Membership scheme

I don't quite understand the argument that the adult membership has no value as a ST holder.

For £25 (the price of a match ticket) I think there's 25 loyalty points on offer. You'd usually only earn 5 or 10 loyalty points for buying a match ticket yet you can earn 25 for the price of 5 or 10.

All the extra stuff then just comes free on top.

Given there could be quite a demand for away tickets I think it's well worth the value. Guess it comes down to whether the loyalty points will be of use to you for games like Wimbledon away.

JohnnyH2 said:

MartinCAFC said:

I don't quite understand the argument that the adult membership has no value as a ST holder.

For £25 (the price of a match ticket) I think there's 25 loyalty points on offer. You'd usually only earn 5 or 10 loyalty points for buying a match ticket yet you can earn 25 for the price of 5 or 10.

All the extra stuff then just comes free on top.

Given there could be quite a demand for away tickets I think it's well worth the value. Guess it comes down to whether the loyalty points will be of use to you for games like Wimbledon away.

Loyalty points were brought in by the club 3 seasons ago to ensure that those who go to all/most games can get a ticket when demand is higher than the supply. 

Yep I get that. But usually when demand outstrips supply not all the phases based on loyalty points are used which is when how many points you have really comes into play.

Henry Irving said:

Airman Brown said:

Henry Irving said:

BowSelecta said:

Having spent such a long time spending the absolute minimum on following CAFC to avoid RD getting his hands on my cash, I’m delighted to support the club and throw them a little more money. 

“It’s money grabbing / a gimmick” - that’s the bloomin’ point! Every club needs to maximise revenue. At least now the revenue is being invested back into the club

True but the prices aren't extortionate and no one has to pay them to get access to tickets or anything else.

Just as important as the money IMHO is the data.

Those overseas or far away may not be on the club's database but this way they are members to whom services can be marketed.

And that big sponsor/partner may well want to know we have 1000s of members worldwide.

I think you (and the club) may be overestimating the number of adults who will join a membership scheme with these benefits at that price point. It’s unlikely to be a number that would be material to a “big” sponsor, in my opinion.

I didn't estimate any numbers.

I was pointing out one of what I think the reasons behind the scheme are.

Whether it will work or not, both from a financial and data point of view I don't know.  None of the options attract me due to living locally, having a ST again and having no pets or young children.

But I and the other adult season ticket holders aren't the target audience here (other than the pet scheme which is sponsored anyway).

The club may well be disappointed with the take up, we shall see, and I can see some negative reaction once loyalty points come up for away games but that has happened nearly every season for years.

But wanting to have more information on who your existing and potential "customers" are and having a way of contacting is hardly a new or radical idea.

Yes, but the scheme isn’t optimised to collect data or, I would argue, to generate income. If you wanted to create a scheme that had a broad membership you wouldn’t charge £35. I have a view that creating tiered ticket pricing around membership is a mistake anyway, but if you want to sign up the maximum number of people you’d make the scheme £10-£20 at most. At £35 I doubt it will get beyond a few thousand adults, the vast majority of whom are already on your database as ticket purchasers. You don’t need a premium membership scheme to collect data about people’s purchases. This leads me to conclude it’s about generating revenue and based on a misreading of the fanbase.

You did suggest the numbers might be attractive to a “big sponsor”. I think that’s highly implausible.

Airman Brown said:

Henry Irving said:

Airman Brown said:

Henry Irving said:

BowSelecta said:

Having spent such a long time spending the absolute minimum on following CAFC to avoid RD getting his hands on my cash, I’m delighted to support the club and throw them a little more money. 

“It’s money grabbing / a gimmick” - that’s the bloomin’ point! Every club needs to maximise revenue. At least now the revenue is being invested back into the club

True but the prices aren't extortionate and no one has to pay them to get access to tickets or anything else.

Just as important as the money IMHO is the data.

Those overseas or far away may not be on the club's database but this way they are members to whom services can be marketed.

And that big sponsor/partner may well want to know we have 1000s of members worldwide.

I think you (and the club) may be overestimating the number of adults who will join a membership scheme with these benefits at that price point. It’s unlikely to be a number that would be material to a “big” sponsor, in my opinion.

