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Jonny Williams
Comments
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Did he have a good game at Brum? One great moment for the goal, but is that enough?Dave Rudd said:
Let's accept that Williams had a good game at Birmingham.stoneroses19 said:
Nope, it wasn’t a full assist, so apparently we can’t accept Williams had a good game.Webbja77 said:Agree he def needs to add goals to his game but can’t deny he makes things happen..the role he played in the goal on Wednesday should not be underestimated... picking the ball up and actually running at them instead of side ways passing plus the pass was spot on!Since 17/18 season
Williams 1 goal
McGeady 22 goals
We already knew Williams didn’t get brought in for goals, maybe we should be looking at McGeady more and why he hasn’t managed to score yet (although I feel he’s close as is at least shooting in the last few games).
The bbc stats tell me that we had seven attempts at goal compared to Birmingham's 23. Good job Williams didn't have a 'mare then.
I agree about McGeady looking more likely at the moment. If it has to be one or the other, I'd go for McGeady, although both will let you down in the 'failed to track back' department.
Is there a stat for that?
The statbank shows he got 6.59 and was our 9th best player2 -
Yet the winning of free kicks or even corners (which Williams does well to win) is our saviour as we can't score enough goals from open play. So the work Williams does for us is essential.Dave Rudd said:
Riiiight.alicwkd said:
They are a very real thing and are the reason why players like Carrick/ Xavi/ Modric etc are so highly rated. They are often the ones to play a creative pass into an attacking player who then sets up someone to score. If you only looked at said players goal/ assist stats you would come to the conclusion that they were useless.Dave Rudd said:
Pre-assist? Bloody Hell ... how far back do we go now?alicwkd said:His lack of goals is a worry but he provides a type of creativity, maybe flair is the right word, that we dont really get from anyone else. The ability to actually produce something different or unexpected. We have several tidy passers but you still need that sudden burst of skill or speed to open teams up.
His dribbling ability and flair draws players to him which creates space for others. He also gets us up the pitch by beating people and winning fouls which is crucial. Every team needs ball carriers and he and Doughty are our only ones really.
His pre-assist for the goal last night was also brilliant. Williams has to start when available IMO.
We'll be giving credit to whoever inflated the ball next.
Problem is that the pre-assist (and even the assist) goes unnoticed unless a goal is scored. A player could spend the entire game setting up the hapless strikers and his (or her) stats would look woeful. Same for the pre-assist. Unless the recipient of the pre-assist goes on to create an assist, then that piece of magic goes unnoticed.
As you can tell, I'm not a great lover of this type of performance dissection and, as you rightly say @alicwkd it's wrong to judge a player by stats alone. I'm also not sure that winning a free kick should count as an assist. There's usually still quite a lot of work to be done even at that stage.
But, if you want stats, I discover that Williams has a 'shots per game' ratio of 0.3. Only Field, Matthews, Oshilaja and Solly are lower (source: whoscored.com).
Yes, he is a pest and tricky to play against. But you can let him run around for the statutory 60-70 minutes max knowing that he won't really hurt you.2 -
stoneroses19 said:
Yet the winning of free kicks or even corners (which Williams does well to win) is our saviour as we can't score enough goals from open play. So the work Williams does for us is essential in wasting time to earn those 0-0 scorelines.Dave Rudd said:
Riiiight.alicwkd said:
They are a very real thing and are the reason why players like Carrick/ Xavi/ Modric etc are so highly rated. They are often the ones to play a creative pass into an attacking player who then sets up someone to score. If you only looked at said players goal/ assist stats you would come to the conclusion that they were useless.Dave Rudd said:
Pre-assist? Bloody Hell ... how far back do we go now?alicwkd said:His lack of goals is a worry but he provides a type of creativity, maybe flair is the right word, that we dont really get from anyone else. The ability to actually produce something different or unexpected. We have several tidy passers but you still need that sudden burst of skill or speed to open teams up.
His dribbling ability and flair draws players to him which creates space for others. He also gets us up the pitch by beating people and winning fouls which is crucial. Every team needs ball carriers and he and Doughty are our only ones really.
His pre-assist for the goal last night was also brilliant. Williams has to start when available IMO.
We'll be giving credit to whoever inflated the ball next.
