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Sheff Weds Decision 12 points Next season
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Not surprised. When did Charlton ever get a ruling go in their favour? We can't even get a red card overturned.
So Championship clubs (who weren't cheated against) get handed a huge advantage next season. Whilst the clubs that were cheated against this season, get punished. What a screwed up world we live in!3 -
@Coyotejohn1947
But it was flesh and blood people who made the decision to cheat not the nuts and bolts of the stadium, the club name itself or however else you define the club. How can they not be accountable for their actions but the club is?--------------------------------------------------------------------------
MARCH 21st 2020
In a statement released by the club late on Friday night, Wednesday confirmed charges against the club will now proceed to a hearing, although individual misconduct charges brought against owner Dejphon Chansiri, finance director John Redgate and former CEO Katrien Meire have been dropped. The EFL declined to comment (on the dropped charges) due to ongoing proceedings.
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OK EFL. you refused to comment on March 21st as to why the individual charges were dropped in favour of charging the 'Club' only because of 'ongoing proceedings'.
Well, you have now seen the proceedings concluded (at least in your eyes) so will we now hear the reasons why the charges against Chansiri, Meire and Redgate were dropped?
So in addition to the decision to challenge the timing of the punishment for the transgression there needs to be a challenge (or at least we require an explanation) relating to the reasons why those responsible were allowed to walk away from the process.
In the case of Chansiri - he is still owner of the club so he has profited twice.
Once by the decision not to proceed against him personally on this matter (although by definition he is the most heavily implicated) and secondly by the club not being punished this season.
There have to be minutes and records of the Independent Disciplinary Board's decision making process in this respect This has to be transparent.
I am coming to the strong opinion, yes, that there could and should be a successful legal challenge to the entire process.
The sub-plot could be that the EFL in knowing this delayed for as long as possible in the knowledge that any legal challenge cannot now hope to succeed in reaching a conclusion before next season's fixtures are announced and underway
Quite frankly I don't care about that as long as fair-play is seen to be done and has been conducted fairly. If this needs to go to the Court of Arbitration for Sport so be it - the whole affair is one that is making me sick as I write this to the extent that I want to turn my back on football altogether but I don't want to turn my back on the Club that I have loved all my life.6 -
Got a feeling the local stationers will have to order some more brown envelopes1
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I feel the rest of the championship (other than those relegated now) will support the 'punishment' taking place next season as it gives the 'lesser' clubs a boost to avoid relegation and the 'bigger' clubs will benefit as Wednesday will be out of the top 6 even if they have an amazing season.5
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I have this morning contacted the EFL, via the on-line contact form and sent the following e-mail. Please read if interested-:Good morning, yet again.Not only have you, as an organisation, been complicit in allowing the current situation at Charlton Athletic to drag on for nearly 8 months without ANY resolution as to the ownership of the club by East Street Investments, which in itself is a corporate failing, you have now shown no backbone or courage to properly sanction Sheffield Wednesday F.C for being found guilty of cheating. You have, once again, dodged the simple decision to relegate a team, who by cheating, were able to afford players, way beyond the means of other Championship Clubs, which gave them an unfair advantage against many of the other clubs.Your duty is NOT to reward cheats, but in this case you have. Instead of acting decisively and strongly, you have taken the cowardly decision to delay the points deduction to next season, hence NOT punishing Sheffield Wednesday for the cheating they undertook THIS season. It has taken 8 months and 17 days to come to this decision, and in your heart of hearts you know the decision is wrong. The points deduction should have taken place now, and Sheffield Wednesday should be playing in League 1 season 20/21.You were very quick to relegate Wigan Athletic via a points deduction imposed THIS season, you gave points deductions to BCFC last season, in the season, yet on this occasion you defer.The EFL have lost any sense of purpose and in many peoples eyes are verging on being corrupt. The situation you have made for yourselves currently can be overturned, by simply making the CORRECT decision. Sadly, I and many 1000's of other football fans across the country, do not expect you to grow a spine and reverse your decision and relegate Sheffield Wednesday now, and we hold you in complete contempt. The quicker a government led investigation into your running of the EFL is started the better, and the quicker you, as spinless cowards, will be looking for new positions, or better still be part of the unemployment figures.Your actions have been disgraceful.Yours28
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The fact that it has now been announced will make it very difficult for a legal challenge to be successful. If by some miracle they did an about turn and apply points deduction this season instead, Wednesday would appeal that also.0
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MuttleyCAFC said:Rick Parry should resign as of today at the very least.
