Johnnie Jackson: "Some players at Charlton not giving their all"
Comments
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It's all very post Huddersfield last season for me. JJ was very angry. He's given everything and more to this club and he now has to stand there and answer for a number that aren't giving their all.
But, why have we got yet another group of players under RD's reign not giving their all.
That for me is the real question.25 -
The love I have for this man is a joke.
I really wish we looked after him a lot more in these latter stages of his career.9 -
Re the duplicity involved in praising Jacko, yet rubbishing Robinson, for saying what is essentially the same thing:
I don't think people are necessarily even praising JJ for the content of his words - more his character, and the fact he has so blatantly been trotted out in front of the press and baying fans to take the heat.
I also agree with @mogodon and his summary.
Anyway, what we need is a change of ownership. We can comment on incidences like this 'til the cows come home, but our only focus from now should be ousting the regime.6 -
Could be devastating for his embryonic management career thoughValleyGary said:Let him run it till the end of the season and see what happens. Can't be worse than fatty.
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2 answers to that, I would say.cabbles said:
But, why have we got yet another group of players under RD's reign not giving their all.
That for me is the real question.
1. I can't imagine that assessing a player's personality forms a significant part of our recruitment process. Curbishley used to talk a lot about signing personalities that fit in with the Charlton mentality, I doubt that Fat Karl even bothered to meet all of his January signings.
2. The effect of poor management on staff attitudes. Doesn't matter whether it's a football team or an office - if you're working for a bad manager, or in a poorly managed environment, then it will inevitably effect your performance, and your motivation to do well.
Personally don't attach any blame whatsoever to the players. I doubt I would have it in me to give 100% every week against that shambolic backdrop.
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So Jackson is lying and the players are giving 100% ? Interesting take.The Red Robin said:
Because if you were at the game it's clearly Robinson's tactical ineptitude that's the problem. Jacko is hardly going to blame the manager is he?ShootersHillGuru said:I find it a bit laughable that some are slagging Robinson for saying that some players are not playing for the shirt yet when Jackson says it then he gets Praise.
What does come out is that both KR and JJ are right. That dressing room dissent is very much down to Robinson. If he can't sort that pdq which I don't think he can then we are bang in trouble.
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This, KR's interview was probably discussed and they sent Jacko out to put a spin on it. Poor bastard is probably as sick of it all as the rest of the teamseth plum said:Jacko has been used as the human shield by this regime on several occasions.
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Jackson isn't saying the same thing though even if he is talking about the same problem.
He uses very different terms, doesn't blame everyone else or say he can "do nothink".13 -
I got into a discussion with my old man about it on the car on the way home after getting dropped off by the coach last night.MrLargo said:
2 answers to that, I would say.cabbles said:
But, why have we got yet another group of players under RD's reign not giving their all.
That for me is the real question.
1. I can't imagine that assessing a player's personality forms a significant part of our recruitment process. Curbishley used to talk a lot about signing personalities that fit in with the Charlton mentality, I doubt that Fat Karl even bothered to meet all of his January signings.
2. The effect of poor management on staff attitudes. Doesn't matter whether it's a football team or an office - if you're working for a bad manager, or in a poorly managed environment, then it will inevitably effect your performance, and your motivation to do well.
Personally don't attach any blame whatsoever to the players. I doubt I would have it in me to give 100% every week against that shambolic backdrop.
He's of the opinion that the players should be doing better which I agree with to a certain extent, but I was trying to put across my point about the culture being rotten, because what's the one constant in these 3 years. I think he misinterpreted my choice of words when I said 'who/what has always been there during these 3 years' because he took it literally and said that Roland isn't always there.
Obviously I meant there as in the owner of the club. Doesn't matter how much interaction (if any) the players have with KM & RD, it's the aura and the culture, that's what I mean by being 'there'.
In my work we talk a lot about company culture and although it brings out the management bollocks/buzzwords it's a massive factor on performance if it's not a good culture.
As an example, I work in telesales. When I first started I was 24 and one of a number of young lads, lots of banter, pub, drinks blah blah blah, all very poor man's wolf of Wall Street. Now I'm 35, if I went for another job in a similar role it would be important to me not to be in some environment with a bunch of me's from 10 years ago, I'm not interested in that anymore.
Goes back to your point re: the culture that was built under Curbs and even Powell.
Top down Murray, Varney, Curbs, Kinsella, Robinson, Supporters, the Trust, the players, the kit man, the stewards, everyone in a similar cultural space, everyone brings their best self or as near as possible to the club, day in day out.
