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Results day
Comments
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I think it's common practice and way more likely for schools to be over generous than under. Upgrading from a U to a C is a bit over exaggerated but commonly people will be given higher grades than they should. I sat my GCSE's and A levels 2013-2015. We sat controlled assessments in a number of subjects which made up part of the grade and were marked by teachers before a handful were sent off and moderated. From my experience my school always boosted everyone at the lower end marks up a little bit so no one failed. However when moderated everyone got marked down a grade boundary and we ended up with results were people at the top end had much better exam scores than controlled assessment scores.golfaddick said:
I cant see any school "marking up" a student from a U to a C. That would be plain daft & tantamount to cheating.follett said:It's a stupid system whereby the whole school gets moderated together. That means if the school gives favourable scores to some of the students at the lower end, everyone gets punished and downgraded. For example if they gave students a C grade when they should have received a U, the entire school will be moved down a grade or two. This makes it impossible for kids that would have gone on to score 100% to get the top marks as their grade will be moved down no matter what.
It's why we have seen private schools go up 4% on their usual grades and non private schools do poorly. A fundamentally flawed system where people are missing out on top universities. If anyone has been adversely affected by this I would recommend taking a year out working and studying and taking the actual exam next year to showcase true ability
Surely the best way is to take their predictive grades from their tracking stats. Seeing as these tracking stats have been around for a few years & used by schools to show parents how the child is doing. If they are not accurate then what's the point of them...?1 -
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My son is waiting for his GCSE's next week. He didnt do that well in his mocks - a mix of 3's & 4's with 2 5's. I'm fearing the worst now.sirjohnhumphrey said:We worked really hard in making sure our predicted grades at both A level and GCSE were fair and a true representation of what each student would have achieved if they sat the exams. We then had to put them in an order, so for example if three children in a class we predicted an A which would get the higher A etc etc.
I can honestly say that we did this as fairly and equitably as possible but of course it is hard to remove the personal factor as these are kids you have taught for 7 years in some cases.The way this has been handled has been terrible. To come out the day before the results and say that mock grades may be used says it all. Mocks are also teacher marked and assessed and are conducted in a variety of ways.As a school we did well. Only some of our brighter students who were looking at 3 As or A* were marked down by a grade.
I see that schools in the private sector have achieved the highest increase in top grades. Funny that.
It has been an awful experience for so many families and today has seen some dreams shattered through incompetence, confusion and bloody mindedness.
We will do what we can to get the children the results they deserve so they can have the future they deserve.
On TV this morning Gavin Williamson said that grades have to be harsh to ensure young people in future are not given positions in employment they do not have the ability to fulfil. He said this with no sense of irony!0 -
Jints said:
Nope. Lots of other downgrades at his schoolPemburyAddick said:
Was there any explanation or rationale?Jints said:Teacher predictions of 3 Bs for my son downgraded to 3 Cs. Not happy. Looking at resits unless the Government does a big u-turn.
That is intensely aggravating. My son is 19 so the GCSE malarkey is a fairly recent memory. My recollection was that his predicted grades were hugely over stated. His mock results weren't good, but that didn't worry us as it was just part of the process in building towards a successful conclusion - ie you might have performed badly but that was just a learning process towards correcting weaker areas before the bit that mattered - the exam itself. Which is why I can't see why mocks results should be used.For what its worth I would, if you can, ask what the appeal process is, and what rationale was used for the B grades, and then the rationale for downgrading. you at least have a basis for appeal if you want to contest. you at least know then what you are contesting.
sirjohnhumphrey above seems to have a very good knowledge, and I wonder if he can advise?
