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January 2021 Transfer Targets (last minute swoop for Jaiyesimi p184 - NOW it's all over.)
Comments
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Bowyer threw a team together again in 2 weeks and we are 6th. He needs credit for that.Garrymanilow said:
I wonder what some people's plan for the season was to be honest. This season has been setback after setback after setback. I really do think that if you swapped out Sandgaard for Roland we wouldn't have a massively different team to what we have now though. Loans, players signed on frees and generally convinced to take lower wages than they were on previously to play for us. We paid a fee for Gilbey but that was technically under ESI 2. The only main difference is we wouldn't have Schwartz under Roland. The cap has completely blunted the effectiveness of Sandgaard coming in on the football side, and the major difference in feeling seems to be that now people are angry at Bowyer instead of accepting of the limitations he has in front of him. This cap is an absolute nightmare and I really pray the clubs get to vote on it again this summerTodds_right_hook said:
Agreed. We are not that good at the moment but when players return, we will be good enough for the play offs. The play offs are a lottery, plus bowyer seems to do better against the big teams.Garrymanilow said:
This is truly pathetic. Sat in 6th place, 6 points off top spot in January and the season's over after a bit of bad form. Come on, cheer up. Bloody hell, we're not in the relegation places!blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squadThe season might not be going to plan for some supporters but I bet the professionals who run the footballing side of things, who have all been involved in the game on a daily basis since the age of 16, are not worried and would have taken 6th at the start of the season.
bowyer is now blaming everyone else, he needs to keep his mouth shut and focus on “the journey”5 -
The reason being Garry, Peace as a passenger with a much better CB behind him in Bauer just about allowed us to get through. Pearce's individual mistakes have cost us the last two games. I'd compare Famewo and Innis (who I actually think are better than we had that year), but how much of the season are we having to play without them? I'm only comparing to what we have available now.Garrymanilow said:
Those are some strange comparisons though. Why are you comparing Pearce to Bauer and Sarr when he played in the same play-off final defence as those two? When you compare Bauer and Sarr (who wasn't a regular in our L1 defence) then it should be to Inniss and Famewo. Pratley was also in the same team as Cullen and Bielik and was the key player in our play-off run. Probably better to compare Cullen and Bielik to Shinnie and Watson. Not a winning comparison there but we were very lucky those players were available on loan when they were. I agree that our team isn't a strong as that year but you can't compare the best players in a squad with the worst. Equally you can compare Josh Parker with Chuks Aneke, or Ben Reeves with Marcus Maddison and we look brilliantVfrf said:
It's not about a short memory, it's about comparing Cullen/Bieliek to Watson/Pratley, and Bauer/Sarr to Pearce/Deji, Taylor to anybody we have now...felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
Anybody who thinks we're still in with a shout are delusional given the competition this year.
That said, I'm not devastated about it, let's begin next year hopefully with Amos/fit Innis/hopefully Ofoborh and Schwartz as our spine and build around it. We were carrying far too much journeyman driftwood and legacy contracts this year to realistically be competitive under the salary cap.
Pratley was a super-sub for us when legs got tired, and he can do that position well, but again - as a central player he simply isn't good enough - he's also 2 years older from then and he wasn't good enough to begin with! No, it wouldn't be better to compare to Shinnie, Watson and Pratley play in Bielik/Cullen's position so if anything you'd compare them to Gilbey.
Facts are, overall we are a weaker side. Dijksteel, Aribo, Taylor, Bielik, Bauer. You can say what you want and compare how you want, but I'm telling you now we will not make promotion this year - simple as.
EDIT: Afterthought, Shinnie you'd compare to Aribo - which is why I haven't because I don't believe there's too much between them - maybe Aribo slightly ahead because of his trickery and goals.0 -
Is this the transfer rumours thread15
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In a sort of transfer news
Championship clubs are set to reject an £18m Salary Cap0 -
Red, thats a far too measured and calm post! :-0Redmidland said:
Yes all teams go through purple patches and then have bad patches, we've had a purple patch and now are in a downturn, with our two first choice CB's missing. Everyone was saying what a great run Accrington was on, well they have just lost their last 3...conceding 8 and scoring none!iaitch said:
Everyone at the top is in and out of form so we're still in the hunt.Garrymanilow said:
This is truly pathetic. Sat in 6th place, 6 points off top spot in January and the season's over after a bit of bad form. Come on, cheer up. Bloody hell, we're not in the relegation places!blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
If one team, hopefully us, could be consistent then they could run away with this division.
