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Savings and Investments thread
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Chippy, you just said your first house was essentially 3x your salary and only 22k.Chippycafc said:
I am going on what our young engineer's say when they are applying for their first house, 4 bed detached houses and have parents giving them hand ups, nothing like I and many others had the chance off...plus 0.00000001% mortgage rates....Rob7Lee said:I wonder if he meant an AIP rather than a full on true mortgage offer. You can certainly get an AIP in minutes online.
A two bed semi where I live will cost about 300k on average. Almost 14 times what you paid. I wonder how many 18-25 year old are earning the equivalent salary of 81k to match up with the opportunity you had.
Someone hasn't a clue, you got something right at least.2 -
It’s a bit of a myth. BTL in Germany is far bigger than in the UK. Only about 40% of people own the home they live in, UK in comparison is around 65-70%. They have a better rental system in my view with regard both tenants and landlord rights. A lot of BTL owners are accidental - ie inherited (hence why you are seeing property as illiquid), I know quite a few Germans who rent apartments around the outskirts of Munich but own their often late Grand Parents house that they rent somewhere else in Germany. Rents can be quite high in the major cities such as Munich.PragueAddick said:
Flat sharing is out nowadays? Really? Well, if you say so. Big mistake then. My brilliant Scottish friends back in SW London who are on the monthly Zoom calls, 40 + years after we met, were originally flatmates, best thing I ever did, moving into that house in Twickenham -at least until the England v Scotland games happened...I'm really very surprised by this assertion. I need to catch up on the status of my nephew and niece in Eltham, both adults now, both living with parents, but niece recently moved out, not sure if she is renting or buying but either way I am sure a friend is involved.Rob7Lee said:
I think the 'problem' is grossly exaggerated - look what you just mentioned, flat mate, sometimes 2, if I mentioned that to the average 25 year old they'd think I was mad.PragueAddick said:
11.375 was the bank rate that year, as I iust looked up. However in those days 3x salary was the max allowed, and I had a flatmate, sometimes two, to offset my outgoings. And Surbiton was a desirable place to live, even if considered a bit off the radar in ad agency circles.Rob7Lee said:
Here's a wild thought, going off piste a bit, maybe save for a few years?shine166 said:
Yeah those 4 bags really help get you over the line on a 300k gaff.Rob7Lee said:
If someone's earning /£30k a year they shouldn't be renting a flat/house at £1400 a month which is over 2/3rds of their take home pay, i'd agree in those instances they wouldn't ever save the deposit (but why £50k? 10% should be enough and they won't be buying a £500k property as their first home on £30k!).kentaddick said:
I agree, but there’s a whole generation that it basically was, and they then post snotty remarks on message boards claiming there’s no reason why a renter can’t save £50k to buy a home, whilst paying £1400pcm in rent, paying bills and food and travel to work and only earning ~£30k a year.bobmunro said:Rothko said:The issue is we haven't as a country built enough houses for year's, and does she have the means beyond paying rent and bills to save for a deposit, especially as rates for both have been abysmal for years100% - the social housing sold off by Thatcher has not been replaced and the buy to let market has filled the gap.There should be a) much much more social housing built and b) there should be a Fair Rent act to control ever increasing private rents.But I repeat, it is not a right to own a home.
Maybe they could do what the previous generation did when it was just so easy to buy your first house...... stay at home with parents if possible, if not, then like me rent a small room in a crappy area rather than a whole property in a preferred area, take a second job, go without and save that way.
Even for those that started this post (the twitter link) who may find it very difficult to save more than a little amount each month there is a way,
EDIT; the previous generation also didn't have help with things like LISA's or Help to Buy.
And what was the interest rate in 1985? 13-14%.PragueAddick said:
As a boomer, and a landlord, I would like to say that I agree with your sentiments.kentaddick said:
I agree, but there’s a whole generation that it basically was, and they then post snotty remarks on message boards claiming there’s no reason why a renter can’t save £50k to buy a home, whilst paying £1400pcm in rent, paying bills and food and travel to work and only earning ~£30k a year.bobmunro said:Rothko said:The issue is we haven't as a country built enough houses for year's, and does she have the means beyond paying rent and bills to save for a deposit, especially as rates for both have been abysmal for years100% - the social housing sold off by Thatcher has not been replaced and the buy to let market has filled the gap.There should be a) much much more social housing built and b) there should be a Fair Rent act to control ever increasing private rents.But I repeat, it is not a right to own a home.
