What relegation means to us (Financially)
There is an excellent website on Financial Fair play financialfairplay.co.uk/ which gives details of the rules we will need to abide by next year, known as the Salary Cost and Management Protocol (SCMP)
SCMP states that a club cannot spend more than 60% of its turnover on wages. The club has to submit monthly forecasts with a transfer embargo on anyone going over. There are transitional arrangements for relegated clubs, which allow you to exclude the wages of players signed prior to the September of the relegation season, but only if they were on contracts of 3 years or more.
Our 2014 accounts showed the following figures for Turnover, Wages and losses. If anyone has the 2015 version please post them up.
Turnover £12.7m
Wages £10.4m
Loss 5.7m
I'd be interested if anyone can ferret out the difference in TV money between Championship and League 1, as this will impact turnover. Obviously non renewal of sponsorship and season tickets will also impact the number.
On 2014 figures we would need to cut £2.8m from the wage bill before you even account for the drop in turnover. If this is say £3m that means another 1.8m will need to be cut. Potentially we could go into next season having to halve our wage bill, in order to be able to sign players.
Its easy to see that there is potentially going to be a fire sale in order to get wage costs down. Players will be moved on for financial not footballing reasons and if we fail in this we could end up being unable to plug gaps in an unbalanced squad. This where we were with the Pardew/Parkinson/Zabeel fiasco the last time we were relegated from the Championship. If that happens its easy to see that a double relegation is a distinct possibility. In my view thoughts of bouncing straight back up with the backbone of the current squad are well wide of the mark.
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To be honest i don't really care. Only when those idiots are gone will i start to.8
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This should be a good discussion, and personally I'm inclined to think a double relegation is a possibility - and that's not even for purely financial reasons.
As was mentioned in another thread, there's also the issue that the squad we leave the transfer windows with next season cannot be strengthened with emergency loans next season either.
In essence that means one of the best strategies would be a fire sale - completely gutting the squad - and rebuilding with lower league players who have experience at that level and have wage expectations appropriate for that level. Unfortunately, I think the player recruitment next year could be something which is very easy to underestimate and misjudge, and based on recent situations I must admit I see this as a distinct possibility.
Misjudging the recruitment during our first season back in League One, having difficulties keeping the budget down and being unable to rely upon the emergency loan market would be - as far as I'm concerned - relegation circumstances.
Which is frustrating with the likes of Tex and Johnson coming in during Jan/Feb on long contracts.Imnot Athletic said:SCMP states that a club cannot spend more than 60% of its turnover on wages. The club has to submit monthly forecasts with a transfer embargo on anyone going over. There are transitional arrangements for relegated clubs, which allow you to exclude the wages of players signed prior to the September of the relegation season, but only if they were on contracts of 3 years or more.
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Ask our visionary leader I'm sure he's got it sussed,but should he still be in doubt..I think we are proper fucked
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Anoraks Ahoy!
PWR at the moment but will come back to this as it's something that interests me greatly, particularly the MASSIVE gap between L1 and relegated Prem sides.1 -
thisLuckyReds said:This should be a good discussion, and personally I'm inclined to think a double relegation is a possibility - and that's not even for purely financial reasons.
As was mentioned in another thread, there's also the issue that the squad we leave the transfer windows with next season cannot be strengthened with emergency loans next season either.
In essence that means one of the best strategies would be a fire sale - completely gutting the squad - and rebuilding with lower league players who have experience at that level and have wage expectations appropriate for that level. Unfortunately, I think the player recruitment next year could be something which is very easy to underestimate and misjudge, and based on recent situations I must admit I see this as a distinct possibility.
Misjudging the recruitment during our first season back in League One, having difficulties keeping the budget down and being unable to rely upon the emergency loan market would be - as far as I'm concerned - relegation circumstances.
Which is frustrating with the likes of Tex and Johnson coming in during Jan/Feb on long contracts.Imnot Athletic said:SCMP states that a club cannot spend more than 60% of its turnover on wages. The club has to submit monthly forecasts with a transfer embargo on anyone going over. There are transitional arrangements for relegated clubs, which allow you to exclude the wages of players signed prior to the September of the relegation season, but only if they were on contracts of 3 years or more.
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Most of our "big" signings were on long contracts so would be covered by the transitional arrangements. Johnson was only 18 months, while Tex will probably leave, though would be a great asset next season, he'd boss L1 strikersLuckyReds said:This should be a good discussion, and personally I'm inclined to think a double relegation is a possibility - and that's not even for purely financial reasons.
