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The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
Comments
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My worry is about the money.
Reading about the people involved the worse case scenario (which is not necessarily going to happen) is a complex gamble by people who don't necessarily have the club at heart as a sporting institution, and it leads to a Boltonesque situation.
We have a decent stadium, crowd potential, are well seated in the community and have a really excellent player development system. In addition we have a football management and organisation structure with impressive people involved, a long way from Russell (Mr Patient) Slade for example.
Reading about the complex background of the people involved I think we might get into a too many cooks scenario, the meal served could be a dog's dinner that ends in the bin. There seems to be a background of loads of projects started and left unfinished with a degree of spin applied and certain things tucked away. The VoTV piece on the individuals is worth a read not because it is in any way opinionated, but sets out facts without embellishment.
The question remains why these people and why them and Charlton particularly.
I am not yet convinced that the finances are secure and reliable and worry about a rob Peter to pay Paul scenario where debts spin out of control with no safety net beyond the book value of the Valley.
I want to be wrong and believe we will be run and owned by people who husband resources well, and realise that the actual returns come from sustained football success not ducking and diving. As @ElfsborgAddick says, maybe one has to keep counsel for a year, or at least until the first accounts are published under any new regime.
I do believe that we have to be free of Duchatelet in any case, the situation as it stands is unsustainable, but we have been twice bitten and understandably have become three times shy4 -
I understand you need to write this stuff to shift copies but you are in danger here of creating animosity towards the new ownership before they've even got a foot through the door.Airman Brown said:
Conjecture? I don’t think so.carly burn said:
Jesus mate. That's all conjecture. And not a single word on the real money man.lancashire lad said:
read the current VoTVcarly burn said:
Go on then Lancs. What's the particular problem with this lot then, in your humble opinion?lancashire lad said:
no I won'tcarly burn said:
Mother Theresa, Tony Hart and Mary Berry are lining up a bid for Newcastle. Sorry to disappoint.lancashire lad said:https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/dec/09/agent-saif-rubie-banned-for-six-weeks-and-fined-over-improper-use-of-twitter
if this is the same Saif Rubie, as in the Guardian article, is the type of person we want involved with our club. I repeat that I am not at all happy with who is taking over our club.
Get used to it.
Airman just whipping up a bit of caution, mainly because it's not Varney involved ;-)
Think you need to chill out a bit and see where this is really heading before you condemn this lot to the Belgian bin.
I’ve not offered a definitive view on this takeover because I don’t have one, but the link to the 2010 takeover bid which involved the convicted fraudster Paul Anthony Garland and which was described in parliament as involving “a bunch of crooks” is not conjecture.
Neither is Matt Southall’s appearance with Laurence Bassini in April - you can find the pictures of them together in the ground if you look. Bassini was banned for three years for his earlier activities at Watford.
I’ve only published the stories I can substantiate myself but there are others, as the wider media is aware and so, no doubt, are the EFL, but that doesn’t mean the takeover won’t be ratified. And we make the best of whatever happens, is my view. But it isn’t conjecture.
You of all people should know the importance of ridding Duchatelet from this club. You've told us enough times!
Your piece has already received one reaction from a fan that they do not want the new party anywhere near it.
Beggars can't be choosers, and we are begging
As I said earlier, you've fired a few shots at Southall and Itsmyball but not even a blank at Nimer and Heller, and they are the two that are really important. Itsmyball is just a middle man and Southall is more than likely just a face with no financial tie in whatsoever.
Michael Slater would have probably shot his granny and sold her on eBay if she was worth a few quid. God alone knows the pies he had fingers in. But he had a pretty good relationship with the fans all the while Kevin Cash was stumping up financially.. Times were good.
The big story here is Nimer and to some extent Heller. How much are they willing to stump up and how long are they planning on sticking around?
The rest is just noise imo.
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For all our sanity's this takeover needs to happen soon. At this rate some will be protesting against ESI before they have even bought the club.8
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I initially believed Nimer was at the game yesterday. Turns out he wasn't (?). Now I don't play Call Of Instagram, but the series of links to those things is starting to irritate and confuse.1
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Under the current ownership and situation we are one relegation away from falling into obscurity and possibly winding up.seth plum said:My worry is about the money.
