Chances like that to get to a World Cup Final come along once in a lifetime.
I think they happen more often than people think - 1990, Belgium and Cameroon before a difficult semi final, 2002 teams going out left, right and centre. Euro 2016 is another example, Portugal's side of the draw.
In the last 20-25 years teams like Sweden, Romania and Turkey have reached semis without playing anyone great.
Lopsided draws will happen more often in 24 team Euros and 48 team World Cups too.
I’m talking about England having the easiest route to a final ever imaginable, weak group , weak knock out opponents and a weak semi final opponent , we will never see that again .
You are extremely deluded if you think that Croatia are a weak team.
We missed him. Dier is good at stopping others but he's never going to create chances or drive the team forwards.
Massively. No surprise in the two games he's come off or changed position we have struggled.
And Sterling. 1-0 up against Colombia when he went off. 1-1 with Croatia when he went off.
Sterling's performance last night confirmed why he's been playing over Rashford!!
Whenever we had the ball at the back, the Croatian attack would harry us and ensure that we rushed our passes making sure we didnt have time on the ball and so forced us to lump it forwards - Sterling would do that at the other end of the pitch, staying on the shoulder of the Croatia back line which meant he was constantly running on to the ball
Rashford on the other hand didnt seem to run for the ball unless he knew he could get it and would always drop deep so rather making their defence chase after him, he dropped to get the ball which allowed the Centre-Backs to just sit deep and force him to try and get through them with the ball... Something that he (1) Couldnt do (2) Barely tried to do as in Extra Time he ran into the box with the ball, had an hand put on his chest and bloody stopped!!
Rashford has been poor in this World Cup and offered nothing last night.
Chances like that to get to a World Cup Final come along once in a lifetime . It’s been a great World Cup due to the fact the big guns were shit and it became a lot easier for us in the half we were in . I’m not in the exceeded expectations camp because I believed before it started there wasn’t much opposition out there and once Spain left our half the final is where we should have got to . That was weak last night, after a great first half , we just weren’t at it . France have been the best team and will win it but it should have been us in the final Sooooooooo gutted .
We missed him. Dier is good at stopping others but he's never going to create chances or drive the team forwards.
Massively. No surprise in the two games he's come off or changed position we have struggled.
And Sterling. 1-0 up against Colombia when he went off. 1-1 with Croatia when he went off.
Sterling's performance last night confirmed why he's been playing over Rashford!!
Whenever we had the ball at the back, the Croatian attack would harry us and ensure that we rushed our passes making sure we didnt have time on the ball and so forced us to lump it forwards - Sterling would do that at the other end of the pitch, staying on the shoulder of the Croatia back line which meant he was constantly running on to the ball
Rashford on the other hand didnt seem to run for the ball unless he knew he could get it and would always drop deep so rather making their defence chase after him, he dropped to get the ball which allowed the Centre-Backs to just sit deep and force him to try and get through them with the ball... Something that he (1) Couldnt do (2) Barely tried to do as in Extra Time he ran into the box with the ball, had an hand put on his chest and bloody stopped!!
Rashford has been poor in this World Cup and offered nothing last night.
Yeah people have been calling for him all World Cup to start yet going by his Belgium / Croatia performances I can see why Southgate didnt use him for longer
Speaking through it at work, and someone made the good point that we seem to be confusing the strength of the team and the favourability of the draw.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.
Thats a fiar enough point.
I thibk what people are saying when they say they prefer this side to the golden generation is that we now have a team playing a system and being greater than the sum of the parts. Previously we had 11 individuals who didn't work well together and consistently pitting in performances way below the level they did for their clubs.
I know which version I prefer.
They would only have themselves to blame though. In 2010 we met Germany after finishing runners up to USA, we drew 0-0 with Algeria and beat Slovenia 1-0.
The "golden generation" massively underachieved. I've absolutely loved watching this breed and that hasn't been the way for me for a long time
Speaking through it at work, and someone made the good point that we seem to be confusing the strength of the team and the favourability of the draw.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.
Thats a fiar enough point.
I thibk what people are saying when they say they prefer this side to the golden generation is that we now have a team playing a system and being greater than the sum of the parts. Previously we had 11 individuals who didn't work well together and consistently pitting in performances way below the level they did for their clubs.
