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Am I The Only One That Wants Roland To Stay?
altrinchamaddick
Posts: 958
As the rain pours down in Manchester, I thought I would try to get my views on the current crisis across, as I am one of the 98% silent majority.
I have been following Charlton since 1965 and after retiring I have been a season ticket holder and a Valley Gold member. I have been to every home and away fixture this season ( bar MK Dons).
I fully support Roland Duchatelet’s aims of:
1. Creating a team that is competitive in the Championship with Premiere League ambitions.
2. Develop and improve the infrastructure of The Valley.
3. Improve the training facilities and Academy setup at Sparrows Lane, in order to provide our own players of the future.
I am pretty sure that most fans would support these objectives, so the arguments are around how they are to be achieved and how fast they happen.
Having been through the traumatic times of Hulyer and Fryer and the gradual decline of The Valley under Jimenez and Slater I want to see a steady evolution of the club, with a realistic budget that does not put the club in financial jeopardy in the future.
Duchatelet has certainly not got everything right. Player recruitment has obviously been a concern, especially last season and to a lesser extent this, with some signings not up to the standard or especially the rigour of the Championship. The important point is that he and his management team are learning from their mistakes, and the quality of the present squad shows a steady improvement. (although results might harm this argument!)
The second issue that some fans have complained about is the rapid turnover of managers/coaches. I personally supported all the changes except not giving Jose Riga a chance at the start of last season after his performance in the relegation battle. I supported the sacking of Guy Luzon because towards the end of his tenure he was playing players in unfamiliar positions and his rigid adherence to 4-4-2 left us undermanned in midfield. He seemed to lack tactical understanding that would have enabled us to scrape some points during our injury crisis.
The third issue is the CEO, Katrien Meire, she appears to have upset a great deal of people and has been accused of lying to fans, incompetent management of the club’s staff and mismanaging several issues such as the season ticket sales and the reorganisation of the lounges. I really don’t have enough insite or knowledge into what is going on inside the club, day to day to have a firm view on whether she has been beneficial to the development of CAFC. At the moment I’m on the fence, but I am willing at this stage to give her the benefit of the doubt until the end of this season. Changing CEO’s mid season may cause more problems than it solves.
Onto the protests, I have been disappointed at the crude sledging of RD and KM on here. What has it got to do with whether they come from Belgium or that KM is a woman? You are either successful at running a football club or not. The xenophobic and misogynistic rants that have appeared on Charlton Life are unacceptable. If you want to campaign for a change use arguments containing factual information not swearing rants, and empty talk. It concerns me that CL gets hijacked by some people for their own agenda, a bit like Militant infiltrating the Labour Party in the ‘80’s. Perhaps we have some UKIP/BNP/EDL members spouting their abhorrent rhetoric on here.
So, as a member of the 98% silent majority what am I going to do next?
1. I will not support the protest outside the West Stand against Ipswich.
2. I will not be supporting the Black and White campaign.
3. I will get behind the team fully during this relegation battle, I really don’t want to be in Div 1 next season.
4. I will continue to monitor the decision making prowess of our owners/CEO to try and get a balanced view as to their progress and intentions of CAFC.
What should the 2% vocal majority do? Well that is a thing that I should leave up to you. I fully support your right to protest, and make your complaints heard. What I’m not picking up is what you want to change other than wanting Duchatelet and Meire to leave the club with immediate effect.
My own opinion is while the club is in this difficult relegation fight, that you postpone your protests at the Ipswich game, both inside and outside the ground. Communicate with the club that you were going to hold mass demonstrations, but in light of the on-field problems they are being held back until the New Year. If, in your views, that the club have not shown a willingness to address the issues raised in the Fans Forum, start up your protests after Christmas.
My emotions for the club haven’t changed over the past 50 years, if anything, since I have retired and can spend more time following CAFC, they have strengthened. I am continually surprised on reading CL how many fans comment on, “ I want my Charlton back” and “ I’ve fallen out of love with my team”. Well the club is still here and it needs all the support it can get at the present moment.
So, finally, AM I THE ONLY ONE?
I have been following Charlton since 1965 and after retiring I have been a season ticket holder and a Valley Gold member. I have been to every home and away fixture this season ( bar MK Dons).