LB has said he's looking to strengthen in a few areas, namely up-front, box2box midfielder, winger and at least 1 CB. Lets see what he can do, before we write off the season...there's 23 games to go, and Curbs has been saying the last few weeks, that its the final 10 games where you need to have a good run providing we're still in the mix by then!
C'mon why write off a season when just 50% through and the window still open?
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We may be in 6th on the current table but on PPG we are more likely to be 8th or 9th. I know teams don't always pick up points with their games in hand but I'm pretty sure we wouldnt be in 6th now if everyone had played 23 matches like us.Garrymanilow said:
This is truly pathetic. Sat in 6th place, 6 points off top spot in January and the season's over after a bit of bad form. Come on, cheer up. Bloody hell, we're not in the relegation places!blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad3 -
Yeah its the biggest frustration at the moment as would prefer to know exactly what it is we need to aim for in terms of pointsgolfaddick said:
We may be in 6th on the current table but on PPG we are more likely to be 8th or 9th. I know teams don't always pick up points with their games in hand but I'm pretty sure we wouldnt be in 6th now if everyone had played 23 matches like us.Garrymanilow said:
This is truly pathetic. Sat in 6th place, 6 points off top spot in January and the season's over after a bit of bad form. Come on, cheer up. Bloody hell, we're not in the relegation places!blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad0 -
That would still have been over 7 times the League 1 cap.ForeverAddickted said:In a sort of transfer news
Championship clubs are set to reject an £18m Salary Cap1 -
Wonder how many teams are already over that figurecafcfan1990 said:
That would still have been over 7 times the League 1 cap.ForeverAddickted said:In a sort of transfer news
Championship clubs are set to reject an £18m Salary Cap0 -
£18 million !!!!!!ForeverAddickted said:In a sort of transfer news
Championship clubs are set to reject an £18m Salary Cap
How can that equate to Leagues 1 & 2 ???
Do the EFL live in a parrell universe where there is no promotion & relegation and players don't get transferred between leagues ??
Or perhaps it's their idea of making The Championship "Premiership 2" and no "small" clubs in the lower leagues can dare compete on a level playing field.9 - Sponsored links:
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Yup, you've probably got that last bit spot ongolfaddick said:
£18 million !!!!!!ForeverAddickted said:In a sort of transfer news
Championship clubs are set to reject an £18m Salary Cap
How can that equate to Leagues 1 & 2 ???
Do the EFL live in a parrell universe where there is no promotion & relegation and players don't get transferred between leagues ??
Or perhaps it's their idea of making The Championship "Premiership 2" and no "small" clubs in the lower leagues can dare compete on a level playing field.
League One and League Two have probably just given the Championship its greatest opportunity for a Premier League Two without it ever actually happening - Be curious to see how future teams do when they get relegated down to League One as their teams should be vastly superior, even when they take away those who have to be sold0 -
Who cares, we're still Charlton. Same management team, just this time with a supportive owner and a functional club.Vfrf said:
It's not about a short memory, it's about comparing Cullen/Bieliek to Watson/Pratley, and Bauer/Sarr to Pearce/Deji, Taylor to anybody we have now...felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
Anybody who thinks we're still in with a shout are delusional given the competition this year.
That said, I'm not devastated about it, let's begin next year hopefully with Amos/fit Innis/hopefully Ofoborh and Schwartz as our spine and build around it. We were carrying far too much journeyman driftwood and legacy contracts this year to realistically be competitive under the salary cap.
You're comparing some strange players as well - why not compare Cullen (who, btw, I believe was overrated by many on here) and Bielik to Forster-Caskey, Shinnie and Morgan? Why not compare Sarr and Baeur to Innis and Famewo? Yes they're injured but they're still in the squad with 23 games remaining. A possible 69 points. Yes we had Taylor but he also lined up at Wembley alongside a one Josh Parker (We have Schwartz, Aneke et. al, aka a decent sized squad which we didn't have two year ago.)
