CARD Statements for Todays Actions

Arsenetatters said:

se9addick said:

Arsenetatters said:

SDAddick said:

Today's protests aren't for me, the camel outfits are a bit racist for my taste

We met 3 blokes from Dubai who didn't take offence at all. They wondered what it was all about and then shook our hands.

Actually Arabs from Dubai ? At the match ? Takeover stuff perhaps...?

outside the West stand - if they buy us I shall never wash the hand I shook them with. In fact I am keeping it dry in a plastic bag just in case

Depends which hand it was? Was it your cack hand?

To clarify something I said earlier, my issue was with the re-appropriation or a caricature of a culture, and that is often demeaning to said culture. When I mentioned privilege, it is not one that is measured in wealth, but one measured within their role within the society in which they're being lampooned, in this case British society. I think we can all agree that this is a much lower standing than one simply measured in wealth.

One of the more extreme examples of this, at least within the US, is people dressing up in black face. This is harking back to both a racist form of entertainment, and also a time when black people were subjective to white people--a comparison I think we could make with former colonies in the middle east (a people being subjugated, not the representative act itself).

I DO NOT equate the dressing up today to black face, and I don't believe it was intended to be offensive (to anyone bar the regime, and I don't think they care). I was stating a feeling I had upon seeing the pictures.

I'm sorry so many posts on here ended up being about this, hopefully we can all agree that what constitutes satire and what constitutes racism is not something that should be discussed on the CARD protest thread, and certainly not something we'll solve on an internet message board. I'd like to withdraw my comments from earlier, and instead point to what I've written above here and say "this is what I was thinking." It's also probably worth noting that despite having lived in England, and SE7 in particular, and despite having many friends from and in the UK, I am from a different culture, and it's something I sometimes forget but should add in this situation as there are different cultural meanings and responses to such things. If there is a burning desire to do so we can pick this up on another thread, otherwise, thank you for reading and I'll shut up and get off my soapbox now.

Stig said:

SDAddick said:

To clarify something I said earlier, my issue was with the re-appropriation or a caricature of a culture, and that is often demeaning to said culture. When I mentioned privilege, it is not one that is measured in wealth, but one measured within their role within the society in which they're being lampooned, in this case British society. I think we can all agree that this is a much lower standing than one simply measured in wealth.

One of the more extreme examples of this, at least within the US, is people dressing up in black face. This is harking back to both a racist form of entertainment, and also a time when black people were subjective to white people--a comparison I think we could make with former colonies in the middle east (a people being subjugated, not the representative act itself).

I DO NOT equate the dressing up today to black face, and I don't believe it was intended to be offensive (to anyone bar the regime, and I don't think they care). I was stating a feeling I had upon seeing the pictures.

I'm sorry so many posts on here ended up being about this, hopefully we can all agree that what constitutes satire and what constitutes racism is not something that should be discussed on the CARD protest thread, and certainly not something we'll solve on an internet message board. I'd like to withdraw my comments from earlier, and instead point to what I've written above here and say "this is what I was thinking." It's also probably worth noting that despite having lived in England, and SE7 in particular, and despite having many friends from and in the UK, I am from a different culture, and it's something I sometimes forget but should add in this situation as there are different cultural meanings and responses to such things. If there is a burning desire to do so we can pick this up on another thread, otherwise, thank you for reading and I'll shut up and get off my soapbox now.

If you think the joke is about the culture of the local people, you have completely missed the point. The joke is that camel riding is something that people do on holiday in Dubai.

Just take a look at this:

https://www.getyourguide.co.uk/dubai-l173/heritage-camel-safari-t47211/

and this:

https://www.platinum-heritage.com/heritage-collection-desertsafaridubai/heritage-camel-safari

and this:

http://www.viator.com/tours/Dubai/Luxury-Desert-Experience-Camel-Safari-with-Dinner-and-Emirati-Activities-with-Transport-from-Dubai/d828-6183CAMELSAFARI

To argue that today's fancy dress parade is racist is not only ridiculous but risks undermining the anti-racist cause. Such outlandish claims make people sceptical even when genuine claims of racism are made.

I genuinely did not know that, nor did I realize that people wear the dishdasha (sp?). I apologize, I was wrong on this.

Arsenetatters said:

SDAddick said:

Today's protests aren't for me, the camel outfits are a bit racist for my taste

We met 3 blokes from Dubai who didn't take offence at all. They wondered what it was all about and then shook our hands.