Reading about the people involved the worse case scenario (which is not necessarily going to happen) is a complex gamble by people who don't necessarily have the club at heart as a sporting institution, and it leads to a Boltonesque situation.
We have a decent stadium, crowd potential, are well seated in the community and have a really excellent player development system. In addition we have a football management and organisation structure with impressive people involved, a long way from Russell (Mr Patient) Slade for example.
Reading about the complex background of the people involved I think we might get into a too many cooks scenario, the meal served could be a dog's dinner that ends in the bin. There seems to be a background of loads of projects started and left unfinished with a degree of spin applied and certain things tucked away. The VoTV piece on the individuals is worth a read not because it is in any way opinionated, but sets out facts without embellishment.
The question remains why these people and why them and Charlton particularly.
I am not yet convinced that the finances are secure and reliable and worry about a rob Peter to pay Paul scenario where debts spin out of control with no safety net beyond the book value of the Valley.
I want to be wrong and believe we will be run and owned by people who husband resources well, and realise that the actual returns come from sustained football success not ducking and diving. As @ElfsborgAddick says, maybe one has to keep counsel for a year, or at least until the first accounts are published under any new regime.
I do believe that we have to be free of Duchatelet in any case, the situation as it stands is unsustainable, but we have been twice bitten and understandably have become three times shy
We had no other concrete evidence anybody else wanted to touch the club with a bargepole.
This is our only hope I believe and seems a good one.1 -
Seems so, just bloody crazy.Off_it said:
Too late, its looks like they already are.1905 said:For all our sanity's this takeover needs to happen soon. At this rate some will be protesting against ESI before they have even bought the club.
At least wait until end January when we will have a better understanding.
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calm down dear(s)...
Always sensible to do some digging about new ownership so anyone doing that should be commended.
No one is suggesting protest, but if there was no dirt to dig that dirt couldn’t be dug.
Trust no one in the world of football finance, but hope for the best.18 -
There’s likely to be ‘dirt’ everywhere. It only matters if it is damaging.razil said:calm down dear(s)...
Always sensible to do some digging about new ownership so anyone doing that should be commended.
No one is suggesting protest, but if there was no dirt to dig that dirt couldn’t be dug.
Trust no one in the world of football finance, but hope for the best.
Despite the doomsayers, I’ve seen nothing yet to suggest Nimer and Heller are a problem.5 -
Roland out!0
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Only in Charlton land .0
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No not only in Charlton land. Absolutely nothing wrong with fans doing due diligence.5
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Nothing wrong with the fans doing due diligence, providing what they say is factual.5
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YepBlackheathboy said:Nothing wrong with the fans doing due diligence, providing what they say is factual.0 -
Didn't they state on the original announcement that they will be actively engaging with fans at the highest level. Surely if they follow through with this promise then it will be easier to make them accountable for their actions, unlike the existing sham of a fans forum.3
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I don't like RD or the way that he has run the club but if you look at the situation we have:
On The Plus Side
a club not running up debt
a good young management team who left to get on with only minimum interference
A group of players which most of us were happy after the first 4 weeks of the season
On the Minus Side
A management team with very short contracts
A set of players decimated by injuries
A striker who is underpaid for his ability
An owner who doesn't visit the Valley - so what?
Anyone with any business sense would have LB etc on a short contract if they wish to sell and you can't blame the owner for the injury situation.
I wish to see the back of RD but am concerned that we are getting owners who have ulterior motives and will interfere with our management structure because they think that they know better with their strange ways.
The purpose of a good fanzine is to tell stuff about the club as the result of good journalism and that is what Rick has done in VoTV and I hope he continues doing it. There is no point in accepting new owners if they are no better than the current ones, even if they do hire a top PR company to gloss their takeover, what is behind that gloss - we don't know and it is a worry.
Right that's me lot, I'm off out for the day!1 -
CheshireAddick said:Didn't they state on the original announcement that they will be actively engaging with fans at the highest level. Surely if they follow through with this promise then it will be easier to make them accountable for their actions, unlike the existing sham of a fans forum.
The Fans' Forum isn't a sham, the management is.
