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ACV on The Valley
AFKABartram
Posts: 57,830
With the potential for ownership change ahead, what's the situation with this?
Was the ACV that was granted have an end date attached to it?
If so, is action required at some point in the future to ensure it is extended?
Was the ACV that was granted have an end date attached to it?
If so, is action required at some point in the future to ensure it is extended?
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ACV's automatically expire at the end of their time period and have to be applied for again.
Looks like the original ACV was approved on 29th November 2013. It will expire on 28th November 2018. A new ACV will need to be applied for following the same process as before.0 -
Do the Trust have this in hand (if it is the Trust) ?0
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Protection under ACV for a football ground is only a period of extra time (I doubt any supporter base could finance the cash needed to buy their ground and therefore activate ACV mandatory purchase provisions)
However the mechanism makes it much harder for any aggressive developer to flip the asset and therefore ACV protects your ground by making it a less attractive proposition.
Really hope this is extended and would hope CAST have it well in hand. I am pretty confident they do.0 -
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In terms of terminology, extended is the wrong term. It needs to be re applied for, as if it is a new application. The process will also include a six week consultation period. In order to avoid any time gaps in the ACV the new application would need to go in very soon.0
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Haha bet it’s what’s delaying the purchase.. oops0
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Haha bet it’s what’s delaying the purchase.. oops0
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@AFKABartram pretty sure it was mentioned at their AGM0
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Yes, it's in hand, being applied for.6
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Just found the below that Prague posted in JanuaryPragueAddick said:
We also have the ACV which the Supporters' Trust jealously guards. Indeed @se9addick who spearheaded the initial project to obtain it, has kindly volunteered to do the same for its renewal even though he is no longer on the CAST board.
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Sounds like he’s doing the job whilst not being in post which is admirable.
I hope the Trust pay him some expenses to go to their Xmas party...0 -
AFKABartram - You know what your problem is, don't you ? Every week CAST slaves away to send you an e mail update of news and you don't bleedin' read it. I regret to say that it looks like you have only been skim reading the Fans Forum minutes as well. Is it really any wonder that informed people say your finger is no longer on the pulse of all things CAFC ?
CAST entered discussions with RBG about re-applying for ACV status last year. Our application has been prepared (thank you SE9addick) and is ready to go. In fact we want to improve the situation. For example, the existing ACV status does not cover the car park, so we want to make sure that is included this time.
We are confident the application will be successful. What would pretty well guarantee it would be if the application was backed by the club (as it was in 2013). The current regime still support it but we all hope that there will be a different regime in charge by November when the application is considered.
AVC status does supply some protection but it is not a panacea. In fact it is quite limited. In my view the symbolic value of ACV status is as important as its legal value.
We will be running an update on all this in our next edition of Trust News (delivered free via your letterbox but probably used as cat litter in your household.) The next edition is already overdue but we have been delaying it in the hope that it can celebrate a change of ownership. Let's hope it goes to print soon.
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Nice one @Pico0
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You’ve changed your tunerazil said:Training ground too please and any other land the club holds. Well done @pico et al. Shame it can’t be submitted sooner so it’s in place when the other one expires, given it’s a fresh application can’t see why not.
I don’t think we could reasonably claim that there is significant community value in a professional football teams training ground and I don’t think there’s precedence for it being granted in those circumstances before.
Plus a new training ground in Melbourne sounds quite nice!1 -
Oh contrare Rodney.. the new development is very much a community based scheme including local teams and CACT, probably fits the mould more than the Valley. Happy to discuss offline..0
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Cheers mate. Yours at 7pm?razil said:Oh contrare Rodney.. the new development is very much a community based scheme including local teams and CACT, probably fits the mould more than the Valley. Happy to discuss offline..
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more on ACV here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/6069/1987150.pdf
Interesting that it mentions that an ACV being present may affect planning decisions.
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So, has a new AVC been granted, or not?
And if granted, what does it cover?1 -
I'll check, they make you reapply (only) once its lapsed, which is highly dodgy in my view either in the legislation or the application of it, not sure which.3
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CAST applied for renewal of ACV status in October when the previous status expired (You can't apply until it has expired)
RB Greenwich should have made a decision before Christmas and we are now chasing them up as they have taken longer than their own timescales permit. From memory this also happened in 2013 so no need to read anything into it. We have no reason to think it won't be granted but we would anticipate a major fuss if it wasn't.
This is an excerpt from an article in the last edition of Trust News which, I hope, clarifies the extent of the rights that ACV status grants:
"What does ACV status amount to?