Culture of cancer and disease which reflects the RD era 2014 - present RD, KM, Keohane, 9 managers, Naby Sarr, Tony Watt, Andre Bikey, Roger Johnson, Ba, CARD, WAR and a protest fund.
Now I'm obviously not digging out CARD, WAR or the protest fund being a supporter, but these are by products of a cancerous culture and none of it would've even been imagined under the Curbs era.
It's a fucking joke39 -
The difference is that the buck stops with the manager. It’s his job to make sure that the players are giving their all, it’s his job to set the team up to win and it’s his job ultimately to take the blame if he can’t get the team to function. No-one wants to see a manager dodging blame and casting it around onto others when he’s given the platform to explain what happened, and that’s true in just about any workplace. You have to take responsibility for the group you’re in charge of, not publicly throw them under the bus to make yourself look less incompetent. Jackson on the other hand has just called out a load of players he has to share a dressing room with, he has no obligation to do so, and he’s done it because he cares about Charlton, not to save his own neck. It’s really not that surprisingly that people are reacting differently; the same message coming from a different place can completely change the impact it hasCAFCTrev said:When Robbo says it how it is hes called a mouthy scouse c*nt. Then when Jacko pretty much repeats what Robbo says, we talk about what a club legend Jacko is. I dont get it.
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Exactly what I thought, JJ used again ?SE7toSG3 said:Human Shield roĺled out by the regime end of, its pitiful, patronising and predictable.
The problem isnt the players, the manager, protesters or the apologists.
This club is broken from top to bottom until there is a complete change and we are able to start afresh, (and thats properly afresh not a KM 'judge us from now' afresh).0 -
That's true but as you say it is the same problem. It's a big thing for Jackson to come out and say.Henry Irving said:Jackson isn't saying the same thing though even if he is talking about the same problem.
He uses very different terms, doesn't blame everyone else or say he can "do nothink".
Can't see how Robinson can do enough to heal the dressing room quickly enough to avoid us getting dragged into a relegation fight. Worrying times.
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it was only a couple of weeks ago , before the wheels fell off completely, that Robinson was saying what a great bunch of players he had here and how great the attitude was within team. I wonder what's changed so much in those recent weeks and why ?10
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Which is why, I personally believe, we owe it to him to turn out in force on the 30th April. It will be an utter embarrassment to what will no doubt be his last game to run out in front of 5,000 fans. Sh1tty owner or regime aside, he deserves better.CharltonByBlood said:The love I have for this man is a joke.
I really wish we looked after him a lot more in these latter stages of his career.5 -
Exactly.Horsfield9 said:it was only a couple of weeks ago , before the wheels fell off completely, that Robinson was saying what a great bunch of players he had here and how great the attitude was within team. I wonder what's changed so much in those recent weeks and why ?
What's changed is we aren't winning and since that can't be the fault of the ownership (P45 if he says that) or himself it has to be the players.
Now, the players have to take some of the blame and in some cases a lot of the blame but if they are so bad and/or uncaring coach them better or drop them.
Or maybe try playing a settled side in a sensible formation. Play the players you bought a few weeks ago, stick to 442 but not with such a high line with a slow back four, i don't know but you should Jimmy because you are the manager. Not Slade, not Jackson YOU.0 -
He's run out of other excuses.Horsfield9 said:it was only a couple of weeks ago , before the wheels fell off completely, that Robinson was saying what a great bunch of players he had here and how great the attitude was within team. I wonder what's changed so much in those recent weeks and why ?
Players need to gel
Bad luck in the transfer window
I need to implement my style on them
Injuries and suspensions
Bad luck on the pitch
I know what the problem is
We've been working hard, we need to keep working hard
The players are a disgrace, none of this is my fault, blah, blah, blah, I'm off on holiday soon with the rest of my contract paid up5 -
In normal circumstances I find the constant sacking of managers ridiculously short-sighted and emblematic of the impatience that besets the modern game. But after KR's latest comments I really don't see how he can stay. There are times when we as supporters can see players collectively need a few home truths, and might endorse a good bollocking. Instead, his clumsily chosen words and passing of the blame will surely have alienated just about everyone.
Apart from everything else, he's publicly admitted that he thinks he can do nothing about the malaise; pretty much a resignation in itself.3 -
That KR is how you should have conducted yourself along with the choice of words you should have used.
Sorry but I don't buy into JJ being a human shield for anyone, I was there last night and think JJ has called it spot on and said it in a way similar to how Curbs or Powell would have done. KR take note.