Yes, they said that and everything they've done so far points in the right direction including my own limited, but positive and fast response, interaction with them.
Fingers crossed but the puddings not even, officially, in the oven yet.0 -
Where have fans said anything not factual ?1
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I sometimes wonder that unless we get some sort of communist/hippy/commune-style ownership some people just aren't gonna be happy.
I wonder what Derek Hatton and Arthur Scargill are up to these days? Maybe we could persuade them to join a consortium with Ken Livingstone and Len McCluskey?12 -
You seem to have left quite a few things off the "minus" column there .....lancashire lad said:I don't like RD or the way that he has run the club but if you look at the situation we have:
On The Plus Side
a club not running up debt
a good young management team who left to get on with only minimum interference
A group of players which most of us were happy after the first 4 weeks of the season
On the Minus Side
A management team with very short contracts
A set of players decimated by injuries
A striker who is underpaid for his ability
An owner who doesn't visit the Valley - so what?
Anyone with any business sense would have LB etc on a short contract if they wish to sell and you can't blame the owner for the injury situation.
I wish to see the back of RD but am concerned that we are getting owners who have ulterior motives and will interfere with our management structure because they think that they know better with their strange ways.
The purpose of a good fanzine is to tell stuff about the club as the result of good journalism and that is what Rick has done in VoTV and I hope he continues doing it. There is no point in accepting new owners if they are no better than the current ones, even if they do hire a top PR company to gloss their takeover, what is behind that gloss - we don't know and it is a worry.
Right that's me lot, I'm off out for the day!13 - Sponsored links:
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Good luck with Arthur Scargill2
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Sorry Henry, your right, the management is. I didnt mean the fans themselves :-)Henry Irving said:CheshireAddick said:Didn't they state on the original announcement that they will be actively engaging with fans at the highest level. Surely if they follow through with this promise then it will be easier to make them accountable for their actions, unlike the existing sham of a fans forum.
The Fans' Forum isn't a sham, the management is.
Yes, they said that and everything they've done so far points in the right direction including my own limited, but positive and fast response, interaction with them.
Fingers crossed but the puddings not even, officially, in the oven yet.1 -
Picketing the pearly gatesOff_it said:I sometimes wonder that unless we get some sort of communist/hippy/commune-style ownership some people just aren't gonna be happy.
I wonder what Derek Hatton and Arthur Scargill are up to these days? Maybe we could persuade them to join a consortium with Ken Livingstone and Len McCluskey?1 -
Has he still got his luxury flat in the Barbican that he tried to buy under Thatchers "right to buy" scheme even though the NUM were paying the rent?ShootersHillGuru said:Good luck with Arthur Scargill1 -
Corbyn available?Off_it said:I sometimes wonder that unless we get some sort of communist/hippy/commune-style ownership some people just aren't gonna be happy.
I wonder what Derek Hatton and Arthur Scargill are up to these days? Maybe we could persuade them to join a consortium with Ken Livingstone and Len McCluskey?0 -
Southall had his family out with him in the public eye yesterday, you’d really hope this wasn’t all dodgy. Just can’t see it.17
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Got agree with this in the main. But (theres always a but) - why are they buying Charlton? As others have already stated - they are not Charlton fans, they don't have the historic or emotional connection (but that may come). It worries me a bit that they are called East Street Investments. You only invest in something if you want an eventual return on your capital. As we all know people can invest in stocks and shares, ISAs, etc, etc. A lot depends on your risk appetite to get the best returns. I would say investing in a Championship club and expecting a return is a risky strategy. Look at the massive failures over the years of clubs that have thrown millions at trying to get to the promised land of the Premier League - and failed. So, if their strategy is to invest in the club with a goal of making the EPL in 2-3 years it is risky and costly. Really unsure why anyone would want to do this. If you have the money that the new owners are supposed to have then there are easier and less risky ways to invest. We all know that re-developing the valley is a non-starter for several reasons - so it would be great to see what their plans are...Redmidland said:Before we start condemning ESI, let the takeover happen and sit back and see what happens. We've had 6 years of Roland and perhaps we have become slightly 'anti-owners' especially after the 'spivs' as well. However Im prepared to see where this new chapter take us and how it unravels. The positives for me are-:
