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Rank the Prime Minister

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  • Addickted
    Addickted Posts: 19,456
    Which war?

    Atlee
    Thatcher
    Macmillan

    Churchill was the perfect leader for the war, but not necessarily so great in peacetime
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,870
    MrOneLung said:

    2010 University of Leeds / Mori Poll of post war leaders


    # Prime Minister Years in Office Political party
    1 Clement Attlee 1945–1951 Labour
    2 Margaret Thatcher 1979–1990 Conservative
    3 Tony Blair 1997–2007 Labour
    4 Harold Macmillan 1957–1963 Conservative
    5 Harold Wilson 1964–1970, 1974–1976 Labour
    6 Sir Winston Churchill (1940–1945), 1951–1955 Conservative
    7 James Callaghan 1976–1979 Labour
    8 John Major 1990–1997 Conservative
    9 Edward Heath 1970–1974 Conservative
    10 Gordon Brown 2007–2010 Labour
    11 Sir Alec Douglas-Home 1963–1964 Conservative
    12 Sir Anthony Eden 1955–1957 Conservative

    That ranking more or less sums up my views, when you look at what they achieved and how their governments changed the country (even if you disagree with the actual policies)
  • theeenorth
    theeenorth Posts: 2,280
    Rank enough said.
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,356
    Atlee .. oversaw the creation of the embryonic modern welfare state
    McMillan ... foreign affairs and scandals disasters except for rapprochement with Kruschev... but oversaw wholesale new town and public housing development
    Cameron .. expert manipulation of a difficult coaltion government and gave the opportunity for the UK to get out of the mess which is the EU
  • Redrobo
    Redrobo Posts: 11,330
    Harold Wilson was asked what his greatest legacy from his years in power was.

    So many historic events for him to choose from .....his answer? Getting 'cats eyes' on roads.
  • iainment
    iainment Posts: 8,040
    Redrobo said:

    Harold Wilson was asked what his greatest legacy from his years in power was.

    So many historic events for him to choose from .....his answer? Getting 'cats eyes' on roads.

    I'm not sure you're right. I remember him saying his best achievement was the Open University.
  • iainment
    iainment Posts: 8,040
    iainment said:

    Redrobo said:

    Harold Wilson was asked what his greatest legacy from his years in power was.

    So many historic events for him to choose from .....his answer? Getting 'cats eyes' on roads.

    I'm not sure you're right. I remember him saying his best achievement was the Open University.
    In fact he wasn't in power when catseyes were first used. In 1933.
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,862
    James Callaghan introduced Cats Eyes onto the motorways when he was Junior Transport minister in Atlee's government.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,851
    Addickted said:

    Which war?

    Atlee
    Thatcher
    Macmillan

    Churchill was the perfect leader for the war, but not necessarily so great in peacetime

    Do not underestimate Clem's role in the wartime government.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,625
    Cameron without doubt was style over substance.
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  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,957
    MrOneLung said:

    James Callaghan introduced Cats Eyes onto the motorways when he was Junior Transport minister in Atlee's government.

    Doesn't sound quite right, Mr OneLung.

    First motorway wasn't opened until December 1958 (Preston bypass, now part of the M6).
    Atllee's government was in power only between 1945-51.
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,862
    I thought that when reading this article about Open University independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/open-eye-how-harolds-pet-project-became-his-monument-1175330.html
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,625
    Oggy Red said:

    MrOneLung said:

    James Callaghan introduced Cats Eyes onto the motorways when he was Junior Transport minister in Atlee's government.

    Doesn't sound quite right, Mr OneLung.

    First motorway wasn't opened until December 1958 (Preston bypass, now part of the M6).
    Atllee's government was in power only between 1945-51.
    What was it like Oggy ?

  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,957
    ShootersHillGuru said:

    Oggy Red said:

    MrOneLung said:

    James Callaghan introduced Cats Eyes onto the motorways when he was Junior Transport minister in Atlee's government.

    Doesn't sound quite right, Mr OneLung.

    First motorway wasn't opened until December 1958 (Preston bypass, now part of the M6).
    Atllee's government was in power only between 1945-51.
    What was it like Oggy ?