He will resign next season.16 -
Correct, which if you are into conspiracies is exactly why the decision making was delayed and why, when it was announced, it was late on a Friday the day before the Cup Final, the optimum timing and opportunity to avoid as long as possible the inevitable reaction and to let it dissipate and disappear with the Sunday andMonday papers concentrating on Arsenal or Chelsea. The PR people at the EFL must have been chortling away in the wine bar last night at a job well done.2
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Yes, we know the decision was ultimately delayed to prevent it being successfully appealed by Wednesday or another club and alter the outcome of the season at an untimely stage. Just before the new season kicks off for a start. Had Barnsley not scored that added time goal, we MAY have seen a different outcome.0
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Did we expect anything less from the clowns at the EFL?2
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I agree. IF say Barnsley and CAFC take legal action that will take weeks and if successful Chef Wendy will appeal and that will take a further number of weeks. In the meantime the season will have to be suspended until the final outcome is known, be lucky if the Championship starts this side of Xmas.queensland_addick said:The fact that it has now been announced will make it very difficult for a legal challenge to be successful. If by some miracle they did an about turn and apply points deduction this season instead, Wednesday would appeal that also.0 -
It is doesnt rain it pours.
Just how mant times can you lot get stitched up?!
It absolutely stinks.16 -
It would be interesting if we tried to get an injunction stopping the start of the season until the matter is resolved.
The threat should at least concentrate the minds.3 -
@Redmidland - I think the actual offence was in 2017/18. But that's just semantics, your point remains valid.0
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Hi @Algarveaddick, yes I believe you're correct, but that gave them the funds to buy players out of many other clubs reaches this season, and gave them an unfair advantage this season. However I accept your point.Algarveaddick said:@Redmidland - I think the actual offence was in 2017/18 actually. But that's just semantics, your point remains vaild.
Cheers
RedM1 -
They were all cleared of any wrong doings.Coyotejohn1947 said:This question may have been asked and answered previously but did these shananigans with the sale of the ground at Sheff Weds occur when Katrien Meire was there? I seem to recall that she, along with Chansiri and the financial director were charged as individuals over this matter as well but those charges were earlier dropped - the substantive charge being brought against the 'club' itself.
But it was flesh and blood people who made the decision to cheat not the nuts and bolts of the stadium, the club name itself or however else you define the club. How can they not be accountable for their actions but the club is?
When Meire left Charlton I remember writing that her brand of football 'marketing' should not be inflicted on any other club in Europe let alone the UK. Little was I to know that Meire, as well as being involved in one Charlton relegation when she was CEO here, is, if not personally responsible, then by some extraordinary twist of fate somehow involved in yet another .
The stadium sale was actually proved to be legit...Derby County will get off scott free you watch!
The punishment is for going over 39M rolling over 3 years.
The EFL are not fit to run a tap.
Chansiri has ruined our club and football in general is corrupt and fucked....the last straw for me.19 -
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Do you think that Wednesday have should have been given the points deduction this season then?operationpig said:
They were all cleared of any wrong doings.Coyotejohn1947 said:This question may have been asked and answered previously but did these shananigans with the sale of the ground at Sheff Weds occur when Katrien Meire was there? I seem to recall that she, along with Chansiri and the financial director were charged as individuals over this matter as well but those charges were earlier dropped - the substantive charge being brought against the 'club' itself.
But it was flesh and blood people who made the decision to cheat not the nuts and bolts of the stadium, the club name itself or however else you define the club. How can they not be accountable for their actions but the club is?
When Meire left Charlton I remember writing that her brand of football 'marketing' should not be inflicted on any other club in Europe let alone the UK. Little was I to know that Meire, as well as being involved in one Charlton relegation when she was CEO here, is, if not personally responsible, then by some extraordinary twist of fate somehow involved in yet another .
The stadium sale was actually proved to be legit...Derby County will get off scott free you watch!
The punishment is for going over 39M rolling over 3 years.
The EFL are not fit to run a tap.
Chansiri has ruined our club and football in general is corrupt and fucked....the last straw for me.
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ok, that provides further explanation re the nature of the charges but it does not excuse the punishment not being applied this season.operationpig said:
They were all cleared of any wrong doings.Coyotejohn1947 said:This question may have been asked and answered previously but did these shananigans with the sale of the ground at Sheff Weds occur when Katrien Meire was there? I seem to recall that she, along with Chansiri and the financial director were charged as individuals over this matter as well but those charges were earlier dropped - the substantive charge being brought against the 'club' itself.
But it was flesh and blood people who made the decision to cheat not the nuts and bolts of the stadium, the club name itself or however else you define the club. How can they not be accountable for their actions but the club is?
When Meire left Charlton I remember writing that her brand of football 'marketing' should not be inflicted on any other club in Europe let alone the UK. Little was I to know that Meire, as well as being involved in one Charlton relegation when she was CEO here, is, if not personally responsible, then by some extraordinary twist of fate somehow involved in yet another .