I still own the house I was able to buy back in 1985 (selling it in summer). A while ago, I did an estimate of what had happened to the value of the house, compared with what had happened to the salaries of the job I had at the ad agency in London before I left in 1993. Basically at the time (some 20 years later), the salary appeared to have improved by 80% but the house value by 500%.
The major caveat, of course, is that we are talking London. But that is still a hell of a long-term imbalance.I’m surprised if you are seriously arguing that there isn’t a problem, and it’s all mainly a matter of attitude. That would be to ignore the unintended consequences of the buy-to-let legislation and the shameful encouragement of all kinds of hot and dirty money to buy up huge swathes of central London.
Like many other things, they are not having these issues in Germany and they have long thought our attitude to property ownership is barking.
Central London is like a different country, and not sure the average person was ever buying in central London.
What ever happened to move out to where you can afford, again, most don't want to - that is very much attitude. Show me any 18-20 year old doing the level of job I did (very much office junior at an insurance company/bank) and i'll show them how it can be done with true life, up to date, figures well before they are 25. Even someone out in rental at say 25 with little spare cash due to rent payments it can be done. (I mentioned lease to buy at the start).
Germany is very much a rental country - but who owns the property that's rented?
I do think renting should be more regulated and i'd go as far as having maximum rents set up to a level, but that in itself can cause issues. I still have a couple of tenants (properties owned by friendly society not me) that are fair rent, not as cheap as you may imagine and of course the agreements are very different to a modern short hold as to who is responsible for maintaining what.
You ask a very good question about who owns the rented German property, I'll look into that! However it's only half the story. More Germans are buying, but usually to live in what they buy. We actually plan to explore buying an apartment on the German coast, but the market seems very illiquid, people don't want to sell, and one reason why we like that coast is that they don't allow massive speculative building like in Spain.
You've completely missed the relevance of the Central London buying spree. It's the ripple effect. In the ad agency nobody lived in Kensington or Chelsea in 1992, but they certainly lived in places like Fulham or Putney. When the Russians Chinese and Arabs bought up the whole of K&C what do you think that did to the prices in Putney?..and then down the line to Wimbledon?...and then Surbiton?. Based on your principle of moving out to where you can afford, I guess I'd have ended up in Guildford on that basis. Well, sod that for a life...On renting rooms, my experience is it’s quite rare (to buy a house to live in and then rent a room). What’s become more common is a group of friends renting a house together, much like a lot of 2nd/3rd year Uni students do.
agree to an extent on London, but a much bigger driver is population (of people who want to live in London) I’m guessing you bought in the 80’s when the London population was around 6.5m. Today it’s 9m and still rising. That’s had a far bigger effect on rapidly rising prices than the Russians etc buying up central London. If you look at the last 25 years, London prices broadly have increased 6-7x in the North just about doubled. That’s predominantly supply & demand.
if you look at the inner/outer London split, 80’s was 2.5m inner 4m outer. Today it’s around 3.5m inner and 5.5m outer.
if you look away from London, in real terms property is cheaper to buy today than at almost any other time.1 -
I keep seeing 15% mortgate badge of honour, I fancy that no one on this thread has ever paid 15% in the UK.
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Anyone on a variable in 1979 probably did. In 89 some may have done so as well.I keep seeing 15% mortgate badge of honour, I fancy that no one on this thread has ever paid 15% in the UK.0 -
It was but it wasn't 300k in I983 was it....my salary now plus the times you get based on your wages, plus the interest rates, I could afford easily a 600/700k pound house today....so someone hasnt a clue.... your right....or understands...neither does your little like buddy.cafcpolo said:
Chippy, you just said your first house was essentially 3x your salary and only 22k.Chippycafc said:
I am going on what our young engineer's say when they are applying for their first house, 4 bed detached houses and have parents giving them hand ups, nothing like I and many others had the chance off...plus 0.00000001% mortgage rates....Rob7Lee said:I wonder if he meant an AIP rather than a full on true mortgage offer. You can certainly get an AIP in minutes online.
