More like buying a horse. When you first set out, it’s a promising yearling with a reasonable price tag.
The price increases substantially as a 3yo despite a deterioration in performance and dropping out of the second tier of racing.
Unfortunately the horse is now priced as if he were a 2 grand national winner ready to go out to stud.
By the time negotiations are completed the horse has been moved onto light duties at country teaching stables but is commanding He price tag of red rum.
Seldom can there have been 30 pages of "debate" dedicated to the bleeding obvious.
That it descended into the level of personal abuse it did is beyond extraordinary and counterproductive in every sense of the word. I genuinely believed this site was better than such futile personal exchanges.
The end result is what exactly?
People need to remember this site is for the many who have little opportunity to get to the The Valley, an important link to an organisation they hold in high esteem. I can but argue such members and this site have been poorly served.
The nature of the continued attacks on the Australians is extraordinary.
Only after 25 pages of assertive chanting akin to a child bouncing on their bed acclaiming "I don't want to go to school" do we secure the acknowledgement the individuals involved do actually have the personal resources to buy the club.
In one case the capability extends to sufficient individual resources to buy the club, fund its infrastructure and its operations for 5yrs 3 or 4 times over From the day such individual chose to participate the consortium had access to the resources to complete the deal
The assertion they did not is palpably incorrect.
At what point is it going to register any potential new investor or investors are going to need to be the biggest investors in the clubs history simply to step through the door before any infrastructure improvements and ongoing operational funding.
All against the clubs worst ever financial standing and a playing status comparative to its lowest position in living memory.
Are you guys nuts?
Please provide me with a compelling answer why anybody would be willing to step into this space. That someone is and has committed to the process in terms of agreeing a "benchmark price" subject to due diligence is a significant step forward.
It is a step other interested parties have had ample opportunity to take but have chosen not to.
Indeed there are any number of assertions submissions have been made to the EFL. The very submission indicates at that point funding was in place.
I am tired of repeating it is not a question of acquiring the club it is a question of acquiring the club funding its infrastructure and its operations for period to deliver a successful outcome.
We above everybody else should recognise from three prior administrations who palpably got their sums wrong the consequences of short term leaps into the dark.
I suggest people reread the clubs recent press release regarding the current acquisition and long term investment.
Such is the scale of finance required how Mr Muir and his associates wish to structure their bid for the club is entirely a matter for them. I could probably fill this and two further posts on the financial tools Muir may wish to use to bring together a full financial package to defer and spread the risk.
I guarantee you would not wish to read it.
What I find most troubling is not the "tender panel" approach to funding, nor the possible creation of leases with regard to the The Valley or Training Ground. Neither are ideal but such is the scale of "project" finance required each element is an acceptable mechanism for deferring risk and reducing up front costs.
Yet the accompanying negative assertion about the financial acumen of the Australians, the nature of their acquisition and their planned modus operandi is disconcerting
As I asked earlier who does such dialogue actually serve? Such has been the vehemence of the challenge to this particular acquisition I can but ask;
- who are the other parties supposedly interested in the club who have sat on their hands? - how many other parties are involved and what are the values such offers put on the club? - whether such interested parties or their offers favour other individuals linked to the process?
It is speculated; - some have stipulated their walk away position...and walked away. - others have stipulated their final offer and left it on the table.
You can determine/ speculate who those other parties and individuals maybe for yourself.
What I can say after 40yrs in and around corporate politics I can recognise a concerted campaign of information/ disinformation when I see it.
The negative dialogue has continued with an exceptional level of assertions almost designed to draw on people's emotions and rattle people's cages to the point it is very difficult to avoid the conclusion someone somewhere has an agenda.
I can but determine the source of the information challenging the current acquisition as far from being from "an honest broker" no matter how well meaning its conduit to this site. It speaks to a vested interest.
Who and quite why that is can only be a matter of pure speculation. It is a speculation from which I could take this thread to its 1000 page goal on my own. I will save you that.
In reality it is irrelevant. What is not is that this club as an identifiable professional football organisation for many of us is dying. It is so desperately in need of a new direction and a new impetus.
On such a basis the perversity of the attacks on the Australians and the individual who chose to share and defend their interest is and was beyond bizarre. It was perverse to the point of insanity.