Problem is that the pre-assist (and even the assist) goes unnoticed unless a goal is scored. A player could spend the entire game setting up the hapless strikers and his (or her) stats would look woeful. Same for the pre-assist. Unless the recipient of the pre-assist goes on to create an assist, then that piece of magic goes unnoticed.
As you can tell, I'm not a great lover of this type of performance dissection and, as you rightly say @alicwkd it's wrong to judge a player by stats alone. I'm also not sure that winning a free kick should count as an assist. There's usually still quite a lot of work to be done even at that stage.
But, if you want stats, I discover that Williams has a 'shots per game' ratio of 0.3. Only Field, Matthews, Oshilaja and Solly are lower (source: whoscored.com).
Yes, he is a pest and tricky to play against. But you can let him run around for the statutory 60-70 minutes max knowing that he won't really hurt you.
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6.96 according to the (probably more objective) whoscored.com. I make that 'good', 'acceptable', 'OK' ... whatever you prefer ... and apparently it was his best performance of the season for us.killerandflash said:
Did he have a good game at Brum? One great moment for the goal, but is that enough?Dave Rudd said:
Let's accept that Williams had a good game at Birmingham.stoneroses19 said:
Nope, it wasn’t a full assist, so apparently we can’t accept Williams had a good game.Webbja77 said:Agree he def needs to add goals to his game but can’t deny he makes things happen..the role he played in the goal on Wednesday should not be underestimated... picking the ball up and actually running at them instead of side ways passing plus the pass was spot on!Since 17/18 season
Williams 1 goal
McGeady 22 goals
We already knew Williams didn’t get brought in for goals, maybe we should be looking at McGeady more and why he hasn’t managed to score yet (although I feel he’s close as is at least shooting in the last few games).
The bbc stats tell me that we had seven attempts at goal compared to Birmingham's 23. Good job Williams didn't have a 'mare then.
I agree about McGeady looking more likely at the moment. If it has to be one or the other, I'd go for McGeady, although both will let you down in the 'failed to track back' department.
Is there a stat for that?
The statbank shows he got 6.59 and was our 9th best player
But that's hardly the point ... it was merely the premise for the fact that, even with Williams producing an 'acceptable' performance, there was still little end product.
I think I'll leave it there. I have truffles and quail's eggs to put in the bin.
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6.96 is just a whisker under 7, a good decent mark.Dave Rudd said:
6.96 according to the (probably more objective) whoscored.com. I make that 'good', 'acceptable', 'OK' ... whatever you prefer ... and apparently it was his best performance of the season for us.killerandflash said:
Did he have a good game at Brum? One great moment for the goal, but is that enough?Dave Rudd said:
Let's accept that Williams had a good game at Birmingham.stoneroses19 said:
Nope, it wasn’t a full assist, so apparently we can’t accept Williams had a good game.Webbja77 said:Agree he def needs to add goals to his game but can’t deny he makes things happen..the role he played in the goal on Wednesday should not be underestimated... picking the ball up and actually running at them instead of side ways passing plus the pass was spot on!Since 17/18 season
Williams 1 goal
McGeady 22 goals
We already knew Williams didn’t get brought in for goals, maybe we should be looking at McGeady more and why he hasn’t managed to score yet (although I feel he’s close as is at least shooting in the last few games).
The bbc stats tell me that we had seven attempts at goal compared to Birmingham's 23. Good job Williams didn't have a 'mare then.
I agree about McGeady looking more likely at the moment. If it has to be one or the other, I'd go for McGeady, although both will let you down in the 'failed to track back' department.
Is there a stat for that?
The statbank shows he got 6.59 and was our 9th best player
But these are very subjective scorings - and depend on how impressed, jaundiced or even predjudiced are those who give marks. We've seen from marks and comments made on our own 'players marks' thread, how clueless and emotional some markers can be.
The bottom line, is what does a manager think of his player's performance?
That'll tell you whether the player has followed instructions, done his job properly on and off the ball, any specific moments of magic or error, and application and attitude.
I'll take the manager's opinion over any 'player marks' or dry statistics.
He's the experienced professional.
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Most naturally gifted footballer in our squad. Quality player. Don't care if he doesn't score, almost everything decent we do going forward goes through him.3
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Bobby Hunt and Gordon Riddick were two other strikers from that era who flattered to deceive.Oggy Red said:
Barry Endean, slow and ponderous. Couldn't anticipate or even read the game.drewman said:I dont remember barry endean. Chris Dickson was poor which was a shame, I really wanted it to work out for him.