A two bed semi where I live will cost about 300k on average. Almost 14 times what you paid. I wonder how many 18-25 year old are earning the equivalent salary of 81k to match up with the opportunity you had.
Someone hasn't a clue, you got something right at least.0 -
As I said earlier, I bought my first property in 1988. A few months after I moved in the Halifax base rate went up......and kept going up for the next couple of years. At that time fixed rates weren't around & everyone was on their lenders SVR and so just had to ride it out. I believe I was paying around 10% when I moved in & indeed it did get to 15% in 1990 before falling back to around 12.5% by 1992. Then we have the ERM fiasco with the BOE base rate moving from 12% to 15% in one day.ThreadKiller said:I keep seeing 15% mortgate badge of honour, I fancy that no one on this thread has ever paid 15% in the UK.
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You didn't have a mortgage then in the mid 90sThreadKiller said:I keep seeing 15% mortgate badge of honour, I fancy that no one on this thread has ever paid 15% in the UK.0 -
Sadly some people are ignorant on these matters.Rob7Lee said:.ThreadKiller said:
Anyone on a variable in 1979 probably did. In 89 some may have done so as well.I keep seeing 15% mortgate badge of honour, I fancy that no one on this thread has ever paid 15% in the UK.0 -
Chippycafc said:
It was but it wasn't 300k in I983 was it....my salary now plus the times you get based on your wages, plus the interest rates, I could afford easily a 600/700k pound house today....so someone hasnt a clue.... your right....or understands...neither does your little like buddy.cafcpolo said:
Chippy, you just said your first house was essentially 3x your salary and only 22k.Chippycafc said:
I am going on what our young engineer's say when they are applying for their first house, 4 bed detached houses and have parents giving them hand ups, nothing like I and many others had the chance off...plus 0.00000001% mortgage rates....Rob7Lee said:I wonder if he meant an AIP rather than a full on true mortgage offer. You can certainly get an AIP in minutes online.
A two bed semi where I live will cost about 300k on average. Almost 14 times what you paid. I wonder how many 18-25 year old are earning the equivalent salary of 81k to match up with the opportunity you had.
Someone hasn't a clue, you got something right at least.I would hazard a guess that you are not in the 18-25 year old age range now! How much would you be earning today doing the job you were doing in 1983 and at the age you were in 1983?The maths are right - indeed someone hasn't a clue.0 -
TIL that apparently people work harder now cause they have to keep on top of emails in the evening compared to people who worked in the 80’s and 90’s.0
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No I am not ....but was when I bought my first house and know how it works and as I have grown up kids know how the situation...indeed someone hasnt a clue..and I am not an alleged accountant...bobmunro said:Chippycafc said:
It was but it wasn't 300k in I983 was it....my salary now plus the times you get based on your wages, plus the interest rates, I could afford easily a 600/700k pound house today....so someone hasnt a clue.... your right....or understands...neither does your little like buddy.cafcpolo said:
Chippy, you just said your first house was essentially 3x your salary and only 22k.Chippycafc said:
I am going on what our young engineer's say when they are applying for their first house, 4 bed detached houses and have parents giving them hand ups, nothing like I and many others had the chance off...plus 0.00000001% mortgage rates....Rob7Lee said:I wonder if he meant an AIP rather than a full on true mortgage offer. You can certainly get an AIP in minutes online.
A two bed semi where I live will cost about 300k on average. Almost 14 times what you paid. I wonder how many 18-25 year old are earning the equivalent salary of 81k to match up with the opportunity you had.
Someone hasn't a clue, you got something right at least.I would hazard a guess that you are not in the 18-25 year old age range now!The maths are right - indeed someone hasn't a clue.0 -
Chippycafc said:
No I am not ....but was when I bought my first house and know how it works and as I have grown up kids know how the situation...indeed someone hasnt a clue..and I am not an alleged accountant...bobmunro said:Chippycafc said:
It was but it wasn't 300k in I983 was it....my salary now plus the times you get based on your wages, plus the interest rates, I could afford easily a 600/700k pound house today....so someone hasnt a clue.... your right....or understands...neither does your little like buddy.cafcpolo said:
Chippy, you just said your first house was essentially 3x your salary and only 22k.Chippycafc said:
I am going on what our young engineer's say when they are applying for their first house, 4 bed detached houses and have parents giving them hand ups, nothing like I and many others had the chance off...plus 0.00000001% mortgage rates....Rob7Lee said:I wonder if he meant an AIP rather than a full on true mortgage offer. You can certainly get an AIP in minutes online.