The stadium sale was actually proved to be legit...Derby County will get off scott free you watch!
The punishment is for going over 39M rolling over 3 years.
The EFL are not fit to run a tap.
Chansiri has ruined our club and football in general is corrupt and fucked....the last straw for me.
For that there is no excuse or mitigation - something stinks!0 -
I wonder what Sir Dave Richard's view is on this? Ex Wendies Chairman at the FA0
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Redmidland said:
Hi @Algarveaddick, yes I believe you're correct, but that gave them the funds to buy players out of many other clubs reaches this season, and gave them an unfair advantage this season. However I accept your point.Algarveaddick said:@Redmidland - I think the actual offence was in 2017/18 actually. But that's just semantics, your point remains vaild.
Cheers
RedM
Indeed. Unfair advantages like having Stephen Fletcher who scored in the 94th minute in their 1-0 win over us3 -
Legal action would be futile. The time has now arrived for solidarity amongst all clubs and their fans, to end the corruption and do the fair and just thing, in the long term interests of the game.Redrobo said:It would be interesting if we tried to get an injunction stopping the start of the season until the matter is resolved.
The threat should at least concentrate the minds.
Self interest needs to be put to one side. This year we suffered, next year it could be a Luton or Huddersfield etc to suffer.
I talk to football fans from clubs up and down the country every week, who are sick to death of the way the game is being run.
A coalition of six or more clubs need to get together, make a stand, and refuse to kick a ball again until the EFL do the right thing.5 -
superclive98 said:
Except that, despite Chris Sutton's invitation, the BBC will only have ears for the fans of Arsenal and Chelsea. They don't give a shit about the Championship/League One and certainly not about Charlton.jimmymelrose said:
Well, that's an open invitation to drown out the noise from wanky Arsenal and Chelsea.guinnessaddick said:
Too true. I've called in on several occasions without success. Next time when they ask me who I support I shall lie. Last time I rang was about PPG and relegation and they wouldn't let me on because they said my idea was crazy. Later in the programme a Liverpool fan was on saying exactly what I had wanted to say.0 -
Imagine if Wednesday had been somewhere between 1st and about 7th in the few weeks after they were charged and had continued there until lockdown. There are two scenarios
1. The EFL recognise the potential problem and ensure that the case is concluded on a timely basis. They are either found guilty or not and any impact is clearly felt within the season.
2.They follow the same time line as has actually been the case and Wednesday get told their punishment 4 days before they are due to play in the play-off final. When does it get applied? If they go up is it applied in the premiership or only when they return to the EFL. If they lose the final the EFL breathes a sigh of relief and applies it in 2020/21. Of course in this scenario the loser is the team that would’ve finished 6th, but they still only had a 1 in 4 chance of promotion.The preposterous mess of scenario 2 shows that even an organisation as useless as the EFL wouldn’t have let it slide into late July. For the integrity of the league at the top or the bottom it should have been sorted. Clearly the delay and the 14 days for an appeal has probably tied the EFL’s hands, but it is all it’s own fault. The irony of a team being punished for applying a large amount of money to the wrong year’s accounts by having the punishment applied to the wrong year is beyond belief. I know my view is tinged by our situation, but has there ever been a worse failure of governance?1 -
A glance at the local Sheffield media sites indicates that Sheffield Wednesday may be considering an appeal against the 12 point deduction. What is more revealing however is that (given that the ruling arrives from an Independent panel advising the EFL then they too (i.e. the EFL can appeal).
Evidently this is not unprecedented with the EFL appealing a decision of the panel to deduct points from Macclesfield which the EFL feels should be raised to a greater number than that recommended by the panel.
Clearly, it might be risky for Wednesday to appeal the points deduction which could see it increased rather than decreased or worst case scenario for them imposed this season, but the EFL have the wherewithal to appeal not only the amount of points but the timing of the imposition of the penalty.
I would argue that the EFL can at the last gasp do the right thing and appeal the decision if not on the points total deduction itself, then on the timing which in any right-minded process needs to be applied this season
............ given that, as a result the evasion of financial regulations over a three year period ending in 2017/18, this allowed the advantages which accrued to the resources of Sheff Weds to be applied during season 2018-19 without penalty and season 2019-20 without penalty even though those resources (specifically in terms of the quality of players signed and wages paid) were employed in gaining points this season from clubs who are now 'relegated'.
Clearly, it is impossible to know how results would have turned out had Wednesday not sought this budgetary advantage and were instead signing and paying players within their means (as were the majority of Championship clubs) but the fact remains that they did and for example took 6 points from Charlton this season - a club not charged with having broken profitability and sustainability rules.