You met my wealthy cousin? He never told me he was going! ;-)

lordromford said:

To be fair, I understood your point, but it was misguided and, as @Stig said, frivolous claims of racism only hurt the anti-racism cause.
But at the end of the day @SDAddick - it takes a brave and noble person to stand up and admit to being wrong. Kudos for that.

Thank you, that means a lot. I have no concept as to what a holiday in Dubai consists of, and interpreted things completely incorrectly. In future I will try to ask questions before making blanket statements.

StewieGriffinSE7 said:

I'm guessing once we are officially relegated, the next step is getting a game abandoned at the valley be it against Brighton or Burnley

Or it's another double bluff and 1 drunk guy ends up banned

SDAddick said:

Stig said:

SDAddick said:

To clarify something I said earlier, my issue was with the re-appropriation or a caricature of a culture, and that is often demeaning to said culture. When I mentioned privilege, it is not one that is measured in wealth, but one measured within their role within the society in which they're being lampooned, in this case British society. I think we can all agree that this is a much lower standing than one simply measured in wealth.

One of the more extreme examples of this, at least within the US, is people dressing up in black face. This is harking back to both a racist form of entertainment, and also a time when black people were subjective to white people--a comparison I think we could make with former colonies in the middle east (a people being subjugated, not the representative act itself).

I DO NOT equate the dressing up today to black face, and I don't believe it was intended to be offensive (to anyone bar the regime, and I don't think they care). I was stating a feeling I had upon seeing the pictures.

I'm sorry so many posts on here ended up being about this, hopefully we can all agree that what constitutes satire and what constitutes racism is not something that should be discussed on the CARD protest thread, and certainly not something we'll solve on an internet message board. I'd like to withdraw my comments from earlier, and instead point to what I've written above here and say "this is what I was thinking." It's also probably worth noting that despite having lived in England, and SE7 in particular, and despite having many friends from and in the UK, I am from a different culture, and it's something I sometimes forget but should add in this situation as there are different cultural meanings and responses to such things. If there is a burning desire to do so we can pick this up on another thread, otherwise, thank you for reading and I'll shut up and get off my soapbox now.

If you think the joke is about the culture of the local people, you have completely missed the point. The joke is that camel riding is something that people do on holiday in Dubai.

Just take a look at this:

https://www.getyourguide.co.uk/dubai-l173/heritage-camel-safari-t47211/

and this:

https://www.platinum-heritage.com/heritage-collection-desertsafaridubai/heritage-camel-safari

and this:

http://www.viator.com/tours/Dubai/Luxury-Desert-Experience-Camel-Safari-with-Dinner-and-Emirati-Activities-with-Transport-from-Dubai/d828-6183CAMELSAFARI

To argue that today's fancy dress parade is racist is not only ridiculous but risks undermining the anti-racist cause. Such outlandish claims make people sceptical even when genuine claims of racism are made.

I genuinely did not know that, nor did I realize that people wear the dishdasha (sp?). I apologize, I was wrong on this.

Fair play SDAddick. I admire your spirit of being anti-racist and for holding your hand up.

Whilst we're bathing in the warm waters of conciliation, I would say sorry if the tone of my post was a little strong. Looking back, I reckon I could have made the same point with half the adjectives. Apologies.

J BLOCK said:

Not a fan of yesterday, we need hard hitting actions not to trivialise what is a dire situation.

I think that misses the point that one of the things a self-important incompetent like Miere (or a self-declared ‘visionary’ like Duchatelet) would probably find most difficult to deal with is ridicule….

micks1950 said:

J BLOCK said:

Not a fan of yesterday, we need hard hitting actions not to trivialise what is a dire situation.

I think that misses the point that one of the things a self-important incompetent like Miere (or a self-declared ‘visionary’ like Duchatelet) would probably find most difficult to deal with is ridicule….

Agree with that, i think she has got off very lightly so far.
Gender should be irrelevant. Replace 'Roland out' with 'Miere out' and take the smirk off of her face.

andynelson said:

A few blokes decided to dress up as camels. A bit of fun for them, maybe, but I didn't even see them, and as far as I'm concerned there was no protest at all, which is disappointing to say the least.

despite leading a sheltered life, some of them camels certainly weren't blokes.

Dedicating the entire game to chanting against the regime as we are now down?
Mass walk out?
Protest behind the west stand?
All the protesters infiltrating the west stand for the Brighton match?

Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)

So apart from a few people having a bit of a jolly in fancy dress did anything actually happen yesterday? There I was thinking we were all taking the fight against the regime seriously.

Norfolk_Addick said:

kentred2 said:

Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)

People have donated £20k+ to CARD. It's not unreasonable to expect them to lead and act.

Do both. Donate and support CARD, and act directly old style in the ground.