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80 Years Ago Today .. Germany Invaded Poland
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still to finish it .. so far, I find it superbly researched and written .. the type of book you can read in small 'chunks' .. enjoy (when you get round to it lol) ..ForeverAddickted said:
Have that book myself on my Reader... Keep meaning to get round to it as have heard rave reviewsUboat said:
I've just read 'The Silk Roads' by Peter Frankopan, which is a superb book. It has a brilliant chapter on the long term causes of the FWW and I think that war was coming one way or another, although there was a brief moment where it could have been UK and Germany v Russia.ForeverAddickted said:
You can probably date back all the troubles from today to the moment that Gavrilo Princip assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinandgolfaddick said:I'm no historian but WW2 stemed from the axis powers decisions after WW1. I saw a TV programme recently that said the French wanted even more draconian measures but the USA werent happy. The treaty of Versailles was the start of it all.
Had that event not happened then I imagine the world today would be very different
Thats not to say though that another death wouldnt have triggered it all what with the World Powers just itching to start WW1ForeverAddickted said:
Have that book myself on my Reader... Keep meaning to get round to it as have heard rave reviewsUboat said:
I've just read 'The Silk Roads' by Peter Frankopan, which is a superb book. It has a brilliant chapter on the long term causes of the FWW and I think that war was coming one way or another, although there was a brief moment where it could have been UK and Germany v Russia.ForeverAddickted said:
You can probably date back all the troubles from today to the moment that Gavrilo Princip assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinandgolfaddick said:I'm no historian but WW2 stemed from the axis powers decisions after WW1. I saw a TV programme recently that said the French wanted even more draconian measures but the USA werent happy. The treaty of Versailles was the start of it all.
Had that event not happened then I imagine the world today would be very different
Thats not to say though that another death wouldnt have triggered it all what with the World Powers just itching to start WW1
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SoundAsa£.If you have seen the Film,The Train, Burt Lancaster,Paul Scofield brilliant black and white photography early 60,s is about The Gestapo trying to get famous paintings back to Germanyfrom France.3
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Anyway, the 'anniversary' is past. Just a couple of observations.
It has been estimated by more than one authority that a staggering 25% of Poles were slaughtered during WW2, that's just the German victims, who knows how many were killed by the NKVD during the Russian occupation in the east. For example the Katyn forest massacre of an estimated 22,000 Polish army officers and intellectuals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
The German army, not just the SS, was given free reign to rape, loot and murder. The Wehrmacht was just as culpable as any other German organization for mass murders in Poland and throughout eastern Europe.
Now, in 2019, Germany is the leading power in the EU. I would go further and say that the Germans run most of Europe. It has achieved this not through guns, bombs, armies and slaughter but through controlling European economies through the Euro and by the mass production of consumer durables for which east Europeans have been craving since soviet occupation.
All this whilst sheltering under the US nuclear umbrella during the soviet era. Now Germany is pals with Russia once more and is dependant on Russian gas pumped along pipelines from the vast Russian gas fields' https://www.thelocal.de/20180328/german-authorities-approve-gas-pipeline-from-russia
One last point .. one of the main EU yes men and opponents of Britain leaving the EU is Donald Tusk, a Pole, dutifully serving his German mistress, Merkel. He ought to be ashamed of himself
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Its certainly something of history that amuses me if thats the right wordLincsaddick said:Anyway, the 'anniversary' is past. Just a couple of observations.
It has been estimated by more than one authority that a staggering 25% of Poles were slaughtered during WW2, that's just the German victims, who knows how many were killed by the NKVD during the Russian occupation in the east. For example the Katyn forest massacre of an estimated 22,000 Polish army officers and intellectuals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
The German army, not just the SS, was given free reign to rape, loot and murder. The Wehrmacht was just as culpable as an German organization for mass murders.
Now, in 2019, Germany is the leading power in the EU. I would go further and say that the Germans run most of Europe. It has achieved this not through guns, bombs, armies and slaughter but through controlling European economies through the Euro and by the mass production of consumer durables for which east Europeans have been craving since soviet occupation.
