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The pennants of Charlton Athletic
Henry Irving
Posts: 85,477
In the 1930s, 40s and 50s Charlton were often invited, and paid large sums, to visit teams abroad in Europe, Asia and both North and South America.
A common feature of such games was the host team giving Charlton a pennant, a tradition that continues to this day as Sunderland gave us just such an item in May. We didn't have one to give back.
Those pennants from the 1930s to 50s, when as a top flight English side we were seen as a big name, were long lost, disappearing like much else of our history somewhere unknown.
That is until now.
Two weeks ago we were contacted by someone in Cornwall who had 24 pennants and who wanted to sell them.
Thanks to the hard work of @charltonnick and the generosity of so many of you on here we had enough funds to pay a four figure sum for them all.
How they reached Cornwall we aren't sure.
They had belonged to a John Finch who had moved from London to Bristol in the 1970s. How he came by them we don't know. Was he a fan? Who gave or sold them to him? We would love to know. The seller, his nephew in law didn't know.
But we now have them and need to find the best way to display these unique items and tell the story of games and trips to which they are linked.
They don't cover all the overseas trips of that era so either there was no pennant exchanged or there are more out there.
And it begs the question; do the museum's of those clubs still treasure and display a Charlton Athletic pennant.
A common feature of such games was the host team giving Charlton a pennant, a tradition that continues to this day as Sunderland gave us just such an item in May. We didn't have one to give back.
Those pennants from the 1930s to 50s, when as a top flight English side we were seen as a big name, were long lost, disappearing like much else of our history somewhere unknown.
That is until now.
Two weeks ago we were contacted by someone in Cornwall who had 24 pennants and who wanted to sell them.
Thanks to the hard work of @charltonnick and the generosity of so many of you on here we had enough funds to pay a four figure sum for them all.
How they reached Cornwall we aren't sure.
They had belonged to a John Finch who had moved from London to Bristol in the 1970s. How he came by them we don't know. Was he a fan? Who gave or sold them to him? We would love to know. The seller, his nephew in law didn't know.
But we now have them and need to find the best way to display these unique items and tell the story of games and trips to which they are linked.
They don't cover all the overseas trips of that era so either there was no pennant exchanged or there are more out there.
And it begs the question; do the museum's of those clubs still treasure and display a Charlton Athletic pennant.
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Comments
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These pennants were expensive so if you like them and are pleased they are now back where they belong then maybe you'd like to help refill our coffers by donating either via our bank account
Natwest
Charlton Athletic Museum
Sort Code 60 16 03
Acct No 7377 2593
Or via PayPal to our email
cafchistorian@gmail.com
Or, if you are a company, individual or supporters' group you might want to sponsor the pennants and have your name linked to their display. Contact us via that same email.
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Enough already. You want to see the pennants.
First up one of the two oldest and probably one of the most expensive if ever put up auction, which they won't be.
In 1937 Charlton toured the US and Canada, often running up cricket (or baseball maybe) scores.
Two pennants have survived.
This game is listed in Home and Away and being v Chicago although the pennant and the programme we have both showed it as Illinois State All Stars.
Goals from Tadman, Robinson, Boulter and Hobbis gave us a 4 - 1 win
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That is a wonderful item
You never mentioned the program
Did this come with it ?
It would be great to find the history of these and how this collection came about?
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What a wonderful purchase.
A "4 figure sum" initially sounds a lot, but for context it would not surprise me, had we commissioned a pennant to exchange with Sunderland, that it might have cost a 3 figure sum since it would have been a one-off item. Add to that the history of these old pennants, and they sound excellent value.
I look forwards to seeing further pictures!
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One of our trustees, Paul Baker, has a huge programme collection going back to before WW1 and has all the 1937 tour programme.
floydroadfaithfull said:That is a wonderful item
You never mentioned the program
Did this come with it ?
It would be great to find the history of these and how this collection came about?
The Museum has a few of them which belonged to former player Monty Wilkinson, who was on the tour.
We also have from Monty's collection these items which we think were table decorations from the informal dinner.
The photo. also from the Wilkinson collection donated to the museum by his son, is of the players on the ship on the way over. Monty is front row with his legs crossed. He saw active service in the far east in WW2 and never played professional football again.
I also have this tour badge
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It was a hard collection to value as there isn't an established market as there is for shirts, medals or clubs. The seller is happy with the price and pleased that they have gone to the museum. We think we paid a fair price.N01R4M said:What a wonderful purchase.
A "4 figure sum" initially sounds a lot, but for context it would not surprise me, had we commissioned a pennant to exchange with Sunderland, that it might have cost a 3 figure sum since it would have been a one-off item. Add to that the history of these old pennants, and they sound excellent value.
