The Battle of the East Stand
Comments
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Why did they let the Burnley supporters on but assult the Charlton ones.one Burnley fan just walked past four stewards who made no attempt to stop him2
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Thing is they think these tactics are smart and intimidate, it can all go so wrong and I'm surprised it didn't.
Benfica fans dealing with an over hyped set of bully boy police
https://youtu.be/jagvYIMJyzU 12 -
While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.11 -
This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.10 -
It wasn't just the met, City of London police were being used.alan dugdale said:
This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.0 -
The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.alan dugdale said:
This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.1 -
There was Bovril and blankets everywhere..5
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x0
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But my point is, they treated one set of fans differently to the other.iainment said:
The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.alan dugdale said:
This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.2 -
Hoorah, we did our bit in the West Upper!razil said:There was Bovril and blankets everywhere..
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To be fair they were tasked with keeping the Charlton fans off the pitch. The officers at the North Stand would not have been invited to ignore their 'orders' if Burnley fans decided to enter the pitch in very large numbers.alan dugdale said:
But my point is, they treated one set of fans differently to the other.iainment said:
The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.alan dugdale said:
This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.
Two wrongs don't make a right. They did try to keep the Burnley fans in the South Stand but they failed that is not, automatically, justification to allow the Charlton fans onto the pitch too. It's not as though they were handing out sweets and gave an unfair amount to one set of children at the expense of another set.
If fans complained to the Police what would the argument be?.... While we were trying to break the law someone else committed a similar crime and the Police refused to step aside to make it easier for us to break the law? The Police have an obligation to prevent crime - all crime. Would we be happy for the Police to allow someone to break into our house and steal our stuff because down the road someone else has had their house burgled?
I'm sure I will be accused of making a silly comparison and, like Henry, I was appalled at the treatment of some of our fans by the Stewards, but I just think we are going to struggle to prove that the Police should have stepped aside to allow Charlton fans to rush onto the pitch because they'd failed to stop the Burnley fans.2 -
And I quite clearly stated that I don't think it justifies some of the stewards and police behaviouralan dugdale said:
This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.1 -
Perhaps there should now be a specific place for actual allegations to be collated. I suspect that not many will want to persue action but some might.
If nothing else it could be used to present to the club and others exactly what took place to emphasise just how unacceptable the actions were.
Perhaps the press might even pick it up. We are after all well acknowledged as being a very placid set of fans.1 -
I disagree that they tried to keep the Burnley fans off the pitch.kings hill addick said:
To be fair they were tasked with keeping the Charlton fans off the pitch. The officers at the North Stand would not have been invited to ignore their 'orders' if Burnley fans decided to enter the pitch in very large numbers.alan dugdale said:
But my point is, they treated one set of fans differently to the other.iainment said:
The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.alan dugdale said:
This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.
Two wrongs don't make a right. They did try to keep the Burnley fans in the South Stand but they failed that is not, automatically, justification to allow the Charlton fans onto the pitch too. It's not as though they were handing out sweets and gave an unfair amount to one set of children at the expense of another set.
If fans complained to the Police what would the argument be?.... While we were trying to break the law someone else committed a similar crime and the Police refused to step aside to make it easier for us to break the law? The Police have an obligation to prevent crime - all crime. Would we be happy for the Police to allow someone to break into our house and steal our stuff because down the road someone else has had their house burgled?
I'm sure I will be accused of making a silly comparison and, like Henry, I was appalled at the treatment of some of our fans by the Stewards, but I just think we are going to struggle to prove that the Police should have stepped aside to allow Charlton fans to rush onto the pitch because they'd failed to stop the Burnley fans.3 -
I agree with this plan but I think the press would be unlikely to challenge the authorities where an adult clearly broke the law. If an under 16 was manhandled and suffered a serious injury then maybe, but I think anything other than that would attract little support.ShootersHillGuru said:Perhaps there should now be a specific place for actual allegations to be collated. I suspect that not many will want to persue action but some might.
If nothing else it could be used to present to the club and others exactly what took place to emphasise just how unacceptable the actions were.
