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Roland is still our biggest problem and we now need to restart our actions against him

alburyaddick
alburyaddick Posts: 574
in General Charlton
The reason we are back in this chaotic situation is because Roland has deliberately separated the physical assets from the football club. His ridiculous valuation of The Valley and training ground of £40-50m means that the only potential buyers are chancers who are buying the football club as a punt for £1 but don’t have to provide any serious commitment by buying The Valley. 
Whilst The Valley remains ridiculously overvalued we are stuck in this Catch 22 situation. We need to take the fight back to Roland. He remains our biggest problem. Southall and Nimer are purely a pointless sideshow 
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Comments

  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,382
    alburyaddick said:
    The reason we are back in this chaotic situation is because Roland has deliberately separated the physical assets from the football club. His ridiculous valuation of The Valley and training ground of £40-50m means that the only potential buyers are chancers who are buying the football club as a punt for £1 but don’t have to provide any serious commitment by buying The Valley. 
    Whilst The Valley remains ridiculously overvalued we are stuck in this Catch 22 situation. We need to take the fight back to Roland. He remains our biggest problem. Southall and Nimer are purely a pointless sideshow 
    £50-60M
  • SDAddick
    SDAddick Posts: 14,475
    I disagree. I think all action should now be focused on the EFL. They have let this happen on their watch. Getting mad at Roland won't lower his asking price, as we've seen, and it won't make buyers magically appear, as we've seen.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,047
    And another thing. It's Thatcher's fault. We need to get shot.
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,383
    Huskaris said:
    "posting without reading" as they say. 

    I don't care what anyone else thinks, Roland is a lot less of a twat than those two. 

    To be clear, I want him out of our club, but I'd rather him than a pair of clowns who conduct business on Instagram and Twitter. Absolutely embarrassing and cringey.

    I'm a Charlton fan, and I enjoy the fact that when I say that, old people go "Cheltenham?!?!" At me. I don't want my club to be an episode of Middle EastEnders. 
    ?! Posting without reading?! there were only a few posts before yours. Too busy starting at your lounge wall to read?
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,855
    edited March 2020
    KiwiValley said:
    Huskaris said:
    "posting without reading" as they say. 

    I don't care what anyone else thinks, Roland is a lot less of a twat than those two. 

    To be clear, I want him out of our club, but I'd rather him than a pair of clowns who conduct business on Instagram and Twitter. Absolutely embarrassing and cringey.

    I'm a Charlton fan, and I enjoy the fact that when I say that, old people go "Cheltenham?!?!" At me. I don't want my club to be an episode of Middle EastEnders. 
    ?! Posting without reading?! there were only a few posts before yours. Too busy starting at your lounge wall to read?
    {...}
  • 77redarmy77
    77redarmy77 Posts: 134
    I know for a fact that the protests never stopped, they just aren't public. Sometimes the best protests are the ones you don't see.

    Anyone who thinks Charlton fans just stood down one day and said that's that then our work is done, really don't understand why they do this.

    As long as Roland is on the line they will reel him in.

    Just yesterday I saw on twitter a member of the B20 giving Matt Southall the chance to explain himself prior to further action being taking against him. He never responded to my knowlage. Yet he is meeting another fan who may perhaps provide answers.

    CARD stood up a protest at very short notice before we were all locked down and made it impossible.

    Those who are willing to step up and fight for the club will never stop. Have no fear of that.

    COYR
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,826
    alburyaddick said:
    The reason we are back in this chaotic situation is because Roland has deliberately separated the physical assets from the football club. His ridiculous valuation of The Valley and training ground of £40-50m means that the only potential buyers are chancers who are buying the football club as a punt for £1 but don’t have to provide any serious commitment by buying The Valley. 
    Whilst The Valley remains ridiculously overvalued we are stuck in this Catch 22 situation. We need to take the fight back to Roland. He remains our biggest problem. Southall and Nimer are purely a pointless sideshow 
    What action?
    Theres a lockdown 

  • MartinCAFC
    MartinCAFC Posts: 3,227
    From the sounds of things, ownership of the club going back to Roland would realign the club and the assets.