Very best wishes to you and your son - hope you get a good outcome
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With mocks they tend to be marked ‘worst case’ scenario to remove the potential of complacency. It is not uncommon for students to make a significant leap in the months between mocks and exams. We put much more stock in students performance in lessons rather than the mocks as that gives a more consistent overview. We also know a lot of students do not put the requisite effort into preparing for mocks. They are more to show teachers what the students don’t know rather than what they do, which then informs the rest of the year’s learning. For example my son went from a 4 in December in maths to a 6 in his GCSE.golfaddick said:
My son is waiting for his GCSE's next week. He didnt do that well in his mocks - a mix of 3's & 4's with 2 5's. I'm fearing the worst now.sirjohnhumphrey said:We worked really hard in making sure our predicted grades at both A level and GCSE were fair and a true representation of what each student would have achieved if they sat the exams. We then had to put them in an order, so for example if three children in a class we predicted an A which would get the higher A etc etc.
I can honestly say that we did this as fairly and equitably as possible but of course it is hard to remove the personal factor as these are kids you have taught for 7 years in some cases.The way this has been handled has been terrible. To come out the day before the results and say that mock grades may be used says it all. Mocks are also teacher marked and assessed and are conducted in a variety of ways.As a school we did well. Only some of our brighter students who were looking at 3 As or A* were marked down by a grade.
I see that schools in the private sector have achieved the highest increase in top grades. Funny that.
It has been an awful experience for so many families and today has seen some dreams shattered through incompetence, confusion and bloody mindedness.
We will do what we can to get the children the results they deserve so they can have the future they deserve.
On TV this morning Gavin Williamson said that grades have to be harsh to ensure young people in future are not given positions in employment they do not have the ability to fulfil. He said this with no sense of irony!I expect the furore following today’s results will lead to some shift which could have a knock on for GCSEs.
What I tell my own children and those I teach is that these exams are about getting you to the next step of your education. They are really no the be all and end all. If your son knows what he needs to get for the next phase of his study and achieves that then that will be all he needs.I hope he is successful next week and you can relax a bit!6 -
My daughter got exactly the same grades today. Very proud of her, but by god it’s a mess. She said,’ How can I feel proud about something I didn’t actually do?’seth plum said:My beautiful nephew and if anything Charlton Fan (always Boxing day, occasional other matches) got an A*, A and B today.
Not a freebie either, but thoroughly deserved.
My Charlton fan brother in tears of happiness this morning.2 -
Thanks Pembury. I don't think that it is possible for individuals to appeal - it has to be the school.
I agree - it's not the end of the world and it's important to learn to fail and improve. I did badly in my O Levels (that's how old I am) but have ended up having a pretty successful legal career.0 -
Without knowing details it’s hard to predict what your son’s school will do but we are certainly appealing a number of those marked down by a grade as we believe we have the evidence, data and historical performance to back our judgement.Jints said:Teacher predictions of 3 Bs for my son downgraded to 3 Cs. Not happy. Looking at resits unless the Government does a big u-turn.
There are some positive messages in Twitter from people who work for clearing who are encouraging students to get in touch with their first choice unis whatever their as they seem to be aware of the monumental cock up, particularly for students who attend state schools and are looking at predicted and mock grades as part of their offer. I hope it works out for you.2 -
Yes, mocks can give you a kick that you need. Isn't that part of the point of them.sirjohnhumphrey said:
With mocks they tend to be marked ‘worst case’ scenario to remove the potential of complacency. It is not uncommon for students to make a significant leap in the months between mocks and exams. We put much more stock in students performance in lessons rather than the mocks as that gives a more consistent overview. We also know a lot of students do not put the requisite effort into preparing for mocks. They are more to show teachers what the students don’t know rather than what they do, which then informs the rest of the year’s learning. For example my son went from a 4 in December in maths to a 6 in his GCSE.golfaddick said:
My son is waiting for his GCSE's next week. He didnt do that well in his mocks - a mix of 3's & 4's with 2 5's. I'm fearing the worst now.sirjohnhumphrey said:We worked really hard in making sure our predicted grades at both A level and GCSE were fair and a true representation of what each student would have achieved if they sat the exams. We then had to put them in an order, so for example if three children in a class we predicted an A which would get the higher A etc etc.
I can honestly say that we did this as fairly and equitably as possible but of course it is hard to remove the personal factor as these are kids you have taught for 7 years in some cases.The way this has been handled has been terrible. To come out the day before the results and say that mock grades may be used says it all. Mocks are also teacher marked and assessed and are conducted in a variety of ways.As a school we did well. Only some of our brighter students who were looking at 3 As or A* were marked down by a grade.