If it is purely a matter for the EFL of sweeping this under the carpet. drawing a line under it however you want to put it, in order that the new season can begin unhindered by the uncertainly of which League some clubs will be playing in due to the fear of legal action and subsequent appeals, then I'm afraid that is something the EFL have brought upon themselves by not acting swiftly and decisively in getting this matter dealt with in November 2019 when it was first brought to their attention.
I urge the EFL to do the right thing now and appeal the decision of the panel and to request the imposition of the 12 point penalty on Sheffield Wednesday this season. Yes, of course Wednesday would then appeal that decision and yes this would drag on, but for the EFL not to so do would be an injustice of the highest magnitude.5 -
operationpig said:
They were all cleared of any wrong doings.Coyotejohn1947 said:This question may have been asked and answered previously but did these shananigans with the sale of the ground at Sheff Weds occur when Katrien Meire was there? I seem to recall that she, along with Chansiri and the financial director were charged as individuals over this matter as well but those charges were earlier dropped - the substantive charge being brought against the 'club' itself.
But it was flesh and blood people who made the decision to cheat not the nuts and bolts of the stadium, the club name itself or however else you define the club. How can they not be accountable for their actions but the club is?
When Meire left Charlton I remember writing that her brand of football 'marketing' should not be inflicted on any other club in Europe let alone the UK. Little was I to know that Meire, as well as being involved in one Charlton relegation when she was CEO here, is, if not personally responsible, then by some extraordinary twist of fate somehow involved in yet another .
The stadium sale was actually proved to be legit...Derby County will get off scott free you watch!
The punishment is for going over 39M rolling over 3 years.
The EFL are not fit to run a tap.
Chansiri has ruined our club and football in general is corrupt and fucked....the last straw for me.
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Telegraph Story here:
Charlton consider legal action after Sheffield Wednesday's 12-point penalty is delayed until next season
Sheffield Wednesday were found guilty of financial misconduct following an investigation by the EFL
By John Percy 31 July 2020 • 7:00pmCharlton are considering taking legal action after Sheffield Wednesday were hit with a 12-point penalty when they were found guilty of financial misconduct but had their punishment delayed until next season.
The English Football League have been conducting a lengthy investigation after charging the Yorkshire club in November over charges of breaching Profitability and Sustainability rules relating to the £60 million sale of their Hillsborough stadium.
And an independent disciplinary commission on Friday imposed the 12-point sanction but ruled it would only come into effect next season rather than for the current campaign.
A 12-point deduction would have seen Wednesday relegated and Charlton - who finished third from bottom - have immediately said they are consulting their lawyers, labelling the decision “irrational”.
“The club is considering a legal challenge following the news that Sheffield Wednesday will receive a sporting sanction that will take effect in the 2020/21 season,” Charlton said in a statement.
“Sheffield Wednesday were charged in November 2019 for breaching the EFL’s Profitability and Sustainability Rules for the three-season reporting period ending with Season 2017/18.
“We fail to understand why the deduction will take place next season rather than the current season, which seems to be irrational, and are writing to the EFL to get an explanation of the justification. The club will keep fans updated on any further action.”
Wednesday had denied the charge, which related to “how and when” Hillsborough was sold, and its subsequent inclusion in the 2017/18 accounts when it was sold a year later.
Wednesday had denied the charge and also issued a counter-claim against the EFL for allegedly "acting unlawfully".
The club, which finished eight points clear of the relegation zone, appeared in front of the three-person panel last month and the verdict was finally reached on Friday evening, with Wednesday saying they were “disappointed” with the outcome.
“The club is extremely disappointed that the commission has imposed a 12-point deduction to be applied next season and awaits the written reasons for this decision,” they said in a statement.
“The club welcomes the decision that the commission cleared Sheffield Wednesday of the charge of acting in bad faith in its dealings with the EFL.
“Further, the commission decided not to apply a 12-point deduction this season, thereby imposing relegation.
“The club will await the written reasons for the sanction and upon receipt will digest and consider the full detail with its legal advisers before making any further comment.”
The EFL's statement read: "An independent Disciplinary Commission, appointed under EFL Regulations, has ruled that Sheffield Wednesday will receive a 12 point deduction for breaching the League’s Profitability and Sustainability Rules for the three season reporting period ending with Season 2017/18.
"The sporting sanction will take effect in season 2020/21. The club was charged in November 2019 and referred to an independent Disciplinary Commission, which conducted a full hearing at the end of June 2020, before finding the Club guilty based on the fact that the Club should not have included profits from the sale of Hillsborough Stadium in the Club’s financial statements for the period ending July 2018.
"The club was found not guilty of a further charge of breaching its duty of utmost good faith to the EFL by deliberately concealing information from the League in respect of filings made in respect of the Profitability and Sustainability Rules."
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