The 20 foot fence

RugbyAddick · May 2016

I apologise in advance if this already has a thread of its own - however, I feel as if it deserves one. This is a rant and do tell me if I've gone OTT.

One of the biggest news stories in the last fortnight has been regarding an incident in football 27 years ago whereby 96 football fans lost their lives and many more were injured. Some of the most horrifying pictures are the ones of people climbing over others and over the fences in order to try and get from the stands onto the pitch.

This massive incident changed the way football grounds were planned and this involves removing all barriers between supporters and the pitch in order to prevent incidents such as the Hillsborough disaster occurring again.

The fact a fence was erected across the whole of the north stand on Saturday is outrageous and must've broken health and safety regulations. It blocked escape routes from the stands onto the pitch and I think it's quite distasteful. Especially after the results of the inquest a couple of weeks ago.

Yes - fans shouldn't be going anywhere near the pitch unless in an emergency.
Yes - things shouldn't be thrown onto the pitch.
Yes - they were expecting both to happen.
They should never have put netting up. There are other ways of preventing these things from occurring.

I think questions need to be asked regarding the matter.

CAFC_Norfolk · May 2016

You've gone OTT

Leuth · May 2016

You've gone about as OTT as the jobsworths who put up the fencing did

RugbyAddick · May 2016

Leuth said:
You've gone about as OTT as the jobsworths who put up the fencing did

Ha I think it's bed time.

The_Organiser · May 2016

I made the same point myself on another thread. From my view in front row of the lower I can say without doubt that if for some disastrous reason (fire etc) fans needed to exit quickly on to the pitch, that netting would have caused a huge problem and I'm surprised it was allowed.

Riviera · May 2016

It wasn't a fence. It was exactly the same type of structure put up at loads of football grounds around the country every match day for warm ups to prevent errant shots from miss-firing strikers hitting little little Johnny in the face.
Are you the type of person who would report a player, who has received a torrent of abuse, giving the away fans a rude hand gesture?

25May98 · May 2016

I don't think you are OTT.

I want to know if there was a plan in place if an evacuation onto the pitch was necessary? If so who knew what to do if such circumstances arose? The same stewards who were told 'expect trouble'?

cafc_harry · May 2016

Don't know why people are having a go at him. They knew there was a threat of people going on the pitch so they tried to do something to prevent it. There's a different between a harmless net blocking balls before a game when hardly anyone's there and a few hundred people charging at it trying to go though/under it. In the event of a charge at the net what would've happened? Hopefully it'd quickly collapse but if not, then what? Even if just a few layers of people get to it before it falls that's 50 or so people falling on the floor underneath everyone else trying to get through.

Yes there was a threat and you'd expect them to counter it but if we've learnt anything in the past few weeks and in fact 30 years. That is not the right way to go about it.

Riviera · May 2016

Some people need to have a look behind themselves, and to the side! The North lower was hardly packed was it? Get over yourselves!

TeslaGirl · May 2016

I think it's not just a question of whether the net would have prevented a pitch invasion - whether from disgruntled fans or in an emergency, but the symbolism of it - fans being caged in behind a fence.

Yes, if needed, maybe it would have toppled, or maybe some of the inept stewards would have managed to rush on and remove it before people got caught up behind it, if say there had been a fire, but to me, that's not the point (or at least, not the only point).

In a post-Hillsborough world, you just don't give the appearance that you are caging in your fans.

And assuming in a panic caused by eg a fire that people will look and have time to ponder whether to move to the side or back, no, that's not what happens, people get as quickly away as possible.

DA7 · May 2016

Going slightly off topic
I was under the impression that since Hillsborough, it was paramount to know exactly how many people were within the football ground at the time of the match.
I believe that the published figures are of tickets sold.
This must be wrong.
Anyone throw any light on the matter?

The_Organiser · May 2016

Riviera said:
Some people need to have a look behind themselves, and to the side! The North lower was hardly packed was it? Get over yourselves!

I was in the lower. If there had been a fire in the concourse which meant the only way out was to the pitch, despite how empty it may have looked, it still took a fooking age to walk the length of it when we wanted to get into the east at the end. Maybe OTT to some but I was surprised and have never seen that in Emgland. That wasn't just a net behind some of the goal area to stop the balls. This was along the whole length and dug well in.