I know which version I prefer.
They would only have themselves to blame though. In 2010 we met Germany after finishing runners up to USA, we drew 0-0 with Algeria and beat Slovenia 1-0.
The "golden generation" massively underachieved. I've absolutely loved watching this breed and that hasn't been the way for me for a long time
And in 2002 if we'd have won the group it could have been Senegal and then Turkey (before losing to Brazil anyway!).
It could be worse , a mate of mine coming back from Moscow missed his flight home so had to pay up for another one that left 5 hours later via Lisbon . When he checked his boarding pass its via Lisbon to MANCHESTER .
"I took Liverpool to the final of the Champions League. Now with my national team we are in the final.
"I think people should recognise that I am also one of the best defenders in the world and not just talk nonsense."
In fairness he does do well on occasions, his clearance to prevent Kane getting there to head home a cross last night was brilliant, but he's fucking deluded if he thinks that either Liverpool or Croatia's final appearances were in any way down to him.
Sessegnon and Foden must be in the next squad. Back to last night.
Plan A last night was to play long balls to utilize the pace of Sterling and show the weakness of the Croatian back line. So far so good BUT perversely the early goal from another set piece just made the opposition push forward more and even though Croatia were average first half the 20 back passes to Pickford showed a negativity when we should have been exposing the limitations of Lovren and co at the back. The 'coming home ' back fired big time when Croatia realized that Harry Kane wasn't sharp and Sterling and Lingard are profligate when they see the goal in an England shirt.
Semi finalist is a great leap forward But our weakness are still stark. When we play better sides like Croatia we are out passed over 90 or 120 minutes. From the start of the second half it felt a penalty shootout was our best chance of a result. John Stones who had a good tournament made two mistakes, one leading to a goal and one hitting the post.
Plan B was ? Well difficult because just like against Iceland the wheels still come off. Mental fatigue more than anything seem to affect English players.
A goal scoring attacking player to help Kane and a midfield ball player to make crisp passes when under pressure is needed.
We would have gone out to Brazil in the Quarters instead of the semi in this half.
Sterling was better than Rashford eventhough he did not have any goals to prove it. We never looked better once Rashford came on. Yes Sterling is so frustrating at times, but at least his movement off the ball is so dangerous it opens up channels for open play. That regular sub of Rashford for Sterling possibly cost England the game. Sterling certainly wasnt tired and im sure prob one of the fittest on the team. When England needed a goal the most Sterling was on the bench in this tournament. Playing with 10, the last minutes of the game in a semifinal, needing a goal and you have to question the substitutions. Sterling should have stayed on and maybe Rashford for Tripper once the injury came about ...
Chances like that to get to a World Cup Final come along once in a lifetime.
I think they happen more often than people think - 1990, Belgium and Cameroon before a difficult semi final, 2002 teams going out left, right and centre. Euro 2016 is another example, Portugal's side of the draw.
In the last 20-25 years teams like Sweden, Romania and Turkey have reached semis without playing anyone great.
Lopsided draws will happen more often in 24 team Euros and 48 team World Cups too.
I’m talking about England having the easiest route to a final ever imaginable, weak group , weak knock out opponents and a weak semi final opponent , we will never see that again .
You are extremely deluded if you think that Croatia are a weak team.
They are not a weak team, but relative to others they are not the strongest. That fact makes it hurt even more. I think we scored too early - This is a new system we are playing and some issues have become apparent in so far as we start strongly, invariably take the lead and then if we don't get a second, things can dry up at best. There will be lots of useful analysis done post this competition. And Saturday's game is not a nothing game - It is a game against strong opposition where we can find out even more about the system.
We missed him. Dier is good at stopping others but he's never going to create chances or drive the team forwards.
Massively. No surprise in the two games he's come off or changed position we have struggled.
And Sterling. 1-0 up against Colombia when he went off. 1-1 with Croatia when he went off.
Sterling's performance last night confirmed why he's been playing over Rashford!!