All this whilst sheltering under the US nuclear umbrella during the soviet era. Now Germany is pals with Russia once more and is dependant on Russian gas pumped along pipelines from the vast Russian gas fields' https://www.thelocal.de/20180328/german-authorities-approve-gas-pipeline-from-russia
One last point .. one of the main EU yes men and opponents of Britain leaving the EU is Donald Tusk, a Pole, dutifully serving his German mistress, Merkel. He ought to be ashamed of himself
The other is that one reason Napoleon tried to take over Europe was to beat the British into submission that we all followed the Napoleonic way - Well we eventually stopped it happening but only 11-miles from where the EU now meet which is pretty much a modern day version of said Napoleonic Code1 -
and now of course the French are 'in bed' with the Germans, I wonder who plays the vicar and who the tart in that relationship ? .. the ambitions of two of the most dangerous dictators of the last two hundred years (we'll leave Lenin, Stalin and Mao out of this) Bonaparte and Hitler have come to fruition, control of Europe. In fact this goes all the way back to Charlemagne, but THAT is another subject (or is it ?)ForeverAddickted said:
Its certainly something of history that amuses me if thats the right wordLincsaddick said:Anyway, the 'anniversary' is past. Just a couple of observations.
It has been estimated by more than one authority that a staggering 25% of Poles were slaughtered during WW2, that's just the German victims, who knows how many were killed by the NKVD during the Russian occupation in the east. For example the Katyn forest massacre of an estimated 22,000 Polish army officers and intellectuals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
The German army, not just the SS, was given free reign to rape, loot and murder. The Wehrmacht was just as culpable as an German organization for mass murders.
Now, in 2019, Germany is the leading power in the EU. I would go further and say that the Germans run most of Europe. It has achieved this not through guns, bombs, armies and slaughter but through controlling European economies through the Euro and by the mass production of consumer durables for which east Europeans have been craving since soviet occupation.
All this whilst sheltering under the US nuclear umbrella during the soviet era. Now Germany is pals with Russia once more and is dependant on Russian gas pumped along pipelines from the vast Russian gas fields' https://www.thelocal.de/20180328/german-authorities-approve-gas-pipeline-from-russia
One last point .. one of the main EU yes men and opponents of Britain leaving the EU is Donald Tusk, a Pole, dutifully serving his German mistress, Merkel. He ought to be ashamed of himself
The other is that one reason Napoleon tried to take over Europe was to beat the British into submission that we all followed the Napoleonic way - Well we eventually stopped it happening but only 11-miles from where the EU now meet which is pretty much a modern day version of said Napoleonic CodeForeverAddickted said:
Its certainly something of history that amuses me if thats the right wordLincsaddick said:Anyway, the 'anniversary' is past. Just a couple of observations.
It has been estimated by more than one authority that a staggering 25% of Poles were slaughtered during WW2, that's just the German victims, who knows how many were killed by the NKVD during the Russian occupation in the east. For example the Katyn forest massacre of an estimated 22,000 Polish army officers and intellectuals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
The German army, not just the SS, was given free reign to rape, loot and murder. The Wehrmacht was just as culpable as an German organization for mass murders.
Now, in 2019, Germany is the leading power in the EU. I would go further and say that the Germans run most of Europe. It has achieved this not through guns, bombs, armies and slaughter but through controlling European economies through the Euro and by the mass production of consumer durables for which east Europeans have been craving since soviet occupation.
All this whilst sheltering under the US nuclear umbrella during the soviet era. Now Germany is pals with Russia once more and is dependant on Russian gas pumped along pipelines from the vast Russian gas fields' https://www.thelocal.de/20180328/german-authorities-approve-gas-pipeline-from-russia
One last point .. one of the main EU yes men and opponents of Britain leaving the EU is Donald Tusk, a Pole, dutifully serving his German mistress, Merkel. He ought to be ashamed of himself
The other is that one reason Napoleon tried to take over Europe was to beat the British into submission that we all followed the Napoleonic way - Well we eventually stopped it happening but only 11-miles from where the EU now meet which is pretty much a modern day version of said Napoleonic Code
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Dastardly stuff the Napoleonic Codes...1
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Doesnt help that Napoleon was such a short arseLincsaddick said:
and now of course the French are 'in bed' with the Germans, I wonder who plays the vicar and who the tart in that relationship ? .. the ambitions of two of the most dangerous dictators of the last two hundred years (we'll leave Lenin, Stalin and Mao out of this) Bonaparte and Hitler have come to fruition, control of Europe. In fact this goes all the way back to Charlemagne, but THAT is another subject (or is it ?)ForeverAddickted said:
Its certainly something of history that amuses me if thats the right wordLincsaddick said:Anyway, the 'anniversary' is past. Just a couple of observations.