I look forwards to seeing further pictures!
More photos to come.4 -
This is the 2nd oldest of our new collection of pennants.
From the same 1937 tour of the USA and Canada.
This game v an USFA select XI was played at the Polo Grounds, the baseball stadium just north of Central Park. The Yankees and Met both played there decades apart but it is mainly known as the home of the New York (now San Francisco) Giants. It was demolished in 1964 when the Mets moved to Shea Stadium.
Charlton won this game 4 - 0 (Welsh (2), Tadman, Boulter)
Programme again from the Baker collection. Note how the programme doesn't match the pennant.
Again from the Monty Wilkinson collection some memorabilia from the Empress of Australia ocean liner. Signed by various players
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That's it for now.
WW2 is going to limit our overseas trips for a few years.
See you in 19465 -
The John Finch gentleman, would he be anything to do with the old retailer Finches Sports of Forest Hill?
There may be a goldmine of Charlton memories to be tracked down, because I seem to recall that for a period of time Finches used to video Charlton matches and sell the videos.
I wonder if any poster here ever bought one.
The real holy grail yet to be tracked down is the original RRR recording where Billy Cotton and his boys spelt out 'Addicks' at the end of the song.0 -
Brilliant purchase.2
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Sponsored links:
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Could be.seth plum said:The John Finch gentleman, would he be anything to do with the old retailer Finches Sports of Forest Hill?
There may be a goldmine of Charlton memories to be tracked down, because I seem to recall that for a period of time Finches used to video Charlton matches and sell the videos.
I wonder if any poster here ever bought one.
The real holy grail yet to be tracked down is the original RRR recording where Billy Cotton and his boys spelt out 'Addicks' at the end of the song.
By coincidence, the Museum have just loaned and copied two old finches videos.
Not watched them yet but would love to find more.0 -
Wow I loved reading all of that.. how interesting and I’d love to see them in person.
Have to get down to the museum again soon....
Also, sent a small donation... every little helps
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I think you'll find it's spelled pedant4
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Thanks, every donation is welcomeDoctorCharlton said:Wow I loved reading all of that.. how interesting and I’d love to see them in person.
Have to get down to the museum again soon....
Also, sent a small donation... every little helps 0 -
Why am I not surprised?Henry Irving said:...a tradition that continues to this day as Sunderland gave us just such an item in May. We didn't have one to give back...
Anyway well done on getting the pennants.0 -
I want that badge!Henry Irving said:
One of our trustees, Paul Baker, has a huge programme collection going back to before WW1 and has all the 1937 tour programme.floydroadfaithfull said:That is a wonderful item
You never mentioned the program
Did this come with it ?
It would be great to find the history of these and how this collection came about?
The Museum has a few of them which belonged to former player Monty Wilkinson, who was on the tour.
We also have from Monty's collection these items which we think were table decorations from the informal dinner.
The photo. also from the Wilkinson collection donated to the museum by his son, is of the players on the ship on the way over. Monty is front row with his legs crossed. He saw active service in the far east in WW2 and never played professional football again.
I also have this tour badge1 -
it is a thing of beautystonemuse said:
I want that badge!Henry Irving said:
One of our trustees, Paul Baker, has a huge programme collection going back to before WW1 and has all the 1937 tour programme.floydroadfaithfull said:That is a wonderful item
You never mentioned the program
Did this come with it ?
It would be great to find the history of these and how this collection came about?
The Museum has a few of them which belonged to former player Monty Wilkinson, who was on the tour.
We also have from Monty's collection these items which we think were table decorations from the informal dinner.
The photo. also from the Wilkinson collection donated to the museum by his son, is of the players on the ship on the way over. Monty is front row with his legs crossed. He saw active service in the far east in WW2 and never played professional football again.
I also have this tour badge1 -
I think the penance of Charlton Athletic is supporting them for the last fifty years.0
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That was the jokeAddicksAddict said:I think the penance of Charlton Athletic is supporting them for the last fifty years.2 -
Those online ads are getting a little too clever...HI posts along the lines that’s it for now, WWII will limit the overseas trips, see you in 1946...and next there’s an ad for trips to Germany...1
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Sponsored links:
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Whereas I then got an ad for a computer wargame. As much use to me as a chocolate teapot - and I don't even drink tea!0
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Henry Irving said:
Could be.seth plum said:The John Finch gentleman, would he be anything to do with the old retailer Finches Sports of Forest Hill?
There may be a goldmine of Charlton memories to be tracked down, because I seem to recall that for a period of time Finches used to video Charlton matches and sell the videos.
I wonder if any poster here ever bought one.
The real holy grail yet to be tracked down is the original RRR recording where Billy Cotton and his boys spelt out 'Addicks' at the end of the song.
