Thomas Cook - Gone
Comments
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As a tour operator running 2 small specialist travel companies, I have ATOL licenses for them both, lots of hoops to jump through to attain and then maintain, but it does protect both the client and the business financially.
Why anyone would book a package (i.e. more than one element of flight/ferry/accom/car/guide) with a tour operator not holding an ATOL I find amazing yet, a number of companies, especially in our field (history) are still able to legally operate without one.
The fall out from Thomas Cook's bankruptcy affects us all in the travel industry, overseas suppliers are nervous of UK companies and UK clients are hesitant to book in the current insecure political climate we find ourselves in.
None of our tours are reliant on TC but a number of our hotels/coach operators have, (had), a business relationship with them so I am expecting a long day/night/week ahead teleconferencing, meeting with and reassuring both clients and suppliers that their trips with us, between now and November are all ok.
This has without doubt been an annus horribilis for the travel industry with more pain to continue until we know exactly what direction we as a country, are going in.
The government were right not to back a rescue package with Thomas Cook as the hole they were in was too deep. Where they could improve is by closely working with our foreign trade partners in both Europe and further afield and then feeding back to us in the industry exactly what issues we may face in the future.
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Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
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Terrible news for the employees and customers, but the company had been struggling for years, whether due to its own mismanagement or to the massive change caused by the internet. Slightly surprised the Fosun rescue deal didn't go through (they're the owner of Wolves)snowinberlin said:Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
It's not the job of the government to rescue Thomas Cook, any more than it should have rescued BHS or HMV, this isn't a strategic national asset. If there still a market for package holidays, then smaller rivals will expand to fill the gap, and indeed may become more viable as a result. Over the years an awful lot of holiday companies have collapsed, it does seem to be that sort of sector...1 -
Should money be lent interest free?snowinberlin said:Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
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And there lies the problem highlighted in bold.snowinberlin said:Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
How did they get into such a mess to pay out £1.2b interest alone? Who's pocketed that interest and who's allowing it to happen? Why were people getting £20m dividends if the money wasn't there?
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Someone's stuck a Thomas Cook Boeing 747 on Facebook marketplace, did have a little giggle0
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Can people please stop posting reasonable and thought out views as to why TC has collapsed. It's the fault of Brexit, end of. No need to complicate things by thinking.2
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I’m in Turkey at the moment on a golfing holiday. We flew Thomas Cook last Friday. Booked as part of a package via Bilyana the Turkish golf holiday specialists. We’ve been worried for the last few days because of all the speculation. Now that it’s confirmed it feels like a bit of a relief. Rather than uncertainty we now need to enjoy our holiday (government advice) and wait to be told about our replacement flight. The system seems to be working so we are making the most of our all inclusive deal and cracking on. We’ll leave the worries till Friday when we are due to fly home. The Government has clearly been planning the repatriation effort for several weeks so I’m hopeful that we’ll be fine. We have travel insurance and are ATOL protected. The poor sods who work for TC have a lot more to worry about. I feel for them.
My my main issue is we were due home in the early hours of Saturday morning. If I miss the Leeds game I’ll be really pissed!0 -
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My Leeds mate has asked if he can have your ticket.Sillybilly said:I’m in Turkey at the moment on a golfing holiday. We flew Thomas Cook last Friday. Booked as part of a package via Bilyana the Turkish golf holiday specialists. We’ve been worried for the last few days because of all the speculation. Now that it’s confirmed it feels like a bit of a relief. Rather than uncertainty we now need to enjoy our holiday (government advice) and wait to be told about our replacement flight. The system seems to be working so we are making the most of our all inclusive deal and cracking on. We’ll leave the worries till Friday when we are due to fly home. The Government has clearly been planning the repatriation effort for several weeks so I’m hopeful that we’ll be fine. We have travel insurance and are ATOL protected. The poor sods who work for TC have a lot more to worry about. I feel for them.
My my main issue is we were due home in the early hours of Saturday morning. If I miss the Leeds game I’ll be really pissed!
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there have been reports about the perilous state of T C for months .. why was the company allowed to keep trading when it seemed obvious that the axe would fall sooner rather than later ?
As to the 'air armada' needed to repatriate the stranded tourists, TC has a fleet of aircraft which have been immediately grounded because of company law rules. Chaps, just fill the crates with gas, fly them out to the relevant destinations and save the long suffering tax player loadsa money.
Reports of hoteliers especially in North Africa literally holding stranded tourists for ransom until unjustified and extortionate 'bills' are paid. Send a few gunboats to shell and bomb the robbing bastards until our people are freed.
