Should we not be honest & promise a route to the premiership to attract the very best young talent?
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Tbh I think that is exactly the current plan.alanalsace said:If my son had the talent of Gomez or Lookman then there is no way I would allow him to play at our Academy unless he had a good prospect of first team games and therefore a shop window for the bigger clubs. I know this is a sad reflection on CAFC but its reality. Payments to relegated premiership clubs next year could be as much as £100m - perhaps we all need to wake up a little.
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I think our differentiator should be that we develop good you players AND offer them chance of first team games, see Gomez, Poyet, Cousins, Shelvey, etc. This is especially true when you look at how many young players have come through and become first team regulars at Chelsea, Arsenal, West Ham, and Palace of late. I am also of the belief that promotion to the Premier League for a club of our size and means should be a far lower priority than ensuring Championship safety. I know there are a lot on here who feel we should be pushing for the Premier League year-on-year, but given the number of big money owners who have come in at the Championship level, we are unlikely to do that unless we are bought by one such owner with deep pockets, and joining the arms race can be a long term risk to the club (should said owners lose interest). QPR, Fulham, Forest, and Cardiff have all already massively overspent, and none of them will be promoted this year.
Where I take issue with what Katrien said in Dublin is that simply promoting young players, providing "the future stars of the Premier League," should not be the sum total of our ambition. The ability to bring in and fully develop such players is dependent on the standing of our first team, and it gets harder to attract and keep quality players in the long run if the first team performs poorly. Short of maybe Crewe Alexandria, a club cannot simply be a conveyor belt for producing young talent, especially in our catchment area.3 -
What like Charlton always have been; as have the vast majority of other clubs.alanalsace said:If my son had the talent of Gomez or Lookman then there is no way I would allow him to play at our Academy unless he had a good prospect of first team games and therefore a shop window for the bigger clubs. I know this is a sad reflection on CAFC but its reality. Payments to relegated premiership clubs next year could be as much as £100m - perhaps we all need to wake up a little.
Poor attempt to make Miere look a visionary!
What you need with it is a winning mentality throughout the club, where football progression is core. That is what the current owners fail on.10 -
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Another person who joined in October and this is their first post!
Too many of these at the moment17 -
that username is easily misreadalanalsace said:
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If my son had talent I'd want him to play for Charlton. If a better offer came in I'd be delighted for him and we would discuss. As much as I am a fan I would want whats best for him.
If there were a few offers from academies I'd put Charlton above all others though. Partly because I am a fan and partly because we have the history of introducing these into the first team. Despite what some may feel you could do a lot worse than the Charlton academy2 -
I'm not sure i understand the point you're making... it reads like a club statement.
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If my son had the talent of Morgan Fox or Nick Pope, I'd want him to be looked after properly, nurtured through the early stages of his career to ensure he achieved everything he was capable of. I certainly wouldn't want him chucked in at the deep end before he was ready because the owners were too tight to pay for a competetive squad. I also wouldn't want my son playing for a club that changes it's manager twice a season, that's hardly helpful for his development.alanalsace said:If my son had the talent of Gomez or Lookman then there is no way I would allow him to play at our Academy unless he had a good prospect of first team games and therefore a shop window for the bigger clubs. I know this is a sad reflection on CAFC but its reality. Payments to relegated premiership clubs next year could be as much as £100m - perhaps we all need to wake up a little.
Shelvey, Solly, Wagstaff, Elliot, Randolph, Fortune, Parker, Konchesky, Newton, Rufus, Brown, Minto, Leaburn, Lee, Walsh, etc, etc, etc - all came through the ranks at Charlton and went on to have successful careers. None were prevented from leaving when they wanted to, and none were given away as soon as they made it into the first team, unlike Gomez and probably Lookman.
Nice try Katrien, too thick again though.21 -
Who needs to wake up, and why exactly?alanalsace said:If my son had the talent of Gomez or Lookman then there is no way I would allow him to play at our Academy unless he had a good prospect of first team games and therefore a shop window for the bigger clubs. I know this is a sad reflection on CAFC but its reality. Payments to relegated premiership clubs next year could be as much as £100m - perhaps we all need to wake up a little.
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Anyone who is expecting that all our quality academy graduates will go onto to play their entire careers at Charlton is delusional.
There is nothing inherently controversial in the idea that we will sell some youth players. Its been done many times in the past for the overall good of the club - selling Lee and Minto helped get the club back to, and stabilised at, the Valley; Bowyer helped pay for the likes of Kinsella and Mendonca who helped get us promoted; Mills (a young player, not a Charlton graduate) helped keep the rest of that squad together after relegation laying the foundations for the period of on field success that followed; Jenkinson and Shelvey helped keep the club afloat and build the squad that got us back out of League 1.