Please don't call me delusional for 1) having a memory (especially when it comes to CAFC -we never do things the easy way) and 2) being supportive. For gods sake, we nearly lost our club over the summer. Back them and enjoy the football. I'm just happy I'm not reading about court cases anymore!
Also, please point to the 'competition this year.' I am genuinely interested because I've watched every game and we blew away Portsmouth and Ipswich. Imo we've been in every game (top half teams) apart from Hull and Accrington. We were the better team last night and some of the attacking football has been a joy to watch (Wimbledon & Rochdale.) Have some faith - sport never ends at the half-way point.6 -
A sensible post amongst the basket case as it so often is.ForeverAddickted said:
Yeah I'd agree with that - I wonder if Gilbey and even Washington are in a similar brackett to Levitt - We had to sign someone, we just had to else we were going into League One in a similar boat to the one Wigan found themselves inkillerandflash said:
Isn't Gilbey meant to be the box to box midfielder who scores goals?ForeverAddickted said:Would make sense going after that Exeter player then...
Had the Takeover happened sooner, would we have put the handbrake on and would we have gone looking for better? - They're gone now, they should be confined to the history books (if that) as I'm tired of talking about them myself, but throughout this bad run of form it feels still as though ESI are now being forgotten about with the season we're having.
They're the reason we had to try and make some in roads into strengthening when we did, when Gilbey and Washington came in, we certainly didnt know if Sandgaard's takeover was going to make it through - Feels too rosey, just because they've pissed off that everything can proceed and mend with speed, it aint gonna happen, its going to be a slow recovery unfortunately from the mess that ESI created, let alone recovering from the one that Roland left us inPeople may not like the quality of the players Gallen and Bowyer brought in, miraculously so considering the off the field position we were in, even after Sandgaard took over. But it could have been significantly different, and I doubt we were too far off joining Wigan in admin and losing all our best players for pennies, and in some cases nothing.Only have to look at the difference in this transfer window, where everything is more settled and in our favour (as far as the wage cap will allow) to see the quality of signings we can still achieve when in 6th place in league 1. Millar has already shown a great deal and I think plenty of us are confident that Schwartz will start to hit the back of the frequently once he’s more settled.2 -
All about opinions mate.felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
My opinion is that we are nowhere near good enough for promotion.
Getting our two 1st choice centre halfs back will improve the defence but our midfield never look like they know what their job is.
As for being in 6th position this is a totally false position given the amount games in hand other teams have.
Personally I think we have zero chance of promotion this season with the players we have and rather than waste money on panic signings now I would rather wait until the summer and rebuild the squad then.7 -
Rumours?4
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Yeh I said top half teams. The bottom half teams I (hopefully) wouldn't consider as competition for promotion. Terrible performances, nonetheless.addick1956 said:
We were out played by MK Don's, Burton, Plymouth, Rochdale for a big part of the game , for a startfelix_31 said:
Who cares, we're still Charlton. Same management team, just this time with a supportive owner and a functional club.Vfrf said:
It's not about a short memory, it's about comparing Cullen/Bieliek to Watson/Pratley, and Bauer/Sarr to Pearce/Deji, Taylor to anybody we have now...felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
Anybody who thinks we're still in with a shout are delusional given the competition this year.
That said, I'm not devastated about it, let's begin next year hopefully with Amos/fit Innis/hopefully Ofoborh and Schwartz as our spine and build around it. We were carrying far too much journeyman driftwood and legacy contracts this year to realistically be competitive under the salary cap.
You're comparing some strange players as well - why not compare Cullen (who, btw, I believe was overrated by many on here) and Bielik to Forster-Caskey, Shinnie and Morgan? Why not compare Sarr and Baeur to Innis and Famewo? Yes they're injured but they're still in the squad with 23 games remaining. A possible 69 points. Yes we had Taylor but he also lined up at Wembley alongside a one Josh Parker (We have Schwartz, Aneke et. al, aka a decent sized squad which we didn't have two year ago.)