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why have Charlton lost the last 2 games ? .. BREXIT !! of courseDRAddick said:Can people please stop posting reasonable and thought out views as to why TC has collapsed. It's the fault of Brexit, end of. No need to complicate things by thinking.
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The gunboats are too busy stopping the refugees crossing the Channel.2
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You don't think it's the job of Government to control aggressive capitalism which result in ordinary people losing jobs, the taxpayer (i.e. you and me) to pick up the pieces, and wealth being squeezed out of companies and into the pockets of shareholders, hedge funds and rogue private equity firms?killerandflash said:
Terrible news for the employees and customers, but the company had been struggling for years, whether due to its own mismanagement or to the massive change caused by the internet. Slightly surprised the Fosun rescue deal didn't go through (they're the owner of Wolves)snowinberlin said:Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
It's not the job of the government to rescue Thomas Cook, any more than it should have rescued BHS or HMV, this isn't a strategic national asset. If there still a market for package holidays, then smaller rivals will expand to fill the gap, and indeed may become more viable as a result. Over the years an awful lot of holiday companies have collapsed, it does seem to be that sort of sector...0 -
You do think it's the governments job to subsidise holidays abroad for the medium income population and mass polluting air travel? I don't see how, in this case, you can have your argument with out adding mine?snowinberlin said:
You don't think it's the job of Government to control aggressive capitalism which result in ordinary people losing jobs, the taxpayer (i.e. you and me) to pick up the pieces, and wealth being squeezed out of companies and into the pockets of shareholders, hedge funds and rogue private equity firms?killerandflash said:
Terrible news for the employees and customers, but the company had been struggling for years, whether due to its own mismanagement or to the massive change caused by the internet. Slightly surprised the Fosun rescue deal didn't go through (they're the owner of Wolves)snowinberlin said:Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
It's not the job of the government to rescue Thomas Cook, any more than it should have rescued BHS or HMV, this isn't a strategic national asset. If there still a market for package holidays, then smaller rivals will expand to fill the gap, and indeed may become more viable as a result. Over the years an awful lot of holiday companies have collapsed, it does seem to be that sort of sector...
Oh and do you have any form of private or employer pension? If so it's into that that these profits are "squeezed". Who do you think the "shareholders" and "hedge funds" are?0 -
Even Jeremy Corbyn wouldn't agree with you.snowinberlin said:
You don't think it's the job of Government to control aggressive capitalism which result in ordinary people losing jobs, the taxpayer (i.e. you and me) to pick up the pieces, and wealth being squeezed out of companies and into the pockets of shareholders, hedge funds and rogue private equity firms?killerandflash said:
Terrible news for the employees and customers, but the company had been struggling for years, whether due to its own mismanagement or to the massive change caused by the internet. Slightly surprised the Fosun rescue deal didn't go through (they're the owner of Wolves)snowinberlin said:Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
It's not the job of the government to rescue Thomas Cook, any more than it should have rescued BHS or HMV, this isn't a strategic national asset. If there still a market for package holidays, then smaller rivals will expand to fill the gap, and indeed may become more viable as a result. Over the years an awful lot of holiday companies have collapsed, it does seem to be that sort of sector...2 -
Actually he and his shadow chancellor probably wouldCovered End said:
Even Jeremy Corbyn wouldn't agree with you.snowinberlin said:
You don't think it's the job of Government to control aggressive capitalism which result in ordinary people losing jobs, the taxpayer (i.e. you and me) to pick up the pieces, and wealth being squeezed out of companies and into the pockets of shareholders, hedge funds and rogue private equity firms?killerandflash said:
Terrible news for the employees and customers, but the company had been struggling for years, whether due to its own mismanagement or to the massive change caused by the internet. Slightly surprised the Fosun rescue deal didn't go through (they're the owner of Wolves)snowinberlin said:Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
It's not the job of the government to rescue Thomas Cook, any more than it should have rescued BHS or HMV, this isn't a strategic national asset. If there still a market for package holidays, then smaller rivals will expand to fill the gap, and indeed may become more viable as a result. Over the years an awful lot of holiday companies have collapsed, it does seem to be that sort of sector...0 -
I doubt it. The issue with Thomas Cook, and this would be an assessment made by any government, is around the chances it will solve the problem. It isn't the £200k which was required last night, it will cost the government a lot anyway, but the further amounts that will be inevitable in the case of this company. We all know the reason why. It is essentially the same reason that shops like Woolworths are no more in this country. Their day has been and gone and the model is no longer viable.