The thing is, particularly in the cases of Bowyer and Jenkinson, the money was largely invested in the playing squad and other saleable youth players were retained to form part of the successful teams (Rufus, Newton, Solly for example). The controversy for the model, that KM's Dublin interview seemed to hint at, of raising these players purely to sell to the Premier League is it seems to omit any ambition for the improvement of Charlton's first team.
As far as using the fact we're willing to sell to the Premiership as a method for attracting youngsters, well we all know that if a player is really that good, and the Premier League club wants them enough then the move will happen and there is not a whole lot the Championship club can do except try and negotiate the best deal they can. In that respect we're not offering anything anyone else in the Championship (or soon to be League 1) doesn't, unless you are proposing the club acts more like the player's agent and starts actively pursuing their sale to the Premier League, even if they are maybe not quite ready/up to it. I hope you're not suggesting that as it would be mad.
If we want to get the edge when it comes to attracting young talent then we need to show that we have a) a good path to the first team for players who are good enough, b) a record of improving players before and after they hit the first team, c) have good quality facilities for them to train in, d) look after our players with other training and support outside of football (e.g. education etc.). At the moment I would say we do a pretty good job with our players until they hit the first team, but recently too many have been promoted too early to work with under qualified coaches who keep getting fired and replaced and in too many cases that has ended in the young player going backwards.6 -
As things stand, if I were the parent of a talented kid, Spurs look like the place to have a football education and get a shot at being eased in to a Premier league team.alanalsace said:If my son had the talent of Gomez or Lookman then there is no way I would allow him to play at our Academy unless he had a good prospect of first team games and therefore a shop window for the bigger clubs. I know this is a sad reflection on CAFC but its reality. Payments to relegated premiership clubs next year could be as much as £100m - perhaps we all need to wake up a little.
I'd have grave reservations about my kid joining Charlton, because they wouldn't be joining Charlton, they'd be joining the Duchatalet / Strapix network11 -
Start a new thread, post something pro-Roland, disappear again without contributing to the ensuing conversation. I reckon it's Palace Mandy from the ticket office - nobody's buying tickets so she's looking for other ways to fill the time. Hi Mandy, sorry the Eagles haven't won since December, at least your ticket office isn't an NHS Call Centre though.All_Thaid_Up said:Another person who joined in October and this is their first post!
Too many of these at the moment7 -
I thought her day would be spent rimming Katrien after that big spot of brown nosing during the Fans Forum.MrLargo said:
Start a new thread, post something pro-Roland, disappear again without contributing to the ensuing conversation. I reckon it's Palace Mandy from the ticket office - nobody's buying tickets so she's looking for other ways to fill the time. Hi Mandy, sorry the Eagles haven't won since December, at least your ticket office isn't an NHS Call Centre though.All_Thaid_Up said:Another person who joined in October and this is their first post!
Too many of these at the moment
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Yeah, I'd want my son playing until he fainted of exhaustion at half time (Jordan Cousins) or until a minor injury becomes something that rules him out for the best part of a season (Most of the others). I'd also think "You know what would be great? Getting him in to a Premier League club via League One.".
To sign your child up to the academy at Charlton right now would be madness, and the quality of kids that the academy wants will be able to attract offers from academies that form part of better run clubs. That's the sad fact of the matter; we could have the best resources available but whilst the club overall is a shambles then the best kids will be wise to go elsewhere.
Not to mention, we're going to have major problems getting decent senior players in to the club now - just like we will have major scouting issues. Even with the best academy this suggests we are liable to fall further down the football league, and appearances at League One/Two level mean nothing to a Premier League side.
This is exactly one area where the Staprix idea falls apart, and one idea that Katrien seems happy to keep throwing out there. It's yet another way in which our ownership are demonstrated as incapable, incompetent and deluded.13 -
I get your point but it's flawed. Every youngster will only get time for the first team if they're good enough for it. Lookman is a championship player therefore he gets championship game time and every team in the championship would give him that time. We've had a team full of youngsters in the shop window for a lot of this season (some of them not ready) and that is reflected by our league position (a lot of them aren't good enough yet). The only way we'll have a team like that and be competing is if we're in a lower league, which we will be next season.
If you have a kid who's as good as Lookman would you rather him playing for a league 1/2 first team or for the U21's at Derby for example. It's a hard question I guess. But every club nowadays is aware of every player no matter if they're in the first team or not.1 -
alanalsace this is, or damn well ought to be, the order of footballing priority.alanalsace said:If my son had the talent of Gomez or Lookman then there is no way I would allow him to play at our Academy unless he had a good prospect of first team games and therefore a shop window for the bigger clubs. I know this is a sad reflection on CAFC but its reality. Payments to relegated premiership clubs next year could be as much as £100m - perhaps we all need to wake up a little.
