland Duchatalet every lying to us yet he is the one who gets the most criticism. At least he is giving us the money. To be fair though I don’t recall him saying anything to us at all such is his absence and I probably wouldn’t recognise him if he turned up to read the gas meter in a replica Charlton shirt so that is in no way any form of commendation for the elusive politican.
    Trust is earned. The trust earned by the Board over the years during Curbishley’s era was developed over time with individuals that actively engaged with their fan base and the off the field success was largely built on that relationship. I don’t recall them having to be reluctantly dragged kicking and screaming to the table which is how I perceive last night’s event.
    We would be naïve to put such unfettered trust in this board so early on particularly when it appears they have been explicitly duplicitous and after last night appear to continue to do so.
    Why did it get to this stage? It appears to have been a reactive not proactive approach to interaction after months of being ignored. It appears to me as appeasement on the back of the protests and in the hope of deterring further protests or at least mitigating their impact by dividing the fan base with such platitudes as last night.
    Words are just that. Yes RD has spent money but so has every single owner of every club in existence. He has also received transfer fees and gets revenue from the fans and tv rights etc so it’s not all gratis even if at this stage highly unprofitable. If it were simply a case of not having to spend money then we would all own Charlton rather than a multi-millionaire complete stranger who doesn’t appear to see the need or have the desire to watch “his” club in person despite dictating its entire existence.
    I thought that perhaps I should read through all of the notes of the attendees and watch the video to get the “facts” and perhaps when I do I will stand corrected. Whilst having read some of the comments of the attendees it does appear that in fact the questioning was somewhat more robust than could have been alluded from last night’s “tweetrage” and fair play to those there who did so. However it doesn’t change my instinct that it was a very heavily orchestrated appeasement exercise by the club and I struggle to see it as anything other than empty promises in the same way politicians deliver election speeches based on manifestos they neither have the intention or capability to fulfil.
    Weegie on here is a member of the Trust Board who I have met albeit briefly many seasons ago and who to me appears a genuine and trustworthy person and the sort of person I am happy to represent me as a fan. Her interview with Chris Powell last year implied that there was interference from up above in terms of team selection is completely at odds with KM’s denial last night that this never happened.
    I know who I believe which leads me to conclude that I should take everything else that was said by them (KM and RM) last night with a pinch of salt.
    In addition to this when comments from the CEO were made as ludicrously as each managerial appointment has been an improvement on the successor then I truly question the integrity and judgement of those espousing such nonsense. Concerning if she believes that we as supporters would buy it but even more worrying if she actually believes it.
    All just Belgian Waffle in my opinion.
    I think KM is probably a very nice woman and if you’re giving her personal abuse then you need to have a word with yourself whether it is verbally to her face or via the internet or emails.
    At the same time though I think that element has been extrapolated disproportionately. Of those protesters those giving personal abuse to my knowledge were minimal and to make it a key point of last night’s meeting slightly undermines her credibility. Cynically it could be construed as conveying the message to external media that she is undermined by our fan base due to her gender as opposed to her role in the Board’s hitherto incompetence and disengagement.
    For many of us it is far easier to criticise with clear conscience at a wizened middle aged business man than an affable and articulate young women hence perhaps the masterstroke of Deutchekat of installing KM in such a position.
    Some of the quotes i.e. factual quotes such as managers were not told about team selection, the best appointments etc. say to me they are blatant untruths, naivety, ignorance or poor judgement none of which are qualities I want from the club’s tea lady let alone the club’s leadership.
    Time will tell but to me it seems like an exercise in political spin that would not have been amiss on Question Time.
    As NLA (after his recent obvious conversion to Buddhism ;-) ) implied in another post the advent of social media has serve to diminish instant unity amongst football fans.
    By magnifying our differences of opinion and perspectives on issues as broad ranging as team selection to macroeconomic policy, internet forums have unintentionally hindered immediate unilateralism in football fan bases. Far from uniting us it has caused disdain and making it difficult to stand shoulder to shoulder, either physically or metaphorically with each other when you have spent the previous few years slagging one another off largely anonymously on the web.
    The club can log on after throwing a hand grenade of a controversial strategy change and see people at each other’s throats knowing the ancient divide and rule approach will do its work for them.
    I truly hoped when reading the live tweets that last night’s meeting would be the nadir/ watershed moment of this regime’s tenure and as a result everyone would say enough is enough let’s unite.
    It would appear not.