I am increasingly of the opinion I need to find better things to do.
This thread is like The Matrix trilogy. Started off with a bang. Excitement and hope. But the middle and end are really boring with loads of pointless fighting.
More like buying a horse. When you first set out, it’s a promising yearling with a reasonable price tag.
The price increases substantially as a 3yo despite a deterioration in performance and dropping out of the second tier of racing.
Unfortunately the horse is now priced as if he were a 2 grand national winner ready to go out to stud.
By the time negotiations are completed the horse has been moved onto light duties at country teaching stables but is commanding He price tag of red rum.
Plus, if the owner's not very careful, after four years you end up with an awful lot of shit to clear up.
NLA can you stop posting rubbish like the Aussies haven't got the cssh becaise Muir obviously has. What the consortium has is a well structured business plan with budgeted investment and shared risk. If a hedge fund offered you 6% would you sink all your money in or a fraction then see how things go? Too many poor football owners fail due to open cheque bookd.
It is not rubbish.
Why not? Muir has the money to buy us on his own but he is a successful businessman for a reason. They are just spreading the risk around. One of those sharing the risk was rejected by the EFL because of links to another Club. So now they are looking for a replacement investor. If NLA was to say that LargeAddick doesn’t have the money to conclude a deal he’d be right, just, but to say the Aussies don’t have the money is plainly wrong, they have it but are just not stupid enough to want to spend it.
But that’s where you are incorrect large in the context of buying cafc the Aussie consortium led by Muir right now does not have the funding in place to conclude the deal currently
The official statement eluded to it
Mr seeds grandson has said it this evening
The facts remain that yes there is atleast seriously wealthy individual who could buy the club using less than 10% of his net wealth but he currently chooses not to
If they were told to conclude today they couldn’t
Due to lack of funds within the consortium to be released into this project
In my world that means you ain’t got the money
I find it hilarious that all day it’s been said I have been fed lies and shite to belittle and muddy the Aussies when all along that person also knew that right now the Aussie bidders still need one or two more people to conclude and seal the deal
These are all facts
Not having the funding, which we all realise they obviously don’t have, is totally different to your previous mantra that they don’t have the money.
Hello, I'd like to buy your club for sale at the agreed price of £40.5M. Brilliant, do you have the money ? Yes, I have more than enough money. Brilliant, just sign here then. Sorry, I can't do that. Why not ? I don't have the funding.
More like buying a horse. When you first set out, it’s a promising yearling with a reasonable price tag.
The price increases substantially as a 3yo despite a deterioration in performance and dropping out of the second tier of racing.
Unfortunately the horse is now priced as if he were a 2 grand national winner ready to go out to stud.
By the time negotiations are completed the horse has been moved onto light duties at country teaching stables but is commanding He price tag of red rum.
funny that. just reminded me of a mate of mine who once had a share in a racehorse. no idea how much his share was but he did get to be in the winners enclosure on about the only time it did win........like Muir & Murphy turning up at play-off games but not seeing them since. glory boys !
Has anything happened in the last seventeen pages (c.500 posts)? Or is it the usual rumour milling, dick swinging, mindless chuntering and pipedreaming?
NLA can you stop posting rubbish like the Aussies haven't got the cssh becaise Muir obviously has. What the consortium has is a well structured business plan with budgeted investment and shared risk. If a hedge fund offered you 6% would you sink all your money in or a fraction then see how things go? Too many poor football owners fail due to open cheque bookd.
It is not rubbish.
Why not? Muir has the money to buy us on his own but he is a successful businessman for a reason. They are just spreading the risk around. One of those sharing the risk was rejected by the EFL because of links to another Club. So now they are looking for a replacement investor. If NLA was to say that LargeAddick doesn’t have the money to conclude a deal he’d be right, just, but to say the Aussies don’t have the money is plainly wrong, they have it but are just not stupid enough to want to spend it.
But that’s where you are incorrect large in the context of buying cafc the Aussie consortium led by Muir right now does not have the funding in place to conclude the deal currently
The official statement eluded to it
Mr seeds grandson has said it this evening
The facts remain that yes there is atleast seriously wealthy individual who could buy the club using less than 10% of his net wealth but he currently chooses not to
If they were told to conclude today they couldn’t
Due to lack of funds within the consortium to be released into this project
In my world that means you ain’t got the money
I find it hilarious that all day it’s been said I have been fed lies and shite to belittle and muddy the Aussies when all along that person also knew that right now the Aussie bidders still need one or two more people to conclude and seal the deal
These are all facts
Not having the funding, which we all realise they obviously don’t have, is totally different to your previous mantra that they don’t have the money.