Please don't call me delusional for 1) having a memory (especially when it comes to CAFC -we never do things the easy way) and 2) being supportive. For gods sake, we nearly lost our club over the summer. Back them and enjoy the football. I'm just happy I'm not reading about court cases anymore!
Also, please point to the 'competition this year.' I am genuinely interested because I've watched every game and we blew away Portsmouth and Ipswich. Imo we've been in every game (top half teams) apart from Hull and Accrington. We were the better team last night and some of the attacking football has been a joy to watch (Wimbledon & Rochdale.) Have some faith - sport never ends at the half-way point.0 -
But that's what Pearce is now. He's behind two far better centre halves (and two years older, he's 33 now). He actually steadied us in the final after Naby had had a real pig of a half, though I doubt he'd be able to do that now. Our problem is more that we've been victims to really unfortunate injuries rather than the squad being nowhere near as good. If we'd been without Bauer for a longer period that season we would have struggled, just as we are now. You can't expect to have a team where you have four centre backs all at the same standard, particularly with this cap. Famewo and Inniss will come back from their injuries, which is why we're still within a shout this season. Pratley was one of our best players last season a league up, I don't think it's fair to say he's never been good enough. In fact, I think most people would agree he's improved massively from the first season he spent with us. Bielik and Cullen did not play the same role. Our best midfield was Bielik holding, Cullen creating from deep, Aribo going box to box and Williams at the tip. That's why I've made the comparisons I have. We might be weaker than that season, but injured players will return to make us stronger, like when we were winning games earlier in the season, and we've still got half the season to go. It's not over.Vfrf said:
The reason being Garry, Peace as a passenger with a much better CB behind him in Bauer just about allowed us to get through. Pearce's individual mistakes have cost us the last two games. I'd compare Famewo and Innis (who I actually think are better than we had that year), but how much of the season are we having to play without them? I'm only comparing to what we have available now.Garrymanilow said:
Those are some strange comparisons though. Why are you comparing Pearce to Bauer and Sarr when he played in the same play-off final defence as those two? When you compare Bauer and Sarr (who wasn't a regular in our L1 defence) then it should be to Inniss and Famewo. Pratley was also in the same team as Cullen and Bielik and was the key player in our play-off run. Probably better to compare Cullen and Bielik to Shinnie and Watson. Not a winning comparison there but we were very lucky those players were available on loan when they were. I agree that our team isn't a strong as that year but you can't compare the best players in a squad with the worst. Equally you can compare Josh Parker with Chuks Aneke, or Ben Reeves with Marcus Maddison and we look brilliantVfrf said:
It's not about a short memory, it's about comparing Cullen/Bieliek to Watson/Pratley, and Bauer/Sarr to Pearce/Deji, Taylor to anybody we have now...felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
Anybody who thinks we're still in with a shout are delusional given the competition this year.
That said, I'm not devastated about it, let's begin next year hopefully with Amos/fit Innis/hopefully Ofoborh and Schwartz as our spine and build around it. We were carrying far too much journeyman driftwood and legacy contracts this year to realistically be competitive under the salary cap.
Pratley was a super-sub for us when legs got tired, and he can do that position well, but again - as a central player he simply isn't good enough - he's also 2 years older from then and he wasn't good enough to begin with! No, it wouldn't be better to compare to Shinnie, Watson and Pratley play in Bielik/Cullen's position so if anything you'd compare them to Gilbey.
Facts are, overall we are a weaker side. Dijksteel, Aribo, Taylor, Bielik, Bauer. You can say what you want and compare how you want, but I'm telling you now we will not make promotion this year - simple as.
EDIT: Afterthought, Shinnie you'd compare to Aribo - which is why I haven't because I don't believe there's too much between them - maybe Aribo slightly ahead because of his trickery and goals.
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Could be wrong, but after games in hand are played, I think the worst position we could be in is 9th and 3 points off 6th.blackpool72 said:
All about opinions mate.felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
My opinion is that we are nowhere near good enough for promotion.
Getting our two 1st choice centre halfs back will improve the defence but our midfield never look like they know what their job is.
As for being in 6th position this is a totally false position given the amount games in hand other teams have.