    I see him as currently the lesser of two evils, maybe the devil we know is better than the devil we don't know.

    That said we have no future under Roland but under his ownership again we wouldn't go under.

    Hopefully there's enough time for Roland to find a new owner before football kicks off again whenever that may be.

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  • alburyaddick
    alburyaddick Posts: 574
    MartinCAFC said:
    From the sounds of things, ownership of the club going back to Roland would realign the club and the assets.

    I see him as currently the lesser of two evils, maybe the devil we know is better than the devil we don't know.

    That said we have no future under Roland but under his ownership again we wouldn't go under.

    Hopefully there's enough time for Roland to find a new owner before football kicks off again whenever that may be.
    Maybe I didn’t articulate this as well as I should but the problem is that regardless of whether it goes back to Roland - it will remain impossible to get an owner unless he changes his position on the price so we are stuck in relentless Groundhog Day.
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,059
    alburyaddick said:
    MartinCAFC said:
    From the sounds of things, ownership of the club going back to Roland would realign the club and the assets.

    I see him as currently the lesser of two evils, maybe the devil we know is better than the devil we don't know.

    That said we have no future under Roland but under his ownership again we wouldn't go under.

    Hopefully there's enough time for Roland to find a new owner before football kicks off again whenever that may be.
    Maybe I didn’t articulate this as well as I should but the problem is that regardless of whether it goes back to Roland - it will remain impossible to get an owner unless he changes his position on the price so we are stuck in relentless Groundhog Day.
    At least in the Roland ownership version of Groundhog Day the club continues to exist. 

    Let’s secure our long term future first, then worry about what comes next. 
  • alburyaddick
    alburyaddick Posts: 574
    se9addick said:
    alburyaddick said:
    MartinCAFC said:
    From the sounds of things, ownership of the club going back to Roland would realign the club and the assets.

    I see him as currently the lesser of two evils, maybe the devil we know is better than the devil we don't know.

    That said we have no future under Roland but under his ownership again we wouldn't go under.

    Hopefully there's enough time for Roland to find a new owner before football kicks off again whenever that may be.
    Maybe I didn’t articulate this as well as I should but the problem is that regardless of whether it goes back to Roland - it will remain impossible to get an owner unless he changes his position on the price so we are stuck in relentless Groundhog Day.
    At least in the Roland ownership version of Groundhog Day the club continues to exist. 

    Let’s secure our long term future first, then worry about what comes next. 
    Why does anyone think that in the Roland ownership version the club continues to exist ? We are in a very similar situation to that which occurred under Glikstein when we had to leave The Valley. Roland owns the property but ( whilst he might have a moral obligation) I would be very surprised if he has any legal obligation to keep the football club going. They are now two separate entities.
    I'm not sure I understand why he is likely to ride to the rescue even though this mess is completely of his making.
    How do you think we can secure the long term future without a new owner also owning The Valley and as I keep saying why would anyone pay the inflated price which is why he hasn't been able to sell it to anyone even though he's been trying for a couple of years. 
    We are stuck in an interminable loop unless he drops his price for the properties.
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,669
    edited March 2020
    The club's assets free of the football side of things has been Roland's aim for a long time. I believe he's engineered the sale to realise that goal and I don't see any reason from his perspective to reverse the process.
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,059
    alburyaddick said:
    se9addick said:
    alburyaddick said:
    MartinCAFC said:
    From the sounds of things, ownership of the club going back to Roland would realign the club and the assets.

    I see him as currently the lesser of two evils, maybe the devil we know is better than the devil we don't know.

    That said we have no future under Roland but under his ownership again we wouldn't go under.

    Hopefully there's enough time for Roland to find a new owner before football kicks off again whenever that may be.
    Maybe I didn’t articulate this as well as I should but the problem is that regardless of whether it goes back to Roland - it will remain impossible to get an owner unless he changes his position on the price so we are stuck in relentless Groundhog Day.
    At least in the Roland ownership version of Groundhog Day the club continues to exist. 

