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The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
Comments
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Looking at our squad as it stands I’m not sure about that!JamesSeed said:
Statistically we are far, far more likely to get to the Premier League than any of us are to win the lottery though.se9addick said:
I hate then “it’s like buying a house...” analogies but the directors loans are like buying a house with existing loans/charges secured against it that are only redeemable if you win the jackpot on the lottery. In that scenario I’m not sure you’d be hugely fussed and it might be better to put your (finite) resources to better use.JamesSeed said:
Yes, by the spivs and Roland Duchâtelet, which you’ll agree is a pretty low benchmark. Buying the club without sorting the loans would be like buying a house with some outstanding loans secured on the buildings. You’d have to be a bit crazy to do that. The Aussies have always asked for clean title.Airman Brown said:
And yet the club has been sold twice already, in 2010 and 2014, without them being sorted.JamesSeed said:
Sorry to be banging on about this, but the sale can’t happen without the loans being sorted.cafcfan1990 said:
Doesn’t mean it’s the thing holding up the deal.JamesSeed said:
So you’re saying the Directors’ loans aren’t holding things up? Surely, if the Directors haven’t been approached, then the loans can’t have been dealt with.Airman Brown said:
No, we don’t agree on that. And neither do the ex-directors.JamesSeed said:
You know, at this stage it’s best to concentrate on what we know for sure.Airman Brown said:
Agree with 1) but I think all the evidence on 2) is that they put the paperwork in to the EFL last May and then couldn’t follow through.Todds_right_hook said:
Do you know it they couldn’t or wouldn’t? So much of the info we’ve received over the last two years about paperwork and the EFL has been sketchy. If the Directors’ loans haven’t been addressed, for example, could that affect the paperwork, or their willingness to submit it?
Either way, we can agree the Directors’ loans are holding things up. Roland says it’s the Directors’ fault. The Directors say it’s Roland’s. If it is Roland (which most think likely) then why is he doing it? And what can be done about it?
if you wanted to lever them into cutting a deal on the loans, isn’t this exactly what you’d tell them?
I know this whole thing is frustrating but pretty sure we have been through this hundreds of times.
And as the loans haven’t been sorted they are, at very least, contributing to the sale not been completed.
And yes, it’s frustrating.
There is a concerted effort going on involving Gerard Murphy, Richard Murray and Roland Duchatelet to try to get the three ex-directors not named to take a financial hit. That’s what the statement is about.
So as I’ve said, the sorting out of the loans are holding up the sale of the club.
Roland doesn’t want to pay them off in full, and would like it if we blamed someone else for that, whether it’s GM or the ex-Directors. Some of the ex Directors want repaying in full, others are happy to take a haircut in order to get their money back in advance of any future return to the Premier League.
Not blaming anyone here btw. I’d certainly want 100% back, despite the fact that I could pass away before we return to the Premier League.
Does anyone know if they all have be settled at the same rate (i.e. 100% or 50% or whatever). Or can some agree to take a hit, while others are repaid in full?
This situation has been ongoing for sometime by the sounds of it.1 -
Imagine our surprise.Airman Brown said:
There’s your answer then. It’s all about more money for Roland.JamesSeed said:
Its not a negotiating tool to get him to lower the price.Goonerhater said:Mr Seed i will be blunt,the loans tumour /spin is utter bollox ! They are to be paid back IF that's IF we ever get to the Prem. Again IF we ever get there then the amount to be repaid is tiny against the revenue that the Prem brings in.
It's a lie by RD to DEFLECT from his own utter incompetent ownership and more so his totally unrealistic asking price.
At the moment I'm wondering if RD and the Aussies are just using you in their negotiations to spin their version of BOLLOX.
If the Aussies don't want to pay the loans ---then don't---fall back on the "Prem agreement". If it's a negotiating tool to get RD to lower the price by £5 million it ISN'T working.