Personally I think we have zero chance of promotion this season with the players we have and rather than waste money on panic signings now I would rather wait until the summer and rebuild the squad then.If we can get Inniss, Famewo and Doughty back, and the team begin to gel again, then 3 points is not an impossible challenge to turn around.3 -
IF Ipswich win all of their games in hand they will be 6 points ahead of us I think. Things can change very quickly at the moment as Accrington's form has shown.stoneroses19 said:
Could be wrong, but after games in hand are played, I think the worst position we could be in is 9th and 3 points off 6th.blackpool72 said:
All about opinions mate.felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
My opinion is that we are nowhere near good enough for promotion.
Getting our two 1st choice centre halfs back will improve the defence but our midfield never look like they know what their job is.
As for being in 6th position this is a totally false position given the amount games in hand other teams have.
Personally I think we have zero chance of promotion this season with the players we have and rather than waste money on panic signings now I would rather wait until the summer and rebuild the squad then.If we can get Inniss, Famewo and Doughty back, and the team begin to gel again, then 3 points is not an impossible challenge to turn around.
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Back to the Exeter lad, £1m sounds like a big fee, BUT...
- if Thomas is keen on "doing a Brentford" it's important to focus on the upside value and not just the initial fee. If Gallen thinks the youngster can help us get promoted this season, would do well as he develops in the Championship, and would then be worth at least £5m, it becomes a much more attractive proposition.
- if Thomas is serious in his ambition to get to the Premier League in 5 years (was it 5?), and we are restricted by the salary cap, the answer is to get the very best under 21s available to us. If that means an inflated fee, that's because a lot of other clubs will be after the same players, for the same reason, and the owning club will be able to charge a premium.
He won't achieve that ambition by signing more players with their better days a long way behind them.36 - Sponsored links:
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I'm inclined to agree. I note from the interview with Bowyer that it wasn't a case of Gallen saying he probably wasn't worth that - like he'd said previously about Mowatt, rightly or wrongly. The way he said priced out made it sound like we're just unwilling to pay it - and I do agree, any top talent youngster will have an inflated price tag with the salary cap for L1/L2 sides, and if Thomas isn't willing to back that then I don't think he'll be hitting his five year plan as we'll struggle to escape this league.Davo55 said:Back to the Exeter lad, £1m sounds like a big fee, BUT...
- if Thomas is keen on "doing a Brentford" it's important to focus on the upside value and not just the initial fee. If Gallen thinks the youngster can help us get promoted this season, would do well as he develops in the Championship, and would then be worth at least £5m, it becomes a much more attractive proposition.
- if Thomas is serious in his ambition to get to the Premier League in 5 years (was it 5?), and we are restricted by the salary cap, the answer is to get the very best under 21s available to us. If that means an inflated fee, that's because a lot of other clubs will be after the same players, for the same reason, and the owning club will be able to charge a premium.
He won't achieve that ambition by signing more players with their better days a long way behind them.
He has said previously that once established in the Championship he may bring on other investors to try and propel us to the next level, but I think we'll struggle to do that if we're still shopping for frees. Let's just hope it was the case of not being value for money as most of the Championship transfers in the summer were under £1mil, so I can see why we'd see an untested L2 prospect as not showing much value for that investment.1 -
Of course, and I am inclined to agree with a lot of what you say - my opinions regarding this team change with the weather. I think last nights spirited display (which I wasn't expecting) gave me some optimism.blackpool72 said:
All about opinions mate.felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
My opinion is that we are nowhere near good enough for promotion.
Getting our two 1st choice centre halfs back will improve the defence but our midfield never look like they know what their job is.
As for being in 6th position this is a totally false position given the amount games in hand other teams have.
Personally I think we have zero chance of promotion this season with the players we have and rather than waste money on panic signings now I would rather wait until the summer and rebuild the squad then.
In terms of signings, it appears that the players we are looking to bring in at the moment (young, driven, talented etc) have the future in mind, so maybe we are rebuilding early.1 -
The counter argument that would be considered is whether he's actually going to show that kind of quality consistently and improve, or is he simply having a flash in the pan season? If he looks very good at his current level but for whatever reason never really makes a mark at a higher level then it's a fairly expensive mistake.Davo55 said:Back to the Exeter lad, £1m sounds like a big fee, BUT...