By coincidence, the Museum have just loaned and copied two old finches videos.
Not watched them yet but would love to find more.
Henry … I have some of the old Finches videos. I'll venture into the loft at Rudd Towers later today.
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I saw who'd started the thread and thought exactly the same thing!church-lane said:I think you'll find it's spelled pedant1 -
The US and Canada trip was not our first time overseas.
We played 2 games in Belgium in 1924 and drew 3-3 with a Dutch National XI in 1931. We also played France, as a late replacement for fascist Italy, in 1937, winning 5-2 in Paris.
We are considering writing to the Dutch and French FAs asking if they fancy another go at beating Charlton. I reckon Jason Euell and his U23s team could give them a game.
There was also a 1938 trip to Stockholm to play AIK, which we drew 3 - 3, but there are no pennants (that we know of) from those games.
After the 1939 - 45 war was over we recommenced games abroad.
We visited Paris again where we faced Racing Club on 22 May 1946 winning 6 - 2. We would play them again in 1953 (slightly closer only winning 3-2) but we don't know which game this pennant is from. Now an amateur club following financial problems Racing were one of the top French clubs at the time.
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This extract from manager Jimmy Seed's match diaries shows the team & scorers. Unusually for Seed, he was happy with his team's performance as he's often very critical of both team and individuals in these, then, private comments. Even for the 1947 cup final his player comments (an early version of @lancashire lad 's player marks) he describes some players as "poor".
The museum now owns these invaluable diaries of which this is an extract. Scanning all the books, as well as the board minutes, has been a major task and a major cost which is why we so appreciate all the financial support we get from Charlton Lifers and elsewhere.
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Dave Rudd said:Henry Irving said:
Could be.seth plum said:The John Finch gentleman, would he be anything to do with the old retailer Finches Sports of Forest Hill?
There may be a goldmine of Charlton memories to be tracked down, because I seem to recall that for a period of time Finches used to video Charlton matches and sell the videos.
I wonder if any poster here ever bought one.
The real holy grail yet to be tracked down is the original RRR recording where Billy Cotton and his boys spelt out 'Addicks' at the end of the song.
By coincidence, the Museum have just loaned and copied two old finches videos.
Not watched them yet but would love to find more.
Henry … I have some of the old Finches videos. I'll venture into the loft at Rudd Towers later today.
Look forward to seeing those @Dave_Rudd
I've asked the family about any connection to Finches but not heard back yet @seth_plum1 -
So we are in the summer of 1946.
We've just lost the Cup Final but as a top flight English side we are still in demand.
Almost immediately after the game in Paris against Racing Club (see above) on 22 May, Jimmy Seed and a squad of players took a boat called the Saga to Sweden on 25 May arriving on 27 May.
13 players travelled and two more (Welsh and Johnson) flew over later. Also in the party were Seed, Trotter, club Doctor, Dr Montgomery, Albert Gliksten and Walter Head.
The team stayed at the Grand Hotel for a week before playing the first game on 4 June v IFK Norrkoping, the league and cup holders.
We drew 2 - 2 in front of 16,000 fans. Seed in his usual brutal analysis writes in his diary that the team played "very poorly".
The next day the squad move on to Södertälje, a "suburb" of Stockholm to stay in the Park Hotel which seed called "A proper dump".
Charlton played AIK Stockholm and were 4-0 up at half time. AIK pulled one back but with 25 minutes to go we are winning 7 - 1. According to @JamesSeed the "ref gave two wrong decisions" and the game turned. The defenders Turner and Shreeve were "much too slow" and were "overwhelmed" and the 12,000 crowd saw the game end 7 - 7. Seed called it the "biggest upheaval of form I have ever known". The Huddersfield game is 11 years away.
The next stop was the Stora Hotel (no comment from Seed so must have been OK) in Jonkoping where 6,600 saw Charlton face the local side. "played rather well and won 5 - 3" writes Seed.
All very good but no pennants have survived from any of these games.
The last game of the tour we played Malmo, then and now one of the top sides in Sweden.
Again we started well and were winning 3 - 0 at half time. Again the local side came back and made it 3 - 3 only for Chris Duffy to hit a winner in the last few minutes
The pennant from this game has survived and now, along with 23 others, has been purchased by the Charlton Athletic Museum for a four figure sum and will soon be on display in the museum (next open this Saturday 12 October 12 to 3.00)
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These tours were important financially to Charlton in an era before TV or sponsorship income.
It appears from this rough account that we earned £500 for each game. In context the maximum wage then for players was £20 per week.
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£60 gratuity to the police at customs ! sounds dodgy5
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The ref who they were unhappy with in the AIK games was also the Head of Customs. He did them a "favour" on taking items back to the heavily rationed UK.0