Whenever we had the ball at the back, the Croatian attack would harry us and ensure that we rushed our passes making sure we didnt have time on the ball and so forced us to lump it forwards - Sterling would do that at the other end of the pitch, staying on the shoulder of the Croatia back line which meant he was constantly running on to the ball
Rashford on the other hand didnt seem to run for the ball unless he knew he could get it and would always drop deep so rather making their defence chase after him, he dropped to get the ball which allowed the Centre-Backs to just sit deep and force him to try and get through them with the ball... Something that he (1) Couldnt do (2) Barely tried to do as in Extra Time he ran into the box with the ball, had an hand put on his chest and bloody stopped!!
Can't be true surely. Apparently they've only got 1 really good midfielder and the others are average. I read that on here from many posters so must be true.
It was the same with Columbia though - we suffocated both and things were looking good. When they push up and took more risks in their play we sit back a bit, things change. Cast your mind back to Tunisia - We could have scored four or five in the first half - scored one then chances dried up. Panama - we did score 5 but again the flowing football dried up. Columbia we prevented them having a chance before we scored, then allowed their midfield which was anonymous before that to dominate and they scored, Even Sweden, we relied on Pickford to keep our lead before Alli got a second and yesterday, we we so dominant in the first half but couldn't adapt to their tactical changes in the second. There has to be a lot of analysis that Southgate should look at from that lot!
Sessegnon and Foden must be in the next squad. Back to last night.
Plan A last night was to play long balls to utilize the pace of Sterling and show the weakness of the Croatian back line. So far so good BUT perversely the early goal from another set piece just made the opposition push forward more and even though Croatia were average first half the 20 back passes to Pickford showed a negativity when we should have been exposing the limitations of Lovren and co at the back. The 'coming home ' back fired big time when Croatia realized that Harry Kane wasn't sharp and Sterling and Lingard are profligate when they see the goal in an England shirt.
Semi finalist is a great leap forward But our weakness are still stark. When we play better sides like Croatia we are out passed over 90 or 120 minutes. From the start of the second half it felt a penalty shootout was our best chance of a result. John Stones who had a good tournament made two mistakes, one leading to a goal and one hitting the post.
Plan B was ? Well difficult because just like against Iceland the wheels still come off. Mental fatigue more than anything seem to affect English players.
A goal scoring attacking player to help Kane and a midfield ball player to make crisp passes when under pressure is needed.
We would have gone out to Brazil in the Quarters instead of the semi in this half.
Progress but a long way to go.
Foden has got to actually play in the first team (I mean properly play, 20+ starts in a season ) before we should throw him in.
We beat: Tunisia, Panama, Columbia, Sweden We lost to: Belgium, Croatia
All this proud of them stuff is a little bit grating. I love Gareth and like the players but at the end of the day we are a long long way off of competing with the best. This was the easiest route to a World Cup we will ever get and we didn’t take it.
We were fortunate the way the draw panned out for us and it shouldn't surprise anyone that we went out to the first decent side we played.
Still it was a great few weeks and everyone got behind the team again. If you look at many of the big international teams alot of their players are coming to the end of their careers. If we can find a some more quality in midfield the future is looking good
We beat: Tunisia, Panama, Columbia, Sweden We lost to: Belgium, Croatia
All this proud of them stuff is a little bit grating. I love Gareth and like the players but at the end of the day we are a long long way off of competing with the best. This was the easiest route to a World Cup we will ever get and we didn’t take it.
2018 we beat Tunisia, Panama, Sweden 2014 we beat no-one 2010 we beat Slovenia 2006 we beat Paraguay, Trinidad & Tobago, Ecuador 2002 we beat Argentina, Denmark 1998 we beat Tunisia, Colombia 1994 we didn't qualify 1990 we beat Egypt
2018 and 2006 are equal for most wins in 90 minutes for any England team of the last 30 years.
We might still be a long way off but in getting to the semi-final, we're a damn sight closer than we've been in a long time.
Sessegnon and Foden must be in the next squad. Back to last night.
Plan A last night was to play long balls to utilize the pace of Sterling and show the weakness of the Croatian back line. So far so good BUT perversely the early goal from another set piece just made the opposition push forward more and even though Croatia were average first half the 20 back passes to Pickford showed a negativity when we should have been exposing the limitations of Lovren and co at the back. The 'coming home ' back fired big time when Croatia realized that Harry Kane wasn't sharp and Sterling and Lingard are profligate when they see the goal in an England shirt.
