We beat: Tunisia, Panama, Columbia, Sweden We lost to: Belgium, Croatia
All this proud of them stuff is a little bit grating. I love Gareth and like the players but at the end of the day we are a long long way off of competing with the best. This was the easiest route to a World Cup we will ever get and we didn’t take it.
2018 we beat Tunisia, Panama, Sweden 2014 we beat no-one 2010 we beat Slovenia 2006 we beat Paraguay, Trinidad & Tobago, Ecuador 2002 we beat Argentina, Denmark 1998 we beat Tunisia, Colombia 1994 we didn't qualify 1990 we beat Egypt
2018 and 2006 are equal for most wins in 90 minutes for any England team of the last 30 years.
We might still be a long way off but in getting to the semi-final, we're a damn sight closer than we've been in a long time.
How could you forget Colombia in 2018 @callumcafc? Ah, just realise you mean in 90 mins.
We missed him. Dier is good at stopping others but he's never going to create chances or drive the team forwards.
Massively. No surprise in the two games he's come off or changed position we have struggled.
And Sterling. 1-0 up against Colombia when he went off. 1-1 with Croatia when he went off.
Sterling's performance last night confirmed why he's been playing over Rashford!!
Whenever we had the ball at the back, the Croatian attack would harry us and ensure that we rushed our passes making sure we didnt have time on the ball and so forced us to lump it forwards - Sterling would do that at the other end of the pitch, staying on the shoulder of the Croatia back line which meant he was constantly running on to the ball
Rashford on the other hand didnt seem to run for the ball unless he knew he could get it and would always drop deep so rather making their defence chase after him, he dropped to get the ball which allowed the Centre-Backs to just sit deep and force him to try and get through them with the ball... Something that he (1) Couldnt do (2) Barely tried to do as in Extra Time he ran into the box with the ball, had an hand put on his chest and bloody stopped!!
Can't be true surely. Apparently they've only got 1 really good midfielder and the others are average. I read that on here from many posters so must be true.
Indeed. Their midfield and forward line were all starters for: Inter, Barca, Real; Inter, Frankfurt, Juve. The one 'weak' link were top 4 most of the season in Germany.
That's a heck of an impressive line up, nevermind that they're more experienced than most of England's team.
Bang on. And the 2-3 times I saw Frankfurt play Rebic was an incredibly important player for them. He's an absolute recking ball of a player, in a good and bad way.
With the benefit of a couple of days reflection, you can probably summarise our failings down to a couple of key areas:
1) Lack of impact off the bench - none of our subs ever made an impact (in fact generally made things worse).
2) Over the course of the six games, Lingaard and Ali never contributed enough in midfield, and helping with possession of the ball - both good squad players, but need to find others - would have been good to have the Ox available, and will be interesting to see how the likes of Foden at City, and Cairney at Fulham progress this season.
3) Not enough punch up front - Kane did well generally, but we didn't create enough for him. Sterling makes a good contribution, but across five games there were no goals and no assists - for a striker that isn't good enough.
4) Ball retention under pressure, lack of composure and basic technique, meant that we kept going backwards, when we should have kept trying to move the ball forward and play in their half - look at how France defended against Belgium - barely gave them a sniff, and didn't camp out on the 18 yard line.
5) Tactical inflexibility - probably should have changed things in that second half, and moved Sterling/Rashford across to the left hand side to halt the runs of Slaljko - missed a trick there.
Generally we have taken a big step forward, but are probably only 40% of the way to becoming a major football nation again - the next step will be to improve performances (not just results), by introducing some of the outstanding young players we have coming through.
Those stats don't change The fact that we could and should have been 3 up at half time.
For the first time in my life I'm immensly proud of our performance at a tournament, we were so close to making the final, no matter what the stats say.
I think it is a new system and give Southgate immense credit for that. Some issues have been highlighted which suggests when opponents change their approach within a game we need to alter things. Fair enough, Southgate can refine it based on that. He can start looking at this on Saturday!
Top for set piece goals but only five of the 32 teams created fewer from open play. Whilst our style of play is totally different, a certain Wimbledon of the 80s would have had similar stats.
The biggest change and I was a not a fan at first at all
Is Southgate
If the only way we have moved on is that we have a manager who is all about the country and his players above himself and the out side schenanigans of being England Mgr then we have made huge steps
For the first time since Sir Bobby we have a family man a man of morals and values , someone who is principled and that means more about what it is to be English
Im not getting carried away. We beat the poorer teams we came up against, and when we faced actual world class teams (Belgium/Croatia) we lost. The luck of the draw meant we came up against a world class team a round or two later then we normally would.
