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Redundency/HR help if at all possible
eaststandmike
Posts: 14,956
A close friend of the famly has been on furlough leave since the 1st April due to Covid-19. He was told last Monday in a Teams meeting that he was being considerd for redundency and after speaking to him today he told me he has had his second consultation and they have confirmed the redundency and given him 12 weeks notice.
It seems the company is taking full advantage of the furlough scheme as they are telling him he has to work his 12 weeks notice, however they then went on to say that he will remain on furlough and they will top his wages up in line with his statutory rights and contract.
He has 19 days holiday left and was hoping they would pay him for these however they told him he needs to take the full 19 days during his notice/furlough period meaning in effect he will not receive any extra money for these days so for 19 working days he is going to be on furlough/notice & holiday all at the same time?
He also opted out of his company car scheme and gets an extra £500 per month in his wages to provide his own vehicle and then he charges for business miles. The company stopped the £500 in April saying he could not receive it whilst on furlough however he challenged this today and asked if he will receive it for his 12 weeks notince period as it is in his contract as statutory and they said "they would look into it".
He has been on the phone most of the day trying to get through to Citizens Advice and other advice lines but without any luck.
I said I would post this on here for him as I know we have a few HR guru's that may be able to advise.
Many thanks
It seems the company is taking full advantage of the furlough scheme as they are telling him he has to work his 12 weeks notice, however they then went on to say that he will remain on furlough and they will top his wages up in line with his statutory rights and contract.
He has 19 days holiday left and was hoping they would pay him for these however they told him he needs to take the full 19 days during his notice/furlough period meaning in effect he will not receive any extra money for these days so for 19 working days he is going to be on furlough/notice & holiday all at the same time?
He also opted out of his company car scheme and gets an extra £500 per month in his wages to provide his own vehicle and then he charges for business miles. The company stopped the £500 in April saying he could not receive it whilst on furlough however he challenged this today and asked if he will receive it for his 12 weeks notince period as it is in his contract as statutory and they said "they would look into it".
He has been on the phone most of the day trying to get through to Citizens Advice and other advice lines but without any luck.
I said I would post this on here for him as I know we have a few HR guru's that may be able to advise.
Many thanks
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Comments
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I made a comment to a friend about these type of situations can genuinely see adverts within 6 months, no win no fee has your employment been affected by covid.
Employers have hid behind the furlough scheme and abused it.
However with the holiday entitlement I believe they have to give you double the notice of days they require you to take as leave.
It's a shit situation to be in.5 -
Thanks Eric, and yes I agree with all your comments.EricBanterna said:I made a comment to a friend about these type of situations can genuinely see adverts within 6 months, no win no fee has your employment been affected by covid.
Employers have hid behind the furlough scheme and abused it.
However with the holiday entitlement I believe they have to give you double the notice of days they require you to take as leave.
It's a shit situation to be in.0 -
Definitely sounds like a job for his union, or failing that, ACAS.
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If you’re on furlough you shouldn’t be working for your employer.5
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As mentioned above please go to ACAS they are very good. I've worked for the CAB and this is where we would go to when the clients situation is this difficult. Good luck but it's happening a lot sadly.
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Did you mean @eaststandmike that he won’t actually be working his 12 weeks? Because as pointed out he can’t work on furlough (of course there is now the option to spend a percentage of time on furlough)
if the above, I’m assuming the main query is regarding taking the holiday?0 -
Correct, they have told him he is entitled to 12 weeks notice, they want him to work his notice meaning they are not going to let him go early however they will keep him on the furlough scheme for the 12 weeks topping his pay up. So the way I see it is the government/tax payer will be funding half his 12 weeks wages and the firm will top up the other half.fmaddick said:Did you mean @eaststandmike that he won’t actually be working his 12 weeks? Because as pointed out he can’t work on furlough (of course there is now the option to spend a percentage of time on furlough)
if the above, I’m assuming the main query is regarding taking the holiday?0 -
Agreed if you're furloughed you're not allowed to work for your employer.
Although you can take work from elsewhere I believe.1 -
My understanding on this - we haven't used the furlough scheme.Firstly, yes you can be made redundant whilst on furlough and the employer is able to reclaim 80% of the pay (reducing soon).Let's look at notice.
The statutory redundancy notice periods are:
- at least one week’s notice if employed between one month and 2 years
- one week’s notice for each year if employed between 2 and 12 years
- 12 weeks’ notice if employed for 12 years or more
Is your friend getting 12 weeks notice because he has 12 or more years service? If so then the employer has an obligation to top up his pay to 100%. If he is getting 12 weeks notice as contractual notice and this is at least a week more than statutory notice i.e. he has less than 12 years service but his contract says 12 weeks, then there is no obligation for the employer to top up the furlough amount. If that is the case then the fact they are topping it up is above and beyond.In terms of accrued holiday - yes the employer can make your friend take the holiday - as Eric says, double the notice for the length of holiday. The employer MUST pay full contractual pay for any holiday taken but again can claim back the furlough amount from the government. It seems they are paying 100% throughout the notice period so that is covered.Finally - statutory redundancy pay (as a minimum) is also due. This can be calculated here: https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-payAn awful situation to be in, but it would appear the employer is not acting unlawfully. The reality might be that they simply couldn't wait until the end of furlough and then pay 12 weeks notice and redundancy pay due to financial constraints they find themselves in.
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Definitely taking full advantage of the scheme, and that's the concern. It was designed to keep people in jobs but it's not going to work for everyone. Unfortunately, can't see they've done anything wrong at all. I think we'll see quite a few companies doing this now as the scheme is reducing from 80% to 70% and then 60%.0
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Thank you all, I will print this off and show it to him tomorrow.
Much appreciated.
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Covered End said:Agreed if you're furloughed you're not allowed to work for
My understanding is that if you have been furloughed, you can’t go and get another job as you’re still contracted to ‘work’ for the company which has furloughed you (even though the stipulation is you don’t work). Happy to be proved wrong of course.0 -
JaShea99 said:
My understanding is that if you have been furloughed, you can’t go and get another job as you’re still contracted to ‘work’ for the company which has furloughed you (even though the stipulation is you don’t work). Happy to be proved wrong of course.
This is something that came up where I work (although I've not been furloughed) and while organisation initially said you couldn't do any paid work if you went on furlough, latest is it's not as simple as that.You can't do any work for the employer that has furloughed you (although occasional 'keep in touch' type video conference sessions are OK) but you are still legally employed by them so your contract is still valid.Whether you can take on any other paid work depends on your employment contract - and they vary from 'no outside work at all' to 'only with permission' or 'no conflict of interest' to not saying anything.There are people who have two (or more) part time jobs and have been furloughed from one but continue to work in the other, and that's OKOne other angle that may just be relevant in this case - depends what notice @eaststandmike 's friend is required to give if s/he wants to resign. you can (subject to normal notice period or negotiation) resign while a redundancy is going on, but there is a chance this will louse up redundancy pay.A few years back, I worked somewhere that got shut down, and there was a point X weeks before it closed where people could leave and keep their redundancy pay, but I can't remember how many X was, and I'm not sure if that is something covered by law, or something that got negotiated in that place.(all above subject the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer or HR person, and it's a while since i was a union rep)0 -
If you want to get another job while you're furloughed
You can work somewhere else if your contract with your current employer lets you. Getting a new job won’t affect your furlough pay.
If you get a new job, you should make sure:
- you can go back to work for the employer who furloughed you when they decide to bring you back
- your new employer gives you the starter checklist form - you’ll need to complete Statement C
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