That said i'll be honest I don't know how we can be so exposed for the 2nd and 3rd goals conceded when the Shrews players had the freedom of Shrewsbury to create and score the 2nd and 3rd, is it down to KR we were left so horrendously exposed at the back both times or was it down to the players not carrying out instructions where they should be on the pitch?
My gut feel says there's no way KR would have us throwing the kitchen sink at Shrewsbury in the 47th minute at a corner already 2-1 up.1 -
I've said it before and I'll say it again. When you're going through a bad patch Curbs always said go back to basics.
1 Only select players that will give 100%.
2 Play 4-4-2 or possibly 4-5-1 away and make yourself hard to beat.
3 Don't play 2 wingers away from home that can't/won't defend and expose your full backs. Possibly, don't play 2 wingers at home for the same reason.
Robinson's been bloody poor, but most managers will struggle under RD.
How can we recruit the right type of player, when the company's brand/strap line/ethos is we don't care if we win games ?
How can you expect your employees to want footballing success, when the owner doesn't want it ?41 -
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In a nutshell. Agree 100%Covered End said:I've said it before and I'll say it again. When you're going through a bad patch Curbs always said go back to basics.
1 Only select players that will give 100%.
2 Play 4-4-2 or possibly 4-5-1 away and make yourself hard to beat.
3 Don't play 2 wingers away from home that can't/won't defend and expose your full backs. Possibly, don't play 2 wingers at home for the same reason.
Robinson's been bloody poor, but most managers will struggle under RD.
How can we recruit the right type of player, when the company's brand/strap line/ethos is we don't care if we win games ?
How can you expect your employees to want footballing success, when the owner doesn't want it ?0 -
if i could like this twice i would ...we are an anti football club ,they follow the example of the management and ownership ....The Club is becoming ever rotten to the core under this lotCovered End said:I've said it before and I'll say it again. When you're going through a bad patch Curbs always said go back to basics.
1 Only select players that will give 100%.
2 Play 4-4-2 or possibly 4-5-1 away and make yourself hard to beat.
3 Don't play 2 wingers away from home that can't/won't defend and expose your full backs. Possibly, don't play 2 wingers at home for the same reason.
Robinson's been bloody poor, but most managers will struggle under RD.
How can we recruit the right type of player, when the company's brand/strap line/ethos is we don't care if we win games ?
How can you expect your employees to want footballing success, when the owner doesn't want it ?1 -
I no longer give a f*** what any of them say, I will be at Northampton, but only because I have tickets and meeting some family for a couple of pints afterwards, if we lose, zero f**** will be given.
We have an owner who is despised, we have an SMT who are clueless, we have a marmite manager whose initial enthusiasm and David Brentishness is starting to wear thin and grate.
We have a squad, that, apart from a few exceptions, clearly don't give a shit, and are mercenary in their attitude, no doubt on a good wage for League 1.
Who actually loses if we get relegated?
RD loses more revenue stream, good, KM may get the bullet, good, the SMT might get the bullet, good, KR might get the bullet...meh, some of the mercenaries in the squad will get what they want and be sold on to earn fraudulent wages elesewhere, good.
RD may actually sell up, after all, he doesn't do failure.
Me?
Nobody in my family or circle of friends will have died, I will still go, as it's a major part of my social life, my tickets will probably be cheaper, the queues for a half time piss & a pie will be quicker, yes, smaller stadiums, lower quality football, but not the end of the world.
It's always darkest before the dawn, maybe we need a complete reboot from top to bottom.
Fuck you RD and your ridiculous regime of toadies, I will still be here in years to come, with more integrity than you or any of your cohorts will ever possess.
Rant over16 -
We've changed all the players, that didn't work,
changed some seats, that didn't work,
put in undersoil heating, that didn't work
changed the scouts, that didn't work,
changed all the managers, that didn't work, ,
promised a new training ground, that didn't work,
sold our best players, that didn't work.
Can't think of anything else that hasn't changed in three years that might make a difference... hold on...nailed it, we've still got the same bloody fans.9 -
Yeah that's exactly what I said isn't it.ShootersHillGuru said:
So Jackson is lying and the players are giving 100% ? Interesting take.The Red Robin said:
Because if you were at the game it's clearly Robinson's tactical ineptitude that's the problem. Jacko is hardly going to blame the manager is he?ShootersHillGuru said:I find it a bit laughable that some are slagging Robinson for saying that some players are not playing for the shirt yet when Jackson says it then he gets Praise.