I think you're being a bit pedantic bro'. I'm sure most people would read "not have the money" as not having enough money to by the club.....ie £40m. To me it sounds as if nla is spot on. The consortium at one point were good to go, agreed everything & so the fit & proper test was done. Since then something had changed......we have all believed this to be down to 2 investors being blocked by the EFL because of their involvements elsewhere and because of this the consortium is now short of the £40m needed, although @PragueAddick is now saying that the Trust has heard otherwise.
whether you call it "funding" or "money" is semantics. If they had to conclude the deal on Monday & hand over £40m it appears they don't have it. To me that is a great worry. If Muir was so sure of himself that he made it known who he was at the play off game & had pics taken of him and scarfy mk2, then he should be sure that enough funding/money is available to not only purchase the club but to buy players this summer & run the club for the foreseeable future.
They need to have more than £40m, if that’s the figure Roland wants for the club, because they need to fund the losses until they can turn that around and they need to put some money up for new players if we’d are aiming for promotion.
Only after 25 pages of assertive chanting akin to a child bouncing on their bed acclaiming "I don't want to go to school" do we secure the acknowledgement the individuals involved do actually have the personal resources to buy the club.
In one case the capability extends to sufficient individual resources to buy the club, fund its infrastructure and its operations for 5yrs 3 or 4 times over From the day such individual chose to participate the consortium had access to the resources to complete the deal
The assertion they did not is palpably incorrect.
Grapevine, I should imagine that most of us believe that Muir has the personal resources to buy and run the club for 5 years.
Surely, that it not at issue ?
RD also has the personal resources to buy and run the club for 5 years, so in that respect there is no difference.
The issue at hand is it would appear that Muir does not want to use enough of his personal resources, to ensure that the club is bought outright and adequately funded for say 5 years.
Obviously, we ask nothing of Muir, it is entirely up to him.
But I fail to understand why we should be pleased that an individual has the resources that he is not willing to spend, because that does not help the club anymore than RD having the resources he too is unwilling to spend.
Don't get me wrong. I don't take sides and I'd love anyone to take us over if they are what is best for the club, are genuine and can fund us adequately.
If new investors come on board presumably they need to be cleared by the EFL which will create further delays.
I’m not sure they will - fit and proper tests are focussed on individuals with significant control.
So 100 wealthy criminals buy a club, own 1% each and they won’t need to pass the test.
Do you think the EFL would have completed fit and proper tests on all the owners of, for example, Wycombe Wanderers?
They would however have completed the tests on the executive of the trust that makes the decisions (and again for any changes to that body following elections).
CAFC's 'financial year' is about to end and a new one commence. This may be relevant as regards a deadline for an agreement to be reached. Here's hoping that we receive some good news soon.
Seldom can there have been 30 pages of "debate" dedicated to the bleeding obvious.
That it descended into the level of personal abuse it did is beyond extraordinary and counterproductive in every sense of the word. I genuinely believed this site was better than such futile personal exchanges.
The end result is what exactly?
People need to remember this site is for the many who have little opportunity to get to the The Valley, an important link to an organisation they hold in high esteem. I can but argue such members and this site have been poorly served.
The nature of the continued attacks on the Australians is extraordinary.
Only after 25 pages of assertive chanting akin to a child bouncing on their bed acclaiming "I don't want to go to school" do we secure the acknowledgement the individuals involved do actually have the personal resources to buy the club.
In one case the capability extends to sufficient individual resources to buy the club, fund its infrastructure and its operations for 5yrs 3 or 4 times over From the day such individual chose to participate the consortium had access to the resources to complete the deal
The assertion they did not is palpably incorrect.
At what point is it going to register any potential new investor or investors are going to need to be the biggest investors in the clubs history simply to step through the door before any infrastructure improvements and ongoing operational funding.
All against the clubs worst ever financial standing and a playing status comparative to its lowest position in living memory.
Are you guys nuts?