Perhaps the press might even pick it up. We are after all well acknowledged as being a very placid set of fans.1 -
The police were probably even more determined to keep the Charlton fans off the pitch once the Burnley fans were on. We all know that the atmosphere wasn't violent in this instance - but they would probably see it as having the potential for two sets of fans clashing, and that would be very difficult to contain.
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My understanding is that there were a lot of incidents that happened within the confines of the stands. Nothing to do with the pitch.kings hill addick said:
I agree with this plan but I think the press would be unlikely to challenge the authorities where an adult clearly broke the law. If an under 16 was manhandled and suffered a serious injury then maybe, but I think anything other than that would attract little support.ShootersHillGuru said:Perhaps there should now be a specific place for actual allegations to be collated. I suspect that not many will want to persue action but some might.
If nothing else it could be used to present to the club and others exactly what took place to emphasise just how unacceptable the actions were.
Perhaps the press might even pick it up. We are after all well acknowledged as being a very placid set of fans.
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Hallelujah!! What did we expect them to do? Stand back and let that gaggle of 30+ or so in the NWQ get on the pitch and potentially confront the Burnley fans, thus probably causing more disorder? They were hardly going to stand back and let those involved get on and confront opposition fans.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.
They have had weeks of protests/disruptions and in the build up to this game they would have monitored all forums/sites/feeds etc and judged it to be an ever higher risk game as it was the last of the season.
You know what, if you didn't want them to act in a 'heavy handed' (bless) manner then don't try and break the law!! It ain't rocket science. And if you do (understandably) want to cause bit of grief and disruption accept the consequences!!
Loads of OTT reaction on this forum at present following yesterday's events!!3 -
Wait till they realise an Italian mob raided the Bank of England bullion vaults over the weekend while we occupied them at the Valley and made their escape using souped up green, white and red Fiat 500sguinnessaddick said:
It wasn't just the met, City of London police were being used.alan dugdale said:
This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.3 -
Well tell that to those where excessive force was used. Particularly to those that had issues in the stairwells and other areas of the stadium where they had broken no laws.bazjonster said:
Hallelujah!! What did we expect them to do? Stand back and let that gaggle of 30+ or so in the NWQ get on the pitch and potentially confront the Burnley fans, thus probably causing more disorder? They were hardly going to stand back and let those involved get on and confront opposition fans.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.
They have had weeks of protests/disruptions and in the build up to this game they would have monitored all forums/sites/feeds etc and judged it to be an ever higher risk game as it was the last of the season.
You know what, if you didn't want them to act in a 'heavy handed' (bless) manner then don't try and break the law!! It ain't rocket science. And if you do (understandably) want to cause bit of grief and disruption accept the consequences!!
Loads of OTT reaction on this forum at present following yesterday's events!!
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Beat me to it ...absolutelyShootersHillGuru said:
Well tell that to those where excessive force was used. Particularly to those that had issues in the stairwells and other areas of the stadium where they had broken no laws.bazjonster said:
Hallelujah!! What did we expect them to do? Stand back and let that gaggle of 30+ or so in the NWQ get on the pitch and potentially confront the Burnley fans, thus probably causing more disorder? They were hardly going to stand back and let those involved get on and confront opposition fans.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.
They have had weeks of protests/disruptions and in the build up to this game they would have monitored all forums/sites/feeds etc and judged it to be an ever higher risk game as it was the last of the season.
You know what, if you didn't want them to act in a 'heavy handed' (bless) manner then don't try and break the law!! It ain't rocket science. And if you do (understandably) want to cause bit of grief and disruption accept the consequences!!
Loads of OTT reaction on this forum at present following yesterday's events!!2 -
So what is the chain of command that set the blue jackets and police on the Charlton fans? Murray Mire Cahones Everret guy who just retired?0
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I don't think anyone would expect to walk onto the pitch unchallenged. That isn't the point. The point is what I witnessed was in no-way "reasonable" and in everyway excessive.
Cheapshot punches, headlocks, kids restrained, people pushed down flights of stairs for not moving quickly enough and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
There was a concerted effort to "deal" with home fans. Anyone claiming that Burnley fans were treated equally is deluded.
I have no doubt that the behaviour of the Blue Brigade was under orders. I'm sure we can all guess which member of the SMT would be happy for a group of hired thugs to do his dirty work for him. He needs to be held accountable and shown up to be the pathetic incompetent coward that he is.