    Haha .... I bet you're even older than me, Shooters!

    I can remember as an 8 year old, being driven by my father up the then recently opened M1 ..... just miles and miles of relatively empty dual carriageway, and under bright new concrete bridges already daubed with the slogan, "Marples Must Go". That would be about 1963, when the M1 had been open around 4 years.

    Anyone else remember?

  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,495
    Judging on effectiveness, leaving my own political views aside

    Best since the war: Attlee, Thatcher, Blair
    Worst since the war: Eden, Brown, Wilson (74-76, he was OK in the 60s).

    Churchill was a great war leader but he was almost completely incapacitated after his stroke in 1953, which he managed to keep secret from the public, despite everyone on the press knowing (eat your heart out Hilary).
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,851
    Bit unfair on Wilson 74-76. He inherited a recession from Heath, was forced to go for another GE in 74 and had a majority of 3 seats - but by 76 when he handed over to Jim the economy was growing (but so was unemployment).

    He wasn't as radical as his 64-70 government but still substantial reforms were made to pensions and the welfare state. He wasn't a well man either.
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,495
    bobmunro said:

    Bit unfair on Wilson 74-76. He inherited a recession from Heath, was forced to go for another GE in 74 and had a majority of 3 seats - but by 76 when he handed over to Jim the economy was growing (but so was unemployment).

    He wasn't as radical as his 64-70 government but still substantial reforms were made to pensions and the welfare state. He wasn't a well man either.

    He did inherit a bad hand which he played abysmally. He was dreadful. No energy. Completely dominated by the deranged Marcia Williams, an alcoholic drinking brandy for breakfast and through the day. Capped off by the corrupt and disgusting Lavender list. He was very ill but that's no excuse. He knew before 1974 that he wasn't well enough to be PM and he should have resigned then.

    He did throw money at the welfare state and education. It was money we couldn't afford and was accompanied by no reform or improvement of services.

  • LenGlover
    LenGlover Posts: 31,661
    Jints said:



    bobmunro said:

    Bit unfair on Wilson 74-76. He inherited a recession from Heath, was forced to go for another GE in 74 and had a majority of 3 seats - but by 76 when he handed over to Jim the economy was growing (but so was unemployment).

    He wasn't as radical as his 64-70 government but still substantial reforms were made to pensions and the welfare state. He wasn't a well man either.

    He did inherit a bad hand which he played abysmally. He was dreadful. No energy. Completely dominated by the deranged Marcia Williams, an alcoholic drinking brandy for breakfast and through the day. Capped off by the corrupt and disgusting Lavender list. He was very ill but that's no excuse. He knew before 1974 that he wasn't well enough to be PM and he should have resigned then.

    He did throw money at the welfare state and education. It was money we couldn't afford and was accompanied by no reform or improvement of services.

    One thing for Wilson is that he kept us out of Vietnam.

    Compare and contrast with Blair.
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,495
    LenGlover said:

    Jints said:



    bobmunro said:

    Bit unfair on Wilson 74-76. He inherited a recession from Heath, was forced to go for another GE in 74 and had a majority of 3 seats - but by 76 when he handed over to Jim the economy was growing (but so was unemployment).

    He wasn't as radical as his 64-70 government but still substantial reforms were made to pensions and the welfare state. He wasn't a well man either.

    He did inherit a bad hand which he played abysmally. He was dreadful. No energy. Completely dominated by the deranged Marcia Williams, an alcoholic drinking brandy for breakfast and through the day. Capped off by the corrupt and disgusting Lavender list. He was very ill but that's no excuse. He knew before 1974 that he wasn't well enough to be PM and he should have resigned then.

    He did throw money at the welfare state and education. It was money we couldn't afford and was accompanied by no reform or improvement of services.

    One thing for Wilson is that he kept us out of Vietnam.

    Compare and contrast with Blair.
    That was in his 60s incarnation, when as I said he was OK.

    Blair also kept us out of Vietnam.