What does come out is that both KR and JJ are right. That dressing room dissent is very much down to Robinson. If he can't sort that pdq which I don't think he can then we are bang in trouble.0 -
It's about respect. Curbs respected Murray and Varney. The players respected Curbs. The fans respected the players. Respect has to be earned, that takes time and effort. It is very hard to find any respect within this current circus, putting aside Sue Parkes misplaced respect for her boss.cabbles said:
I got into a discussion with my old man about it on the car on the way home after getting dropped off by the coach last night.MrLargo said:
2 answers to that, I would say.cabbles said:
But, why have we got yet another group of players under RD's reign not giving their all.
That for me is the real question.
1. I can't imagine that assessing a player's personality forms a significant part of our recruitment process. Curbishley used to talk a lot about signing personalities that fit in with the Charlton mentality, I doubt that Fat Karl even bothered to meet all of his January signings.
2. The effect of poor management on staff attitudes. Doesn't matter whether it's a football team or an office - if you're working for a bad manager, or in a poorly managed environment, then it will inevitably effect your performance, and your motivation to do well.
Personally don't attach any blame whatsoever to the players. I doubt I would have it in me to give 100% every week against that shambolic backdrop.
He's of the opinion that the players should be doing better which I agree with to a certain extent, but I was trying to put across my point about the culture being rotten, because what's the one constant in these 3 years. I think he misinterpreted my choice of words when I said 'who/what has always been there during these 3 years' because he took it literally and said that Roland isn't always there.
Obviously I meant there as in the owner of the club. Doesn't matter how much interaction (if any) the players have with KM & RD, it's the aura and the culture, that's what I mean by being 'there'.
In my work we talk a lot about company culture and although it brings out the management bollocks/buzzwords it's a massive factor on performance if it's not a good culture.
As an example, I work in telesales. When I first started I was 24 and one of a number of young lads, lots of banter, pub, drinks blah blah blah, all very poor man's wolf of Wall Street. Now I'm 35, if I went for another job in a similar role it would be important to me not to be in some environment with a bunch of me's from 10 years ago, I'm not interested in that anymore.
Goes back to your point re: the culture that was built under Curbs and even Powell.
Top down Murray, Varney, Curbs, Kinsella, Robinson, Supporters, the Trust, the players, the kit man, the stewards, everyone in a similar cultural space, everyone brings their best self or as near as possible to the club, day in day out.
Culture of cancer and disease which reflects the RD era 2014 - present RD, KM, Keohane, 9 managers, Naby Sarr, Tony Watt, Andre Bikey, Roger Johnson, Ba, CARD, WAR and a protest fund.
Now I'm obviously not digging out CARD, WAR or the protest fund being a supporter, but these are by products of a cancerous culture and none of it would've even been imagined under the Curbs era.
It's a fucking joke0 -
As if on cue
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/mar/01/footballers-not-trying-premier-league-leicester-city
Apart from just being generally quite funny, the main point is that it's usually more complex than people just deciding not to try. Step forward Roland and your energy sapping, morale crushing, sinking shitshow ship of death.5 -
We could change the CEODippenhall said:We've changed all the players, that didn't work,
changed some seats, that didn't work,
put in undersoil heating, that didn't work
changed the scouts, that didn't work,
changed all the managers, that didn't work, ,
promised a new training ground, that didn't work,
sold our best players, that didn't work.
Can't think of anything else that hasn't changed in three years that might make a difference... hold on...nailed it, we've still got the same bloody fans.1 -
Bloody genius.HarryLime said:
We could change the CEODippenhall said:We've changed all the players, that didn't work,
changed some seats, that didn't work,
put in undersoil heating, that didn't work
changed the scouts, that didn't work,
changed all the managers, that didn't work, ,
promised a new training ground, that didn't work,
sold our best players, that didn't work.
Can't think of anything else that hasn't changed in three years that might make a difference... hold on...nailed it, we've still got the same bloody fans.4 -
Well Jackson blamed some of the players.The Red Robin said:
Yeah that's exactly what I said isn't it.ShootersHillGuru said:
So Jackson is lying and the players are giving 100% ? Interesting take.The Red Robin said:
Because if you were at the game it's clearly Robinson's tactical ineptitude that's the problem. Jacko is hardly going to blame the manager is he?ShootersHillGuru said:I find it a bit laughable that some are slagging Robinson for saying that some players are not playing for the shirt yet when Jackson says it then he gets Praise.
What does come out is that both KR and JJ are right. That dressing room dissent is very much down to Robinson. If he can't sort that pdq which I don't think he can then we are bang in trouble.
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