North Korea

Solidgone said:

Where does NK get the material for their nukes? China, Saudi, U.K or Pyongyang high street?

Pakistan

I would expect any help from China regarding the NK issue would be wholly contingent on the US withdrawing back from the region.

Any idea what this might mean for house prices?

bazjonster said:

newyorkaddick said:

Any idea what this might mean for house prices?

Downtown Pyongyang you can currently get a three storey townhouse with rooftop patio and hot tub for 3 carrots and a donkey mate!

Do you know whether they do timeshare? I only have half a carrot and a pet hamster.

SomervilleAddick said:

Solidgone said:

bazjonster said:

newyorkaddick said:

Any idea what this might mean for house prices?

Downtown Pyongyang you can currently get a three storey townhouse with rooftop patio and hot tub for 3 carrots and a donkey mate!

Do you know whether they do timeshare? I only have half a carrot and a pet hamster.

It depends on how fat the hamster is.

Mmmnnnn.....I Guess it's just bad timing putting my hamster forward for the CL Stoner's challenge. I need to rethink...

I think China is the key to North Korea, not so much American and Japanese diplomacy.

North Korea is convenient for the Chinese:

(a) It prevents a direct border with a US ally - South Korea;
(b) North Korean "stability" prevents a refugee crisis whereby millions could push towards the border for safety.

That said, there's been a shift in Chinese tact with North Korea lately, they've opted for harsher sanctions with the United Nations, threatened military intervention, and stopped accepting North Korean coal. Interestingly, they've opted for US coal - demonstrating a distinct bias in their view of US-vs-NK dispute IMO.

Not to mention they've been flooding their border regions with soldiers; arguably the Chinese could be doing this to prevent a humanitarian crisis, although they could be prepared to intervene more directly?

One thing I will say is that the North Korean government are little better than the Nazis; they will persecute based upon religion and have no qualms with concentration camps, medical experiments, torture and mass murder. As humorous as they may appear externally, if their conduct was seen anywhere else I suspect it would've been stopped a long time ago.

The best outcome is arguably Chinese intervention; not only do they know the region, but they're a regional superpower and a next-door neighbour, not to mention that it prevents further US/Western military involvement abroad.

They are more of a bloody danger to themselves than anyone else.

man_at_milletts said:

They are more of a bloody danger to themselves than anyone else.

this is what worries me. only takes a blunder like yesterdays launch but with a nuclear warhead attached to the missile to put an end to north korea and probably most of the peninsular.

JiMMy 85 said:

Might not have been a blunder. There's a chance the US scuppered it.

How?

cantersaddick said:

SoundAsa£ said:

JiMMy 85 said:

Might not have been a blunder. There's a chance the US scuppered it.

How?

Hacking. I have read rumours in the past of how the US put Irans nuclear tests back years by Hacking and corrupting their data.

You're likely referring to the Stuxnet worm.

Widely accepted as a US lead digital sabotage of Iran's nuclear enrichment facilities.

It worked by wrecking hundreds of high speed centrifuges by remotely adjusting their speed.

One of the first examples of using digital media to sabotage physical infrastructure.

Pretty interesting / scary stuff.

LuckyReds said:

Whilst I was typing that this happened: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39612095

After all the sabre-rattling it appears that they've just tried, and it failed.

Heads will roll.

bazjonster said:

newyorkaddick said:

Any idea what this might mean for house prices?

Downtown Pyongyang you can currently get a three storey townhouse with rooftop patio and hot tub for 3 carrots and a donkey mate!

Up and coming city, retro Soviet style architecture and no crime, except for the occasional assassination. Sounds good, what's the Nightlife like? Is the 'hot tub' estate agent lingo for a bath?

A pretty quiet day on this front, which is good. Perhaps there's scope for backroom diplomacy over a cup of tea and some chocolate cake, followed by some much needed deescalation? Otherwise I don't have a clue what's going on here, as it's becoming increasingly difficult to try and fathom out.

We know that the the US has confirmed - via Trump - that they're working directly with China to form the next steps; that's a definite positive, and as I've mentioned before, I get the impression that US/China relations are surprisingly good at the moment. (As difficult as it may be to concede, this may actually be thanks to the work of Trump.. At Mar-A-Lago to boot.) Not to mention, the best outcome for everyone would be intervention directly from China.

With that in mind, hopefully the US talk about the "situation coming to a head" speaks more about the discussions with China, than actually planning a direct intervention themselves. Whilst Pence is at the DMZ, I'd argue they're not expecting hostilities anytime soon though.

Meanwhile, it appears that the US naval vessels are continuing their journey to the region. Not quite sure that I see any positives to this, as Kim Jong-Un has just been embarrassed by the last missile launch, and will no doubt feel the need to do something to prove himself. Rumours of US sabotage certainly haven't died down, and they weren't denied when questioned. Although, I wonder how the launch was publicised at home..?

There remains the huge question mark over Russia though; Putin has been very quiet, and he was absolutely seething at the US over the Syria strikes the last time he had some press coverage.

I know Russia has some North Korean work camps, and their security forces have acted directly on behalf of the NK government by attempting to obstruct media coverage of these camps. So it's quite surprising that they're quite so quiet, as that would surely be indicative of a working relationship between the two countries? His response so far has been to move missiles closer to the NK border, as well as a large contingent of soldiers.

All that's really certain is that neither Russia or China will want the US on their doorstep, nor will they want the humanitarian crisis of potentially millions of refugees who will undoubtedly be suffering from not only malnutrition and potential medical neglect, but also the effects of a lifetime of propaganda and psychological control.

Lastly, our media coverage in the UK has been dire. The express are reporting the usual headlines COMPLETE WITH CAPS about impending WW3; seemingly ignoring the diplomatic signals from China, even if it was sourced from a well respected professor.

Whilst the telegraph has gone for a non-story, and focused on China and Russia shadowing the US fleet approaching North Korea. At first glance it sounds ominous - but the article goes on to state that the fleet is being shadowed by a far smaller presence for intelligence purposes; it would be ludicrous to think that neither Russia or China would see this as a perfect opportunity to test their surveillance and target acquisition capabilities against modern US vessels in presumably combat-readiness states. I'm a complete dickhead posting on a football forum, in bed on my iPad, at 5am.. And even I can see that.

@LuckyReds It was a good post that nearly got a like from me - then the last line turned it into a lol.