The biggest change and I was a not a fan at first at all
Is Southgate
If the only way we have moved on is that we have a manager who is all about the country and his players above himself and the out side schenanigans of being England Mgr then we have made huge steps
For the first time since Sir Bobby we have a family man a man of morals and values , someone who is principled and that means more about what it is to be English
He's also created a fun, relaxed and enjoyable environment for the players and let them take some ownership and create their own rules. It's working. Who knew grown men didn't need to be treated like naughty schoolchildren?
The biggest change and I was a not a fan at first at all
Is Southgate
If the only way we have moved on is that we have a manager who is all about the country and his players above himself and the out side schenanigans of being England Mgr then we have made huge steps
For the first time since Sir Bobby we have a family man a man of morals and values , someone who is principled and that means more about what it is to be English
And despite playing at the very highest level, no one can accuse him of having any allegiances so far as the big clubs are concerned. And his son isn't a football agent either!
Yes, he has been a breath of fresh are and I am sure he will meticulously analyse things that could have have been done better. It feels like a new chapter has started to be written and with our youth teams actually winning tournaments, we seem to have the right foundations to capitalise on this going forwards.
The biggest change and I was a not a fan at first at all
Is Southgate
If the only way we have moved on is that we have a manager who is all about the country and his players above himself and the out side schenanigans of being England Mgr then we have made huge steps
For the first time since Sir Bobby we have a family man a man of morals and values , someone who is principled and that means more about what it is to be English
He's also created a fun, relaxed and enjoyable environment for the players and let them take some ownership and create their own rules. It's working. Who knew grown men didn't need to be treated like naughty schoolchildren?
The biggest change and I was a not a fan at first at all
Is Southgate
If the only way we have moved on is that we have a manager who is all about the country and his players above himself and the out side schenanigans of being England Mgr then we have made huge steps
For the first time since Sir Bobby we have a family man a man of morals and values , someone who is principled and that means more about what it is to be English
Agreed - needs to make subs earlier though, and look to change things in matches if things aren't working. Hopefully that will come with experience though.
Henderson ran so much and got the ball clear to relieve pressure so often...
The change that needed to occur earlier was Young for Rose. Had that happened before we conceded I think we'd have been less likely to concede as Young wasn't tracking half as much by the time we conceded.
I know at a completely different level, but Powell - who did a great job with us would wait too long to make changes - a lot of managers do. I think there are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly human nature. When you have something, like a goal lead, you make it your priority not to give it up and secondly, you may not be sure what to do that will work.
I think when you are playing a clearly better side, it makes sense to sit deeper but if you have been on top and they take risks it forces you to try to exploit them and it is not always possible to do that without risk. That is what they are gambling on - you not being willing to take the risk to exploit their changes, but I think you have to. In terms of knowing how to respond, it might mean playing another player higher up and look to play on the counter quickly - Kane went very deep in the period leading up to the goal. We did do this initially after we scored, getting quick balls up to Sterling and actually frightening them a bit.
Then they changed things and started overloading on their right, our left. No guarantee it would work, but Young was starting to struggle so Rose coming on earlier and maybe Sterling playing in front of him, with Rashford playing higher with Kane, replacing Alli might have been what I did. May not have worked but I don't believe in waiting for opponents to score and doing nothing.
I was disappointed that Henderson and Sterling came off. Sterling kept them further away from our goal because they were worried about getting caught on the break and Henderson helped us to keep a good shape. I accept Croatia were a different kettle of fish second half, but Rashford and Dier didn't add much, to be honest. However, having said that, I think Croatia were in the ascendancy in the second half and had enough quality and nous to outsmart us, but we may just have clung on if it had stayed 1-0 for longer.
Henderson ran so much and got the ball clear to relieve pressure so often...
The change that needed to occur earlier was Young for Rose. Had that happened before we conceded I think we'd have been less likely to concede as Young wasn't tracking half as much by the time we conceded.
Young had little protection though. A problem with the 3-5-2 system is that the wing backs can end up having to defend against 2 opposition players if they are playing 4-4-2, and the midfield 3 aren't getting out wide to protect them. It's not in Dele's natural game to do that, as he's more of a central No 10 for Spurs?
If you watch his performances throughout the tournament properly, you would see it was an instruction to play the ball forward quickly.
Yet again, no suprise we lost all shape and press when he left the pitch.