A two bed semi where I live will cost about 300k on average. Almost 14 times what you paid. I wonder how many 18-25 year old are earning the equivalent salary of 81k to match up with the opportunity you had.
Someone hasn't a clue, you got something right at least.I would hazard a guess that you are not in the 18-25 year old age range now!The maths are right - indeed someone hasn't a clue.Yes I know how it works - I'm about the same age as you and my two sons are also homeowners.You missed my edit: How much would you be earning today doing the job you were doing in 1983 and at the age you were in 1983? That's the important bit, not what you actually earn now.Who is the alleged accountant? Unless you mean Turf Accountant!
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Mid 90’s you think the interest rate was 15%?Chippycafc said:
You didn't have a mortgage then in the mid 90sThreadKiller said:I keep seeing 15% mortgate badge of honour, I fancy that no one on this thread has ever paid 15% in the UK.0 -
He said he could easily afford a 600/700k house as an 18-25 year old. Meaning he'd be earning at least a good 80-100k in today's market at that age. I call BS, but if not he's in the absolute minority.bobmunro said:Chippycafc said:
It was but it wasn't 300k in I983 was it....my salary now plus the times you get based on your wages, plus the interest rates, I could afford easily a 600/700k pound house today....so someone hasnt a clue.... your right....or understands...neither does your little like buddy.cafcpolo said:
Chippy, you just said your first house was essentially 3x your salary and only 22k.Chippycafc said:
I am going on what our young engineer's say when they are applying for their first house, 4 bed detached houses and have parents giving them hand ups, nothing like I and many others had the chance off...plus 0.00000001% mortgage rates....Rob7Lee said:I wonder if he meant an AIP rather than a full on true mortgage offer. You can certainly get an AIP in minutes online.
A two bed semi where I live will cost about 300k on average. Almost 14 times what you paid. I wonder how many 18-25 year old are earning the equivalent salary of 81k to match up with the opportunity you had.
Someone hasn't a clue, you got something right at least.I would hazard a guess that you are not in the 18-25 year old age range now! How much would you be earning today doing the job you were doing in 1983 and at the age you were in 1983?The maths are right - indeed someone hasn't a clue.0 -
When I bought my first house you didn't have new cars, foreign holidays or any lavish items you have today, didn't go out for meals and the Mrs and myself Xmas and birthday presents were items for the house ie wardrobes for the bedroom....try telling any of today's spoilt brats they will have a cheap wedding, no honeymoon, and go without for a couple of years.
I am in work tonight and the engineer I am releasing got married two years ago, his wedding cost 32k, suit cost 2k made for measure savile row, horse and cart and everything else. For 18 months he whined about a deposit for the house he lives in...no family paid for it so he said....for one day....could have been a hefty deposit.3 -
Wife’s old colleague was the same. Over 35k on wedding, jugglers etc the lot then moaned they couldn’t raise a deposit for a house. As you say my first car was a Dolomite with 60k on the clock. Nowadays it’s down the local BMW dealer and drive away in a brand new X1 for £300 a month. It’s priorities.Chippycafc said:When I bought my first house you didn't have new cars, foreign holidays or any lavish items you have today, didn't go out for meals and the Mrs and myself Xmas and birthday presents were items for the house ie wardrobes for the bedroom....try telling any of today's spoilt brats they will have a cheap wedding, no honeymoon, and go without for a couple of years.
I am in work tonight and the engineer I am releasing got married two years ago, his wedding cost 32k, suit cost 2k made for measure savile row, horse and cart and everything else. For 18 months he whined about a deposit for the house he lives in...no family paid for it so he said....for one day....could have been a hefty deposit.4 -
Indeed mate try telling some of them, my old shift engineer spent £200 every weekend night clubbing in Newbury Thursday to Sunday taxi home, that's 800 quid a month, then whined he couldn't afford his own home.LargeAddick said:
Wife’s old colleague was the same. Over 35k on wedding, jugglers etc the lot then moaned they couldn’t raise a deposit for a house. As you say my first car was a Dolomite with 60k on the clock. Nowadays it’s down the local BMW dealer and drive away in a brand new X1 for £300 a month. It’s priorities.Chippycafc said:When I bought my first house you didn't have new cars, foreign holidays or any lavish items you have today, didn't go out for meals and the Mrs and myself Xmas and birthday presents were items for the house ie wardrobes for the bedroom....try telling any of today's spoilt brats they will have a cheap wedding, no honeymoon, and go without for a couple of years.