I fully support Roland Duchatelet’s aims of:
1. Creating a team that is competitive in the Championship with Premiere League ambitions.
2. Develop and improve the infrastructure of The Valley.
3. Improve the training facilities and Academy setup at Sparrows Lane, in order to provide our own players of the future.
I am pretty sure that most fans would support these objectives, so the arguments are around how they are to be achieved and how fast they happen.
Having been through the traumatic times of Hulyer and Fryer and the gradual decline of The Valley under Jimenez and Slater I want to see a steady evolution of the club, with a realistic budget that does not put the club in financial jeopardy in the future.
Duchatelet has certainly not got everything right. Player recruitment has obviously been a concern, especially last season and to a lesser extent this, with some signings not up to the standard or especially the rigour of the Championship. The important point is that he and his management team are learning from their mistakes, and the quality of the present squad shows a steady improvement. (although results might harm this argument!)
The second issue that some fans have complained about is the rapid turnover of managers/coaches. I personally supported all the changes except not giving Jose Riga a chance at the start of last season after his performance in the relegation battle. I supported the sacking of Guy Luzon because towards the end of his tenure he was playing players in unfamiliar positions and his rigid adherence to 4-4-2 left us undermanned in midfield. He seemed to lack tactical understanding that would have enabled us to scrape some points during our injury crisis.
The third issue is the CEO, Katrien Meire, she appears to have upset a great deal of people and has been accused of lying to fans, incompetent management of the club’s staff and mismanaging several issues such as the season ticket sales and the reorganisation of the lounges. I really don’t have enough insite or knowledge into what is going on inside the club, day to day to have a firm view on whether she has been beneficial to the development of CAFC. At the moment I’m on the fence, but I am willing at this stage to give her the benefit of the doubt until the end of this season. Changing CEO’s mid season may cause more problems than it solves.
Onto the protests, I have been disappointed at the crude sledging of RD and KM on here. What has it got to do with whether they come from Belgium or that KM is a woman? You are either successful at running a football club or not. The xenophobic and misogynistic rants that have appeared on Charlton Life are unacceptable. If you want to campaign for a change use arguments containing factual information not swearing rants, and empty talk. It concerns me that CL gets hijacked by some people for their own agenda, a bit like Militant infiltrating the Labour Party in the ‘80’s. Perhaps we have some UKIP/BNP/EDL members spouting their abhorrent rhetoric on here.
So, as a member of the 98% silent majority what am I going to do next?
1. I will not support the protest outside the West Stand against Ipswich.
2. I will not be supporting the Black and White campaign.
3. I will get behind the team fully during this relegation battle, I really don’t want to be in Div 1 next season.
4. I will continue to monitor the decision making prowess of our owners/CEO to try and get a balanced view as to their progress and intentions of CAFC.
What should the 2% vocal majority do? Well that is a thing that I should leave up to you. I fully support your right to protest, and make your complaints heard. What I’m not picking up is what you want to change other than wanting Duchatelet and Meire to leave the club with immediate effect.
My own opinion is while the club is in this difficult relegation fight, that you postpone your protests at the Ipswich game, both inside and outside the ground. Communicate with the club that you were going to hold mass demonstrations, but in light of the on-field problems they are being held back until the New Year. If, in your views, that the club have not shown a willingness to address the issues raised in the Fans Forum, start up your protests after Christmas.
My emotions for the club haven’t changed over the past 50 years, if anything, since I have retired and can spend more time following CAFC, they have strengthened. I am continually surprised on reading CL how many fans comment on, “ I want my Charlton back” and “ I’ve fallen out of love with my team”. Well the club is still here and it needs all the support it can get at the present moment.
So, finally, AM I THE ONLY ONE?
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Comments
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Where are you getting the "98% silent majority" figure from?
As for Roland's 3 aims, they're meaningless without a feasible pan to achieve them. In relation to point 3, he's not developing the academy to provide our own players, he's developing it so he can sell the players we develop (see Joe Gomez).
I could go on, but there's about a thousand pages on this message board where various posters have explained in painstaking detail what a negative force RD and KM are.38 -
Thank-you for taking the time to put your views across. I hope this thread progresses in a positive and constructive manner.
What you have written makes sense at face value. I am sure that 98% of us agree and support the stated aims of the board. The problem is, however, there are many more of us—more than 2%—that are concerned with the board's ability to assess what's needed to achieve those aims and to execute on any given plan.