    Let’s secure our long term future first, then worry about what comes next. 
    Why does anyone think that in the Roland ownership version the club continues to exist ? We are in a very similar situation to that which occurred under Glikstein when we had to leave The Valley. Roland owns the property but ( whilst he might have a moral obligation) I would be very surprised if he has any legal obligation to keep the football club going. They are now two separate entities.
    I'm not sure I understand why he is likely to ride to the rescue even though this mess is completely of his making.
    How do you think we can secure the long term future without a new owner also owning The Valley and as I keep saying why would anyone pay the inflated price which is why he hasn't been able to sell it to anyone even though he's been trying for a couple of years. 
    We are stuck in an interminable loop unless he drops his price for the properties.
    I’m pretty sure the club & stadium were two separate legal entities previously, simply under common ownership. If the ex-directors are successful in their court case that will be the case again with ownership of both vesting in Roland. 

    I’m no fan of Roland, but I really think it’s inaccurate to say he’s our biggest problem right now as in fact, in the short term, he is probably our best chance of salvation. 
  • MartinCAFC
    MartinCAFC Posts: 3,227
    alburyaddick said:
    se9addick said:
    alburyaddick said:
    MartinCAFC said:
    From the sounds of things, ownership of the club going back to Roland would realign the club and the assets.

    I see him as currently the lesser of two evils, maybe the devil we know is better than the devil we don't know.

    That said we have no future under Roland but under his ownership again we wouldn't go under.

    Hopefully there's enough time for Roland to find a new owner before football kicks off again whenever that may be.
    Maybe I didn’t articulate this as well as I should but the problem is that regardless of whether it goes back to Roland - it will remain impossible to get an owner unless he changes his position on the price so we are stuck in relentless Groundhog Day.
    At least in the Roland ownership version of Groundhog Day the club continues to exist. 

    Let’s secure our long term future first, then worry about what comes next. 
    Why does anyone think that in the Roland ownership version the club continues to exist ? We are in a very similar situation to that which occurred under Glikstein when we had to leave The Valley. Roland owns the property but ( whilst he might have a moral obligation) I would be very surprised if he has any legal obligation to keep the football club going. They are now two separate entities.
    I'm not sure I understand why he is likely to ride to the rescue even though this mess is completely of his making.
    How do you think we can secure the long term future without a new owner also owning The Valley and as I keep saying why would anyone pay the inflated price which is why he hasn't been able to sell it to anyone even though he's been trying for a couple of years. 
    We are stuck in an interminable loop unless he drops his price for the properties.
    Apologies if I interpret this wrong but if the injunction from the former directors reverses the sale of the club to ESI, don't we effectively go back to how the ownership was under Roland? With the club and ground together? Maybe @airmanbrown might be able to clarify.
  • seriously_red
    seriously_red Posts: 5,741
    se9addick said:
    alburyaddick said:
    se9addick said:
    alburyaddick said:
    MartinCAFC said:
    From the sounds of things, ownership of the club going back to Roland would realign the club and the assets.

    I see him as currently the lesser of two evils, maybe the devil we know is better than the devil we don't know.

    That said we have no future under Roland but under his ownership again we wouldn't go under.

    Hopefully there's enough time for Roland to find a new owner before football kicks off again whenever that may be.
    Maybe I didn’t articulate this as well as I should but the problem is that regardless of whether it goes back to Roland - it will remain impossible to get an owner unless he changes his position on the price so we are stuck in relentless Groundhog Day.
    At least in the Roland ownership version of Groundhog Day the club continues to exist. 

    Let’s secure our long term future first, then worry about what comes next. 
    Why does anyone think that in the Roland ownership version the club continues to exist ? We are in a very similar situation to that which occurred under Glikstein when we had to leave The Valley. Roland owns the property but ( whilst he might have a moral obligation) I would be very surprised if he has any legal obligation to keep the football club going. They are now two separate entities.
    I'm not sure I understand why he is likely to ride to the rescue even though this mess is completely of his making.
    How do you think we can secure the long term future without a new owner also owning The Valley and as I keep saying why would anyone pay the inflated price which is why he hasn't been able to sell it to anyone even though he's been trying for a couple of years. 
    We are stuck in an interminable loop unless he drops his price for the properties.
    I’m pretty sure the club & stadium were two separate legal entities previously, simply under common ownership. If the ex-directors are successful in their court case that will be the case again with ownership of both vesting in Roland. 