Number one; The overarching ambition and purpose for the existence of this football club is to try to win matches as best it can.
Number two The club must try to afford to do number one, if that has to mean shrewd and honourable churn of players in order to survive financially then fair enough.
Number ten million The club must grow young players in order to sell them on to the Premier League.10 -
It might also be honest to say to the fans who you want to come that the club has in itself no ambition to reach the Premier League. Every week every season for ever and ever no hope or inspiration. Remove that spark of hope that next season might just be the one and you might as well just pack up. If that's the vision you can poke it.7
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Is the plan to keep everybody on CL responding to so many of these KM instructed threads that we don't have time to protest?alanalsace said:If my son had the talent of Gomez or Lookman then there is no way I would allow him to play at our Academy unless he had a good prospect of first team games and therefore a shop window for the bigger clubs. I know this is a sad reflection on CAFC but its reality. Payments to relegated premiership clubs next year could be as much as £100m - perhaps we all need to wake up a little.
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I agree it's depressing that having to sell our young players amounts to a lack of ambition in terms of getting into the premiership but the truth is we were technically bankrupt before new owner came in. Our only other option is to attract some egotistical mug to gamble a minimum of £50m to get us into the premiership -
Any takers ?
Ps just like to post out that after the recent Brentford away win none of the players, other than Sanago really wanted to come and celebrate with the fans - telling don't you think16 - Sponsored links:
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Can we stop with this "Who else is there" dross pleasealanalsace said:I agree it's depressing that having to sell our young players amounts to a lack of ambition in terms of getting into the premiership but the truth is we were technically bankrupt before new owner came in. Our only other option is to attract some egotistical mug to gamble a minimum of £50m to get us into the premiership -
Any takers ?
Ps just like to post out that after the recent Brentford away win none of the players, other than Sanago really wanted to come and celebrate with the fans - telling don't you think11 -
Omg really ? You don't think that the nasty man with the funny accent told them not to ?alanalsace said:I agree it's depressing that having to sell our young players amounts to a lack of ambition in terms of getting into the premiership but the truth is we were technically bankrupt before new owner came in. Our only other option is to attract some egotistical mug to gamble a minimum of £50m to get us into the premiership -
Any takers ?
Ps just like to post out that after the recent Brentford away win none of the players, other than Sanago really wanted to come and celebrate with the fans - telling don't you think
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Joined today...first post digs fans18
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We can't exactly attract youngsters by offering them the hope of winning trophies with us. Why don't we offer them an automatic contract whether or not they're any good? Sort of everyone's a winner? Tell them that the owner doesn't care about winning games.0
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Having an owner and a board that care about the club and it's history, and have the club's best interests at heart, would be a good start.alanalsace said:I agree it's depressing that having to sell our young players amounts to a lack of ambition in terms of getting into the premiership but the truth is we were technically bankrupt before new owner came in. Our only other option is to attract some egotistical mug to gamble a minimum of £50m to get us into the premiership -
Any takers ?
Ps just like to post out that after the recent Brentford away win none of the players, other than Sanago really wanted to come and celebrate with the fans - telling don't you think
Instead, we an eccentric absentee politician owner that believes himself to be a visionary up there with Alan Turing, a CEO who goes out of her way to bait fans and admits to journalists that she doesn't care about pre-Roland history, and a COO who wants to ban supporters from the ground (and possibly turn the ground in to a residential complex instead).
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Can we open a book on who this group of recent posters are please ?
List of runners and riders:
Palace fans
Spanners
Club employees
Squirrel Face
RD (Burns of Belgium)
S.Parkes0 -
Or maybe @alan dugdale they could be both club employees and Palace fans, and have peculiar "woman-crush" on Katrien1
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The "egotistical mugs" at QPR wrote off £50 million of debt the club owed them by converting it to equity (i.e. more shares on paper in a club they already owned). The ruthless Leicester owners wrote off £100 million in the same way. There are other examples. Any takers? Yes, there certainly are.alanalsace said:Our only other option is to attract some egotistical mug to gamble a minimum of £50m to get us into the premiership -
Any takers ?
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We are winning ...these are desperation tactics9
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Instead, we have an egotistical mug that gets Charlton to borrow off of another company that he owns. I kind of see Strapix like a loan shark, might not be money owed to a bank but it's still an owed debtMountsfieldPark said:
The "egotistical mugs" at QPR wrote off £50 million of debt the club owed them by converting it to equity (i.e. more shares on paper in a club they already owned). The ruthless Leicester owners wrote off £100 million in the same way. There are other examples. Any takers? Yes, there certainly are.alanalsace said:Our only other option is to attract some egotistical mug to gamble a minimum of £50m to get us into the premiership -
Any takers ?2