Player recruitment has been overwhelmingly poor. And stated investments cannot be weighed without suitable points of reference. The board argue that there has been 9 million pounds spent on players, without stating how much of that has been fuelled by player sales. Further, to argue that there has been that level of investment, in addition to a 40% rise in player wages (again, impossible to contextualise without knowing at what level that increase has resulted in), is ridiculous. In effect, as seen against our current league position, it proves that the board's decisions have only resulted in failure.
As regards managers, it's beyond comprehension to argue that every one of the five managers appointed has been the right head coach at the right time, which is, on average, about four months. Surely, you can't argue that head coach recruitment has been anything other than disastrous.
You are not the silent 98%. We are not the vocal 2%.
Do not let Katrien define you, your club and it's future direction.64 -
Quick answer to your decent post, no you are not alone there is also Colin.
His aims are great but he will never achieve them unless he alters his strategy and involves those he deems obstructive, us.9 -
The figure comes from KM's assertion that 2% were involved in the protests outside the West last game. I put that in tongue in cheek.3
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Talk about kick a man when he's down.cfgs said:no you are not alone there is also Colin.
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I like what Roland has done so far...he bought a club that had the appearance (to me) of teetering towards the abyss and has moved it away from the edge...some of the players he's brought in were clearly not meant to be, some he's brought in have been fantastic...the managers he's brought in have all shown early promise but their tactics seem to get found out and there doesn't appear to have been a plan B but all credit to Roland, he gives them a chance to sort it out but quickly takes action if its just not happening...obviously there is clearly work to be done off the field as well and sometimes you just have to wonder- last week's DJ in Croossbars for example but that's not Roland...2
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Yes mate, you are the only one.7
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I don't think Rolland is to blame, although being owner obviously he is ultimately responsible for everything that is going on.
I think he needs a change of CEO and maybe just take a step back a bit perhaps then we could be successful, but as things stand he needs to go.
I think we could find a better option than Rolland. To be honest.
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OP. Can you please find a post where someone has stated the KM is rubbish at her job because she's a woman ?
Not saying there aren't any but I'm sure most of her opponents dislike her because of her failings and attitude towards fans.14 -
Do not let Katrien define you, your club and it's future direction.
As stated in my post, I am waiting to see how KM responds to fan's concerns. Based on her responses to issues like communications I will then make a judgement as to whether I feel see is up to the job.1 -
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Why can't you make a judgment now, as she has been in the job for a couple of years?
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Roland can stay, if he admits that he's wrong, his plan can't work & he adjusts it accordingly.
The objectives are fine but meaningless.
I can say my objective is to be a billionaire, so what.
The devil is in the detail and that's where the "plan" falls down.
A good post, well done.9 -
alan dugdale said:
OP. Can you please find a post where someone has stated the KM is rubbish at her job because she's a woman ?
Not saying there aren't any but I'm sure most of her opponents dislike her because of her failings and attitude towards fans.0 -
You are entitled to your opinion AA regarding Roland wanting to stay. There are a few that agree with you.
To claim that 98% of supporters not protesting as the silent majority, as agreeing with your view (using KMs rubbish 2% figure, even tongue in cheek) is ridiculous, as when KM said it. The fact that you ask the question whether you are the only one who wants Roland to say, probably means that you realise that. Trying to claim all the other people would be just the same as those who that are not happy with Duchatelet tried the same thing. The fact that KM used it is another example in a long line of KM putting her foot in it. KM is in the wrong job and doesn't have the necessary communication skills to work as a football CEO. KM is completely out of her depth and has got to go.
With the current strategy (and the haphazard way the club is operating), the club will be lower mediocre mid table at best, relegation to league one at worst. Charlton supporters will see the decent youngsters leave after a good season as they are ambitious, follow better wages and for funding losses. The model is going no where and there is no ambition. The premiership idea has about as much substance as a mirage in the desert.
It is typical of the Duchatelet regieme to not accept or be accountable for parts of the strategy that are being misapplied are not working. Luzon basically got all the blame for the winless run and the thin squad full of players, prone to injury or not having played much football was skated over. Not considering that any plan can be improved is a mistake and is one of the very big problems with Duchatelet and KM. They don't learn any lessons. It's one of the reasons why I want them gone.
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I want us to leave the EU. How abhorrent of me.