- if Thomas is keen on "doing a Brentford" it's important to focus on the upside value and not just the initial fee. If Gallen thinks the youngster can help us get promoted this season, would do well as he develops in the Championship, and would then be worth at least £5m, it becomes a much more attractive proposition.
- if Thomas is serious in his ambition to get to the Premier League in 5 years (was it 5?), and we are restricted by the salary cap, the answer is to get the very best under 21s available to us. If that means an inflated fee, that's because a lot of other clubs will be after the same players, for the same reason, and the owning club will be able to charge a premium.
He won't achieve that ambition by signing more players with their better days a long way behind them.
I'm not saying this is definitely the case but at our current level you'd need to be very confident of an improvement for that kind of investment. Sorba Thomas for example is clearly a player they'd looked at, liked, but set a limit on. As soon as a club with less financial restrictions competed, we stepped out of the race.2 -
I agree with you for the most part - injuries have plagued us but that just shows our quality in depth isn't up to it. Also bare in mind the only reason I've said that I don't think we'll do it this year is Innis is over a month away, Famewo a few weeks too - and with the defence we have I really don't see us picking up many points in the next month. If we're playing two matches per week for the next month that's 8 games or 24 points up for grabs, our record over the past month or two without them speaks for itself. I don't think we're out of touch at this moment, but I think we very soon will be.Garrymanilow said:
But that's what Pearce is now. He's behind two far better centre halves (and two years older, he's 33 now). He actually steadied us in the final after Naby had had a real pig of a half, though I doubt he'd be able to do that now. Our problem is more that we've been victims to really unfortunate injuries rather than the squad being nowhere near as good. If we'd been without Bauer for a longer period that season we would have struggled, just as we are now. You can't expect to have a team where you have four centre backs all at the same standard, particularly with this cap. Famewo and Inniss will come back from their injuries, which is why we're still within a shout this season. Pratley was one of our best players last season a league up, I don't think it's fair to say he's never been good enough. In fact, I think most people would agree he's improved massively from the first season he spent with us. Bielik and Cullen did not play the same role. Our best midfield was Bielik holding, Cullen creating from deep, Aribo going box to box and Williams at the tip. That's why I've made the comparisons I have. We might be weaker than that season, but injured players will return to make us stronger, like when we were winning games earlier in the season, and we've still got half the season to go. It's not over.Vfrf said:
The reason being Garry, Peace as a passenger with a much better CB behind him in Bauer just about allowed us to get through. Pearce's individual mistakes have cost us the last two games. I'd compare Famewo and Innis (who I actually think are better than we had that year), but how much of the season are we having to play without them? I'm only comparing to what we have available now.Garrymanilow said:
Those are some strange comparisons though. Why are you comparing Pearce to Bauer and Sarr when he played in the same play-off final defence as those two? When you compare Bauer and Sarr (who wasn't a regular in our L1 defence) then it should be to Inniss and Famewo. Pratley was also in the same team as Cullen and Bielik and was the key player in our play-off run. Probably better to compare Cullen and Bielik to Shinnie and Watson. Not a winning comparison there but we were very lucky those players were available on loan when they were. I agree that our team isn't a strong as that year but you can't compare the best players in a squad with the worst. Equally you can compare Josh Parker with Chuks Aneke, or Ben Reeves with Marcus Maddison and we look brilliantVfrf said:
It's not about a short memory, it's about comparing Cullen/Bieliek to Watson/Pratley, and Bauer/Sarr to Pearce/Deji, Taylor to anybody we have now...felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
Anybody who thinks we're still in with a shout are delusional given the competition this year.
That said, I'm not devastated about it, let's begin next year hopefully with Amos/fit Innis/hopefully Ofoborh and Schwartz as our spine and build around it. We were carrying far too much journeyman driftwood and legacy contracts this year to realistically be competitive under the salary cap.
Pratley was a super-sub for us when legs got tired, and he can do that position well, but again - as a central player he simply isn't good enough - he's also 2 years older from then and he wasn't good enough to begin with! No, it wouldn't be better to compare to Shinnie, Watson and Pratley play in Bielik/Cullen's position so if anything you'd compare them to Gilbey.