Semi finalist is a great leap forward But our weakness are still stark. When we play better sides like Croatia we are out passed over 90 or 120 minutes. From the start of the second half it felt a penalty shootout was our best chance of a result. John Stones who had a good tournament made two mistakes, one leading to a goal and one hitting the post.
Plan B was ? Well difficult because just like against Iceland the wheels still come off. Mental fatigue more than anything seem to affect English players.
A goal scoring attacking player to help Kane and a midfield ball player to make crisp passes when under pressure is needed.
We would have gone out to Brazil in the Quarters instead of the semi in this half.
Progress but a long way to go.
Foden has got to actually play in the first team (I mean properly play, 20+ starts in a season ) before we should throw him in.
Foden's agent and advisors need to get him a seasons loan to one of the lesser teams in the premier or just like the 60 players that have Chelsea as a parent club will join the lost list of Young players who disappear. Fulham would be a good move alongside Sessegnon.
Pickford Trippier New LB Gomez Stones Maguire Henderson New CM (Winks?) Lingard New Attacking Mid / Or the Man City version of Sterling Kane
We need an English version of Modric/Pirlo if we are to get anywhere - I suspect the nearest we have at present is Jonjo Shelvey.
Is why we have to hope that Phil Foden or Mason Mount get their chances at Man City and Chelsea respectively as they're probably the best young kids coming through for England in that sort of position
The problem is we dont seem to have another Goalscorer coming through who can take the pressure off Kane; Tammy Abraham and Dominic Solanke have been tipped to set the world alight yet neither appear to have done so and I still dont rate Rashford as our next big hope
Agree re: Rashford. I think he's good, could be very good, but nothing much more. But to be fair to him he's still very young. I just feel with him people remember the really special moments of skill, but forget that he's prone to also being completely anonymous and not having much of an end product. Nothing that can't improve with age, I just think he's overrated for where he is right now.
Regarding goalscorers, Harry Kane is only 25 in a couple weeks. And importantly, he's not a Wayne Rooney 25, he seems to be a really excellent athlete. Sterling is not clinical, but I also think that if he continues playing the way he did in the World Cup, that 2 goals in 40-odd games streak won't last. And we know he's a confidence player who once he gets one can get five. Alli, if his game continues to improve, can contribute goals from midfield, as can Lingard--who may not be the best long term option but his quickness and movement make him a good candidate for an impact sub.
From what I've seen of him I wouldn't describe Solanke as a pure finisher, more of an all around forward, but he's got everything in his locker, and this past season was his first in senior football I believe. Abraham had 20-odd goals for Bristol and then struggled in a Swansea side that struggled to create chances. What I've seen of him I wouldn't describe him as clinical either, but he is so quick and strong that I could see him developing into a real deadly goal threat.
And then yeah, agree about Folden and Mount. It's been a long time since England had a consistent central, playmaker who was capable of unlocking defenses at international level. And I think both have the potential to be that, keeping in mind they're 18 and I think should be considered for Qatar more than 2020. Wilshere, McEachran (whose younger brother looks quite tidy as well), Henderson, Ward-Prowse have all shown some promise in that role at that age, to varying degrees, and I think the little I've seen of Mount and the more I've seen of Foden they have as much potential as any of the above.
The thing that worries me about such players is that English football doesn't really have a tradition of developing the deep-lying playmaker. I think that's getting better, I think Chelsea and City have the kind of joined-up thinking to be mindful of that. But it's always a worry of mine that there just aren't enough coaches who know how to coach that role, that the tempo of the English game doesn't always suit that role, that when they go out on loan they'll just be played either as a box-to-box midfielder or a 10, and then get kicked up in the air by lower league center halves and journeyman central midfielders.
It's better now than it was. I think if he were 18 now Michael Carrick would end up with far more than 34 caps (!!!!) over a 14 year international career (some of that is injury, a lot of that is not knowing how to use him). How this group turns out (in general, not just in that position) over the next 4-5 years will be a good barometer for where English coaching is at the top levels at least.
We missed him. Dier is good at stopping others but he's never going to create chances or drive the team forwards.
Massively. No surprise in the two games he's come off or changed position we have struggled.
And Sterling. 1-0 up against Colombia when he went off. 1-1 with Croatia when he went off.