I didn't estimate any numbers.

I was pointing out one of what I think the reasons behind the scheme are.

Whether it will work or not, both from a financial and data point of view I don't know.  None of the options attract me due to living locally, having a ST again and having no pets or young children.

But I and the other adult season ticket holders aren't the target audience here (other than the pet scheme which is sponsored anyway).

The club may well be disappointed with the take up, we shall see, and I can see some negative reaction once loyalty points come up for away games but that has happened nearly every season for years.

But wanting to have more information on who your existing and potential "customers" are and having a way of contacting is hardly a new or radical idea.

Yes, but the scheme isn’t optimised to collect data or, I would argue, to generate income. If you wanted to create a scheme that had a broad membership you wouldn’t charge £35. I have a view that creating tiered ticket pricing around membership is a mistake anyway, but if you want to sign up the maximum number of people you’d make the scheme £10-£20 at most. At £35 I doubt it will get beyond a few thousand adults, the vast majority of whom are already on your database as ticket purchasers. You don’t need a premium membership scheme to collect data about people’s purchases. This leads me to conclude it’s about generating revenue and based on a misreading of the fanbase.

You did suggest the numbers might be attractive to a “big sponsor”. I think that’s highly implausible.

So you're saying the idea is OK, it's the pricing that is wrong?

I'm sure it is about revenue. £70K (based on your £35 v 2000 adults) isn't a huge amount in the scheme of things but it is £70k more than before and it has the added benefit of bringing in some additional customer data.  It's also an optional purchase. no one has to buy the membership as similar benefits are available elsewhere via a ST or Valley Gold.  The socks?  OK, you need to join to get them but they aren't essential.

We know from the official supporters group scheme, which was free, that they initially asked for access to membership lists before that was rejected by the groups themselves.  That suggests to me that they also do want a bigger and better customer database which, I guess, can then to used in marketing and in promoting the club to potential sponsors.

A big, or small, sponsor will be interested in the reach of their sponsorship.  That will largely come through TV and other media but fanbase will also be a factor as will, and possibly more significantly, be the kudos of being linked to the Community Trust, the Womens team, etc etc

Henry Irving said:

Airman Brown said:

Henry Irving said:

Airman Brown said:

Henry Irving said:

BowSelecta said:

Having spent such a long time spending the absolute minimum on following CAFC to avoid RD getting his hands on my cash, I’m delighted to support the club and throw them a little more money. 

“It’s money grabbing / a gimmick” - that’s the bloomin’ point! Every club needs to maximise revenue. At least now the revenue is being invested back into the club

True but the prices aren't extortionate and no one has to pay them to get access to tickets or anything else.

Just as important as the money IMHO is the data.

Those overseas or far away may not be on the club's database but this way they are members to whom services can be marketed.

And that big sponsor/partner may well want to know we have 1000s of members worldwide.

I think you (and the club) may be overestimating the number of adults who will join a membership scheme with these benefits at that price point. It’s unlikely to be a number that would be material to a “big” sponsor, in my opinion.

I didn't estimate any numbers.

I was pointing out one of what I think the reasons behind the scheme are.

Whether it will work or not, both from a financial and data point of view I don't know.  None of the options attract me due to living locally, having a ST again and having no pets or young children.

But I and the other adult season ticket holders aren't the target audience here (other than the pet scheme which is sponsored anyway).

The club may well be disappointed with the take up, we shall see, and I can see some negative reaction once loyalty points come up for away games but that has happened nearly every season for years.

But wanting to have more information on who your existing and potential "customers" are and having a way of contacting is hardly a new or radical idea.

Yes, but the scheme isn’t optimised to collect data or, I would argue, to generate income. If you wanted to create a scheme that had a broad membership you wouldn’t charge £35. I have a view that creating tiered ticket pricing around membership is a mistake anyway, but if you want to sign up the maximum number of people you’d make the scheme £10-£20 at most. At £35 I doubt it will get beyond a few thousand adults, the vast majority of whom are already on your database as ticket purchasers. You don’t need a premium membership scheme to collect data about people’s purchases. This leads me to conclude it’s about generating revenue and based on a misreading of the fanbase.

