Post Match Thread: Hull City v Charlton | Sat 02 Jan 2021

carly burn said:

killerandflash said:

I don't rate Bogle, and that's not a new thing as I was wary about him when he signed. He was poor today.

However what I don't like is managers calling out players for missing a chance. Bowyer did it today with Bogle, and did it before with Bonne. Strikers don't score every chance, even the best miss chances. Watching Quest just now, the likes of Troy Deeney and Todd Cantwell both missed sitters, and it's hardly the way to get confidence in a player if they get hauled off and publicly bollocked after missing their one chance.

 He's digging a player out a week. Two today if you include Pratley.
He is however reluctant to dig himself out.

It's not a good look and won't have gone unnoticed in the dressing room.
I fear he may be running out of options.
It is what it is as they say,and whether he likes it or not he needs the majority of this squad to get him out of the hole he's in. I doubt there will be many helping hands if he continues to slag them off.

To those thinking the transfer window will be our saviour. Do you really think Bowyer in his current mindset needs more players to tinker with?

It’s taken Pratley getting sent off for him to finally get some sort of criticism.  I’m not saying I want Pratley to get criticised, but it seems to me Bowyer does have his targets and I don’t think he does it fairly.  Also, it’s not just about the criticism.  He embarrassed Williams by hauling him off after coming on as sub at Shrewsbury, only for Williams to respond with a goal and really decent performance as sub against AFC a week later.  Williams’ reward, to not start at all the following week against Swindon???

it’s a confrontational style of leadership and management, and there are volumes of qualified research and data into how that type of management is why employees leave workplaces in their droves.  I get a football club is a bit different, but the same principle applies.  People want to be inspired and motivated by leaders and managers in these times.  This is key.  Look at Klopp.  I’m not suggesting Bowyer can replicate Klopp, but the trend is for managers that inspire 

Rob said:

The word bizarre has been used a lot on here today and I was using that word a lot during the game when messaging family and friends.

As has been said, playing players out of position is frustrating but Manager's do that so it's not that unusual. Also, persisting with players who have just not turned up previously (ala. Bogle) is also not that unusual, especially with a lack of other players for that position. But, what is unusual and frankly bizarre is not playing your best attacking/creative player when it was obvious the game needed it. Bowyer himself said in his post match interview the need to "get bodies forward as much as we possibly could". Well, I would have thought the best way to do that was to bring Maddison on. And he chose not to. Maddison is obviously our most creative player, and he has proven that he can make things happen in a split second. And he was purposely left on the bench when the game was crying out for it.

It is this last point that has me seriously questioning Lee Bowyer's judgment. I feel not only am I losing patience with him but I'm also losing confidence in him. If it isn't obvious to him that the best thing to have done today to "get bodies forward" would have been to bring Maddison on then I'm not sure any more that I have the confidence in what he is telling us or what his plans are for the January window. I do believe Thomas will give him time but can Lee turn it around? Most of us hope so I'm sure. But the more I see Lee's bizarre team selections and tactics over the past few weeks the more I'm doubting he will be able to change things. I never would have said that a couple of months ago.          

totally agree but this isn't a recent thing - he's been doing this for a year now - obsessed with defending 

Cardinal Sin said:

Danny Addick said:

For what it’s worth, my opinion is that Bows is doing alright with a brand new squad that includes crap strikers. He’s still in credit but needs to improve once he gets Schwartz in. I’m a bit surprised at the playing players out of position too but as he’s said in the post match interview, he has a reason (at least!) 

Unless Eddie Howe fancies another project starting in the lower leagues, which I highly doubt, I’d leave Bows, Jacko and Gallen to do their thing.

I think Danny makes a few good points here. I was raging about today's line-up and performance and Bowyer's persevering with tactics and players that aren't working. However, as fans we would be laughing at other clubs' fans looking to ditch their until now successful manager after a bumpy spell and be calling them bedwetters. The last thing we want is to start sacking managers prematurely, especially ones who have over-performed already in the job. 

We all know we have been terribly unlucky to lose Inniss and Famewo for so long and we were short up front from the off and with a salary cap.

Having said all that, we must have someone better than Bogle. He joined us with a chronically poor track record which he's battled hard to maintain. I won't pay to watch another stream if he's playing.