He'd played for a pub side and got spotted. Signed by Watford in the Third Division where he had a prolific season, including famously scoring the winner against Man U in an FA Cup tie. Or something like that.
Signed for us ..... immediately Charltonised. Never looked like scoring.1 -
I can't work out why, but for such a good player, Williams should be producing so much more.
If one of the coaches could work out a way to make him more productive, he'd be one hell of a good player.0 -
They were both tryers though and willing to put in a shift, especially 'Digger' Hunt. He'd been around the block and was about 30 when he signed (from Ipswich was it, can't quite remember? ...... but his best days were behind him.queensland_addick said:
Bobby Hunt and Gordon Riddick were two other strikers from that era who flattered to deceive.Oggy Red said:
Barry Endean, slow and ponderous. Couldn't anticipate or even read the game.drewman said:I dont remember barry endean. Chris Dickson was poor which was a shame, I really wanted it to work out for him.
He'd played for a pub side and got spotted. Signed by Watford in the Third Division where he had a prolific season, including famously scoring the winner against Man U in an FA Cup tie. Or something like that.
Signed for us ..... immediately Charltonised. Never looked like scoring.
We signed Gordon Riddick from Gillingham, I think (Matt Tees replacement?) ..... and he was decent enough in the air for a lanky centre forward but having played before only in the lower divisions, in all honesty the Second Division was probably a step too far.
Then a couple of years later, there was Dickie Plumb ...... another whole-hearted striker, playing above his level though.
But Barry Endean .... he trundled round the pitch at half pace, often seeming to be a step behind play.
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Ahh, the good old days! Jumpers for goalposts.Oggy Red said:
They were both tryers though and willing to put in a shift, especially 'Digger' Hunt. He'd been around the block and was about 30 when he signed (from Ipswich was it, can't quite remember? ...... but his best days were behind him.queensland_addick said:
Bobby Hunt and Gordon Riddick were two other strikers from that era who flattered to deceive.Oggy Red said:
Barry Endean, slow and ponderous. Couldn't anticipate or even read the game.drewman said:I dont remember barry endean. Chris Dickson was poor which was a shame, I really wanted it to work out for him.
He'd played for a pub side and got spotted. Signed by Watford in the Third Division where he had a prolific season, including famously scoring the winner against Man U in an FA Cup tie. Or something like that.
Signed for us ..... immediately Charltonised. Never looked like scoring.
We signed Gordon Riddick from Gillingham, I think (Matt Tees replacement?) ..... and he was decent enough in the air for a lanky centre forward but having played before only in the lower divisions, in all honesty the Second Division was probably a step too far.
Then a couple of years later, there was Dickie Plumb ...... another whole-hearted striker, playing above his level though.
But Barry Endean .... he trundled round the pitch at half pace, often seeming to be a step behind play.
"Digger Hunt" haven't heard that one before.
I bumped into him, one close season while he was still with us, he was weighing strawberries, on a pick your own strawberry farm in Tiptree, to earn a few extra quid.
You could just imagine Lyle Taylor doing something like that these days!1 -
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Williams will come good in the last two games . I love watching this guy, such a shame is so prone to injury .
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I believe it was at Ipswich he was nicknamed Digger, something to do with playing in Australia one summer, during the close season. Perhaps someone else can remember?queensland_addick said:
Ahh, the good old days! Jumpers for goalposts.Oggy Red said:
They were both tryers though and willing to put in a shift, especially 'Digger' Hunt. He'd been around the block and was about 30 when he signed (from Ipswich was it, can't quite remember? ...... but his best days were behind him.queensland_addick said:
Bobby Hunt and Gordon Riddick were two other strikers from that era who flattered to deceive.Oggy Red said:
Barry Endean, slow and ponderous. Couldn't anticipate or even read the game.drewman said:I dont remember barry endean. Chris Dickson was poor which was a shame, I really wanted it to work out for him.
He'd played for a pub side and got spotted. Signed by Watford in the Third Division where he had a prolific season, including famously scoring the winner against Man U in an FA Cup tie. Or something like that.
Signed for us ..... immediately Charltonised. Never looked like scoring.