It has been estimated by more than one authority that a staggering 25% of Poles were slaughtered during WW2, that's just the German victims, who knows how many were killed by the NKVD during the Russian occupation in the east. For example the Katyn forest massacre of an estimated 22,000 Polish army officers and intellectuals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
The German army, not just the SS, was given free reign to rape, loot and murder. The Wehrmacht was just as culpable as an German organization for mass murders.
Now, in 2019, Germany is the leading power in the EU. I would go further and say that the Germans run most of Europe. It has achieved this not through guns, bombs, armies and slaughter but through controlling European economies through the Euro and by the mass production of consumer durables for which east Europeans have been craving since soviet occupation.
All this whilst sheltering under the US nuclear umbrella during the soviet era. Now Germany is pals with Russia once more and is dependant on Russian gas pumped along pipelines from the vast Russian gas fields' https://www.thelocal.de/20180328/german-authorities-approve-gas-pipeline-from-russia
One last point .. one of the main EU yes men and opponents of Britain leaving the EU is Donald Tusk, a Pole, dutifully serving his German mistress, Merkel. He ought to be ashamed of himself
The other is that one reason Napoleon tried to take over Europe was to beat the British into submission that we all followed the Napoleonic way - Well we eventually stopped it happening but only 11-miles from where the EU now meet which is pretty much a modern day version of said Napoleonic CodeForeverAddickted said:
Its certainly something of history that amuses me if thats the right wordLincsaddick said:Anyway, the 'anniversary' is past. Just a couple of observations.
It has been estimated by more than one authority that a staggering 25% of Poles were slaughtered during WW2, that's just the German victims, who knows how many were killed by the NKVD during the Russian occupation in the east. For example the Katyn forest massacre of an estimated 22,000 Polish army officers and intellectuals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
The German army, not just the SS, was given free reign to rape, loot and murder. The Wehrmacht was just as culpable as an German organization for mass murders.
Now, in 2019, Germany is the leading power in the EU. I would go further and say that the Germans run most of Europe. It has achieved this not through guns, bombs, armies and slaughter but through controlling European economies through the Euro and by the mass production of consumer durables for which east Europeans have been craving since soviet occupation.
All this whilst sheltering under the US nuclear umbrella during the soviet era. Now Germany is pals with Russia once more and is dependant on Russian gas pumped along pipelines from the vast Russian gas fields' https://www.thelocal.de/20180328/german-authorities-approve-gas-pipeline-from-russia
One last point .. one of the main EU yes men and opponents of Britain leaving the EU is Donald Tusk, a Pole, dutifully serving his German mistress, Merkel. He ought to be ashamed of himself
The other is that one reason Napoleon tried to take over Europe was to beat the British into submission that we all followed the Napoleonic way - Well we eventually stopped it happening but only 11-miles from where the EU now meet which is pretty much a modern day version of said Napoleonic Code
I wasnt that tall in school and could feel myself going the way of a crazed warlord but then got taller one summer and grew out of it!!2 -
didn't I read elsewhere that you're now 6' 5" .. (fuck metric) you sure have made up for lost time. Now not a crazed war monger, just a crazy AddickForeverAddickted said:
Doesnt help that Napoleon was such a short arseLincsaddick said:
and now of course the French are 'in bed' with the Germans, I wonder who plays the vicar and who the tart in that relationship ? .. the ambitions of two of the most dangerous dictators of the last two hundred years (we'll leave Lenin, Stalin and Mao out of this) Bonaparte and Hitler have come to fruition, control of Europe. In fact this goes all the way back to Charlemagne, but THAT is another subject (or is it ?)ForeverAddickted said:
Its certainly something of history that amuses me if thats the right wordLincsaddick said:Anyway, the 'anniversary' is past. Just a couple of observations.