Sterling's performance last night confirmed why he's been playing over Rashford!!
Whenever we had the ball at the back, the Croatian attack would harry us and ensure that we rushed our passes making sure we didnt have time on the ball and so forced us to lump it forwards - Sterling would do that at the other end of the pitch, staying on the shoulder of the Croatia back line which meant he was constantly running on to the ball
Rashford on the other hand didnt seem to run for the ball unless he knew he could get it and would always drop deep so rather making their defence chase after him, he dropped to get the ball which allowed the Centre-Backs to just sit deep and force him to try and get through them with the ball... Something that he (1) Couldnt do (2) Barely tried to do as in Extra Time he ran into the box with the ball, had an hand put on his chest and bloody stopped!!
Can't be true surely. Apparently they've only got 1 really good midfielder and the others are average. I read that on here from many posters so must be true.
Indeed. Their midfield and forward line were all starters for: Inter, Barca, Real; Inter, Frankfurt, Juve. The one 'weak' link were top 4 most of the season in Germany.
That's a heck of an impressive line up, nevermind that they're more experienced than most of England's team.
We beat: Tunisia, Panama, Columbia, Sweden We lost to: Belgium, Croatia
All this proud of them stuff is a little bit grating. I love Gareth and like the players but at the end of the day we are a long long way off of competing with the best. This was the easiest route to a World Cup we will ever get and we didn’t take it.
But I feel like the answer is contained within your question. England are a side good enough to beat teams at and below their level, which, as Callum points out, is a big improvement on the last 10 years. England are just not good enough to beat a team who have better, more experienced players than they do.
Before the game I described Croatia as sleepwalking through the tournament. Against Argentina, and in little moments in their other games, they'd show their class, and then have long stretches where they were thoroughly mediocre. But it was clear they had another gear or two to go up, and unfortunately last night, after the 25-30 minute mark, and especially in the second half, they gelled. I think England made some tactical mistakes, I think at times a lack of experience showed, I think the lack of a playmaker is and has been a problem for a long time, but none of that negates that Croatia were the better side on the night. And I don't really understand how it's worse to go out to them in a Semi-Final, as opposed to a Quarterfinal or Round of 16 where you might otherwise meet them, apart from the fact that hope had more time to build because it was the semi.
Something I've been thinking about a lot is, how many of the England players would you describe as being in the top five most important players at their clubs? Kane. Probably Pickford. Vardy. I think that's about it. Even extending that list out to top ten you'd probably add Alli, Maguire, Henderson, Trippier (just). Obviously this is subjective, but the point I'm trying to make is that in the past with England a lot of people have said "oh look at these players winning all these trophies with their clubs" never fully appreciate the role those players played in winning those trophies. I think it's good to take stock of where this group is right now, and the answer is that they're at big clubs in part because they're English and English players are at a premium, and in part because they have big upsides, but they're not the vital players at their clubs.
Comments
The "golden generation" massively underachieved. I've absolutely loved watching this breed and that hasn't been the way for me for a long time
Back to last night.
Plan A last night was to play long balls to utilize the pace of Sterling and show the weakness of the Croatian back line.
So far so good BUT perversely the early goal from another set piece just made the opposition push forward more and even though Croatia were average first half the 20 back passes to Pickford showed a negativity when we should have been exposing the limitations of Lovren and co at the back.
The 'coming home ' back fired big time when Croatia realized that Harry Kane wasn't sharp and Sterling and Lingard are profligate when they see the goal in an England shirt.
Semi finalist is a great leap forward But our weakness are still stark. When we play better sides like Croatia we are out passed over 90 or 120 minutes.
From the start of the second half it felt a penalty shootout was our best chance of a result.
John Stones who had a good tournament made two mistakes, one leading to a goal and one hitting the post.
Plan B was ? Well difficult because just like against Iceland the wheels still come off.
Mental fatigue more than anything seem to affect English players.
A goal scoring attacking player to help Kane and a midfield ball player to make crisp passes when under pressure is needed.
We would have gone out to Brazil in the Quarters instead of the semi in this half.
Progress but a long way to go.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44811549
We lost to: Belgium, Croatia
All this proud of them stuff is a little bit grating. I love Gareth and like the players but at the end of the day we are a long long way off of competing with the best. This was the easiest route to a World Cup we will ever get and we didn’t take it.