And Roland has raised the price.1 -
March fans’ forum minutes3 -
Small point but in his statement, Roly keeps referring to Charlton as 'Our' and 'we' - what a joke.0
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Only really trying to ask you to reveal all that you can as reading between the lines on an RD statement is not conclusive! Bottom line is I agree always the price. I assume now though it’s the last part of this negotiation asking these 3 to take a similar haircut to the others. Ill speculate maybe those named by RD don’t want this haircut unless it’s the same (percentage?) for all or the remaining 3 won’t concede at all and in which case the gap is somewhere around £2m for buyer and seller to agree on.Airman Brown said:
Not sure it’s that difficult to understand. Concerted effort on the three, involving direct contact, briefing of third parties against them and ultimately the Duchatelet statement, all in the last week.valleynick66 said:
So are you suggesting the 3 have been engaged or not ? David White said not beyond an initial approach about a possible conversation. You say concerted effort on the 3.Airman Brown said:
That’s the distinction, but it’s less to do with the individual amounts and more to do with the fact that they stick together as a group. There may be a good reason the Murphy group need clean title - for example individual investors insisting on it - but it’s equally likely to be a device to give Duchatelet more money from the sale and that he is being stubborn about that.cfgs said:
I think Airman is implying that effort is being made on the ones with serious money involved and those that might be problematic, the others have been relatively ignored.valleynick66 said:
Confused. David White said effectively no contact. You are now saying “concerted effort”. How does that square?Airman Brown said:
And yet the club has been sold twice already, in 2010 and 2014, without them being sorted.JamesSeed said:
Sorry to be banging on about this, but the sale can’t happen without the loans being sorted.cafcfan1990 said:
Doesn’t mean it’s the thing holding up the deal.JamesSeed said:
So you’re saying the Directors’ loans aren’t holding things up? Surely, if the Directors haven’t been approached, then the loans can’t have been dealt with.Airman Brown said:
No, we don’t agree on that. And neither do the ex-directors.JamesSeed said:
You know, at this stage it’s best to concentrate on what we know for sure.Airman Brown said:
Agree with 1) but I think all the evidence on 2) is that they put the paperwork in to the EFL last May and then couldn’t follow through.Todds_right_hook said:
Do you know it they couldn’t or wouldn’t? So much of the info we’ve received over the last two years about paperwork and the EFL has been sketchy. If the Directors’ loans haven’t been addressed, for example, could that affect the paperwork, or their willingness to submit it?
Either way, we can agree the Directors’ loans are holding things up. Roland says it’s the Directors’ fault. The Directors say it’s Roland’s. If it is Roland (which most think likely) then why is he doing it? And what can be done about it?
if you wanted to lever them into cutting a deal on the loans, isn’t this exactly what you’d tell them?
I know this whole thing is frustrating but pretty sure we have been through this hundreds of times.
And as the loans haven’t been sorted they are, at very least, contributing to the sale not been completed.
And yes, it’s frustrating.
There is a concerted effort going on involving Gerard Murphy, Richard Murray and Roland Duchatelet to try to get the three ex-directors not named to take a financial hit. That’s what the statement is about.
These investors gave CAFC money and left it in the club, when it really needed it. They never expected interest or a financial bonus, yet now years later they are expected to write off part of their money? That is disgusting whatever you think about the people involved.
“The former directors are holding up the sale”, which has been propagated this week by multiple routes, is a way of presenting the situation publicly in order to exert pressure on the individuals. Although it’s also a bit feeble, given the individuals concerned, and likely to be counter-productive.
Either way, the issue goes back to price, which is not being set by the ex-directors. Duchatelet, Muir or even Murray could all take this issue off the table if they chose, because it is well within their own resources.
One reason the statement is so clumsy is that RD is warning the three that they will be publicly criticised for stopping the deal and the fans that he is only staying because of them in order to try to ramp pressure on them to settle.0 -
July 2018 fans’ forum minutes8 -
We can all speculate, and some are closer to others at the club, but with RD, nobody really knows what’s going on as he probably spouts this same crap to Murray and co.
It’s taken 2 years, and my gut just says we are closer than we’ve been before to actually being sold.
I’m not ITK but I feel more positive than I have for quite a while.
Everything is crossed that we get it done before the end of June so we can revise contract offers to Aribo, Bauer and JW.
get the rebuilding process moving.