It has been estimated by more than one authority that a staggering 25% of Poles were slaughtered during WW2, that's just the German victims, who knows how many were killed by the NKVD during the Russian occupation in the east. For example the Katyn forest massacre of an estimated 22,000 Polish army officers and intellectuals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
The German army, not just the SS, was given free reign to rape, loot and murder. The Wehrmacht was just as culpable as an German organization for mass murders.
Now, in 2019, Germany is the leading power in the EU. I would go further and say that the Germans run most of Europe. It has achieved this not through guns, bombs, armies and slaughter but through controlling European economies through the Euro and by the mass production of consumer durables for which east Europeans have been craving since soviet occupation.
All this whilst sheltering under the US nuclear umbrella during the soviet era. Now Germany is pals with Russia once more and is dependant on Russian gas pumped along pipelines from the vast Russian gas fields' https://www.thelocal.de/20180328/german-authorities-approve-gas-pipeline-from-russia
One last point .. one of the main EU yes men and opponents of Britain leaving the EU is Donald Tusk, a Pole, dutifully serving his German mistress, Merkel. He ought to be ashamed of himself
The other is that one reason Napoleon tried to take over Europe was to beat the British into submission that we all followed the Napoleonic way - Well we eventually stopped it happening but only 11-miles from where the EU now meet which is pretty much a modern day version of said Napoleonic CodeForeverAddickted said:
Its certainly something of history that amuses me if thats the right wordLincsaddick said:Anyway, the 'anniversary' is past. Just a couple of observations.
It has been estimated by more than one authority that a staggering 25% of Poles were slaughtered during WW2, that's just the German victims, who knows how many were killed by the NKVD during the Russian occupation in the east. For example the Katyn forest massacre of an estimated 22,000 Polish army officers and intellectuals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
The German army, not just the SS, was given free reign to rape, loot and murder. The Wehrmacht was just as culpable as an German organization for mass murders.
Now, in 2019, Germany is the leading power in the EU. I would go further and say that the Germans run most of Europe. It has achieved this not through guns, bombs, armies and slaughter but through controlling European economies through the Euro and by the mass production of consumer durables for which east Europeans have been craving since soviet occupation.
All this whilst sheltering under the US nuclear umbrella during the soviet era. Now Germany is pals with Russia once more and is dependant on Russian gas pumped along pipelines from the vast Russian gas fields' https://www.thelocal.de/20180328/german-authorities-approve-gas-pipeline-from-russia
One last point .. one of the main EU yes men and opponents of Britain leaving the EU is Donald Tusk, a Pole, dutifully serving his German mistress, Merkel. He ought to be ashamed of himself
The other is that one reason Napoleon tried to take over Europe was to beat the British into submission that we all followed the Napoleonic way - Well we eventually stopped it happening but only 11-miles from where the EU now meet which is pretty much a modern day version of said Napoleonic Code
I wasnt that tall in school and could feel myself going the way of a crazed warlord but then got taller one summer and grew out of it!!
There is a school of thought that Nappy was not so short as we're led to believe .. I'll put that down to pure French propaganda
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Napoleon was 5ft 8
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Hitler only had one ball0
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Some pretty weird interpretations on here.1
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The other is in the Albert HallShootersHillGuru said:Hitler only had one ball0 -
Goering had two, but they were small.0
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Himmler had something similarAddickted said:Goering had two, but they were small.0 -
But poor old Goebbels had no balls at all.