As was mentioned in another thread, there's also the issue that the squad we leave the transfer windows with next season cannot be strengthened with emergency loans next season either.
In essence that means one of the best strategies would be a fire sale - completely gutting the squad - and rebuilding with lower league players who have experience at that level and have wage expectations appropriate for that level. Unfortunately, I think the player recruitment next year could be something which is very easy to underestimate and misjudge, and based on recent situations I must admit I see this as a distinct possibility.
Misjudging the recruitment during our first season back in League One, having difficulties keeping the budget down and being unable to rely upon the emergency loan market would be - as far as I'm concerned - relegation circumstances.
Which is frustrating with the likes of Tex and Johnson coming in during Jan/Feb on long contracts.Imnot Athletic said:SCMP states that a club cannot spend more than 60% of its turnover on wages. The club has to submit monthly forecasts with a transfer embargo on anyone going over. There are transitional arrangements for relegated clubs, which allow you to exclude the wages of players signed prior to the September of the relegation season, but only if they were on contracts of 3 years or more.
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don't discuss this! it will help the regime!
You have already provided more information than they would ever learn alone!4 -
What are you talking about!C4FC4L1f3 said:don't discuss this! it will help the regime!
You have already provided more information than they would ever learn alone!0 -
They will have to sell the sofa.13
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In 2013 there was a £3.1m gulf between League 1 and Championships but I anticipate that this is larger now.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/league-one-play-off-final-yeovil-and-brentford-chase-31m-cash-injection-8621839.html1 -
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It's a good job that Roland doesn't do failure then.0
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I hope it's insured...just in case something nasty happens to itc4fcdenmark said:They will have to sell the sofa.
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They will cover the loss by selling JBG and the owner will pocket revenue from the other sales of which I'm sure there will be quite a few - any that will command a decent fee I assume. Financially it won't hurt him as bad as some might think. He isn't getting anymore of my money, that's for sure.0
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Something nasty already has. It's had to watch every minute of every home game this season!addick1965 said:
I hope it's insured...just in case something nasty happens to itc4fcdenmark said:They will have to sell the sofa.
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Some rudantcies probably 0
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The three year rule means, I think, anyone in September on a contract to 2018 and beyond. I assume renegotiation of contracts starts the clock ticking from the new contract point which is why Lookman isn't on the list, though I may have missed others
Nick Pope 2018
Patrick Bauer 2019
Naby Sarr 2020
Harry Lennon 2018
Morgan Fox 2018
Tareiq Holmes-Dennis 2018
Jóhann Berg Guðmundsson 2019
Jordan Cousins 2019
Ahmed Kashi 2018
El-Hadji Ba 2018
Cristian Ceballos 2018
Zakarya Bergdich 2019
Igor Vetokele 2019
Mikhail Kennedy 2018
Short term this could be good news but it could also lead to a reluctance to renew contracts as this will put them into the "current" pot.0 -
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Not defending Roland, but it's unfair to talk about him "pocketing" revenue from the sales of players when the club is losing several million a year anyway. If he kept the JBG money, for example, all it would do is reduce the money the club owes him! That's the crazy reality of football finances at the moment.MuttleyCAFC said:They will cover the loss by selling JBG and the owner will pocket revenue from the other sales of which I'm sure there will be quite a few - any that will command a decent fee I assume. Financially it won't hurt him as bad as some might think. He isn't getting anymore of my money, that's for sure.
As for the players under contract, a lot depends of what wages they're on. JBG and Cousins were given new deals to stay, as they only had 1 year left on their contracts, I imagine these would be quite good contracts, similarly the likes of Igor, Watt, Kashi and Tex who were all established first team players when we signed them. Possible also Sarr, seeing that we bought him from Lisbon and Bergdych...
The likes of Ba and Ceballos would probably be on smaller wages, seeing that they weren't established players when we signed them1 -
Chris Parkes said that some players have relegation clauses in their contracts leading to a reduction in wages.4
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Park bench in Non league along with a bottle of White lightening in a brown paper bag.SuedeAdidas said:1 -
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The Kenny Sansom suite!1StevieG said:
Park bench in Non league along with a bottle of White lightening in a brown paper bag.SuedeAdidas said:4 -
Imnot, I'm assuming the 60% rule is based on turnover recorded for the previous year?
I don't want to be negative and take your thread in a direction you didn't intend it to go, but I can see very little positive. The below is purely my own conjecture, but interested in any differing viewpoints.
Lets just assume that Roland now currently wants to sell, but 3-4 months down the line has come no closer to negotiating a sale because what he wants in return remains poles apart to what anyone is prepared to offer.