    I’m no fan of Roland, but I really think it’s inaccurate to say he’s our biggest problem right now as in fact, in the short term, he is probably our best chance of salvation. 
    For the patient in intensive care, stasis under RD is most certainly preferable to waiting for the cash to run out with non-league status awaiting.

    Our case is a tad more complicated, particularly as the status of guarantees, charges and the overall market is altogether unclear. And we simply cannot second guess what position Staprix (RD) might take.

    Understably many wanted RD gone, even after winning at Wembley... but we appear to have sailed into a perfect storm!
  • WestCountryAddick
    WestCountryAddick Posts: 2,545
    seriously_red said:
    se9addick said:
    alburyaddick said:
    se9addick said:
    alburyaddick said:
    MartinCAFC said:
    From the sounds of things, ownership of the club going back to Roland would realign the club and the assets.

    I see him as currently the lesser of two evils, maybe the devil we know is better than the devil we don't know.

    That said we have no future under Roland but under his ownership again we wouldn't go under.

    Hopefully there's enough time for Roland to find a new owner before football kicks off again whenever that may be.
    Maybe I didn’t articulate this as well as I should but the problem is that regardless of whether it goes back to Roland - it will remain impossible to get an owner unless he changes his position on the price so we are stuck in relentless Groundhog Day.
    At least in the Roland ownership version of Groundhog Day the club continues to exist. 

    Let’s secure our long term future first, then worry about what comes next. 
    Why does anyone think that in the Roland ownership version the club continues to exist ? We are in a very similar situation to that which occurred under Glikstein when we had to leave The Valley. Roland owns the property but ( whilst he might have a moral obligation) I would be very surprised if he has any legal obligation to keep the football club going. They are now two separate entities.
    I'm not sure I understand why he is likely to ride to the rescue even though this mess is completely of his making.
    How do you think we can secure the long term future without a new owner also owning The Valley and as I keep saying why would anyone pay the inflated price which is why he hasn't been able to sell it to anyone even though he's been trying for a couple of years. 
    We are stuck in an interminable loop unless he drops his price for the properties.
    I’m pretty sure the club & stadium were two separate legal entities previously, simply under common ownership. If the ex-directors are successful in their court case that will be the case again with ownership of both vesting in Roland. 

    I’m no fan of Roland, but I really think it’s inaccurate to say he’s our biggest problem right now as in fact, in the short term, he is probably our best chance of salvation. 
    For the patient in intensive care, stasis under RD is most certainly preferable to waiting for the cash to run out with non-league status awaiting.

    Our case is a tad more complicated, particularly as the status of guarantees, charges and the overall market is altogether unclear. And we simply cannot second guess what position Staprix (RD) might take.

    Understably many wanted RD gone, even after winning at Wembley... but we appear to have sailed into a perfect storm!
    All winning at Wembley did was reverse what he did to us in the first place - got us relegated from the division we were in when he bought us.  It didn't reverse all of the crap managers we had to put up with, and the feckless CEO and piss poor players we got sent.  We got relegated because of all that nonsense.  Of course most fans wanted rid, even after the Wembley win, because he was a terrible owner.  As it turns out, there are others that are worse, but don't let that ruin the story  :#
  • paulsturgess
    paulsturgess Posts: 3,835
    Here’s a probably ridiculous and unachievable idea especially as half of us are taking paycuts / redundancies imminently but...

    Wimbledon fans just raised 5mil in a short space of time to get their new ground built (see link below). It seems like Roland has/ was consistently after 10mil over and above what the club (stadium etc) were actually worth which was the barrier for sensible / robust buyers.

    With our significantly greater supporter base etc, is there some sort of angle for a new Valley Investment Plan to try and raise the 10mil difference, which we could then stick on the table to entice a new competent owner (there have been various interested parties by all accounts and presumably would’ve been more if the price was reasonable) to buy us (obviously working on the basis that the ESI shambles is going to drown in the toilet water). 