Ba doom tish!0 -
They don't write them like that anymore.1
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yes, exactly. Mussolini was a fascist, hitler a nazi. When you call, say, farage a fascist, his defenders point at hitler and say “well he’s not him”. That’s not what fascism is. Fascism is an Italian word, it was created by Mussolini (a former member of the socialist party) as an alternative to the rise of socialism, which the wealthy (some of whom were jews) backed. Mussolini did need a lot of poking by hitler to start deporting jews.MuttleyCAFC said:Hitler hated Jews, but Mussolini didn't and actually had Jewish supporters. Of course when he went to bed with Hitler, he was happy enough to cut them adrift. Anti-semitism wasn't a fascist requirement. It helps to give ignorant people real targets to blame, but nobody can be under any illusions that Hitler's hatred was genuine. Hitler had views about the purity and superiority of the Aryan race - so other races were inferior, some more inferior than others. Mussolini's fascism was around converting, by force, uncivilised people to be civilised like the Italians, much like the Romans did by creating British and French Romans etc...0 - Sponsored links:
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It was 'created' by the Romans.0
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If you’re talking about the actual word, “fasces” then, yes, you are correct. It means bundle of sticks in Latin, the Roman republic and Roman Empire was more of an oligarchy that then turned into a autocracy.Addickted said:It was 'created' by the Romans.0 -
I read this as SunderlandAddickted said:
The annexing of the Sudetenland is slightly different from the invasion of Poland.PragueAddick said:They had already invaded this country, but apparently that was kind of Ok, from a British perspective.
"Lest we forget" sometimes has a nuance of meaning, according to where in Europe you are...4 -
He may have needed prodding, but there were many Jews murdered in Italy.kentaddick said:
yes, exactly. Mussolini was a fascist, hitler a nazi. When you call, say, farage a fascist, his defenders point at hitler and say “well he’s not him”. That’s not what fascism is. Fascism is an Italian word, it was created by Mussolini (a former member of the socialist party) as an alternative to the rise of socialism, which the wealthy (some of whom were jews) backed. Mussolini did need a lot of poking by hitler to start deporting jews.MuttleyCAFC said:Hitler hated Jews, but Mussolini didn't and actually had Jewish supporters. Of course when he went to bed with Hitler, he was happy enough to cut them adrift. Anti-semitism wasn't a fascist requirement. It helps to give ignorant people real targets to blame, but nobody can be under any illusions that Hitler's hatred was genuine. Hitler had views about the purity and superiority of the Aryan race - so other races were inferior, some more inferior than others. Mussolini's fascism was around converting, by force, uncivilised people to be civilised like the Italians, much like the Romans did by creating British and French Romans etc...0 -
At 11am today, 80 years' ago we declared war on Germany. Didn't end well for them though.
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depends what you mean by 'end well' .. my opinion is that Germany now runs Europe (see above) .. Marshall aid has a lot to answer for .. the Americans were always keen on a strong West Germany as a bulwark/buffer against the Soviet Union .. and now, after unification, Germany is the main money lender and supplier of goodies and technical assistance to all the impoverished previous 'Warsaw Pact' countries. No-one 'likes' the Germans, but they are still universally admired and probably feared for their tenacity and cunning.addick05 said:At 11am today, 80 years' ago we declared war on Germany. Didn't end well for them though.addick05 said:At 11am today, 80 years' ago we declared war on Germany. Didn't end well for them though.
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for anyone still interested, this is the last in a series of five radio programmes attempting to show how the UK is perceived in different countries .. this one is about Poland .. 3/4 of an hour long, so be prepared ..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008432
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My god that’s a terrible view to hold. Doesn’t represent my view in any way, shape or form.Lincsaddick said:
depends what you mean by 'end well' .. my opinion is that Germany now runs Europe (see above) .. Marshall aid has a lot to answer for .. the Americans were always keen on a strong West Germany as a bulwark/buffer against the Soviet Union .. and now, after unification, Germany is the main money lender and supplier of goodies and technical assistance to all the impoverished previous 'Warsaw Pact' countries. No-one 'likes' the Germans, but they are still universally admired and probably feared for their tenacity and cunning.addick05 said:At 11am today, 80 years' ago we declared war on Germany. Didn't end well for them though.addick05 said:At 11am today, 80 years' ago we declared war on Germany. Didn't end well for them though.2 -
I like Patrick Bauer!1
