England Squad (v Republic of Ireland/Belgium/Iceland from p29)

johnnybev1987 said:

Dazzler21 said:

I'm stating I don't believe in 'luck' as the term is used so freely.

Can you tell me it wasn't going to be a goal already?

Mount made his own luck by having a shot. He speculated someone might make a mistake and so was rewarded with a goal.

I hate it when people pass off success as luck. People who work harder or try things more often always seem to be more 'lucky' weird isn't it.

It's almost like their work is being rewarded.

I think we are definitely not going to agree here, however do you think its luck or skill how united get alot of Penalties? Surely they consistently get them it must not be luck

One penalty decision, can be a bit of luck like ours was

One shot can get lucky, like Mount did. From where the ball was going to where it ended up it looked like there was a huge element of luck, i get your thinking and i wont dismiss it completely as i agree that Mount made his own luck. However it was a very lucky goal and unlikely without the huge deflection he woulds score. 

Or even more simply if Mount did not mean to hit the defender in his shot, there is luck. Regardless whether he is shooting or not, no shot has the divine right to go in and i dont really agree you cant put it down to solely luck going in.

Maybe the way the term luck is often used is the bit that I disagree with.  Likely because people seem to treat luck like it is some magical force.

People often believe that some have more or less luck by default. "I'm so unlucky, you're so lucky, I never win anything" etc That bugs me. How many times did you enter the competition? How much/hard did you train at the thing? The other person has usually earned their place through hard work or multiple competition entries etc. 

United get a lot of penalties either by forcing errors in by running at players and often by buying them by going over easy or outrightly cheating by hounding the referee or diving. I believe that you hit shots knowing that you intend it to go in the net and you know it can fly wide or over or be saved... It can also be fumbled or deflected in. 

I believe that if you make your own opportunities you seem to have more so called luck.

So yeah on contemplation I don't believe in luck in the way many overuse the term.

I'll admit the deflection was a combination of speculation and that led to luck. 

New Zealand have cancelled their friendly with us in November

Algarveaddick said:

Dazzler21 said:

thenewbie said:

Dazzler21 said:

I know I have said this before, but there's no such thing as luck. 

People are willing to reject sightings of Ghosts or UFO's but willing to believe in luck?

There's absolutely such a thing as luck. Scientifically it's probably more accurately described as probability or statistical something-or-other but it exists.
Mount's shot hitting someone at the exact right point that it moved in exactly that way and went in is exactly what luck is. Of all the potential outcomes, this one fell in England's favour but if you repeated the exact same circumstances in exactly the same way the ball would end up somewhere completely different.

 Luck is not a thing. 
 
 The defender was forced into a mistake. Do you think the defender thought 'Oh that was unlucky' or 'Should have got more on it/Committed sooner/Stood him up a second longer'.

 Freak goals like Darren Bent's beach ball assisted goal are harder to argue...

What you've explained is the physics of the way the ball moved after it left Mount's boot and its direction was changed by a defender trying to clear and making a mistake. 

Mount receives the ball, defender tries to read Mount's intent, Mount shoots defender mistakenly mistimes block, ball ends up in the same goal it was headed towards, just with a loop rather than the direct line it left his boot. 

Was the penalty Dier gave away unlucky? No he made a mistake. No luck incorrect decision to try and slide past Lukaku. 

Dier wasn't unlucky - but Lukaku fooled the ref. The ball was going off to the right and instead of following it, Lukaku moved left so he would fall over Dier.  

Our penalty wasn't exactly crime of the century either. 

Go to ground like Dier did and any decent striker is going to fall over you. 

Can’t see us breaking Denmark down with that lineup. 

Laddick01 said:

Mount over Grealish again. He’s doing it for a laugh at this point I’m sure.

A young RB over an actual LB at LB is criminal too.

I dunno, one scored the winning goal against the number one ranked team in the world, the other got an assist against the Wales B team. It's not exactly an unconscionable selection decision is it?