    Ambitious but with a sensible businessman with a half decent sustainable plan to run us and the half chance of getting back into the Prem where that 10mil would quickly become small fry. Would need detailed thought obviously and I’m thinking along the lines of a Peter Varney-lead consortium here as he’s the kind of brain that might be able to put something like this together in a workable format and sell it to investors in the right way.

    Could try and do some sort of bond arrangement (possibly season tickets involved as well). Varying terms for varying levels of investment etc. For arguments sake, if we could get 5,000 fans sticking in an average of £2k, that’s your £10m. A lot of cash up front for anyone, but essentially the cost of a 5 year season ticket.

    A big ask, but we could be in a very desperate situation very soon the way it’s going at the minute and then it might be down to us to try and come up with some way to keep us alive at all.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/13/afc-wimbledon-fans-raise-over-4m-plough-lane-stadium-
  • bertpalmer
    bertpalmer Posts: 1,774
    SantaClaus said:
    The club's assets free of the football side of things has been Roland's aim for a long time. I believe he's engineered the sale to realise that goal and I don't see any reason from his perspective to reverse the process.
    this all day long

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  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,121
    edited March 2020
    SantaClaus said:
    The club's assets free of the football side of things has been Roland's aim for a long time. I believe he's engineered the sale to realise that goal and I don't see any reason from his perspective to reverse the process.
    Always been my opinion that he has wanted this and goes some way to explaining why it had taken him so long to find a buyer.
  • thickandthin63
    thickandthin63 Posts: 2,962
    Please pardon my ignorance,I stand to be corrected but are not the Valley and Sparrows lane designated leisure areas,whereby no planning permission for residential properties would be likely to be approved.I seem to recall this was Sunleys intention but they could not do it.If I am right(if) why would anyone want the possession of these two sites if nothing could be done with them other than use tyhem for their present purpose.
  • grumpyaddick
    grumpyaddick Posts: 6,597
    I agree with you that the Nimer v Southall bun fight on social media is an embarassing distraction. The one quid circus no-one wants to go to but I disagree about Roland.

    Maybe he just wants to sit on his assets and let the club burn but he has been conned too and has no short or medium term prospect of getting his money back.

    I fear our only hope in this mess is that he steps back in to take control while he looks for a more credible owner. 

    The alternative I guess, is Administration but for a business with no assets and little or no cash this might be practically impossible because there is currently no option to continue trading with no fixtures and no club shop etc. I guess someone else could buy it for 50p from the Administrator and do a lease deal with Roland but that leaves the assets and club split. 

    I am no expert and defer to @Grapevine49 and @Scratchingvalleycat but I fear the options are:
     
    1. Roland
    2. Administration and/or liquidation of the club and then Roland as the landlord.
    3. No Roland and no club. 

    Maybe time to be nice to Roland, tough though that might be.



  • RodneysMiddleName
    RodneysMiddleName Posts: 219
    Roland definitely isn't the solution to the current mess, but in my opinion he's now a better option than the Chuckle Brothers . Who would have thought he'd be able to find people even worse at running a football club than himself? Another failure to add to his extensive portfolio.

    As others have said, Administration may not be what he would want because he has had offers that add up to more than he'd get if just hung on to the land.

    If he's half the businessman he thinks he is, he needs to get involved. Since he has the promise of £50M being paid at some point I'd have thought he can instruct a (proper) lawyer to ask ESI what the prospects are for him receiving it. If the answer, as we now suspect, is no prospect whatsoever, he can start thinking about the best way to protect the club, and therefore his remaining investment in it.

    One bit of advice though, the club is seriously damaged and this is down to you, Roland. You need to take it on the chin and accept that you are not going to get that much money from anyone legitimate. Maybe start the bidding at £25M and take it from there? 
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,669
    edited March 2020
    RodneysMiddleName said:
    Roland definitely isn't the solution to the current mess, but in my opinion he's now a better option than the Chuckle Brothers . Who would have thought he'd be able to find people even worse at running a football club than himself? Another failure to add to his extensive portfolio.

    As others have said, Administration may not be what he would want because he has had offers that add up to more than he'd get if just hung on to the land.