It is very sad for the employees and holiday makers put out. I have seen stories of marriages where guests booked with a different company and can get to the destination but the bride and Groom can't. Awful!2 - Sponsored links:
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well if you're asking me to choose one or the other then yes, i'd rather people didn't lose money, holidays and a handful of wealthy backers made a packet out of it. The Government, or us taxpayers will pay far more cleaning up the mess, less tax and NI revenue to exchequer and then welfare support.Cafc43v3r said:
You do think it's the governments job to subsidise holidays abroad for the medium income population and mass polluting air travel? I don't see how, in this case, you can have your argument with out adding mine?snowinberlin said:
You don't think it's the job of Government to control aggressive capitalism which result in ordinary people losing jobs, the taxpayer (i.e. you and me) to pick up the pieces, and wealth being squeezed out of companies and into the pockets of shareholders, hedge funds and rogue private equity firms?killerandflash said:
Terrible news for the employees and customers, but the company had been struggling for years, whether due to its own mismanagement or to the massive change caused by the internet. Slightly surprised the Fosun rescue deal didn't go through (they're the owner of Wolves)snowinberlin said:Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
It's not the job of the government to rescue Thomas Cook, any more than it should have rescued BHS or HMV, this isn't a strategic national asset. If there still a market for package holidays, then smaller rivals will expand to fill the gap, and indeed may become more viable as a result. Over the years an awful lot of holiday companies have collapsed, it does seem to be that sort of sector...
Oh and do you have any form of private or employer pension? If so it's into that that these profits are "squeezed". Who do you think the "shareholders" and "hedge funds" are?
why does the fact people have private pensions have to do with it? that somehow to have a decent pension someone else have to suffer? I'm pretty sure my pension fund is invested in reputable funds that promote economic growth and prosperity, with companies that abide by corporate Social Responsibility rather than rogue funds praying on short term gains. The reason Government should get involved is to ensure it's not a game of winners and losers and the wealth gap gets ever wider0 -
In this case the shareholders and debtholders will massively lose, but that's how capitalism works. Thomas Cook wasn't driven out of business by crooks, it's far more like HMV which got undone by poor management decisions and significant changes in the marketplace caused by the internet.Cafc43v3r said:
You do think it's the governments job to subsidise holidays abroad for the medium income population and mass polluting air travel? I don't see how, in this case, you can have your argument with out adding mine?snowinberlin said:
You don't think it's the job of Government to control aggressive capitalism which result in ordinary people losing jobs, the taxpayer (i.e. you and me) to pick up the pieces, and wealth being squeezed out of companies and into the pockets of shareholders, hedge funds and rogue private equity firms?killerandflash said:
Terrible news for the employees and customers, but the company had been struggling for years, whether due to its own mismanagement or to the massive change caused by the internet. Slightly surprised the Fosun rescue deal didn't go through (they're the owner of Wolves)snowinberlin said:Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
It's not the job of the government to rescue Thomas Cook, any more than it should have rescued BHS or HMV, this isn't a strategic national asset. If there still a market for package holidays, then smaller rivals will expand to fill the gap, and indeed may become more viable as a result. Over the years an awful lot of holiday companies have collapsed, it does seem to be that sort of sector...
Oh and do you have any form of private or employer pension? If so it's into that that these profits are "squeezed". Who do you think the "shareholders" and "hedge funds" are?
And yes it would be awkward for politicians of all sides but especially the left to talk about how we need to drastically reduce our carbon footprint, but then bail out a company with a massive carbon footprint. Indeed while awful news for those who will now lose holidays they've waited all year for and worked hard for, it's undeniably good news for the planet if cutting CO2 emissions is the number 1 priority.1 -
Other companies will fill the gaps. In the case of the high street, I think rents have to be drastically cut, as well as car parking charges. but I can't see that happening.0
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MuttleyCAFC said:Other companies will fill the gaps. In the case of the high street, I think rents have to be drastically cut, as well as car parking charges. but I can't see that happening.It won't help. The High Street for shopping is dead - the internet has killed it.High Streets will be (as someone said above) charity shops, coffee bars, restaurants/fast food, and very niche one-off shops. Plus hairdressers until someone invents a way to get your haircut online!1
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Anna_Kissed said:
I had a witty response to your post but half way through writing it realised it would be as boring as your constant diatribe...