The Football League statement is an insult and I'd urge anyone afftected to contact the Football Supporters Association as they will assist.18 -
I agree but think speeding rather than house breaking would have been a better anology.kings hill addick said:
To be fair they were tasked with keeping the Charlton fans off the pitch. The officers at the North Stand would not have been invited to ignore their 'orders' if Burnley fans decided to enter the pitch in very large numbers.alan dugdale said:
But my point is, they treated one set of fans differently to the other.iainment said:
The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.alan dugdale said:
This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.
Two wrongs don't make a right. They did try to keep the Burnley fans in the South Stand but they failed that is not, automatically, justification to allow the Charlton fans onto the pitch too. It's not as though they were handing out sweets and gave an unfair amount to one set of children at the expense of another set.
If fans complained to the Police what would the argument be?.... While we were trying to break the law someone else committed a similar crime and the Police refused to step aside to make it easier for us to break the law? The Police have an obligation to prevent crime - all crime. Would we be happy for the Police to allow someone to break into our house and steal our stuff because down the road someone else has had their house burgled?
I'm sure I will be accused of making a silly comparison and, like Henry, I was appalled at the treatment of some of our fans by the Stewards, but I just think we are going to struggle to prove that the Police should have stepped aside to allow Charlton fans to rush onto the pitch because they'd failed to stop the Burnley fans.
And it's the Jimmy Seed Stand : - )
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Saw and experienced some very good and very poor policing/stewarding yesterday. I was most concerned at how antagonistic some stewards were and it was obvious they were trying to incite trouble from fans. Some of the stuff I had said to me was ridiculous at the South stand car park, to the point where you could tell they were just hoping to get a reaction, so they could wade in.
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Loads of informative reportage on this forum at present following yesterday's events!!bazjonster said:
Hallelujah!! What did we expect them to do? Stand back and let that gaggle of 30+ or so in the NWQ get on the pitch and potentially confront the Burnley fans, thus probably causing more disorder? They were hardly going to stand back and let those involved get on and confront opposition fans.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.
They have had weeks of protests/disruptions and in the build up to this game they would have monitored all forums/sites/feeds etc and judged it to be an ever higher risk game as it was the last of the season.
You know what, if you didn't want them to act in a 'heavy handed' (bless) manner then don't try and break the law!! It ain't rocket science. And if you do (understandably) want to cause bit of grief and disruption accept the consequences!!
Loads of OTT reaction on this forum at present following yesterday's events!!0 -
Totally agree Henry. It was a game, we won admirably and I personally think we should let sleeping dogs lie.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.
My only caveat to that is where individual stewards clearly overstepped the line. But clearly they were all under instruction to stop home fans getting on the pitch and common sense doesn't always prevail in the middle of it all. Like the idiot steward chasing a home fan into the crowd of Burnley on the pitch.2 -
Can you elaborate. ?mart77 said:Saw and experienced some very good and very poor policing/stewarding yesterday. I was most concerned at how antagonistic some stewards were and it was obvious they were trying to incite trouble from fans. Some of the stuff I had said to me was ridiculous at the South stand car park, to the point where you could tell they were just hoping to get a reaction, so they could wade in.
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Had a couple of idiots tell me I was going to get arrested and dragged away by police, one questioned what would happen to my son who was with me 'when I was removed' and an absolute cnut of a female steward (who was later in front of the North) said that all us fans were a disgrace and deserved what was happening. Thankfully I'm used to people trying to get a negative response from me so I didn't let it bother me. Mick E, who knows me came and chatted, as did a very sound copper who said it wasn't a problem. (I gave him the fan programme to fill him in on some of what's been going on) Some on here know I've not been well lately so I was planning to have a quieter day yesterday!5
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Who the club didn't care about, who pose no ongoing threat. The club organised the policing on the basis that Charlton fans are their enemy. And the police did as told by the money.alan dugdale said:
But my point is, they treated one set of fans differently to the other.iainment said:
The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.alan dugdale said:
This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.Henry Irving said:While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.
We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.
We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
Wasn't that the point?
Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.
Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.2