Please provide me with a compelling answer why anybody would be willing to step into this space. That someone is and has committed to the process in terms of agreeing a "benchmark price" subject to due diligence is a significant step forward.
It is a step other interested parties have had ample opportunity to take but have chosen not to.
Indeed there are any number of assertions submissions have been made to the EFL. The very submission indicates at that point funding was in place.
I am tired of repeating it is not a question of acquiring the club it is a question of acquiring the club funding its infrastructure and its operations for period to deliver a successful outcome.
We above everybody else should recognise from three prior administrations who palpably got their sums wrong the consequences of short term leaps into the dark.
I suggest people reread the clubs recent press release regarding the current acquisition and long term investment.
Such is the scale of finance required how Mr Muir and his associates wish to structure their bid for the club is entirely a matter for them. I could probably fill this and two further posts on the financial tools Muir may wish to use to bring together a full financial package to defer and spread the risk.
I guarantee you would not wish to read it.
What I find most troubling is not the "tender panel" approach to funding, nor the possible creation of leases with regard to the The Valley or Training Ground. Neither are ideal but such is the scale of "project" finance required each element is an acceptable mechanism for deferring risk and reducing up front costs.
Yet the accompanying negative assertion about the financial acumen of the Australians, the nature of their acquisition and their planned modus operandi is disconcerting
As I asked earlier who does such dialogue actually serve? Such has been the vehemence of the challenge to this particular acquisition I can but ask;
- who are the other parties supposedly interested in the club who have sat on their hands? - how many other parties are involved and what are the values such offers put on the club? - whether such interested parties or their offers favour other individuals linked to the process?
It is speculated; - some have stipulated their walk away position...and walked away. - others have stipulated their final offer and left it on the table.
You can determine/ speculate who those other parties and individuals maybe for yourself.
What I can say after 40yrs in and around corporate politics I can recognise a concerted campaign of information/ disinformation when I see it.
The negative dialogue has continued with an exceptional level of assertions almost designed to draw on people's emotions and rattle people's cages to the point it is very difficult to avoid the conclusion someone somewhere has an agenda.
I can but determine the source of the information challenging the current acquisition as far from being from "an honest broker" no matter how well meaning its conduit to this site. It speaks to a vested interest.
Who and quite why that is can only be a matter of pure speculation. It is a speculation from which I could take this thread to its 1000 page goal on my own. I will save you that.
In reality it is irrelevant. What is not is that this club as an identifiable professional football organisation for many of us is dying. It is so desperately in need of a new direction and a new impetus.
On such a basis the perversity of the attacks on the Australians and the individual who chose to share and defend their interest is and was beyond bizarre. It was perverse to the point of insanity.
I am increasingly of the opinion I need to find better things to do.
I wish you all well
Grapevine49
Brilliant and insightful as always.
One point that you extrapolate needs to be reiterated: It's not just about buying the club, it's about funding it for the near to medium term future. And that requires both a significant amount of money coming in and over a sustained period of time.
Also, as I've speculated at various points, I expect the losses the club run under will get worse before they get better. We all know in football you must speculate to accumulate, so enhancing the squad, plus the addition of wages, plus the additions to the skeletal staff left by RD, let alone rebuilding the training ground, would all increase operating losses. And given the less than massive difference in money coming in between League One and the Championship, (keeping in mind bringing players in in the Championship would be more expensive, and wages would go up), even if we get promoted at the first time of asking you would expect those losses to continue for quite some time.
This is a huge expense, to say the least. Hopefully the delay is due to financial foresight by the Australian group, which I think is a reasonable assumption. Hopefully what is currently going on is putting together (again, it sounds like) a group where risk is spread out, and hopefully there is financial redundancy. And if that's the case, well done to them, it's the smart thing to do. If not, hopefully the EFL catches any flaws in their plans. It's a big leap of faith to rely on the EFL, but it's probably better than relying on Roland.
He called you a troll for daring to ask about Muir...… twice!
I think he was talking about Stu of Kunming........not me.....least I hope so!
Certainly wasn't you sir! Stu has a go at me at every opportunity for some reason best known to himself.
No, i dont, disagreeing with what you post is not having a go, you senile old goat.
Anyway. When I have time I'll reply to the offensive PM you have sent me at 1am.