Grealish must've banged Southgate's daughter

As said before Southgate will keep playing the same players until a change such as injury forces his hand. He is leaving out form players and picking his starting team based on loyalty. He is an idiot

Laddick01 said:

Garrymanilow said:

Laddick01 said:

Mount over Grealish again. He’s doing it for a laugh at this point I’m sure.

A young RB over an actual LB at LB is criminal too.

I dunno, one scored the winning goal against the number one ranked team in the world, the other got an assist against the Wales B team. It's not exactly an unconscionable selection decision is it?

Deflected goal vs an absolutely class assist.

Thats not the best argument.

It's a perfect argument. It doesn't matter that it was deflected, Mount scored the winner and had a good game against Belgium, who are a very good side. Grealish's assist was also very good. Personally I think I would have liked to see Grealish start as well, but acting like Southgate is taking the piss selecting the bloke who scored the winner in our last game is just silly. It's not like he's picked Deji to play there is it?

Garrymanilow said:

Laddick01 said:

Garrymanilow said:

Laddick01 said:

Mount over Grealish again. He’s doing it for a laugh at this point I’m sure.

A young RB over an actual LB at LB is criminal too.

I dunno, one scored the winning goal against the number one ranked team in the world, the other got an assist against the Wales B team. It's not exactly an unconscionable selection decision is it?

Deflected goal vs an absolutely class assist.

Thats not the best argument.

It's a perfect argument. It doesn't matter that it was deflected, Mount scored the winner and had a good game against Belgium, who are a very good side. Grealish's assist was also very good. Personally I think I would have liked to see Grealish start as well, but acting like Southgate is taking the piss selecting the bloke who scored the winner in our last game is just silly. It's not like he's picked Deji to play there is it?

If a huge deflection and not a lot else means you had a good game then I don’t know what the standards is.

He dropped Grealish after a good performance, yet retains Mount this game. He must have something against Grealish which seems ridiculous considering how good he’s been this season.

I don’t hate Mount, but it’s worrying when managers blatantly favour certain players.

How the fuck has he not picked Sancho again?

Would’ve liked to have seen Henderson given a go in goal.

Laddick01 said:

Garrymanilow said:

Laddick01 said:

Garrymanilow said:

Laddick01 said:

Mount over Grealish again. He’s doing it for a laugh at this point I’m sure.

A young RB over an actual LB at LB is criminal too.

I dunno, one scored the winning goal against the number one ranked team in the world, the other got an assist against the Wales B team. It's not exactly an unconscionable selection decision is it?

Deflected goal vs an absolutely class assist.

Thats not the best argument.

It's a perfect argument. It doesn't matter that it was deflected, Mount scored the winner and had a good game against Belgium, who are a very good side. Grealish's assist was also very good. Personally I think I would have liked to see Grealish start as well, but acting like Southgate is taking the piss selecting the bloke who scored the winner in our last game is just silly. It's not like he's picked Deji to play there is it?

If a huge deflection and not a lot else means you had a good game then I don’t know what the standards is.

He dropped Grealish after a good performance, yet retains Mount this game. He must have something against Grealish which seems ridiculous considering how good he’s been this season.

I don’t hate Mount, but it’s worrying when managers blatantly favour certain players.

Except that's not all Mount did. He had a decent game, he adds a lot more to a game in terms of defensive input, movement and shape than people notice, which is why he keeps getting picked for Chelsea and England. Football's not all just eye-catching runs. It was a team performance that beat Belgium. He didn't drop Grealish, he played a different side for a friendly, which every manager does. Again, I like Grealish a lot, but the idea that it's ludicrous to play Mount ahead of him is just daft. They're both good players, it's entirely possible that a manager can pick someone to do a job rather than having 'something against' one player and choosing to 'blatantly favour' another. Maybe Mount will play well, maybe Grealish will come on and change the game. It's good that we have these options

Oops Rashford.