We signed Gordon Riddick from Gillingham, I think (Matt Tees replacement?) ..... and he was decent enough in the air for a lanky centre forward but having played before only in the lower divisions, in all honesty the Second Division was probably a step too far.
Then a couple of years later, there was Dickie Plumb ...... another whole-hearted striker, playing above his level though.
But Barry Endean .... he trundled round the pitch at half pace, often seeming to be a step behind play.
"Digger Hunt" haven't heard that one before.
I bumped into him, one close season while he was still with us, he was weighing strawberries, on a pick your own strawberry farm in Tiptree, to earn a few extra quid.
You could just imagine Lyle Taylor doing something like that these days!
Anyway, talking of him, I wondered where he'd gone from Charlton, and came across this link:
https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2016-10-26/retired-footballer-speaks-of-alzheimers-battle/
It appears our old player is yet another footballer who suffers possible football inflicted dementia.
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I wish he went down in the penalty area as often as he does in the rest of the pitch we’d of had another 10 penalties!0
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Could really do with him stepping up tomorrow.0
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This is not a popular opinion but i feel he is overrated. No goal threat and spends a lot of the game on the floor.3
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Shame we don’t have a Yann or Ricky Holmes to take advantage of all the free kicks he wins. We’ve yet to see McGeady shoot from a free kick.0
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No one who can tie their shoelaces up is overrated in this teamdickplumb said:This is not a popular opinion but i feel he is overrated. No goal threat and spends a lot of the game on the floor.1 -
I think Williams is one of the best midfielders in the Championship. There are two downsides. One is that he doesn't score and Two is that he doesn't last but we are better when he is in the side.1
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Bowyer said the other night we need to manage games better, teams at this level see games out because they keep the ball, win free kicksdickplumb said:This is not a popular opinion but i feel he is overrated. No goal threat and spends a lot of the game on the floor.
Thats what Williams brings to the team better than anyone else in the squad - Just a shame he got cramp on Wednesday night so had to come off1 -
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What I have noticed with our defence is that they can be very good and difficult to score against, but on certain occasions they look like there is lead in their boots. An example was Birmingham. They started the game looking ponderous and indecisive then grew into the game. One of my main criticisms is they are on the edge of competence on the ball and add a bit of anxiety to that and they get in each others way and concede possession two easily. The defence performs better when the pressure on us is not sustained. They seem to need to reset.
Why this is relevant to Williams IMO is that Williams helps the defence. Simply because he draws fouls and said fouls allow us to reset. You take him off the pitch and you can't reset and the negative traits of the team defensively become more of an issue.
This issue manifests itself in the second ball. If you comapre us in a game to our opponents, we will invariably be second to the loose ball. An aimless punt or kick from opponents is more likely to go to an opponent, whilst an aimless punt of kick from us is more likely to go to an opponent too. Whilst Williams doesn't solve this problem he helps by buzzing around and nipping in.
That is what I have noticed anyway and he would be the first name on the teamsheet if I was the manager.1 -
If Williams can only last for an hour then why not start him after about 30 minutes.
That way he can play till the end of the match and help out with our game management at the end.
Every time we take him off we put ourselves under non stop pressure.
I'd rather have him on the pitch for the last instead of the first.1 -
Yet too many fans have hizzy fits if he's not starting yet cant see the bigger picture like that oneblackpool72 said:If Williams can only last for an hour then why not start him after about 30 minutes.
That way he can play till the end of the match and help out with our game management at the end.
Every time we take him off we put ourselves under non stop pressure.
I'd rather have him on the pitch for the last instead of the first.0 -
I feel sorry for whoever's coming off after 30 mins...blackpool72 said:If Williams can only last for an hour then why not start him after about 30 minutes.
That way he can play till the end of the match and help out with our game management at the end.
Every time we take him off we put ourselves under non stop pressure.
I'd rather have him on the pitch for the last instead of the first.0 -
With 5 subs, I think you have to start key players you don't know how much you are going to get out of as it allows you to get more out of them. Basically, swap when they drop. Oztumer is not as good, but is a natural replacement for Williams so he ought to be the sub when it is made.0
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Abs it’s that decisiveness abs cutting edge hat nets him so many goals.
Enjoyed the interview though.1 -
I can see why it may have taken Lee a couple of years to get though to Johnny, bless him.7
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Is this his first bloody Christmas?4
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2-1CWfTODE