One thing I say about other clubs fans.....they watch the games, they know the players & their best positions. They know when the manager gets it wrong or gets it right. Fans aren't fickle. They just KNOW. How many on here watch the streams of other clubs. I bet very very few. So when other fans ring up 606 or Talksport going on about their managers tactics and why x,y or z should be sacked I don't laugh at them or say they are stupid or "be careful what you wish for" because those fans go to games (pre Covid) or pay for live streams and they know what the manager should be doing. Fans aren't stupid. 

LouisMend said:

https://twitter.com/LouisMend/status/1345480333563719681

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/lee-bowyer-has-say-after-darren-pratley-is-sent-off-during-charltons-loss-at-hull/

Bowyer is disappointing.  Every week slagging off a different player.  Just go and find a team who appreciate your brilliance.  Or go back to fishing.  I'd be glad to see the back of you.

Just looking at the upcoming fixtures & we could really be on the slide if we don't get at least 1 win out of our next 2 games. Both at home (next Friday & then the following tues). The only other teams in the top 6 playing during this period are Lincoln & Peterborough  & so by the following weekend we will have played 3 more games than most of the top 6 & if we lose to Accrington next Friday we will be 7th......and looking down rather than up. Teams like Oxford, who were in the bottom 6 just a month or two ago are now just 4 points behind us. They stuck FIVE past the hapless Burton.......the team that beat us 4-2. 

The only reason why we are in such a good position in the table is down to that great run of wins we had......which was primarily down to having a great defence & a speedy outlet. Sadly those 3 players (Famewo, Innis & Doughty) won't be back until late Feb /early March, by which time the play-offs will be far away in the distance. Sad to say that we will he spending another season in this wage capped league on 2021/22. No surprise that it might take our customary 3 years to get promoted.

Bowyer likes experienced players in his side. Fair enough.
But sadly most over 30 year-olds lose their pace. Also these journeymen may be carrying past injuries and become pale shadows of their past excellence.
It's a blend of youth and experience that makes a team tick.

Duchatelet's model was to promote promising young imports and Academy players for the "shop window". Not the first owner who had thought of this. Apart from being the most odious of owner's he knew very little about football - or CAFC. A commodity like his other business interests, totally divorced from the CAFC FANS ideologies, lives, loves, history, hopes and ambitions.

It's been fantastic to have Sandgaard looking after the running of CAFC (minus structural assets). Bowyer and Gallen has been given total freedom (within cap and budget) to exercise control of player recruitment. Strangely it appears that our younger players are mostly ignored. The aim is about promotion - whatever it takes. We all know this. But it shouldn't mean that prospects like Barker, Lapslie, Vennings and Davison should be out of contention when these "experienced players" aren't performing. There may well be a few others that Jason Euell could mention. Morgan is a fine player, still developing. But like Gallagher (now WBromwich), he should be played more regularly. 
Maasten is a good young Chelsea loanee  - if played on his favoured left side. We need a few more players of his youth, skill, pace and qualilty. Could be that we already have a few knocking on the door!

The reason I want Bowyer gone is that I believe the squad is better than its recent results. I do accept 100% that we have suffered with key injuries but you adapt tactically around that. Or at least you try to.

I don't expect anybody to remember my position but up until the resumption from lockdown, I believed Bowyer was a great manager headed for the top. I supported him through the poor run we had last season because it was clear it was caused by a small squad and injuries. A couple of games stood out for me as managerial ineptness and they were Sheff Wednesday and Birmingham away and I believe these games cost us. But I also could see that it cost us what Bowyer had won us.

I have been holding off calling for him to go until now, but the repeated craziness of his ultra negative approach has just taken its toll. We are still well enough placed to get promoted and that creates a dilemma if you believe Bowyer is not going to maximise the possibility of promotion.

As for the claim that I don't know that Bowyer has lost the dressing room, or at least parts of it, I will say two things. Firstly, J Block, who is a trusted poster, has told us this from a playing source. It is absolutely right we don't know who that source is. Secondly, digging people out and not taking any blame yourself is a guaranteed way of doing this and that is what we have seen. You don't have to be a football genius to see Bowyer has been going about things the wrong way.

I don't see many defending his tactics. Just a few hoping he will change. I myself was hoping he would do so, but it is clear he won't. Had he picked a side that maximised the possibilities and failed, then it is the squad. Within parameters, as there will always be differences in team selection.  But generally, when you see the team it raises eyebrows and it has become more and more bizarre. When a manager drops the previous man of the match it is bizarre. Bowyer has done this twice in recent games.