That’s quite wrong sending PMs to people that are offensive at any time of the morning
All because I'm not convinced the aussies are our saviours, I then get accussed to following some bloke I've never heard of, on a forum I've never visited, it's beyond weird.
It's not my fault nothing he's said on this thread has come true, although I've never blamed that on him, I really think he posted what he did in good faith, saldy its looking more and more likely the Aussies found a willing idiot to get their story across, maybe they should focus a little more on getting their own house on order.
as their own website stated, they've been trying to raise funds for 16 months, that is a long, long time.
Anyway I'm not getting involved with him anymore, I really think the bloke is wired up wrong he loses his shit as soon as anyone doesn't fall in line with what he's saying. Everyone is being fed spin and lies, apart from him, of course, no way would his contacts say anything that wasn't 100% true. Delusional.
Can’t disagree with anything there mate
But the information that they have been searching for funding for 16months is a shocker I never knew that if they haven’t found it in that long it’s going to be a tough ask to find one or two before the season starts
Discussions about their lack of funding have happened from page 1 of this very thread, April 2017, so 14 months, my mistake.
Yet apparently believing that it might actually be true makes you a troll / stupid.
So, the consortium didn't have the required funds then, by James' own admission they don't have the funds now, when did they have the funds?
You would assume that a few weeks ago when the paperwork was sent to the EFL that the funds were in place then.
Seldom can there have been 30 pages of "debate" dedicated to the bleeding obvious.
That it descended into the level of personal abuse it did is beyond extraordinary and counterproductive in every sense of the word. I genuinely believed this site was better than such futile personal exchanges.
The end result is what exactly?
People need to remember this site is for the many who have little opportunity to get to the The Valley, an important link to an organisation they hold in high esteem. I can but argue such members and this site have been poorly served.
The nature of the continued attacks on the Australians is extraordinary.
Only after 25 pages of assertive chanting akin to a child bouncing on their bed acclaiming "I don't want to go to school" do we secure the acknowledgement the individuals involved do actually have the personal resources to buy the club.
In one case the capability extends to sufficient individual resources to buy the club, fund its infrastructure and its operations for 5yrs 3 or 4 times over From the day such individual chose to participate the consortium had access to the resources to complete the deal
The assertion they did not is palpably incorrect.
At what point is it going to register any potential new investor or investors are going to need to be the biggest investors in the clubs history simply to step through the door before any infrastructure improvements and ongoing operational funding.
All against the clubs worst ever financial standing and a playing status comparative to its lowest position in living memory.
Are you guys nuts?
Please provide me with a compelling answer why anybody would be willing to step into this space. That someone is and has committed to the process in terms of agreeing a "benchmark price" subject to due diligence is a significant step forward.
It is a step other interested parties have had ample opportunity to take but have chosen not to.
Indeed there are any number of assertions submissions have been made to the EFL. The very submission indicates at that point funding was in place.
I am tired of repeating it is not a question of acquiring the club it is a question of acquiring the club funding its infrastructure and its operations for period to deliver a successful outcome.
We above everybody else should recognise from three prior administrations who palpably got their sums wrong the consequences of short term leaps into the dark.
I suggest people reread the clubs recent press release regarding the current acquisition and long term investment.
Such is the scale of finance required how Mr Muir and his associates wish to structure their bid for the club is entirely a matter for them. I could probably fill this and two further posts on the financial tools Muir may wish to use to bring together a full financial package to defer and spread the risk.
I guarantee you would not wish to read it.
What I find most troubling is not the "tender panel" approach to funding, nor the possible creation of leases with regard to the The Valley or Training Ground. Neither are ideal but such is the scale of "project" finance required each element is an acceptable mechanism for deferring risk and reducing up front costs.
Yet the accompanying negative assertion about the financial acumen of the Australians, the nature of their acquisition and their planned modus operandi is disconcerting
As I asked earlier who does such dialogue actually serve? Such has been the vehemence of the challenge to this particular acquisition I can but ask;
- who are the other parties supposedly interested in the club who have sat on their hands? - how many other parties are involved and what are the values such offers put on the club? - whether such interested parties or their offers favour other individuals linked to the process?
It is speculated; - some have stipulated their walk away position...and walked away. - others have stipulated their final offer and left it on the table.