DamoNorthStand · May 2016

Are people getting any luck getting refunds for the obstructed view? North Lower - fact is black and white. If you bought a ticket you didn't buy it with the expectation of a net in the field of vision.

Any way the club are a bunch of cocks. I would want to sue them if a football landed within 5 feet of me at the moment. Which with our strikers is pretty likely

Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch · May 2016

I don't think it's worth dropping to their level.

The entire thing, fittingly with a crappy bit by the goal, stood as a monument drawing further attention to the regime's tenure. With the club now joining in with symbolic gestures I think CARD needs to raise it's game!

Addickted · May 2016

I shall be asking if Greenwich Council had seen and approved the the Risk Assessment carried out prior to the installation of the netting as well as the processes and Method Statement as to how the stewards intended to deal with a major incident in the North Lower with this netting in place at the next Safety Advisory Group meeting.

Although I don't believe the netting per se created an H&S risk, there are still procedures that the Club is required to follow to satisfy the Licensing Authority.

Friend Or Defoe · May 2016

In the event of an emergency the net could get cut open, worth noting that plastic and concrete doesn't catch fire. The north lower was also sparsely populated and people got on the pitch anyway. Nets like that are common on the continent, it's common practise in German.

The comparisons to Hillsborough are ignorant and boarder line offensive.

GlenPonder · May 2016

Following on from Addickted's post, if you are a resident of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, you may ask a public question at a Full Council meeting on this matter - details of this process are here: http://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/info/354/council_-_minutes_agendas_and_reports/213/your_rights_at_council_meetings/4

By submitting a public question you will generate a bit of publicity, perhaps a lot of interest if a number of questions were submitted by local residents... The Annual meeting of the Council is on Wednesday 18 May - I don't know whether public questions would be included on this agenda but there are contact details for Democratic Services on this webpage: http://committees.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=265&MId=4061 Robert Sutton will be able to advise you.

It would be interesting to find out the process by which Greenwich agreed to the erection of the netting (and indeed if any such approvals were necessary).

Unfortunately I am not a Greenwich resident...

Garrymanilow · May 2016

Friend Or Defoe said:
In the event of an emergency the net could get cut open, worth noting that plastic and concrete doesn't catch fire. The north lower was also sparsely populated and people got on the pitch anyway. Nets like that are common on the continent, it's common practise in German.

The comparisons to Hillsborough are ignorant and boarder line offensive.

Except no-one's compared it to Hillsborough. The posts regarding Hillsborough have said that given the recent public reminder about stadium safety and the tragic effects not having it can have, it has made people feel very uncomfortable

stilladdicted · May 2016

The symbolism jars because the Hillsborough tragedies are so fresh in our minds and that is what is noteworthy. They solved the problems that they created but have conspicuously failed to address the reasons. They have shown an amazing lack of sensitivity and when you add in sniffer dogs, the frisking of pensioners, Keystone cops and bully boys, they created a sense that nothing has changed since Hillsborough. Their incompetence has just got a whole lot worse, if that were possible.

ShootersHillGuru · May 2016

Friend Or Defoe said:
In the event of an emergency the net could get cut open, worth noting that plastic and concrete doesn't catch fire. The north lower was also sparsely populated and people got on the pitch anyway. Nets like that are common on the continent, it's common practise in German.

The comparisons to Hillsborough are ignorant and boarder line offensive.

I actually agree and think a lot of fuss is being made re the netting but " plastic doesn't catch fire ?????.

Think again.

hoof_it_up_to_benty · May 2016

I don't think the club has a clue about safety issues - as stated in a previous thread I was marooned at the top of the NW quadrant with my daughter who is a wheelchair user after the lifts were switched off. The stewards didn't have a clue what was going on and there was next to no communication.
In the case of the North Lower if there had been a fire or security incident with the netting in place it could have caused a problem - the fact that there wasn't is irrelevant as is the fact it wasn't packed.
It needs to be highlighted just to show what the club priorities are.

stackitsteve · May 2016

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the club just put the netting up and it didn't even enter their minds that additional RAMS would be required.
Act first, think later/never.

iaitch · May 2016

I think they should have electrified the fence and also add some machine gun towers to deter invasions. Should have also installed a shark infested moat.