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With 50.1k comments and a seat for every comment we have now filled The Stadium of Light and about 2.3k short of filling St James Park.3
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1670, The Hudson's Bay Company is founded.0
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I was trying to find that. So how will LDT explain it at the next fans forum? There weren’t any issues but almost a year later there are?Airman Brown said:
July 2018 fans’ forum minutes3 -
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Probably because many of us realise that just chanting “support the team” isn’t much use in the medium term unless the owner does so as well.AFKABartram said:Seems we are back to micro analysing details without anyone really knowing whether those details are the real issue or not.
Weve been in a similar round to this about 6 or 7 times over the last two years. I’ve absolutely no idea why some people wrap themselves up so much in it.
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Airman, I think you stated previously, that there was a condition about an extra payment if the buyers reached the Championship - which has now been removed. Is it possible that that payment has now been added if the Premiership is achieved, and that payment PLUS the ex-directors loans are not acceptable to the buyers, so they want the directors loans paid now.
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Equally arguing about "he said she said" on an Internet forum isn't much use either. But here we are approaching 1700 pages, of which, the majority has been mainly that. Some people enjoy it, some people don't.Airman Brown said:
Probably because many of us realise that just chanting “support the team” isn’t much use in the medium term unless the owner does so as well.AFKABartram said:Seems we are back to micro analysing details without anyone really knowing whether those details are the real issue or not.
Weve been in a similar round to this about 6 or 7 times over the last two years. I’ve absolutely no idea why some people wrap themselves up so much in it.0 -
I feel many contributors to this thread are spending too much time trying to find a logical explanation for Roland’s behaviour, when there is very possibly a medical reason why he does not – and probably never has – behaved in a “normal” way in interpersonal relationships.
There have been many indicators – including a Belgian press interview with his life-partner Marieke Höfte, in which she commented on his problems reading the thoughts and motives of others. If he does lack this skill, it will inevitably affect the way he conducts all aspects of business at Charlton, from Bowyer’s contract to the former directors’ loans, and the sale of the club.
Look at the evidence:
– his constant harping on about the crazy financial world of football, which is hardly an incentive for a prospective purchaser
– his disrespect towards fans (98% of whom he contends do not support the protests) while at the same time clearly expecting them to pay up for season tickets
– his lack of forward planning when it comes to contracts for players and playing-side staff
– his lack of appreciation of the effect on the morale of employees of petty cost-cutting measures, and even more his welshing on staff bonuses (although he was genuinely angered by this being publicised in St-T where he has many employees, probably on similar contracts!)
– his fixation on ideas such as the protests being due to disgruntled former employees wanting their jobs back. Maybe this is an emotion he has felt earlier in his life and therefore ascribes it to others because he cannot conceive an alternative narrative? Or was it an explanation given to him by Meire or Murrey?
– his inability to understand fan culture, because his motivator is financial profit. For him, if L1 makes smaller losses than the Championship, then L1 is better than the Championship
– his original assumption he could move players round his network like pieces on a chess board, as if they wouldn’t have preferences where they lived and worked
– his curious decision to ditch the existing plans to upgrade the academy, which I believe was largely to be funded by grants, and replace it with the current expensive & unfinished result. I’m convinced there is more to this than meets the eye… Was he trying to slip in a future commercial enterprise in the hope it would get past the plannng authorities, as he did in St-T?
– his assumption that the former directors would be willing to accept a settlement of less than 100% of their debentures, and throwing his toys out of the pram when some/most decline his offer
Accept that he is being entirely Roland-centred, unable to see things from others’ viewpoint, and maybe things become clearer. He wants to protect his ego. He wants the financial benefits of promotion without the costs.
And so do any potential buyers!
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I really don’t think that’s true though. I do not think any party has come close to Roland’s price.Hartleypete said:To be honest it's fairly simple one, party has agreed a price for the club with clean title.
One party wants to sell the club but the price is not enough for him to get what he wants and repay former directors loans.
Will somebody give, doubtful if the past is anything to go by.
Answer nothing's really changed.
I suspect the Aussies have spent money on the deal and are willing to wait until Roland reduces his crazy price. I also think they are back at the table because we are now a Championship club.