You can determine/ speculate who those other parties and individuals maybe for yourself.
What I can say after 40yrs in and around corporate politics I can recognise a concerted campaign of information/ disinformation when I see it.
The negative dialogue has continued with an exceptional level of assertions almost designed to draw on people's emotions and rattle people's cages to the point it is very difficult to avoid the conclusion someone somewhere has an agenda.
I can but determine the source of the information challenging the current acquisition as far from being from "an honest broker" no matter how well meaning its conduit to this site. It speaks to a vested interest.
Who and quite why that is can only be a matter of pure speculation. It is a speculation from which I could take this thread to its 1000 page goal on my own. I will save you that.
In reality it is irrelevant. What is not is that this club as an identifiable professional football organisation for many of us is dying. It is so desperately in need of a new direction and a new impetus.
On such a basis the perversity of the attacks on the Australians and the individual who chose to share and defend their interest is and was beyond bizarre. It was perverse to the point of insanity.
I am increasingly of the opinion I need to find better things to do.
I wish you all well
Grapevine49
Every now and then there is something decent to read on this marathon thread and usually it’s Grapes that comes up with the voice of reason. Beats buying the Sunday’s.
Has anything happened in the last seventeen pages (c.500 posts)? Or is it the usual rumour milling, dick swinging, mindless chuntering and pipedreaming?
No more takeover news, but well worth a read for last night's argument.
We were only a few posts away from a Prizefighter 'Charlton Life ITK' edition in Makro carpark.
Comments
The price increases substantially as a 3yo despite a deterioration in performance and dropping out of the second tier of racing.
Unfortunately the horse is now priced as if he were a 2 grand national winner ready to go out to stud.
By the time negotiations are completed the horse has been moved onto light duties at country teaching stables but is commanding He price tag of red rum.
But the middle and end are really boring with loads of pointless fighting.
Brilliant, do you have the money ?
Yes, I have more than enough money.
Brilliant, just sign here then.
Sorry, I can't do that.
Why not ?
I don't have the funding.
Was this a Monty Python sketch ?
Has anything happened in the last seventeen pages (c.500 posts)? Or is it the usual rumour milling, dick swinging, mindless chuntering and pipedreaming?
Grapevine, I should imagine that most of us believe that Muir has the personal resources to buy and run the club for 5 years.
Surely, that it not at issue ?
RD also has the personal resources to buy and run the club for 5 years, so in that respect there is no difference.
The issue at hand is it would appear that Muir does not want to use enough of his personal resources, to ensure that the club is bought outright and adequately funded for say 5 years.
Obviously, we ask nothing of Muir, it is entirely up to him.
But I fail to understand why we should be pleased that an individual has the resources that he is not willing to spend, because that does not help the club anymore than RD having the resources he too is unwilling to spend.
Don't get me wrong. I don't take sides and I'd love anyone to take us over if they are what is best for the club, are genuine and can fund us adequately.
Righty oh
FACT
They would however have completed the tests on the executive of the trust that makes the decisions (and again for any changes to that body following elections).
One point that you extrapolate needs to be reiterated: It's not just about buying the club, it's about funding it for the near to medium term future. And that requires both a significant amount of money coming in and over a sustained period of time.
Also, as I've speculated at various points, I expect the losses the club run under will get worse before they get better. We all know in football you must speculate to accumulate, so enhancing the squad, plus the addition of wages, plus the additions to the skeletal staff left by RD, let alone rebuilding the training ground, would all increase operating losses. And given the less than massive difference in money coming in between League One and the Championship, (keeping in mind bringing players in in the Championship would be more expensive, and wages would go up), even if we get promoted at the first time of asking you would expect those losses to continue for quite some time.
This is a huge expense, to say the least. Hopefully the delay is due to financial foresight by the Australian group, which I think is a reasonable assumption. Hopefully what is currently going on is putting together (again, it sounds like) a group where risk is spread out, and hopefully there is financial redundancy. And if that's the case, well done to them, it's the smart thing to do. If not, hopefully the EFL catches any flaws in their plans. It's a big leap of faith to rely on the EFL, but it's probably better than relying on Roland.
Beats buying the Sunday’s.
We were only a few posts away from a Prizefighter 'Charlton Life ITK' edition in Makro carpark.