I see that schools in the private sector have achieved the highest increase in top grades. Funny that.
It has been an awful experience for so many families and today has seen some dreams shattered through incompetence, confusion and bloody mindedness.
We will do what we can to get the children the results they deserve so they can have the future they deserve.
On TV this morning Gavin Williamson said that grades have to be harsh to ensure young people in future are not given positions in employment they do not have the ability to fulfil. He said this with no sense of irony!I expect the furore following today’s results will lead to some shift which could have a knock on for GCSEs.
What I tell my own children and those I teach is that these exams are about getting you to the next step of your education. They are really no the be all and end all. If your son knows what he needs to get for the next phase of his study and achieves that then that will be all he needs.I hope he is successful next week and you can relax a bit!0 -
Can anyone offer a solution to closing schools for 7months and having exams set and also how schools will increase in size overnight to accomodate another year group.I live near 3 teachers who are “scared” to go back to work yet have broken lockdown rules regularly since March1
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My solution would be difficult but would give students the respect they deserve. I would look at predicted grades compared to actual grades for a school over five to six years and create a more refined algorithm based on that. Allied to that, have a well defined appeals process that schools can use for individual pupils when they see a clear anomaly. Also, any variation below five per cent, automatically use the teachers' assessments. Basically, show a 5% generosity factor. It still wouldn't be perfect, but would take into account the way these things can fluctuate which I think the government has failed to do.1
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No VI form at my place but one of the most deprived cohorts nationally, expecting to get a kicking next week from GCSE results despite smartest cohort in 5 years and across the board improvements for last 4 out of 5 years. Last year's cohort especially difficult. No doubt this year's kids will suffer. Being in school really matters for our kids but faux concern throughout from press, politicians and the like is bullshit as the "success" of independent schools shows via the A level results. Especially galling when in some areas state out performs independent every time but still had their kid's results downgraded.
@palarsehater I've got colleagues that are indeed frightened to come to work mate but not for the sneering shite reasons you imagine. Don't by association tar me and mine with your broad brush strokes.
As for A level results my lad predicted 4A* and got one of them. In his best performing subject he was downgraded to a B, he was not the worst affected by a long chalk. Were his grades inflated by teachers? No. Already hosted inter school and transnational student events and worked on the recent research project into Northern Irish schools' history GCSE module choices.
He'll go to uni as planned and be the first to do so, proud of the boy. Is he bothered by results - yes in as much as he feels he achieved nothing because the exams were not completed. Am I bothered? too fucking right I am, especially when I see bought privilege being reinforced and justified by over promoted and under qualified pricks like Williamson.
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What the government doesn't understand is that you can't just say we want X of this and Y of that. You have to try to give the kids what they deserve, If it pushes your Xs and Ys to the wrong place, it may be that it was a good year or a bad year if the opposite.
So you start from the start when you are doing this, not from the end point and work back. If a school has say a recent 5% historical variance in its predicted grades to actual grades and the government system shows a 20% variance for that school, it has to be the government's system that is wrong.0 -
I think it’s perfectly acceptable for teachers to be ‘scared’ and also understandable. I’m nervous about the return but mainly because I have a key role in ensuring that the return goes well. Of course the medical concerns are fully justified. Teachers will be in an environment that they haven’t been in for near on six months and in a context which is unprecedented. In my case 1100 people all trying to work out how this will go.palarsehater said:Can anyone offer a solution to closing schools for 7months and having exams set and also how schools will increase in size overnight to accomodate another year group.I live near 3 teachers who are “scared” to go back to work yet have broken lockdown rules regularly since March
Just like with the exams, the governments approach to reopening has been shambolic. Basically it is on headteachers to ensure that it goes smoothly with little or no help from the government.Of course there are a number of people out there who believe teachers have had it easy; that they just want to sit around doing nothing all day if they can get away with it. That’s the government and right wing press line (see the Telegraph headline re results) and I urge you to give it no credence.