Stubborn or not at some point Roland will sell and for a price significantly lower than what he wants. Our only hope in that time is that we are still a Championship club.
People are getting carried away with this ex directors loans. I don’t doubt that it’s a talking point but the reason they haven’t been properly spoken to is because no deal for the club has been agreed IMO.2 -
June 30th 2019, Charlton Athletic's Paradise Lost is published by VOTV.happyvalley said:1667, John Milton's Paradise Lost is published.5 -
The Aussies believe they are very close to a deal and that’s the reason for all the noise. However, as we all know, this has been the case, on and off, for more than 18 months. RD has moved the goalposts post-Wembley and even if they were to secure a deal with the ex-directors there is no guarantee he won’t move them again.cafcfan1990 said:
I really don’t think that’s true though. I do not think any party has come close to Roland’s price.Hartleypete said:To be honest it's fairly simple one, party has agreed a price for the club with clean title.
One party wants to sell the club but the price is not enough for him to get what he wants and repay former directors loans.
Will somebody give, doubtful if the past is anything to go by.
Answer nothing's really changed.
I suspect the Aussies have spent money on the deal and are willing to wait until Roland reduces his crazy price. I also think they are back at the table because we are now a Championship club.
Stubborn or not at some point Roland will sell and for a price significantly lower than what he wants. Our only hope in that time is that we are still a Championship club.
People are getting carried away with this ex directors loans. I don’t doubt that it’s a talking point but the reason they haven’t been properly spoken to is because no deal for the club has been agreed IMO.cafcfan1990 said:
I really don’t think that’s true though. I do not think any party has come close to Roland’s price.Hartleypete said:To be honest it's fairly simple one, party has agreed a price for the club with clean title.
One party wants to sell the club but the price is not enough for him to get what he wants and repay former directors loans.
Will somebody give, doubtful if the past is anything to go by.
Answer nothing's really changed.
I suspect the Aussies have spent money on the deal and are willing to wait until Roland reduces his crazy price. I also think they are back at the table because we are now a Championship club.
Stubborn or not at some point Roland will sell and for a price significantly lower than what he wants. Our only hope in that time is that we are still a Championship club.
People are getting carried away with this ex directors loans. I don’t doubt that it’s a talking point but the reason they haven’t been properly spoken to is because no deal for the club has been agreed IMO.1 -
The Aussies don't have the funds.0
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It's like the worst groundhog day ever, a constant bloody loop of vacuous nonsense from our nut job of an owner..2
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I suspect it's more they're getting twitchy because we went up and there may be new interested parties with more clout.Airman Brown said:
The Aussies believe they are very close to a deal and that’s the reason for all the noise. However, as we all know, this has been the case, on and off, for more than 18 months. RD has moved the goalposts post-Wembley and even if they were to secure a deal with the ex-directors there is no guarantee he won’t move them again.cafcfan1990 said:
I really don’t think that’s true though. I do not think any party has come close to Roland’s price.Hartleypete said:To be honest it's fairly simple one, party has agreed a price for the club with clean title.
One party wants to sell the club but the price is not enough for him to get what he wants and repay former directors loans.
Will somebody give, doubtful if the past is anything to go by.
Answer nothing's really changed.
I suspect the Aussies have spent money on the deal and are willing to wait until Roland reduces his crazy price. I also think they are back at the table because we are now a Championship club.
Stubborn or not at some point Roland will sell and for a price significantly lower than what he wants. Our only hope in that time is that we are still a Championship club.
People are getting carried away with this ex directors loans. I don’t doubt that it’s a talking point but the reason they haven’t been properly spoken to is because no deal for the club has been agreed IMO.cafcfan1990 said:
I really don’t think that’s true though. I do not think any party has come close to Roland’s price.Hartleypete said:To be honest it's fairly simple one, party has agreed a price for the club with clean title.
One party wants to sell the club but the price is not enough for him to get what he wants and repay former directors loans.
Will somebody give, doubtful if the past is anything to go by.
Answer nothing's really changed.
I suspect the Aussies have spent money on the deal and are willing to wait until Roland reduces his crazy price. I also think they are back at the table because we are now a Championship club.