Still it was a great few weeks and everyone got behind the team again. If you look at many of the big international teams alot of their players are coming to the end of their careers. If we can find a some more quality in midfield the future is looking good
2014 we beat no-one
2010 we beat Slovenia
2006 we beat Paraguay, Trinidad & Tobago, Ecuador
2002 we beat Argentina, Denmark
1998 we beat Tunisia, Colombia
1994 we didn't qualify
1990 we beat Egypt
2018 and 2006 are equal for most wins in 90 minutes for any England team of the last 30 years.
We might still be a long way off but in getting to the semi-final, we're a damn sight closer than we've been in a long time.
Fulham would be a good move alongside Sessegnon.
Regarding goalscorers, Harry Kane is only 25 in a couple weeks. And importantly, he's not a Wayne Rooney 25, he seems to be a really excellent athlete. Sterling is not clinical, but I also think that if he continues playing the way he did in the World Cup, that 2 goals in 40-odd games streak won't last. And we know he's a confidence player who once he gets one can get five. Alli, if his game continues to improve, can contribute goals from midfield, as can Lingard--who may not be the best long term option but his quickness and movement make him a good candidate for an impact sub.
From what I've seen of him I wouldn't describe Solanke as a pure finisher, more of an all around forward, but he's got everything in his locker, and this past season was his first in senior football I believe. Abraham had 20-odd goals for Bristol and then struggled in a Swansea side that struggled to create chances. What I've seen of him I wouldn't describe him as clinical either, but he is so quick and strong that I could see him developing into a real deadly goal threat.
And then yeah, agree about Folden and Mount. It's been a long time since England had a consistent central, playmaker who was capable of unlocking defenses at international level. And I think both have the potential to be that, keeping in mind they're 18 and I think should be considered for Qatar more than 2020. Wilshere, McEachran (whose younger brother looks quite tidy as well), Henderson, Ward-Prowse have all shown some promise in that role at that age, to varying degrees, and I think the little I've seen of Mount and the more I've seen of Foden they have as much potential as any of the above.
The thing that worries me about such players is that English football doesn't really have a tradition of developing the deep-lying playmaker. I think that's getting better, I think Chelsea and City have the kind of joined-up thinking to be mindful of that. But it's always a worry of mine that there just aren't enough coaches who know how to coach that role, that the tempo of the English game doesn't always suit that role, that when they go out on loan they'll just be played either as a box-to-box midfielder or a 10, and then get kicked up in the air by lower league center halves and journeyman central midfielders.
It's better now than it was. I think if he were 18 now Michael Carrick would end up with far more than 34 caps (!!!!) over a 14 year international career (some of that is injury, a lot of that is not knowing how to use him). How this group turns out (in general, not just in that position) over the next 4-5 years will be a good barometer for where English coaching is at the top levels at least.
That's a heck of an impressive line up, nevermind that they're more experienced than most of England's team.
Before the game I described Croatia as sleepwalking through the tournament. Against Argentina, and in little moments in their other games, they'd show their class, and then have long stretches where they were thoroughly mediocre. But it was clear they had another gear or two to go up, and unfortunately last night, after the 25-30 minute mark, and especially in the second half, they gelled. I think England made some tactical mistakes, I think at times a lack of experience showed, I think the lack of a playmaker is and has been a problem for a long time, but none of that negates that Croatia were the better side on the night. And I don't really understand how it's worse to go out to them in a Semi-Final, as opposed to a Quarterfinal or Round of 16 where you might otherwise meet them, apart from the fact that hope had more time to build because it was the semi.
Something I've been thinking about a lot is, how many of the England players would you describe as being in the top five most important players at their clubs? Kane. Probably Pickford. Vardy. I think that's about it. Even extending that list out to top ten you'd probably add Alli, Maguire, Henderson, Trippier (just). Obviously this is subjective, but the point I'm trying to make is that in the past with England a lot of people have said "oh look at these players winning all these trophies with their clubs" never fully appreciate the role those players played in winning those trophies. I think it's good to take stock of where this group is right now, and the answer is that they're at big clubs in part because they're English and English players are at a premium, and in part because they have big upsides, but they're not the vital players at their clubs.