    If he's half the businessman he thinks he is, he needs to get involved. Since he has the promise of £50M being paid at some point I'd have thought he can instruct a (proper) lawyer to ask ESI what the prospects are for him receiving it. If the answer, as we now suspect, is no prospect whatsoever, he can start thinking about the best way to protect the club, and therefore his remaining investment in it.

    One bit of advice though, the club is seriously damaged and this is down to you, Roland. You need to take it on the chin and accept that you are not going to get that much money from anyone legitimate. Maybe start the bidding at £25M and take it from there? 
    If the land is worth say £40-50m without a soon to be insolvent football club attached why would Roland take £25m? Even the ex director loans might not be much of an impediment as it would make more sense to pay off the directors and let the club go to the wall rather than take a £15-25m hit by selling the club as a going concern (land and all).
  • Harry Gregory
    Harry Gregory Posts: 869
    I think the one thing in our favour is that time is against Roland.  To obtain any revenue from developing both bits of land could take far longer than he has left on this world. He would be better off finding a credible buyer who would buy the entire club and accept that he will not get the money back that he wasted on piles of crap.
  • JohnfromNorfolk
    JohnfromNorfolk Posts: 1,324
    SantaClaus said:
    RodneysMiddleName said:
    Roland definitely isn't the solution to the current mess, but in my opinion he's now a better option than the Chuckle Brothers . Who would have thought he'd be able to find people even worse at running a football club than himself? Another failure to add to his extensive portfolio.

    As others have said, Administration may not be what he would want because he has had offers that add up to more than he'd get if just hung on to the land.

    If he's half the businessman he thinks he is, he needs to get involved. Since he has the promise of £50M being paid at some point I'd have thought he can instruct a (proper) lawyer to ask ESI what the prospects are for him receiving it. If the answer, as we now suspect, is no prospect whatsoever, he can start thinking about the best way to protect the club, and therefore his remaining investment in it.

    One bit of advice though, the club is seriously damaged and this is down to you, Roland. You need to take it on the chin and accept that you are not going to get that much money from anyone legitimate. Maybe start the bidding at £25M and take it from there? 
    If the land is worth say £40-50m without a soon to be insolvent football club attached why would Roland take £25m? Even the ex director loans might not be much of an impediment as it would make more sense to pay off the directors and let the club go to the wall rather than take a £15-25m hit by selling the club as a going concern (land and all).
    Exactly as I see it.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,472
    Given the current coronavirus crisis the club's assets will be losing value - no way will RD get his money back.
  • RodneysMiddleName
    RodneysMiddleName Posts: 219
    I'm not sure what the land is actually worth? It's probably been stated before and I've forgotten in amongst everything else going on. I'd have thought the value of  the land and a viable club would be more than just the land though. Or is it the case that if the club is dissolved the land can be used for any purpose going forward?
  • bertpalmer
    bertpalmer Posts: 1,774
    SantaClaus said:
    RodneysMiddleName said:
    Roland definitely isn't the solution to the current mess, but in my opinion he's now a better option than the Chuckle Brothers . Who would have thought he'd be able to find people even worse at running a football club than himself? Another failure to add to his extensive portfolio.

    As others have said, Administration may not be what he would want because he has had offers that add up to more than he'd get if just hung on to the land.

    If he's half the businessman he thinks he is, he needs to get involved. Since he has the promise of £50M being paid at some point I'd have thought he can instruct a (proper) lawyer to ask ESI what the prospects are for him receiving it. If the answer, as we now suspect, is no prospect whatsoever, he can start thinking about the best way to protect the club, and therefore his remaining investment in it.

    One bit of advice though, the club is seriously damaged and this is down to you, Roland. You need to take it on the chin and accept that you are not going to get that much money from anyone legitimate. Maybe start the bidding at £25M and take it from there? 
    If the land is worth say £40-50m without a soon to be insolvent football club attached why would Roland take £25m? Even the ex director loans might not be much of an impediment as it would make more sense to pay off the directors and let the club go to the wall rather than take a £15-25m hit by selling the club as a going concern (land and all).
    If the club went to the wall the directors loans would go with them because they are only payable if we get back tot he premiership,wouldn't they???

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