Facts are, overall we are a weaker side. Dijksteel, Aribo, Taylor, Bielik, Bauer. You can say what you want and compare how you want, but I'm telling you now we will not make promotion this year - simple as.
EDIT: Afterthought, Shinnie you'd compare to Aribo - which is why I haven't because I don't believe there's too much between them - maybe Aribo slightly ahead because of his trickery and goals.
RE Pratley, that's all perspective, I think he's a real grafter and adds something to our game for sure, but he doesn't have quality. Somebody like that lad from Bournemouth would hopefully bring the physical presence with the skill too. I'm sorry I just don't think Pratley has enough quality, he tries but hasn't got the touch or distribution to make a real difference - runs alot and gets stuck in, that's his game. But like Beilik, who had all of that and the quality - that's the difference.
Watson is a deep-lying playmaker and Pratley is what you'd consider a natural CDM, so I don't know why you're getting so caught up on them being compared to Bielik and Cullen??
I agree we'll be stronger when the players return, but I think it'll be too late by then.3 -
They'll do that regardless.Valley11 said:Bowyer should look at this window like when he first took over. One eye on next season. Forget plugging holes to try and sneak into the play offs.The type of signings look like long term recruits and that’s great to see.
Nothing to stop them picking up 21 year olds and under.
But if you're not careful, January is the time to pay inflated prices.
And they can't rebuild with more senior players, unless some of the existing senior squad are shifted out first.
Remember it's not winning promotion that's the enemy, it's the wage cap.
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I think we're broadly in agreement. I don't think that you're right about Watson though. That might have been his role in his younger years but these days he's a spoiler put there to shield the defence, block shots and move the ball on. His role is proper defensive midfield in our team, though he doesn't seem to have anything like the pace needed to pull it off to the best level. Getting that Bournemouth lad in for him would be great.Vfrf said:
I agree with you for the most part - injuries have plagued us but that just shows our quality in depth isn't up to it. Also bare in mind the only reason I've said that I don't think we'll do it this year is Innis is over a month away, Famewo a few weeks too - and with the defence we have I really don't see us picking up many points in the next month. If we're playing two matches per week for the next month that's 8 games or 24 points up for grabs, our record over the past month or two without them speaks for itself. I don't think we're out of touch at this moment, but I think we very soon will be.Garrymanilow said:
But that's what Pearce is now. He's behind two far better centre halves (and two years older, he's 33 now). He actually steadied us in the final after Naby had had a real pig of a half, though I doubt he'd be able to do that now. Our problem is more that we've been victims to really unfortunate injuries rather than the squad being nowhere near as good. If we'd been without Bauer for a longer period that season we would have struggled, just as we are now. You can't expect to have a team where you have four centre backs all at the same standard, particularly with this cap. Famewo and Inniss will come back from their injuries, which is why we're still within a shout this season. Pratley was one of our best players last season a league up, I don't think it's fair to say he's never been good enough. In fact, I think most people would agree he's improved massively from the first season he spent with us. Bielik and Cullen did not play the same role. Our best midfield was Bielik holding, Cullen creating from deep, Aribo going box to box and Williams at the tip. That's why I've made the comparisons I have. We might be weaker than that season, but injured players will return to make us stronger, like when we were winning games earlier in the season, and we've still got half the season to go. It's not over.Vfrf said:
The reason being Garry, Peace as a passenger with a much better CB behind him in Bauer just about allowed us to get through. Pearce's individual mistakes have cost us the last two games. I'd compare Famewo and Innis (who I actually think are better than we had that year), but how much of the season are we having to play without them? I'm only comparing to what we have available now.Garrymanilow said:
Those are some strange comparisons though. Why are you comparing Pearce to Bauer and Sarr when he played in the same play-off final defence as those two? When you compare Bauer and Sarr (who wasn't a regular in our L1 defence) then it should be to Inniss and Famewo. Pratley was also in the same team as Cullen and Bielik and was the key player in our play-off run. Probably better to compare Cullen and Bielik to Shinnie and Watson. Not a winning comparison there but we were very lucky those players were available on loan when they were. I agree that our team isn't a strong as that year but you can't compare the best players in a squad with the worst. Equally you can compare Josh Parker with Chuks Aneke, or Ben Reeves with Marcus Maddison and we look brilliantVfrf said:
It's not about a short memory, it's about comparing Cullen/Bieliek to Watson/Pratley, and Bauer/Sarr to Pearce/Deji, Taylor to anybody we have now...felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
Anybody who thinks we're still in with a shout are delusional given the competition this year.