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You can’t get a haircut online but you can find a hairdresser online to come to your home, thus saving you the hassle of going to a salon, parking etc.. After all you only need a chair, a plug and some easily portable tools.bobmunro said:MuttleyCAFC said:Other companies will fill the gaps. In the case of the high street, I think rents have to be drastically cut, as well as car parking charges. but I can't see that happening.It won't help. The High Street for shopping is dead - the internet has killed it.High Streets will be (as someone said above) charity shops, coffee bars, restaurants/fast food, and very niche one-off shops. Plus hairdressers until someone invents a way to get your haircut online!1 -
Where do you think pensions are invested? Adel and Co who deliver you veg box once a week? The biggest owners on the stock market are pension funds, who hedge your funds. Clues in the name.snowinberlin said:
well if you're asking me to choose one or the other then yes, i'd rather people didn't lose money, holidays and a handful of wealthy backers made a packet out of it. The Government, or us taxpayers will pay far more cleaning up the mess, less tax and NI revenue to exchequer and then welfare support.Cafc43v3r said:
You do think it's the governments job to subsidise holidays abroad for the medium income population and mass polluting air travel? I don't see how, in this case, you can have your argument with out adding mine?snowinberlin said:
You don't think it's the job of Government to control aggressive capitalism which result in ordinary people losing jobs, the taxpayer (i.e. you and me) to pick up the pieces, and wealth being squeezed out of companies and into the pockets of shareholders, hedge funds and rogue private equity firms?killerandflash said:
Terrible news for the employees and customers, but the company had been struggling for years, whether due to its own mismanagement or to the massive change caused by the internet. Slightly surprised the Fosun rescue deal didn't go through (they're the owner of Wolves)snowinberlin said:Jints said:
What profiteers? There's no private equity or asset stripping involved here. TC has been losing money for years now. It took on massive debts to keep the business going and got investment from China. The banks refused to lend any more money and so it is now in administration. Everyone loses here - the banks, Fosun (the Chinese investor) and of course TC employees and customers.Oggy Red said:
The Government won't do anything.snowinberlin said:The Government should do alot more. It's another case where a big company suffers financially then is at the mercy of the Banks or private equity firms who suck all the value out of it, so they could be making profits but it's all going on extortionate interest payments, these private equity firms come in and charge huge admin fees and interest until they are totally unviable then dump them into administration. It shouldn't be allowed to happen when thousands of jobs are at stake and then less consumer choice in the future
I can't believe a big firm with more than 100,000 customers at any one time is a failing business
They represent and act in the interests of the profiteers.
But not the victims.Thomas Cook only narrowly survived a near-death experience in 2011. Its debt pile had already reached £1.1bn, and it stayed afloat only after an emergency additional cash injection - but it also meant even more debt to service.
Since 2011 Thomas Cook has paid out £1.2bn in interest, which meant that more than a quarter of the money it charged for the 11m holidays it sold every year went into the pockets of lenders.
There was – for a couple of years at least – a corporate saviour, in the form of Chinese group Fosun International, run by Guo Guangchang, a billionaire regarded as China’s Warren Buffett.
Fosun bought its first stake in Thomas Cook in 2015, as part of a plan to build a global holiday and entertainment conglomerate, having already taken over France’s Club Med and Canada’s Cirque de Soleil.
In August Thomas Cook published details of a planned restructure, which included a £450m cash injection from Fosun in return for a majority stake in the group – which also required the banks to write off £1.7bn in debt. Other existing shareholders would be wiped out.
It's not the job of the government to rescue Thomas Cook, any more than it should have rescued BHS or HMV, this isn't a strategic national asset. If there still a market for package holidays, then smaller rivals will expand to fill the gap, and indeed may become more viable as a result. Over the years an awful lot of holiday companies have collapsed, it does seem to be that sort of sector...
Oh and do you have any form of private or employer pension? If so it's into that that these profits are "squeezed". Who do you think the "shareholders" and "hedge funds" are?
why does the fact people have private pensions have to do with it? that somehow to have a decent pension someone else have to suffer? I'm pretty sure my pension fund is invested in reputable funds that promote economic growth and prosperity, with companies that abide by corporate Social Responsibility rather than rogue funds praying on short term gains. The reason Government should get involved is to ensure it's not a game of winners and losers and the wealth gap gets ever wider
No its probably not right but its a fact. The single biggest loosers of removing ownership from current share holders are pension holders. Yours, mine, our families. Who is going to compensate US?
I would love to know who provides your pension with the confidence you display that it's so ethical.0 -
I’m curious to understand the idea that anyone profited from TC’s demise. The stock is now worthless by definition and the bonds collapsed today. A few smart hedge funds shorted the stock but bear in mind their potential losses were infinite but their potential gains capped, hardly egregious capitalism at its worst.0
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Yeah but government, greed, capitalism, share holders, blah blah blahnewyorkaddick said:I’m curious to understand the idea that anyone profited from TC’s demise. The stock is now worthless by definition and the bonds collapsed today. A few smart hedge funds shorted the stock but bear in mind their potential losses were infinite but their potential gains capped, hardly egregious capitalism at its worst.
Your 100% right BTW but you can't tell some people.0