1. RD gone
2. LB been told to go and get a new stiker in Jan.
3. Matt Southall has been to more games, home and away, than RD ever did.
4. Matt has spent time with the 'Upbeats'
5. They apparently have money and want to sign up, LB, JJ, SG and of course Taylor.
That handful of positives is a good start for me, so c'mon lets be positive, its time for us all to move on!!3 -
I’d say “the big question” would be more accurate than the ”big story”. Most of what’s been written about them is assumption, the biggest one being that the money is on the table and it belongs to Nimer. Until the EFL validate that we only have Roland’s assurance that it is there at all. It shouldn’t be news that Roland is an idiot, and Murray, who has also been involved, believes any fairytale that suits him at the time (see 2010). It seems reasonable to be cautious given that Southall and Amis both have history with football takeovers in which proof of funds couldn't ultimately be provided and none, to my knowledge, in situations were they proceeded. There’s a first time for everything, of course.carly burn said:
I understand you need to write this stuff to shift copies but you are in danger here of creating animosity towards the new ownership before they've even got a foot through the door.Airman Brown said:
Conjecture? I don’t think so.carly burn said:
Jesus mate. That's all conjecture. And not a single word on the real money man.lancashire lad said:
read the current VoTVcarly burn said:
Go on then Lancs. What's the particular problem with this lot then, in your humble opinion?lancashire lad said:
no I won'tcarly burn said:
Mother Theresa, Tony Hart and Mary Berry are lining up a bid for Newcastle. Sorry to disappoint.lancashire lad said:https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/dec/09/agent-saif-rubie-banned-for-six-weeks-and-fined-over-improper-use-of-twitter
if this is the same Saif Rubie, as in the Guardian article, is the type of person we want involved with our club. I repeat that I am not at all happy with who is taking over our club.
Get used to it.
Airman just whipping up a bit of caution, mainly because it's not Varney involved ;-)
Think you need to chill out a bit and see where this is really heading before you condemn this lot to the Belgian bin.
I’ve not offered a definitive view on this takeover because I don’t have one, but the link to the 2010 takeover bid which involved the convicted fraudster Paul Anthony Garland and which was described in parliament as involving “a bunch of crooks” is not conjecture.
Neither is Matt Southall’s appearance with Laurence Bassini in April - you can find the pictures of them together in the ground if you look. Bassini was banned for three years for his earlier activities at Watford.
I’ve only published the stories I can substantiate myself but there are others, as the wider media is aware and so, no doubt, are the EFL, but that doesn’t mean the takeover won’t be ratified. And we make the best of whatever happens, is my view. But it isn’t conjecture.
You of all people should know the importance of ridding Duchatelet from this club. You've told us enough times!
Your piece has already received one reaction from a fan that they do not want the new party anywhere near it.
Beggars can't be choosers, and we are begging
As I said earlier, you've fired a few shots at Southall and Itsmyball but not even a blank at Nimer and Heller, and they are the two that are really important. Itsmyball is just a middle man and Southall is more than likely just a face with no financial tie in whatsoever.
Michael Slater would have probably shot his granny and sold her on eBay if she was worth a few quid. God alone knows the pies he had fingers in. But he had a pretty good relationship with the fans all the while Kevin Cash was stumping up financially.. Times were good.
The big story here is Nimer and to some extent Heller. How much are they willing to stump up and how long are they planning on sticking around?
The rest is just noise imo.
It’s quite right that waiting for the perfect takeover is no option at all. The immediate tests are Bowyer’s contract, Taylor’s future and the strength of the squad after January. We know what happens with RD in charge.
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That potential date might be a decent point at which to take stock of things if any takeover happens now.RedChaser said:@sethplum I get your drift but the first set of acounts of the ESI only need to be submitted to company's house within 9moths after its financial year end so unless the law has changed, potentially September 2021 at the latest.
My initial hope was someone so rich that 60-100 million pounds would amount to small change, and they would want to nurture Charlton Athletic as a beautiful thing.
The approach many of us here would have if we won a mega Euromillions prize.
I don't think that is what is happening but maybe I am wrong.0
This discussion has been closed.