For me, it is a question whether we risk writing off the season or not. Now Sandgaard is a breath of fresh air and ultimately the club will go forwards under his ownership. But he must be wondering what is going on and if he suspects Bowyer may be holding back the chance of an early promotion he will surely act. If as I feel is very likely, Bowyer has lost parts of the dressing room, then he has to as this never gets fixed when it happens. 

I am not for losing JJ, Gallen or anybody else. I think our recruitment is not an issue. Bowyer is responsible for these tactics, not anybody else.

Yesterday was abysmal. However, Bowyer has earned the right to have this January window under Sandgaard. Not many wanted him out before the 2 centre halves got injured. We need some patience here...

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

Yesterday was abysmal. However, Bowyer has earned the right to have this January window under Sandgaard. Not many wanted him out before the 2 centre halves got injured. We need some patience here...

So, how long does Bowyer get? A week after the end of the window? That prevents a new face making his mark on the signings.

To the end of the season? That could blow any chance of promotion based on current form and team set up and selection.

I would love Bowyer to turn it around and perhaps he will. Based on current evidence, I'm afraid that I don't see it though.

Given the ambitions Thomas has voiced, I'd be surprised if he allows Bowyer to continue for much longer if there is no change in approach. 

TellyTubby said:

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

Yesterday was abysmal. However, Bowyer has earned the right to have this January window under Sandgaard. Not many wanted him out before the 2 centre halves got injured. We need some patience here...

So, how long does Bowyer get? A week after the end of the window? That prevents a new face making his mark on the signings.

To the end of the season? That could blow any chance of promotion based on current form and team set up and selection.

I would love Bowyer to turn it around and perhaps he will. Based on current evidence, I'm afraid that I don't see it though.

Given the ambitions Thomas has voiced, I'd be surprised if he allows Bowyer to continue for much longer if there is no change in approach. 

Do you think another manager could come in and get us up this season ? 

Cafc43v3r said:

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

TellyTubby said:

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

Yesterday was abysmal. However, Bowyer has earned the right to have this January window under Sandgaard. Not many wanted him out before the 2 centre halves got injured. We need some patience here...

So, how long does Bowyer get? A week after the end of the window? That prevents a new face making his mark on the signings.

To the end of the season? That could blow any chance of promotion based on current form and team set up and selection.

I would love Bowyer to turn it around and perhaps he will. Based on current evidence, I'm afraid that I don't see it though.

Given the ambitions Thomas has voiced, I'd be surprised if he allows Bowyer to continue for much longer if there is no change in approach. 

Do you think another manager could come in and get us up this season ? 

Yes.   Do you think anyone else could have done much worse, with the players available, over the last 2 months? 

Yes Fromage the laundry basket man ‘spread out’ 😉.

Bogle couldn’t hit a banjo, let alone a cow’s arse with a banjo.

DOUCHER said:

CAFCsayer said:

This comment says it all for me...

"When asked for his thinking behind the new role for the Chelsea loanee, Bowyer explained: “We thought [Malik] Wilks would be playing on the right. He’s been playing on the right all the time, coming in on his left foot and he’s very good at it. So, I thought Adam, he’ll be coming on to his strong foot as well, his right foot.Adam had done well in the last game in possession, he was very good on the ball."


So when he saw that Wilks was playing on the left Matthews playing out of position and a rapid Wilks against an aging Gunter. No plan b

more than that, it shows how obsessed with defending he is - time to go, lost it completely 

I'll agree that we do not appear to be the most attractive of teams to watch.

shine166 said:

Love Bowyer, but if hes given until the end of the season and we dont finish in the playoffs, he has to go. I know we got hammered by injuries last season, but his decision making was awful and we dropped endless points that would have kept us up. 

TS arrived and demanded attacking football and promotion, neither of which are happening. Still plenty of games to go though, need a good jan and not to lose any more players 

Sandgaard has given two seasons for promotion. Hopefully he'll stick to his words and give Bowyer time.
Loyalty and stability has long gone and made football the mess it is now.

ElfsborgAddick said:

shine166 said:

Love Bowyer, but if hes given until the end of the season and we dont finish in the playoffs, he has to go. I know we got hammered by injuries last season, but his decision making was awful and we dropped endless points that would have kept us up. 

TS arrived and demanded attacking football and promotion, neither of which are happening. Still plenty of games to go though, need a good jan and not to lose any more players 

Sandgaard has given two seasons for promotion. Hopefully he'll stick to his words and give Bowyer time.
Loyalty and stability has long gone and made football the mess it is now.

Shut up