That said, I'm not devastated about it, let's begin next year hopefully with Amos/fit Innis/hopefully Ofoborh and Schwartz as our spine and build around it. We were carrying far too much journeyman driftwood and legacy contracts this year to realistically be competitive under the salary cap.
Pratley was a super-sub for us when legs got tired, and he can do that position well, but again - as a central player he simply isn't good enough - he's also 2 years older from then and he wasn't good enough to begin with! No, it wouldn't be better to compare to Shinnie, Watson and Pratley play in Bielik/Cullen's position so if anything you'd compare them to Gilbey.
Facts are, overall we are a weaker side. Dijksteel, Aribo, Taylor, Bielik, Bauer. You can say what you want and compare how you want, but I'm telling you now we will not make promotion this year - simple as.
EDIT: Afterthought, Shinnie you'd compare to Aribo - which is why I haven't because I don't believe there's too much between them - maybe Aribo slightly ahead because of his trickery and goals.
RE Pratley, that's all perspective, I think he's a real grafter and adds something to our game for sure, but he doesn't have quality. Somebody like that lad from Bournemouth would hopefully bring the physical presence with the skill too. I'm sorry I just don't think Pratley has enough quality, he tries but hasn't got the touch or distribution to make a real difference - runs alot and gets stuck in, that's his game. But like Beilik, who had all of that and the quality - that's the difference.
Watson is a deep-lying playmaker and Pratley is what you'd consider a natural CDM, so I don't know why you're getting so caught up on them being compared to Bielik and Cullen??
I agree we'll be stronger when the players return, but I think it'll be too late by then.
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Which one of you lot were raving about scouting Ellis Simms? He has joined Blackpool on loan.1
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That was all down to square pegs in round holes and Bowyer's constant experimentation with tactics and formations.addick1956 said:
We were out played by MK Don's, Burton, Plymouth, Rochdale for a big part of the game , for a startfelix_31 said:
Who cares, we're still Charlton. Same management team, just this time with a supportive owner and a functional club.Vfrf said:
It's not about a short memory, it's about comparing Cullen/Bieliek to Watson/Pratley, and Bauer/Sarr to Pearce/Deji, Taylor to anybody we have now...felix_31 said:
Are you joking... We're sixth (albeit just) and we're halfway through the season. Halfway. People have short memories...blackpool72 said:This season's over.
We ain't going up.
Rather than make rash decisions now wait until the summer and rebuild the squad
Anybody who thinks we're still in with a shout are delusional given the competition this year.
That said, I'm not devastated about it, let's begin next year hopefully with Amos/fit Innis/hopefully Ofoborh and Schwartz as our spine and build around it. We were carrying far too much journeyman driftwood and legacy contracts this year to realistically be competitive under the salary cap.
You're comparing some strange players as well - why not compare Cullen (who, btw, I believe was overrated by many on here) and Bielik to Forster-Caskey, Shinnie and Morgan? Why not compare Sarr and Baeur to Innis and Famewo? Yes they're injured but they're still in the squad with 23 games remaining. A possible 69 points. Yes we had Taylor but he also lined up at Wembley alongside a one Josh Parker (We have Schwartz, Aneke et. al, aka a decent sized squad which we didn't have two year ago.)
Please don't call me delusional for 1) having a memory (especially when it comes to CAFC -we never do things the easy way) and 2) being supportive. For gods sake, we nearly lost our club over the summer. Back them and enjoy the football. I'm just happy I'm not reading about court cases anymore!
Also, please point to the 'competition this year.' I am genuinely interested because I've watched every game and we blew away Portsmouth and Ipswich. Imo we've been in every game (top half teams) apart from Hull and Accrington. We were the better team last night and some of the attacking football has been a joy to watch (Wimbledon & Rochdale.) Have some faith - sport never ends at the half-way point.
He seems to have learned a lesson since.
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previous sent in error...sorry0