You did suggest the numbers might be attractive to a “big sponsor”. I think that’s highly implausible.

So you're saying the idea is OK, it's the pricing that is wrong?

I'm sure it is about revenue. £70K (based on your £35 v 2000 adults) isn't a huge amount in the scheme of things but it is £70k more than before and it has the added benefit of bringing in some additional customer data.  It's also an optional purchase. no one has to buy the membership as similar benefits are available elsewhere via a ST or Valley Gold.  The socks?  OK, you need to join to get them but they aren't essential.

We know from the official supporters group scheme, which was free, that they initially asked for access to membership lists before that was rejected by the groups themselves.  That suggests to me that they also do want a bigger and better customer database which, I guess, can then to used in marketing and in promoting the club to potential sponsors.

A big, or small, sponsor will be interested in the reach of their sponsorship.  That will largely come through TV and other media but fanbase will also be a factor as will, and possibly more significantly, be the kudos of being linked to the Community Trust, the Womens team, etc etc

It’s not £70k though, is it? The cost includes VAT so taking your figure of 2,000 that’s £58k net. Then there is the cost of sale and administration of the scheme, which isn’t zero. 

Does anyone know who the main individual driver of this membership scheme is at the club? That's the bit I find more interesting to be honest. It looks fun though a bit for everyone.

Henry Irving said:

Airman Brown said:

Henry Irving said:

Airman Brown said:

Henry Irving said:

Airman Brown said:

Henry Irving said:

BowSelecta said:

Having spent such a long time spending the absolute minimum on following CAFC to avoid RD getting his hands on my cash, I’m delighted to support the club and throw them a little more money. 

“It’s money grabbing / a gimmick” - that’s the bloomin’ point! Every club needs to maximise revenue. At least now the revenue is being invested back into the club

True but the prices aren't extortionate and no one has to pay them to get access to tickets or anything else.

Just as important as the money IMHO is the data.

Those overseas or far away may not be on the club's database but this way they are members to whom services can be marketed.

And that big sponsor/partner may well want to know we have 1000s of members worldwide.

I think you (and the club) may be overestimating the number of adults who will join a membership scheme with these benefits at that price point. It’s unlikely to be a number that would be material to a “big” sponsor, in my opinion.

I didn't estimate any numbers.

I was pointing out one of what I think the reasons behind the scheme are.

Whether it will work or not, both from a financial and data point of view I don't know.  None of the options attract me due to living locally, having a ST again and having no pets or young children.

But I and the other adult season ticket holders aren't the target audience here (other than the pet scheme which is sponsored anyway).

The club may well be disappointed with the take up, we shall see, and I can see some negative reaction once loyalty points come up for away games but that has happened nearly every season for years.

But wanting to have more information on who your existing and potential "customers" are and having a way of contacting is hardly a new or radical idea.

Yes, but the scheme isn’t optimised to collect data or, I would argue, to generate income. If you wanted to create a scheme that had a broad membership you wouldn’t charge £35. I have a view that creating tiered ticket pricing around membership is a mistake anyway, but if you want to sign up the maximum number of people you’d make the scheme £10-£20 at most. At £35 I doubt it will get beyond a few thousand adults, the vast majority of whom are already on your database as ticket purchasers. You don’t need a premium membership scheme to collect data about people’s purchases. This leads me to conclude it’s about generating revenue and based on a misreading of the fanbase.

You did suggest the numbers might be attractive to a “big sponsor”. I think that’s highly implausible.

So you're saying the idea is OK, it's the pricing that is wrong?

I'm sure it is about revenue. £70K (based on your £35 v 2000 adults) isn't a huge amount in the scheme of things but it is £70k more than before and it has the added benefit of bringing in some additional customer data.  It's also an optional purchase. no one has to buy the membership as similar benefits are available elsewhere via a ST or Valley Gold.  The socks?  OK, you need to join to get them but they aren't essential.

We know from the official supporters group scheme, which was free, that they initially asked for access to membership lists before that was rejected by the groups themselves.  That suggests to me that they also do want a bigger and better customer database which, I guess, can then to used in marketing and in promoting the club to potential sponsors.