I am in work tonight and the engineer I am releasing got married two years ago, his wedding cost 32k, suit cost 2k made for measure savile row, horse and cart and everything else. For 18 months he whined about a deposit for the house he lives in...no family paid for it so he said....for one day....could have been a hefty deposit.0 -
I said now I could afford that not as an 18-25 year old based on my salary today not then. Glad your not my accountant, but dont need one, like to pay my fair share of tax and not pretend I am a leftie and then advise others how to be tax efficient.cafcpolo said:
He said he could easily afford a 600/700k house as an 18-25 year old. Meaning he'd be earning at least a good 80-100k in today's market at that age. I call BS, but if not he's in the absolute minority.bobmunro said:Chippycafc said:
It was but it wasn't 300k in I983 was it....my salary now plus the times you get based on your wages, plus the interest rates, I could afford easily a 600/700k pound house today....so someone hasnt a clue.... your right....or understands...neither does your little like buddy.cafcpolo said:
Chippy, you just said your first house was essentially 3x your salary and only 22k.Chippycafc said:
I am going on what our young engineer's say when they are applying for their first house, 4 bed detached houses and have parents giving them hand ups, nothing like I and many others had the chance off...plus 0.00000001% mortgage rates....Rob7Lee said:I wonder if he meant an AIP rather than a full on true mortgage offer. You can certainly get an AIP in minutes online.
A two bed semi where I live will cost about 300k on average. Almost 14 times what you paid. I wonder how many 18-25 year old are earning the equivalent salary of 81k to match up with the opportunity you had.
Someone hasn't a clue, you got something right at least.I would hazard a guess that you are not in the 18-25 year old age range now! How much would you be earning today doing the job you were doing in 1983 and at the age you were in 1983?The maths are right - indeed someone hasn't a clue.3 -
So a completely irrelevant point. Nice one. Avoided bobs question I see.Chippycafc said:
I said now I could afford that not as an 18-25 year old based on my salary today not then. Glad your not my accountant, but dont need one, like to pay my fair share of tax and not pretend I am a leftie and then advise others how to be tax efficient.cafcpolo said:
He said he could easily afford a 600/700k house as an 18-25 year old. Meaning he'd be earning at least a good 80-100k in today's market at that age. I call BS, but if not he's in the absolute minority.bobmunro said:Chippycafc said:
It was but it wasn't 300k in I983 was it....my salary now plus the times you get based on your wages, plus the interest rates, I could afford easily a 600/700k pound house today....so someone hasnt a clue.... your right....or understands...neither does your little like buddy.cafcpolo said:
Chippy, you just said your first house was essentially 3x your salary and only 22k.Chippycafc said:
I am going on what our young engineer's say when they are applying for their first house, 4 bed detached houses and have parents giving them hand ups, nothing like I and many others had the chance off...plus 0.00000001% mortgage rates....Rob7Lee said:I wonder if he meant an AIP rather than a full on true mortgage offer. You can certainly get an AIP in minutes online.
A two bed semi where I live will cost about 300k on average. Almost 14 times what you paid. I wonder how many 18-25 year old are earning the equivalent salary of 81k to match up with the opportunity you had.