His approach in knowing that this is not going to remain a long-term project for him will be to a. slash his costs by as much as possible, or b. try and reduce losses by recouping as much from the valued sale of players currently under contract. Or a mix of 1 and 2. At Liege, they had a number of high profile sales before he offloaded the club.
Either way, I can't foresee a squad for next season that has anything other than even greater bolstered than this season in academy products, supplemented with cheap overseas imports to a lesser quality than the ones we have now.
Unless the quality of rookie youngsters breaking through takes everyone by surprise (having seen the U21s last week I doubt that), I don't see how we will have a squad for next season anywhere near good enough to compete, particularly if injuries kick in, and with a wage bill more than 50% of its current level, if Roland cannot agree a sale.4 -
Next season we will be a smaller club than STVV in his eyes - so we will become Liege. has anyone thought about that?
I expect all our top players to be "passed" to them.0 -
Depends if its in their Contracts and if they choose to go there though...C4FC4L1f3 said:Next season we will be a smaller club than STVV in his eyes - so we will become Liege. has anyone thought about that?
I expect all our top players to be "passed" to them.0 -
Do you think that was also the case at liege when we were sent players?ForeverAddickted said:
Depends if its in their Contracts and if they choose to go there though...C4FC4L1f3 said:Next season we will be a smaller club than STVV in his eyes - so we will become Liege. has anyone thought about that?
I expect all our top players to be "passed" to them.
They will do what Roland wants.2 -
He will sell anyone and everyone that can be sold, or off-loaded from the wage bill. It is his only way of exiting from the club without enormous losses (as nobody will pay him the total value of his "loans" since he bought into CAFC). Anyone who cannot be sold by the end of August will be loaned out; that may well be - as C4FC4L1f3 says - be to STVV if nobody else is mug enough to want the likes of Sarr, Ba, and Bergdich...AFKABartram said:
His approach in knowing that this is not going to remain a long-term project for him will be to a. slash his costs by as much as possible, or b. try and reduce losses by recouping as much from the valued sale of players currently under contract. Or a mix of 1 and 2. At Liege, they had a number of high profile sales before he offloaded the club.1 -
Yeah werent there a number of players who were supposed to join us who said No?C4FC4L1f3 said:
Do you think that was also the case at liege when we were sent players?ForeverAddickted said:
Depends if its in their Contracts and if they choose to go there though...C4FC4L1f3 said:Next season we will be a smaller club than STVV in his eyes - so we will become Liege. has anyone thought about that?
I expect all our top players to be "passed" to them.
They will do what Roland wants.
They wont do anything Roland wants because its called a legal Contract, if he tries to get a player to do something they dont want to do and its not in there, then there is sod all he can do about it.
Its like any employment Contract, if yours says that you work for X Company from London (etc.) then thats where you work, if your boss says to you one day, I want you to be based from Edinburgh then there is nothing they can do if you say no.
Do I see players leaving us to join STVV in the summer... Yes
Do I see our top players leaving us to join STVV in the summer ... No
Do I see fringe players we cant get off our books joining STVV in the summer (Bergdich etc.) ... Quite possibly2 -
@Imnot Athletic the income difference between the two leagues equates to around the £6.5 - 7 million mark. This takes into account reductions in TV income, lower season and match day ticket revenue, reduction in sponsorships and match day hospitality income and lower concourse and retail income on match days.
Clearly relegation should be avoided at all costs, however unfortunately this is almost certainly going to happen this season.
The last time the club were in league one a comprehensive plan was put in place to ensure the club would return to the championship, the plan was devised and implemented by Peter Varney and Steve Kavanagh, who had a very competent senior management team in place across both the football and non football activities at the club.
I hope that a similar plan is already in place for next season, although I fear that this may not be the case with this regime.
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Teixera is an obvious one to head back to Belgium as with all the rumours & hints about RD still having involvement at Liege makes me wonder if his transfer to us had more in common with the transfers of players like Reza, Tucudean & Watt then a more regular transfer.0
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Basically where I think everyone will end up who isnt here on loan.
Henderson ... Championship | Dmitrovic ... Europe | Bauer ... Germany / Portugal | Teixeira ... United States | Motta ... Italy | Johnson ... Who cares | Sarr ... Greece / Network / France | Gudmundsson ... Championship / Europe | Diarra ... France / Retire | Kashi ... France | Ceballos ... Network | Bergdich ... Network | Watt ... Championship | Tucudean ... Free Transfer | Vetokele ... Belgium0