Stubborn or not at some point Roland will sell and for a price significantly lower than what he wants. Our only hope in that time is that we are still a Championship club.
People are getting carried away with this ex directors loans. I don’t doubt that it’s a talking point but the reason they haven’t been properly spoken to is because no deal for the club has been agreed IMO.0 -
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Who says? We don’t really know anything about their current structure or plan.Valley27000 said:The Aussies don't have the funds.
All seems to be fluid like RD and his ever moving goal posts0 -
I think if that was all there Is to it then you wouldn’t have seen the same narrative on the official website from Duchatelet.carly burn said:
I suspect it's more they're getting twitchy because we went up and there may be new interested parties with more clout.Airman Brown said:
The Aussies believe they are very close to a deal and that’s the reason for all the noise. However, as we all know, this has been the case, on and off, for more than 18 months. RD has moved the goalposts post-Wembley and even if they were to secure a deal with the ex-directors there is no guarantee he won’t move them again.cafcfan1990 said:
I really don’t think that’s true though. I do not think any party has come close to Roland’s price.Hartleypete said:To be honest it's fairly simple one, party has agreed a price for the club with clean title.
One party wants to sell the club but the price is not enough for him to get what he wants and repay former directors loans.
Will somebody give, doubtful if the past is anything to go by.
Answer nothing's really changed.
I suspect the Aussies have spent money on the deal and are willing to wait until Roland reduces his crazy price. I also think they are back at the table because we are now a Championship club.
Stubborn or not at some point Roland will sell and for a price significantly lower than what he wants. Our only hope in that time is that we are still a Championship club.
People are getting carried away with this ex directors loans. I don’t doubt that it’s a talking point but the reason they haven’t been properly spoken to is because no deal for the club has been agreed IMO.cafcfan1990 said:
I really don’t think that’s true though. I do not think any party has come close to Roland’s price.Hartleypete said:To be honest it's fairly simple one, party has agreed a price for the club with clean title.
One party wants to sell the club but the price is not enough for him to get what he wants and repay former directors loans.
Will somebody give, doubtful if the past is anything to go by.
Answer nothing's really changed.
I suspect the Aussies have spent money on the deal and are willing to wait until Roland reduces his crazy price. I also think they are back at the table because we are now a Championship club.
Stubborn or not at some point Roland will sell and for a price significantly lower than what he wants. Our only hope in that time is that we are still a Championship club.
People are getting carried away with this ex directors loans. I don’t doubt that it’s a talking point but the reason they haven’t been properly spoken to is because no deal for the club has been agreed IMO.1 -
So Airman says the Aussies believe they are very close to a deal but they actually don’t have the money ? I’m not that bright but there seems to me to be a problem here.Valley27000 said:The Aussies don't have the funds.3 -
His mistakes and mismanagement are nothing to do with them, the ex-directors. Their's were interest free while his are at 3% interest. Their's were in good faith to help save the club while he has sabatourged it.
The way I see it on how he sees it is:
Why should they(the ex directs) get all of their money back when he's not getting all of his back, or all he wants back?
It's petulism. Pure and simple.
They are Charlton fans while he doesn't give a shit.
The list could go on.11 -
Depends on how you read it I suppose.Airman Brown said:
I think if that was all there Is to it then you wouldn’t have seen the same narrative on the official website from Duchatelet.carly burn said:
I suspect it's more they're getting twitchy because we went up and there may be new interested parties with more clout.Airman Brown said:
The Aussies believe they are very close to a deal and that’s the reason for all the noise. However, as we all know, this has been the case, on and off, for more than 18 months. RD has moved the goalposts post-Wembley and even if they were to secure a deal with the ex-directors there is no guarantee he won’t move them again.cafcfan1990 said:
I really don’t think that’s true though. I do not think any party has come close to Roland’s price.Hartleypete said:To be honest it's fairly simple one, party has agreed a price for the club with clean title.
One party wants to sell the club but the price is not enough for him to get what he wants and repay former directors loans.
Will somebody give, doubtful if the past is anything to go by.
Answer nothing's really changed.