  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones Posts: 21,355
    Jints said:

    LenGlover said:

    Jints said:



    bobmunro said:

    Bit unfair on Wilson 74-76. He inherited a recession from Heath, was forced to go for another GE in 74 and had a majority of 3 seats - but by 76 when he handed over to Jim the economy was growing (but so was unemployment).

    He wasn't as radical as his 64-70 government but still substantial reforms were made to pensions and the welfare state. He wasn't a well man either.

    He did inherit a bad hand which he played abysmally. He was dreadful. No energy. Completely dominated by the deranged Marcia Williams, an alcoholic drinking brandy for breakfast and through the day. Capped off by the corrupt and disgusting Lavender list. He was very ill but that's no excuse. He knew before 1974 that he wasn't well enough to be PM and he should have resigned then.

    He did throw money at the welfare state and education. It was money we couldn't afford and was accompanied by no reform or improvement of services.

    One thing for Wilson is that he kept us out of Vietnam.

    Compare and contrast with Blair.
    That was in his 60s incarnation, when as I said he was OK.

    Blair also kept us out of Vietnam.

    Yeh BUT if they had just looked at him funny!
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  • SheffieldRed
    SheffieldRed Posts: 3,772
    Having Eden as worst seems a little unfair, he was in a situation where it was hard for anyone to excel.
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,495
    SheffieldRed said:

    Having Eden as worst seems a little unfair, he was in a situation where it was hard for anyone to excel.

    I feel a bit sorry for him as well. He was hooked on (prescribed) speed throughout his Premiership. But his conduct over Suez is pretty much unforgiveable. A sad end to a distinguished and often brave career.

  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones Posts: 21,355
    Without doubt Atlee. But i still say if he had survived to see the monster his life work had morphed into he would of committed hari-kari.
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,658
    soapy_jones said:

    Without doubt Atlee. But i still say if he had survived to see the monster his life work had morphed into he would of committed hari-kari.

    The Country? The Party? The NHS? I'm not sure any of them have consistently shone.
  • killer kish
    killer kish Posts: 2,019
    I believe their are only two who have really changed things and made a difference to this country and that's Atlee and Thatcher
  • Cordoban Addick
    Cordoban Addick Posts: 5,448
    Might have to revise Cameron's position downwards (if possible) in a few months time.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/mps-deliver-damning-verdict-on-camerons-libya-intervention

    Any chance he had a sneak at the findings and got out of the way early?
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,658
    Cordoban Addick said:

    Might have to revise Cameron's position downwards (if possible) in a few months time.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/mps-deliver-damning-verdict-on-camerons-libya-intervention

    Any chance he had a sneak at the findings and got out of the way early?

    The fuckwits at the Guardian were massive supporters for intervention. I remember article after article imploring Cameron and the west to intervene and save the jihadists freedom fighters in Benghazi. Cameron was an idiot get involved and but it's disingenuous to airbrush the role of the media in pushing for 'something' to be done.
  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    SantaClaus said:

    Cordoban Addick said:

    Might have to revise Cameron's position downwards (if possible) in a few months time.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/mps-deliver-damning-verdict-on-camerons-libya-intervention

    Any chance he had a sneak at the findings and got out of the way early?

    The fuckwits at the Guardian were massive supporters for intervention. I remember article after article imploring Cameron and the west to intervene and save the jihadists freedom fighters in Benghazi. Cameron was an idiot get involved and but it's disingenuous to airbrush the role of the media in pushing for 'something' to be done.
    You mean the media should be held accountable for the things they publish? Good luck with that.
  • Cordoban Addick
    Cordoban Addick Posts: 5,448
    SantaClaus said:

    Cordoban Addick said:

    Might have to revise Cameron's position downwards (if possible) in a few months time.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/mps-deliver-damning-verdict-on-camerons-libya-intervention

    Any chance he had a sneak at the findings and got out of the way early?

    The fuckwits at the Guardian were massive supporters for intervention. I remember article after article imploring Cameron and the west to intervene and save the jihadists freedom fighters in Benghazi. Cameron was an idiot get involved and but it's disingenuous to airbrush the role of the media in pushing for 'something' to be done.
    I don't get your point.

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