What a load of fuss over a piece of netting.

Oggy Red · May 2016

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I don't think the club has a clue about safety issues - as stated in a previous thread I was marooned at the top of the NW quadrant with my daughter who is a wheelchair user after the lifts were switched off. The stewards didn't have a clue what was going on and there was next to no communication.
In the case of the North Lower if there had been a fire or security incident with the netting in place it could have caused a problem - the fact that there wasn't is irrelevant as is the fact it wasn't packed.
It needs to be highlighted just to show what the club priorities are.

May I suggest you write a letter/ask a public question to Greenwich Council specifically regarding this point?

vanilla · May 2016

I don't think you are OTT ... I have it on film, several Burnley fans trying to pull the fence down and it would not budge. If there had been a sudden surge of CAFC supporters, those caught up in the netting at the front WOULD have been crushed and trampled on. However, The FL find it good and proper.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/news/article/2016/football-league-statement-sky-bet-championship-trophy-presentation-3101039.aspx#bVeWA6drC2OtcV96.01

Burnley had thousands of supporters on the pitch descending onto the North. If they had surged forward on mass, they too would have been crushed, the iron poles may well have collapsed falling onto penned in fans. Whilst the majority of Police were trying to retain my small NW section, they had no idea what was going on behind them. Aside from all this, what if there had been a fire? Complete shambles in my opinion but what else to expect from this lot.

Friend Or Defoe · May 2016

ShootersHillGuru said:

Friend Or Defoe said:
In the event of an emergency the net could get cut open, worth noting that plastic and concrete doesn't catch fire. The north lower was also sparsely populated and people got on the pitch anyway. Nets like that are common on the continent, it's common practise in German.

The comparisons to Hillsborough are ignorant and boarder line offensive.
I actually agree and think a lot of fuss is being made re the netting but " plastic doesn't catch fire ?????.

Think again.

i'm guessing it's HDPE which burns around 120°C. You can't achieve that with paper burning on concrete unless it was a dilberate arson attack. I could be wrong!

rina · May 2016

Friend Or Defoe said:
In the event of an emergency the net could get cut open

How would that work? If the club's safety plan is to have stewards on standby with knives then I'm worried

bazjonster · May 2016

vanilla said:
I don't think you are OTT ... I have it on film, several Burnley fans trying to pull the fence down and it would not budge. If there had been a sudden surge of CAFC supporters, those caught up in the netting at the front WOULD have been crushed and trampled on. However, The FL find it good and proper.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/news/article/2016/football-league-statement-sky-bet-championship-trophy-presentation-3101039.aspx#bVeWA6drC2OtcV96.01

Burnley had thousands of supporters on the pitch descending onto the North. If they had surged forward on mass, they too would have been crushed, the iron poles may well have collapsed falling onto penned in fans. Whilst the majority of Police were trying to retain my small NW section, they had no idea what was going on behind them. Aside from all this, what if there had been a fire? Complete shambles in my opinion but what else to expect from this lot.

You don't really think that they wouldn't have sought H&S advice or had a contingency in place for expeditious removal of the 'net' do you?

They have made some stupid decisions over the course of the season but not even they are that thick!!

It was a net, put up to stop objects getting lobbed on the pitch that were causing weekly disruption; that's it!! Can you really blame them??

Redskin · May 2016

There was no fire/stampede/ crushing of fans or metal poles hurtling through the air like Exocets.
Some of you wish RD dead, think KM'S parents are 'legitimate targets'. Some of you talk of 'civil war' being 'raped' - no, really - of families being 'torn apart' and the Charlton knight mascot being a pederast.
A bit of netting goes up and you wet yourselves.
Get a fucking grip.

letthegoodtimesroll · May 2016

.

Redskin said:

A bit of netting goes up and you wet yourselves.
Get a fucking grip.

If it was the cinema and they had put up a net between you and the screen I guess you'd be the one telling all the other patrons to shush as it's not a problem;

And if a fire broke out behind you and the only way out was to wait for an usherette to come along and cut the netting down you'd be the one telling everybody to get a fucking grip

cafcnick1992 · May 2016

I thought the 20ft wall might have resinated well with Charlton fans given the socialist nonsense we hear on here sometimes.

The 20 foot fence

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