I suspect the Aussies have spent money on the deal and are willing to wait until Roland reduces his crazy price. I also think they are back at the table because we are now a Championship club.
Stubborn or not at some point Roland will sell and for a price significantly lower than what he wants. Our only hope in that time is that we are still a Championship club.
People are getting carried away with this ex directors loans. I don’t doubt that it’s a talking point but the reason they haven’t been properly spoken to is because no deal for the club has been agreed IMO.cafcfan1990 said:
I really don’t think that’s true though. I do not think any party has come close to Roland’s price.Hartleypete said:To be honest it's fairly simple one, party has agreed a price for the club with clean title.
One party wants to sell the club but the price is not enough for him to get what he wants and repay former directors loans.
Will somebody give, doubtful if the past is anything to go by.
Answer nothing's really changed.
I suspect the Aussies have spent money on the deal and are willing to wait until Roland reduces his crazy price. I also think they are back at the table because we are now a Championship club.
Stubborn or not at some point Roland will sell and for a price significantly lower than what he wants. Our only hope in that time is that we are still a Championship club.
People are getting carried away with this ex directors loans. I don’t doubt that it’s a talking point but the reason they haven’t been properly spoken to is because no deal for the club has been agreed IMO.
Could've been another come and get us plea.1 -
I wonder how much the ex-directors lost prior to these loans, should that be factored in? I believe Chapel lost circa £15M, and in a short space of time.Covered End said:Well I'm quite certain he thinks that & said that to my son an hour ago. If he's losing 50% he probably thinks they should too, or perhaps he feels if he's gonna lose £35M they should write it all off?3 -
Listen mate,seth plum said:If the Australians take over I will be first in line for buying season tickets.
Over the last two years they have spent too much time with their hands in their pockets ball tampering and will surely take us down, under the present "who's got 2 million to join our Aussie consortium" idea of taking over a football club.
Aussie rules ok, but they seem stuck between a big rock and a hard place. We keep boomeranging between the Ex directors loans and the high Price.
Despite Duchatelet being a Drongo, he's outback and a recluse from the valley.
Strewth this Sale of Charlton is taking longer than a roo on the hop from Sydney to Perth.
G'day
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I don't expect it's the Aussies themselves that want clean title I expect it's whoever is financing them
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James you have been saying for a long while and up until very recently, that GM will discuss with you nothing business related.JamesSeed said:
It’s not a negotiating tool to get him to lower the price.Goonerhater said:Mr Seed i will be blunt,the loans tumour /spin is utter bollox ! They are to be paid back IF that's IF we ever get to the Prem. Again IF we ever get there then the amount to be repaid is tiny against the revenue that the Prem brings in.
It's a lie by RD to DEFLECT from his own utter incompetent ownership and more so his totally unrealistic asking price.
At the moment I'm wondering if RD and the Aussies are just using you in their negotiations to spin their version of BOLLOX.
If the Aussies don't want to pay the loans ---then don't---fall back on the "Prem agreement". If it's a negotiating tool to get RD to lower the price by £5 million it ISN'T working.
Roland has raised the price.
Yet barely a week later you are giving this board the impression that GM is telling you the ins and outs?
Which is it please ?
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The outs ;-)Covered End said:
James you have been saying for a long while and up until very recently, that GM will discuss with you nothing business related.JamesSeed said:
It’s not a negotiating tool to get him to lower the price.Goonerhater said:Mr Seed i will be blunt,the loans tumour /spin is utter bollox ! They are to be paid back IF that's IF we ever get to the Prem. Again IF we ever get there then the amount to be repaid is tiny against the revenue that the Prem brings in.
It's a lie by RD to DEFLECT from his own utter incompetent ownership and more so his totally unrealistic asking price.
At the moment I'm wondering if RD and the Aussies are just using you in their negotiations to spin their version of BOLLOX.
If the Aussies don't want to pay the loans ---then don't---fall back on the "Prem agreement". If it's a negotiating tool to get RD to lower the price by £5 million it ISN'T working.
Roland has raised the price.
Yet barely a week later you are giving this board the impression that GM is telling you the ins and outs?
Which is it please ?5
This discussion has been closed.