I agree he was clearly instructed to try to play more probing passes, and at times did it incredibly well. And there are two or three passes in that clip that I think are long passes that are just mis hit, and that happens.
That being said, there are also a lot of hoofs in there as well. And while he's improved drastically down the years, and had a very good tournament, I do still feel he sometimes lacks the technical ability and desire to get the ball in tight spaces and keep possession, and the situational awareness of when to gamble and when to play safe. And with England under the caut, they needed that cool head who is not going to give the ball away for anything. And I don't know that he's that, though to be fair that goes back to England not really having or producing deep lying playmakers.
I don't want to be overly critical of him, he's actually someone I've championed in the past when he got a lot of stick. I just think there are intricacies of the international game when England are in possession that he doesn't possess at this point in his career.
I think Henderson is one of 5 England players who has improved their reputation significantly in this tournament. You have Pickford, Trippier, Maguire, Golden boot Kane and Henderson who has been consistently excellent.
If you watch his performances throughout the tournament properly, you would see it was an instruction to play the ball forward quickly.
Yet again, no suprise we lost all shape and press when he left the pitch.
I agree he was clearly instructed to try to play more probing passes, and at times did it incredibly well. And there are two or three passes in that clip that I think are long passes that are just mis hit, and that happens.
That being said, there are also a lot of hoofs in there as well. And while he's improved drastically down the years, and had a very good tournament, I do still feel he sometimes lacks the technical ability and desire to get the ball in tight spaces and keep possession, and the situational awareness of when to gamble and when to play safe. And with England under the caut, they needed that cool head who is not going to give the ball away for anything. And I don't know that he's that, though to be fair that goes back to England not really having or producing deep lying playmakers.
I don't want to be overly critical of him, he's actually someone I've championed in the past when he got a lot of stick. I just think there are intricacies of the international game when England are in possession that he doesn't possess at this point in his career.
I agree with you. This is why he needs to be playing alongside someone that also possesses positional intelligence and the ability to keep the ball in tight situations. I personally would have taken Wilshere for this very reason as I don’t think Henderson has it all in his locker and needs help when we are playing teams that put us under pressure.
Just home from travelling 7,500 miles (London-Gerona-Moscow and Moscow-Cyprus-London) to see the game and now £1k+ lighter.
I’m gutted but mainly due to the fact I don’t think we will ever get as good an opportunity. Was just a game too much but they showed in the first half what they could do.
Overall though It’s the first time I’ve actually ever liked a whole England team and can really support them, where as in the past I’ve supported the shirt only.
I wasn’t keen on the Southgate appointment. Thought he’d be another yes man. But my god I was wrong. Incredible respect for him and for what he is trying to build.
Thought Maguire, Trippier, Henderson and Pickford were excellent. Bit disappointed with Kane in the last two games and really don’t get Dier. Sterling I’ve often criticised and he is hugely frustrating with his final product, but I did think we looked better whenever he was on the pitch.
The one thing that really grated on me and I know it’s just the way world cups are, but the amount of:
1. The sheer numbers of Supporters of other nations there, inc in our section, in thier Argie,German,Real Madrid etc etc etc tops.
3. As above but them trying to shift thier tickets to desperate, desperate England fans for thousands of pounds in the streets before the game. Young lads who probably don’t earn great m, yet who made such efforts to get out there and having groups of Chinese ladies walking through the street trying to shaft them.
3. The number of baby up to say 15 year old Eng fans there in the ground. Half of which had no real interest. Lucky to have rich parents who can take the whole family. When there are dedicated long term Eng fans without tickets outside who have done the miles over the years and had paid huge expense to get out there.
The Business end of the WC is great but it don’t half highlight the corporate, ugly side of the game.
I agree that it has been a positive start from Southgate, but he has to understand what went wrong rather than bask in the praise. The praise is deserved but if he does the former, he could become a great England manager!
It could be worse , a mate of mine coming back from Moscow missed his flight home so had to pay up for another one that left 5 hours later via Lisbon . When he checked his boarding pass its via Lisbon to MANCHESTER .
M?? What a doughnut! Saw him match day and we was in good spirits.
Comments
1) Lack of impact off the bench - none of our subs ever made an impact (in fact generally made things worse).
2) Over the course of the six games, Lingaard and Ali never contributed enough in midfield, and helping with possession of the ball - both good squad players, but need to find others - would have been good to have the Ox available, and will be interesting to see how the likes of Foden at City, and Cairney at Fulham progress this season.