It means that any owner of the club who wishes to sell the ground must inform the Royal Borough who will in turn inform CAST. We would then have six weeks to decide whether we (or any other community group) wish to make a bid to buy the ground. If we decide to make a bid there is a further six month moratorium period while a bid is prepared. During this time the ground cannot be sold.
Let’s suppose that CAST did elect to make a bid and are able to raise sufficient funds during the six month moratorium. That does not that mean that the owner is obliged to sell the ground to us. The owner could sell to whosoever they wished and for whatever price they chose. They could also change their mind and not sell the ground at all.
The Valley is currently owned by Charlton Athletic Holdings Ltd which is itself owned by Baton UK and ultimately by Roland Duchatelet’s company Staprix NV. If Charlton Athletic Holdings Ltd is sold this would only amount to a change of shareholders of that company and would not amount to a disposal of The Valley. In that case there would be no obligation on the owner to inform the Royal Borough and no opportunity for any community bid to be made. This would only arise in the event of a planned disposal to a third party not connected to the club.
So is it really worth it?
The main advantage of AVC status is that it stops disposal of the asset on the quiet. It means that you can’t turn up for a drink at The White Swan or The Bugle Horn one evening to discover that it has been sold to a developer and is now closed pending conversion into a nail bar. You have the opportunity to gain publicity and galvanise local opinion against the sale. Sure, the owner can ignore the publicity and dispose of the property anyway but at least you have had a chance to try to exert some influence.
It would be the same with The Valley and it isn’t hard to imagine the outcry that would be raised locally and nationally if it was revealed that the ground was being disposed of against the wishes of supporters. There would be vigorous opposition and loud public protest. There would be a lot of bad publicity for the owner. He could, of course, simply ignore it all and proceed with the disposal once the moratorium was over but who knows what might transpire during that six months? It certainly beats turning up for a game and being handed a piece of paper and a map of South Norwood.
To my mind there is a second advantage to ACV status for our ground. It is a symbol. It is a statement on behalf of local people and their representatives in the Town Hall that The Valley matters. That it is seen as a site which delivers social benefit and community value both through the staging of Charlton games and the club’s associated community work. That it strengthens community cohesion and provides employment opportunities. That it drives income towards local businesses. That it is a source of civic pride for Greenwich residents."
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Thank you for this very full answer, @Pico . Interesting to read again the rationale behind applying for the AVC.
When I asked what the AVC covered, I was referring more to the west carpark, and training ground & whether they will also be covered in the new AVC. Of course the stadium & pitch is the key item!0 -
What a ridiculous situatuon whereby there is a forced gap between protection.
Well done to the trust for trying their best to keep this up to date, not at all surprised to read The RBG are cocking it up though.7 -
The previous ACV status didn't include the car park but our current application does.
It is only for The Valley - not the training ground1 -
Thanks @Pico ; that's good news about the car park, after the earlier info that the possibility of residential development on that site has been investigated.
If there are grounds for doing so (CACT?), I wonder if it would be a good idea in future to try for a separate AVC for Sparrows Lane. It would mean that there would still be gaps in cover when the AVCs were renewed, but never for both of them at the same time, which would add a little extra aggravation to an owner wanting to separate club from real estate assets.1 -
I am sure the trust will be giving that serious consideration, N01R4M.N01R4M said:Thanks @Pico ; that's good news about the car park, after the earlier info that the possibility of residential development on that site has been investigated.
If there are grounds for doing so (CACT?), I wonder if it would be a good idea in future to try for a separate AVC for Sparrows Lane. It would mean that there would still be gaps in cover when the AVCs were renewed, but never for both of them at the same time, which would add a little extra aggravation to an owner wanting to separate club from real estate assets.
I know that the local politicians would give this serious consideration, Clive Efford has long advocated that training grounds should be considered, nothing stopping the trust applying for this at any time, and with the absurd 'time lag' which I cannot see a logical reason for, as the club supported the original nomination, as well as several other local politicians from all political parties when I worked on the original application, even the current housing minister, MP for Bexley supported it, and the excellent community work that goes on there, it is a good proposal,2 -
IT'S ACV (not AVC) repeat 100 times...2
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I agree and as above think this is a) a good idea and b) likely to be successfulN01R4M said:Thanks @Pico ; that's good news about the car park, after the earlier info that the possibility of residential development on that site has been investigated.
If there are grounds for doing so (CACT?), I wonder if it would be a good idea in future to try for a separate AVC for Sparrows Lane. It would mean that there would still be gaps in cover when the AVCs were renewed, but never for both of them at the same time, which would add a little extra aggravation to an owner wanting to separate club from real estate assets.1