  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 58,163

    The irony is when people ask what is wrong at the club it is often difficult to articulate without sounding either completely ungrateful or illogical.
    On paper we have an owner who purports to put the long term financial stability of the club at the forefront which is refreshing in this instant gratification approach adopted by many rivals. Yet the stability and longevity is not reflected in the managerial mis- appointments and a lackadaisical approach to recruitment.
    The youth policy at first glance also appears attractive until the reality sinks in that we are not going to enjoy players like Scott Parker and Konchesky turning out to play for the shirt season after season before moving on but rather be sold on the minute they show promise in the manner of Poyet and Gomez.
    Whilst an apt fiscal model for a business we are a football club and thus entail the emotional element not apparent on a balance sheet. I don’t know many fans of any club that are inspired because net losses have been reduced by 6% in the same way 3 points against Millwall (ha!) fills you with joy.
    I don’t expect throw money at it boom or bust approach but as a supporter what has been played out since they arrived has failed beyond expectation.
    Talk of being ambitious for success is one thing but implementing the correct management and execution of strategy to achieve it is another. The owners and CEO are not football people and turgid season after turgid season along with novelty gimmicks such as sofas are not going to pack the stadium out or progress the club.
    I was initially supportive when they took over and after years of instability appreciated the ethos they espoused particularly after the Cash ran out with the previous mob.
    However I was never a fan of the network as for all of its supposed efficiencies it diluted the identity of the club and the tribalistic nature of football clubs.

    I, along with pretty much everyone I have gone to the Valley with over the past 25 years have drifted away in the past season. It is down to far more than results on the pitch. These are the same people who would trek to the Valley come rains or shine on a cold Tuesday night for a 3rd division game having just been humiliatingly knocked out of the cup against Northwich Victoria.
    Something has changed about the feel of it all. The soul and tradition seems to have been eroded and replaced with “their vision” of how a club should be. It is not just disenfranchisement with the lack of perceived progress or resistance to change for the better…it is perhaps because we are nowhere near the club we were in so many ways and it feels they are continually chipping away at our identity.
    “Building a better future together” splashed on Big screen posters that would not be out of place in North Korea whilst at the same time being told it’s Roland’s way or nothing doesn’t quite tally.
    Respect to the posters and supporters who just shrug their shoulders and have no interest in the perceived general malaise at our club and state that it’s the way football is, it’s cyclical and just go and support the team etc. and perhaps they are right and the rest of us are over analysing it but it just doesn’t feel like Charlton at the moment to me and many others.
    Don't necessarily know what it is but something needs to change about the culture of the current regime to get the likes of me to return and I can’t see it happening under this lot.
    I hope I’m wrong but I believe nothing will change if we as a fan base continue in that vein of "dialogue". The dwindling crowds speak volumes. We have been in worse positions form, financial and league wise yet still not had the evident levels of indifference since Selhurst, other than the inevitable drop off of glory boys post Premiership relegation.
    It's the apathy that concerns me and when you extrapolate that across thousands of others who have stopped going I worry we could end up another Wimbledon. Social media has caused division, cynicism and disdain amongst our support as opposed to unity and that's why I don't think the Valley Party scenario would re occur in the same manner. Therefore it needs to change before it gets anywhere near that stage.
    The only way I see to engender true change is to completely boycott attendance at home games if you are truly unhappy with the running of the club.
    It is evidently not in our nature as a fan base to escalate meaningful protests to the extent other clubs do. I’m not debating the rights and wrongs of that but it concedes power and leverage as the board are confident that as a fan base we rightly or wrongly “won’t cross a line” and therefore they needn’t fret about an impending hike in insurance premiums at the Valley and continue to feed us empty platitudes such as last night to keep us docile.
    I cannot understand the mentality of those disgusted at the ownership but continuing going to games stating “I’ve paid for the ticket so I will use it” despite spending 50 hours a week venting spleens on message boards about it.
    The argument that the team will suffer without a roaring crowd doesnt stack up either. If playing in front of a big Charlton crowd made any real difference then we would never win any away games and our records in local derbies would be less than shambolic. Rest assured there are more pressing variables at play as to our team’s substandard performance such as an inadequate squad and unqualified and short term management.
    Forecasts will be made and budgeting put in place after xmas I would imagine for the following season’s revenue forecasts. Whilst bodies still appear on seats on match day the Board has carte blanche to continue as they wish safe in the knowledge us mug punters will be back for another season of disappointment so strong is the addiction.
    Personally I am staying away but that’s been an easy decision and one born out of apathy and other distractions. I am a hypocrite though myself because if we had a good cup run (ha!) and drew Man United or even Millwall in the 3rd round then I would probably go back with gay abandon. And therein lays the problem. The draw of the club and the deep love we have for it forces us to effectively enable its mismanagement as we can’t bear to be away for too long and not long enough to make a meaningful impact.
    Maybe RD is selling hence a reluctance to find a permanent manager which would involve a hefty payoff for any new owners wishing to bring in their man .