3) Not enough punch up front - Kane did well generally, but we didn't create enough for him. Sterling makes a good contribution, but across five games there were no goals and no assists - for a striker that isn't good enough.
4) Ball retention under pressure, lack of composure and basic technique, meant that we kept going backwards, when we should have kept trying to move the ball forward and play in their half - look at how France defended against Belgium - barely gave them a sniff, and didn't camp out on the 18 yard line.
5) Tactical inflexibility - probably should have changed things in that second half, and moved Sterling/Rashford across to the left hand side to halt the runs of Slaljko - missed a trick there.
Generally we have taken a big step forward, but are probably only 40% of the way to becoming a major football nation again - the next step will be to improve performances (not just results), by introducing some of the outstanding young players we have coming through.
Here's the xG map below... dots with a yellow ring are shots that resulted in a goal.
By half time in extra time, Croatia had increased their tally to 1.47 (Mandzukic foiled by Pickford from close range) while England were only at 0.73.
After 120 minutes, Croatia had reached 2.09 (Pickford unable to deny Mandzukic this time) and England were static at 0.73.
(xG is the future of football stats. FACT)
For the first time in my life I'm immensly proud of our performance at a tournament, we were so close to making the final, no matter what the stats say.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44808192
Is Southgate
If the only way we have moved on is that we have a manager who is all about the country and his players above himself and the out side schenanigans of being England Mgr then we have made huge steps
For the first time since Sir Bobby we have a family man a man of morals and values , someone who is principled and that means more about what it is to be English
Still a massive improvement on Euro 2016 though!
Yet again, no suprise we lost all shape and press when he left the pitch.
The change that needed to occur earlier was Young for Rose. Had that happened before we conceded I think we'd have been less likely to concede as Young wasn't tracking half as much by the time we conceded.
I think when you are playing a clearly better side, it makes sense to sit deeper but if you have been on top and they take risks it forces you to try to exploit them and it is not always possible to do that without risk. That is what they are gambling on - you not being willing to take the risk to exploit their changes, but I think you have to. In terms of knowing how to respond, it might mean playing another player higher up and look to play on the counter quickly - Kane went very deep in the period leading up to the goal. We did do this initially after we scored, getting quick balls up to Sterling and actually frightening them a bit.
Then they changed things and started overloading on their right, our left. No guarantee it would work, but Young was starting to struggle so Rose coming on earlier and maybe Sterling playing in front of him, with Rashford playing higher with Kane, replacing Alli might have been what I did. May not have worked but I don't believe in waiting for opponents to score and doing nothing.
That being said, there are also a lot of hoofs in there as well. And while he's improved drastically down the years, and had a very good tournament, I do still feel he sometimes lacks the technical ability and desire to get the ball in tight spaces and keep possession, and the situational awareness of when to gamble and when to play safe. And with England under the caut, they needed that cool head who is not going to give the ball away for anything. And I don't know that he's that, though to be fair that goes back to England not really having or producing deep lying playmakers.
I don't want to be overly critical of him, he's actually someone I've championed in the past when he got a lot of stick. I just think there are intricacies of the international game when England are in possession that he doesn't possess at this point in his career.
I’m gutted but mainly due to the fact I don’t think we will ever get as good an opportunity. Was just a game too much but they showed in the first half what they could do.
Overall though It’s the first time I’ve actually ever liked a whole England team and can really support them, where as in the past I’ve supported the shirt only.
I wasn’t keen on the Southgate appointment. Thought he’d be another yes man. But my god I was wrong. Incredible respect for him and for what he is trying to build.
Thought Maguire, Trippier, Henderson and Pickford were excellent. Bit disappointed with Kane in the last two games and really don’t get Dier. Sterling I’ve often criticised and he is hugely frustrating with his final product, but I did think we looked better whenever he was on the pitch.
The one thing that really grated on me and I know it’s just the way world cups are, but the amount of:
1. The sheer numbers of Supporters of other nations there, inc in our section, in thier Argie,German,Real Madrid etc etc etc tops.
3. As above but them trying to shift thier tickets to desperate, desperate England fans for thousands of pounds in the streets before the game. Young lads who probably don’t earn great m, yet who made such efforts to get out there and having groups of Chinese ladies walking through the street trying to shaft them.
3. The number of baby up to say 15 year old Eng fans there in the ground. Half of which had no real interest. Lucky to have rich parents who can take the whole family. When there are dedicated long term Eng fans without tickets outside who have done the miles over the years and had paid huge expense to get out there.
The Business end of the WC is great but it don’t half highlight the corporate, ugly side of the game.