Someone hasn't a clue, you got something right at least.I would hazard a guess that you are not in the 18-25 year old age range now! How much would you be earning today doing the job you were doing in 1983 and at the age you were in 1983?The maths are right - indeed someone hasn't a clue.1 -
What you his spokesman..and no apology for getting it wrong....and I will choose whom I respond too some people here I choose not too.cafcpolo said:
So a completely irrelevant point. Nice one. Avoided bobs question I see.Chippycafc said:
I said now I could afford that not as an 18-25 year old based on my salary today not then. Glad your not my accountant, but dont need one, like to pay my fair share of tax and not pretend I am a leftie and then advise others how to be tax efficient.cafcpolo said:
He said he could easily afford a 600/700k house as an 18-25 year old. Meaning he'd be earning at least a good 80-100k in today's market at that age. I call BS, but if not he's in the absolute minority.bobmunro said:Chippycafc said:
It was but it wasn't 300k in I983 was it....my salary now plus the times you get based on your wages, plus the interest rates, I could afford easily a 600/700k pound house today....so someone hasnt a clue.... your right....or understands...neither does your little like buddy.cafcpolo said:
Chippy, you just said your first house was essentially 3x your salary and only 22k.Chippycafc said:
I am going on what our young engineer's say when they are applying for their first house, 4 bed detached houses and have parents giving them hand ups, nothing like I and many others had the chance off...plus 0.00000001% mortgage rates....Rob7Lee said:I wonder if he meant an AIP rather than a full on true mortgage offer. You can certainly get an AIP in minutes online.
A two bed semi where I live will cost about 300k on average. Almost 14 times what you paid. I wonder how many 18-25 year old are earning the equivalent salary of 81k to match up with the opportunity you had.
Someone hasn't a clue, you got something right at least.I would hazard a guess that you are not in the 18-25 year old age range now! How much would you be earning today doing the job you were doing in 1983 and at the age you were in 1983?The maths are right - indeed someone hasn't a clue.6 - Sponsored links:
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It was certainly around that time or maybe earlier...you clearly question that figure and know you are wrong and are now back tracking, no surprise there. Go look it up...if you are that bothered.ThreadKiller said:
Mid 90’s you think the interest rate was 15%?Chippycafc said:
You didn't have a mortgage then in the mid 90sThreadKiller said:I keep seeing 15% mortgate badge of honour, I fancy that no one on this thread has ever paid 15% in the UK.0 -
Bought our first house in 1993 and the mortgage rate was 7.99%. It only ever came down thereafter.3
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Oh yes back in the 80s I did, well think a I did.ThreadKiller said:I keep seeing 15% mortgate badge of honour, I fancy that no one on this thread has ever paid 15% in the UK.1 -
Houses still cheap in France, bit of a commute though0 -
Not if you live in France!Daarrzzetbum said:
Houses still cheap in France, bit of a commute though1 -
Probably quicker on the Eurostar from Paris, than a train from Dartford.Daarrzzetbum said:
Houses still cheap in France, bit of a commute though1 -
But ok to purchase if you live in UK Bob 😏😏Vouvant in the Vendee is a charming historic lively village, just can’t get out there at the mo though.bobmunro said:
Not if you live in France!Daarrzzetbum said:
Houses still cheap in France, bit of a commute though0 -
I don’t disagree - some amazing properties at silly prices.Daarrzzetbum said:
But ok to purchase if you live in UK Bob 😏😏Vouvant in the Vendee is a charming historic lively village, just can’t get out there at the mo though.bobmunro said:
Not if you live in France!Daarrzzetbum said:
Houses still cheap in France, bit of a commute though1 -
When you say “or maybe earlier” it kind of looks like it’s you that’s back tracking.Chippycafc said:
It was certainly around that time or maybe earlier...you clearly question that figure and know you are wrong and are now back tracking, no surprise there. Go look it up...if you are that bothered.ThreadKiller said:
Mid 90’s you think the interest rate was 15%?Chippycafc said:
You didn't have a mortgage then in the mid 90sThreadKiller said:I keep seeing 15% mortgate badge of honour, I fancy that no one on this thread has ever paid 15% in the UK.Anyway, when I bought my house in 96 the interest rate at the time was was around 6%. Banks wanted your business so there was usually an attractive offer for the first 2-3 years.
When UK was forced out of the ERM in September 1992, interest rate went from 10% to 15% in one day, trying to defend the pound. The very next day it was straight back to 10%. You can check if you like.0 -
Sorry, hadn’t seen your reply. Yeah 1979 would have, I just figured they wouldn’t be on this thread as everyone comes across as much youngerRob7Lee said:.ThreadKiller said:
Anyone on a variable in 1979 probably did. In 89 some may have done so as well.I keep seeing 15% mortgate badge of honour, I fancy that no one on this thread has ever paid 15% in the UK.0