The fallout from the exam debacle will be another thing to contend with and we will. Let’s see what GCSEs bring...6 -
Quite apart from the shit show evolving with downgraded marks and bias toward independent schools, I have been shocked about how many stories I have read of student X being the first person from that school to be offered a conditional place at Oxbridge.
I though we lived in a meritocracy, we should be marching with burning branches and pitch forks over this, whatever your politics.0 -
Well, there you go everyone. A complete u turn but the correct decision to get out of the mess that has been created through incompetence.
Hopefully those if you with children caught up in this farce will achieve the grades that they deserve and go on to the next stage of their studies a little more stress free.9 -
It is what should have happened. There is something that is wrong still which is where the algorithm gave higher grades, those students will keep the higher grades. But I suppose it is a consequence of the mess created. The fair way was always to use teacher assessments as that is exactly what they were.0
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Nasty party strikes again. Thinking about this whole situation boils my blood. No accountability for these dogs and crooks, none whatsoever. They will continue to fumble their way into their next cabinet appointment and political job until they can retire at a nice hedge fund while the rest of us make them their money.1
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They are incompetent and the consolation is that they will not be around for a long time after the next election. They kicked out all the talented Tories. We now have Johnson, Patel, WIlliamson, Gove.......... it goes on! The bad news is that is about 4 years away!0
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And now left to the universities to sort the mess of whether to admit those that they had previously and far too quickly withdrawn places from and how to accommodate all those now entitled to take up their places.
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Yes, it is still a mess.theeenorth said:And now left to the universities to sort the mess of whether to admit those that they had previously and far too quickly withdrawn places from and how to accommodate all those now entitled to take up their places.0 -
How is Williamson still in a job?0
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There has been a change in politics and this isn't about party politics. Remember the Conservative Party leadership election. The approach was to keep Johnson from talking so as not to put his foot in it. Then the General Election and we saw something similar and Conservatives with a different view were kicked out. With the COVID crisis, deny the errors or delay the judgement, with Cummings just ignore how ridiculous it all was and front it out. With this scandal too. Don't admit you are wrong. The problem here was that a lot of the Government's own supporters draw the line at shafting the lives of many thousands of young people so openly.0
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In the space of six months has any Government had as many U turns as this one? Or told as many lies?
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God only knows. Still, if he was able to get another senior post after his conduct as Secretary of State for defence then this is small fry. The bigger issue is Nick Gibb, Education Minister for ten years and has overseen many a cock up but has remained in post.RedArmySE7 said:How is Williamson still in a job?1 -
Do they really though? When the next election rolls around will they remember this and the countless other blunders or will the turkeys continue to vote for Christmas?MuttleyCAFC said:There has been a change in politics and this isn't about party politics. Remember the Conservative Party leadership election. The approach was to keep Johnson from talking so as not to put his foot in it. Then the General Election and we saw something similar and Conservatives with a different view were kicked out. With the COVID crisis, deny the errors or delay the judgement, with Cummings just ignore how ridiculous it all was and front it out. With this scandal too. Don't admit you are wrong. The problem here was that a lot of the Government's own supporters draw the line at shafting the lives of many thousands of young people so openly.0 -
A lot of this scandal would have been avoided if Gove, the worst education secretary of any era, hadn't done away with modular courses and coursework. He should be dragged through the mud.4
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For a good independent explanation of the detailed deficiencies of the algorithm devised by Ofqual listen to this morning's Radio 4 'More or less' on catch-up. The Royal Statistical Society told the Government it wasn't fit for purpose but was ignored. Either the Government didn't take the trouble to ask the right questions of Ofqual or it decided not to take any notice of them. Whichever it was, Williamson is culpable and should have gone by now.1
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One of my sister's friends from university is a Maths teacher, and he's told her that one of the kids he teaches got upgraded from a 5 to a 6 by the algorithm. I should imagine said student will be particularly over the moon given that they'd been entered for the Foundation Tier, which means the highest grade they could have got if they sat the exam was a 5. Definitely something odd going on there.
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