What a bastard I am3 -
I also agree that Duchatelet could be a decent owner, but the problem is that some of his appointments (CEO, and some managers) have been poor. He has acknowledged (through his CEO) that mistakes have been made, and while we can accept that to an extent, there comes a point when something has to give.
Where managers have failed (Luzon, Peters), or been deemed to have failed (Roga, Powell), the axe has fallen all too quickly. Where Miere has categorically failed (sofa, season ticket fiasco, not answering emails, lying over manager interviews, alienating a large chunk of the fan base, etc etc) she has remained ensconced, and it is this area that is now preventing the club moving forwards. If we (RD) can replace her with a more experienced CEO, give that person backing, then the club can once more move forwards.
We all ultimately want the same outcome for the club - for me, I phrase it as becoming a better club year on year. That may not necessarily be as a result of league position each season, but improve as a club - financially, profitably, better players, more fans, better facilities, etc). Throughout the 1990's, when Richard Murray was a board member and then became Chairman, we improved year on year. Look back on the details, stats, etc and you will concur. We had three bad years where we fell from the Prem to the third division, but have slowly clawed our way back up to the Championship, improving as we did. Now we have become static, or worse. This is the progress we need to reverse, and removing Miere would go a long way to doing this.
We can still go forwards with RD, but not with KM in my opinion.2 -
AA - I agree with much of what you've written. If only our inscrutable owner would begin the reconciliation process by a long-overdue overhaul of the communication with the fans, allowing the present deep and mutual distrust gradually to be resolved ....
It was the great man's 69th birthday yesterday - I hope that by the time he duly reaches his three score years and ten the current malaise will have faded to a distant memory.
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You ain't alone2
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Interesting post and always good to hear the different views.
98% silent majority ?
You believed Katrien 2% take on the people demonstrating.
As i didn't get there till 2.35 i can tell you that the majority who were half way back, or in the cark park were silent or quiet but were demonstrating in a Ghandi way either holding up the printed message or showing by their presence that they were not happy with the Status Quo.
The personal abuse of Katrien as a women and any Xenophobic chants were self defeating but if you are the CEO and the conduit between the fans and the Absent Owner, and her statements are hard to swallow with what even timeline you use,
she should in her position, and the clubs position expect criticism, as it goes with the territory.
The relationship Between Katrien Meire and so many of the good Charlton folk who have given up their time to help seem to have broken down, and this is my guide line more than the choice words of a few, who she will always mention, instead of the civil majority who have run out of patience with her spinning more than Alistair Campbell.
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Perhaps I can help you out AA.
Firstly, let me say that I have been supporting the club for about the same length of time as you, although I don't get to go to many away games these days. I also consider myself to be one of the silent majority. No, not the "98%" that KM dreams of but the majority of supporters that are very concerned about the future of our club. I stood silently (sorry, 2% !) at the back of the West stand last week, alongwith my mother, wife and daughter. We are certainly not the UKIP/BNP/EDL types you mention.
I also support RD's aims as stated by you but I wonder how accurate they are.
I believe the on-field problems are clear for all to see (except by KM and RM). Recruitment has been more miss than hit, spectacularly so in some cases, resulting in the "£9M" figure which suggests a club saddled long term with a number of expensive but essentially useless players.
You appear to have some difficulty identifying much wrong with KM's management. I find this surprising as there are so many examples. From my experience of business, the decisions she makes or presides over lack planning and common sense. But then, why wouldn't they ? KM has a background of a few short-length positions of a legal nature with no obvious business or managerial experience, let alone as a CEO. You simply cannot run a business of the size of CAFC without that experience. I can't believe RD doesn't know this so why is she still at the club ?
Maybe you are letting the most noisy amongst us cloud your view and therefore you are taking up a deliberately, but not necessarily conscious, opposing view. I therefore urge you to see that if you continue to give RD,KM and RM the benefit of the doubt, there may not be a club for you to support.10 -
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The second issue that some fans have complained about is the rapid turnover of managers/coaches. I personally supported all the changes except not giving Jose Riga a chance at the start of last season after his performance in the relegation battle. I supported the sacking of Guy Luzon because towards the end of his tenure he was playing players in unfamiliar positions and his rigid adherence to 4-4-2 left us undermanned in midfield. He seemed to lack tactical understanding that would have enabled us to scrape some points during our injury crisis.