A big, or small, sponsor will be interested in the reach of their sponsorship.  That will largely come through TV and other media but fanbase will also be a factor as will, and possibly more significantly, be the kudos of being linked to the Community Trust, the Womens team, etc etc

It’s not £70k though, is it? The cost includes VAT so taking your figure of 2,000 that’s £58k net. Then there is the cost of sale and administration of the scheme, which isn’t zero. 

If we treat the £2 off tickets as a real deduction then you have to deduct that from the gross revenue - so assume your 2,000 people attend an average of 10 games at a discounted price that’s potentially  another £40k (gross) to offset. Not sure what you’re left with that couldn’t be achieved a lot easier.

That’s before we get into the risk of cannibalising other revenue streams like Valley Gold and season tickets by introducing disincentives and confusion.

For example, why does someone paying £120 a year for a membership not get a match ticket discount when someone paying £35 does?

Maybe the numbers will be bigger but the data argument you made doesn’t stack up at all - the club already knows who most of these people are and what they buy. If you want to argue it’s about loyalty and “belonging” then fine. I think AFKA is closer to the truth when he says it’s no big deal. However you’re trying to argue that it’s something it’s not.

I would imagine the club would be delighted in 2000 people bought an average of 10 match tickets each.  That's 20,000 tickets or the equivalent of an extra home game.  It's likely to be a lot less as it's aimed at those who aren't season ticket holders IMHO, even though they can also apply.

But you're right, my figures were gross, not net, but that suggests to me that data and customer count is a part of this. 

It maybe that the scheme will flop or at least the adult part of it but that can be reviewed by some sort of business development group.  We could call Objective 40,000 or something like that.  I know I won't be on it though whatever it is called.

Yes, I agree that there is a danger of cannibalising Valley Gold income and existing walk up support income hence my comment previously about VG and the issue with loyalty points but without knowing what the club's target income and membership numbers are that is hard to judge.

It’s not likely to be extra though, is it? If £2 discounts on £20/£25/£30 tickets drove sales we’d have used them in the past, with or without a membership scheme. If they make a difference at all it is very marginal, certainly not going to be a revenue driver.

Trying to sign up for International Membership as live in USA and trying to register a new account as I moved recently and had to change email adresses and can't get past the address information...don't know if anyone else having issues 

ct_addick said:

Don't know who the webmaster is but its poorly designed obviously they don't want folks buying international memberships

I had to change my address from my old UK one to my new one in Ireland.
It didn’t like Ireland no matter how many times I put it in.
I left it out in the end, just stuck with Co Cork & my eircode which thankfully it accepted.
I agree, not a great site tbh.

Seen a few snidey comments on twitter and people on here over thinking it but I think it’s a great idea and a bit of harmless fun. Well done to whoever’s idea it was.

stop_shouting said:

Seen a few snidey comments on twitter and people on here over thinking it but I think it’s a great idea and a bit of harmless fun. Well done to whoever’s idea it was.

Completely agree.
For me it’s a way to feel connected to my club as realistically I can’t buy a season ticket I won’t use (traveling from Cork isn’t as easy as it used to be)
They now have my new details & I can hopefully take advantage of any offers etc

I really can’t see why people are knocking it 🤷‍♀️

Anything that makes a bit of extra revenue is a win win. Not a fan of the pets idea but if people want to spend a tenner on it, then it’s their choice and money.

As a season ticket holder this has no benefit to myself, this membership scheme and in my opinion, Valley Gold is your friend if you are a regular on away trips. 

A big push by the club on that would be good to see in the coming weeks. 

There is a bit of shonkiness in the personal details forms, that's for sure.

I have tried altering it numerous times, but it still puts bits of my old addresses in my new one; thankfully most stuff seems to end up in the right place!

So is the old free membership scheme now defunct? Still have 4 red cards for family and have used them to purchase home and away tickets. Been useful as I have an adult son registered with a learning disability so get a free carers ticket. Not seen any mention of the old scheme and whether details still held.

Cafc43v3r said:

My wife's childhood cat lived to 23.

This is the important stuff.  Take your discussions of the membership schemes to another thread.