  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 58,163

    RM’s comments last night about KF making the job his own and the complete lack of meaningful communication about recruiting a permanent manager would suggest the gig is his unless he completely nauses it up . Considering his record is already better than Parky’s opening 8 game interview processes no doubt RM has him as a shoe in.
    If RD sold up a Champions League club in the top flight of his own country then there’s no reason he won’t do the same with us. That is despite all the ridiculous and frankly patronising guff spouted last night about us being “Roland’s Children.” Straight out of the David Brent “We are all pieces of the same pie” management speak.
    I expect a couple of decent results and it will all die down and the promise of dialogue etc (we were promised this after Woolwich weren’t we?) will simmer current tensions.
    I hope I am wrong but I don’t believe last night’s meeting will improve anything despite those involved (fan’s side) best earnest intentions.
    They had to be forced into that position last night and even then dictated events and attendance.
    We are in the main too placid as a fan base. If trade unions employed such niceties we would still be sending kids up chimneys and working 7 day weeks. Last night’s meeting was crying out for a rabble- rousing acerbic and forthright speakers who would grill the board like Paxman. Instead we are Philip Schofield. I include myself in that apathy of course.
    Now I like Philip Schofield and anyone who gets paid a fortune to sit on a settee every morning next to Holly Willoby is winning and a good bloke in my book. But at the same time I would not propose the silver fox be at the forefront of lobbying to reform change against an opponent who clearly has no interest or regard on engaging with supporters unless it is on their terms and only after they’ve had their hand forced.
    I hope the club’s leadership, Roland, Katrien and Richard Murray prove me wrong and I willy happily eat my words if the statements of intent outlined last night and before come to fruition and the disconnect felt by many of us is healed. At this point though I am just left feeling in the words of a great philosopher “properly mugged off” and take the stance of that Dylan-esque songsmith Kellis when she penned “You might trick me once won’t let you trick me twice”. (Milkshake was a much better track admittedly).
    Time will tell.

  • Are you any relation to Grapevine Rodney ??
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,268
    Did you have a bottle of Plonk, Rodney ?
  • Sorry Rodders, you lost me at world cups and general elections ;-)
  • IAgree
    IAgree Posts: 1,846
    So to summarise ;

    (1 ) KM is an untrustworthy witch and we should make it our aim to get her out.

    (2) You want a total boycott of the Ipswich game.
  • johnny73
    johnny73 Posts: 4,567
    A brilliant post.
  • A-R-T-H-U-R
    A-R-T-H-U-R Posts: 7,678
    What was the middle bit again?

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  • On the SLP point - Richard Cawley's on holiday, I think.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,503
    There is a reason twitter only allows 140 characters : - )
  • WOW !!!!!

    Where have you been all my life, Rodney ?
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,245
    respect Rodney ... terrific posting
  • A-R-T-H-U-R
    A-R-T-H-U-R Posts: 7,678
    Length, so much more important than width, eh?
  • Great post, and very opportunistic of AFKA to steal his likes.
  • Can someone give me a TL;DR please.
  • Didn't think you went anymore Rodders
  • ken_shabby
    ken_shabby Posts: 6,326
    Great post. Agree with everything.

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  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 38,192
    Fucking hell don't he go on
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 38,192
    Only joking, top man is RCT.
  • Nug
    Nug Posts: 4,633
    Enjoyed reading that....no really I did
  • PL54
    PL54 Posts: 10,757
    Who is "he"
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,647
    Excellent Rodders.
  • CrayAddick
    CrayAddick Posts: 3,915
    He must have lots of GCE's
  • I might wait for the cliffs notes.
  • Wow that was a long read (for a forum post) but thoroughly enjoyable with some great points, well made.
  • scabbyhorse
    scabbyhorse Posts: 2,565
    AMC could make a series out if that........excellent post Rodders
  • I couldn't agree more with the paragraph regarding Jackson. What was he doing there?
    Not arguing in front of the children, was bang on the money.
    It was a discussion regarding how the club was run, the future and fan/club interaction.
    None of the above would have anything to do with a player.