The main issue is that they weren't good choices to be appointed in the first place.14 -
I think if we were a premier league side he could be great for our club . The problem is , with managers and staff he keeps hiring and the lack of investment in the team when it counts , there's fat chance of that happening.0
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Altrincham Addick you say:
Perhaps we have some UKIP/BNP/EDL members spouting their abhorrent rhetoric on here.
Why is this politicised don't left wing Labour militants and SNP also spout rubbish?
I think you are wrong about 98% silent majority.
I didn't renew my season ticket (had one since 1986) because
I'm so disappointed with these new owners and their lack of ambition!1 -
What makes you say that Beds?Bedsaddick said:I think if we were a premier league side he could be great for our club.
I can't help thinking that if we fluked a promotion we would hurtle straight back down, because he probably won't invest in the better calibre of player required to compete at the higher level.
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No he ain't.Valiantphil said:Yes mate, you are the only one.
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As always the reality of the situation lays somewhere in the middle.
It is indisputable that RD has done some very good things for the infrastructure of the football club. He also has a plan for the playing side that has brought in quality that is on the whole better than we have had for some years. He has also failed to recognise that his plan of small decent squad supplemented by youth will only work with huge amounts of luck.
Do I want him out ? Possibly if he doesn't adapt his plan to recognise it's deficiencies and no if he does.
Would him selling definitely leave us better off ? No way.11 -
What Roland and Katrien say they want for our club, is pretty much how I want us to be. Community focussed, good rep for developing talent (although it'd be nice to see some of them okay a few more games for us, but that is modern football to an extent), run properly financially and for our average position to be top half of the Championship. I'm happy with that.
The trouble is, so far, quite often what they say and what they do have to not always been consistent with each other.
I'm put in mind a bit of the film Mars Attacks when the Martians are running amuck destroying everything in their path with their ray guns while shouting we will not hurt you, we are your friends.5 -
Yes of course he is learning from his mistakes.....by appointing a third division Belgium manager, joke decision.0
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You make some good points there , @altrinchamaddick, and respect to you for posting as you did.
I too want Roland Duchatelet to succeed, because
- unlike most owners of English clubs, his wealth is both transparent and made in a way that benefit society. There is not even any suggestion that either at corporate or personal level he indulges in aggressive tax avoidance. Blimey that makes him almost unique in the English game :-)
- he is against many of the bad aspects of our game, including the power of agents, and supports a properly regulated FFP
- I can see benefits of a network of European clubs
I also want Katrien Meire to succeed because if our CEO was a 31 year old woman from abroad, and seen to be succeeding, I'd be proud of that. And everyone could stop fawning over Baroness Brady.
Unfortunately by all rational measure his tenure appears to be failing, in that we have not improved our (dire) league position as we approach the 2nd anniversary, gates are falling, and dissatisfaction is rife (I'll come back to that). On top of that, his tenure at his other clubs is also failing to show any improvement, as far as I can discern and learn from contacts at most of them.
The 2% was a most unfortunate remark, and has been rationally and comprehensively disproved by the latest CAST survey which shows that 93% of a sample of 512 believe fans are right to protest. There are inevitably some (minor) issues with the research but it is clear beyond any reasonable doubt that a large majority endorse that view. Certainly it's a much better guide than the assumptions behind the crude arithmetic of 2%.
@LoOkOuT has pointed out that in truth there's a spectrum of opinion, as there nearly always is. There were people in 1990 who didn't want us to return to the Valley, but to stay at Selhurst. I met them. Part of the spectrum will involve what is meant by "protest".
I was disappointed to read that you don't feel able to support Black and White, because it is asking only for RD to explain rationally how and why you are right to put your faith in him, in the face of evidence that his current strategy is in danger of failing. It does not call for him to leave. Personally I would not join a protest demanding he 'leave" because it is currently pointless. He is the 100% owner of a private business. He will exit when he decides that he wants to. We all need to face up to that uncomfortable truth. On the other hand the better CAFC is performing, the more he will get from any sale. That's where our interests coincide, and we can seek to persuade him of that. Only civilised, rational, two way dialogue will persuade him of that, though.
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It's an ego thing. I think he had publicity of owning a team in the Premier League he would want us to stay there. Perhaps I'm being niave?Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
What makes you say that Beds?Bedsaddick said:I think if we were a premier league side he could be great for our club.
I can't help thinking that if we fluked a promotion we would hurtle straight back down, because he probably won't invest in the better calibre of player required to compete at the higher level.0
