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How much is TS paying RD to rent The Valley and SL?

HastingsRed
HastingsRed Posts: 1,600
in General Charlton
Anyone know? A friend asked me yesterday and I hadn't got a clue.

Comments

  • eastterrace6168
    eastterrace6168 Posts: 22,694
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
  • HastingsRed
    HastingsRed Posts: 1,600
    eastterrace6168 said:
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
    Could get a half decent player for that.
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,344
    HastingsRed said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
    Could get a half decent player for that.
    Thankfully, we're not in any desperate need for half-decent players
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,121
    eastterrace6168 said:
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
    A hunch only, we'll be in a new ground inside ten years.
  • HastingsRed
    HastingsRed Posts: 1,600
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
    A hunch only, we'll be in a new ground inside ten years.
    Possibly if Roland sells to developers....hope not though.
  • Crusty54
    Crusty54 Posts: 3,235
    edited August 2021
    HastingsRed said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
    A hunch only, we'll be in a new ground inside ten years.
    Possibly if Roland sells to developers....hope not though.
    The ground is still a community asset to prevent this.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,255
    Crusty54 said:
    HastingsRed said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
    A hunch only, we'll be in a new ground inside ten years.
    Possibly if Roland sells to developers....hope not though.
    The ground is still a community asset to prevent this.
    That doesn't stop development.

    That it will be almost impossible to get planning permission almost certainly will.

    Plus he's renting the ground out to a tenant on a long term deal.

  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    Henry Irving said:
    Crusty54 said:
    HastingsRed said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
    A hunch only, we'll be in a new ground inside ten years.
    Possibly if Roland sells to developers....hope not though.
    The ground is still a community asset to prevent this.
    That doesn't stop development.

    That it will be almost impossible to get planning permission almost certainly will.

    Plus he's renting the ground out to a tenant on a long term deal.

    I would not be at all shocked if the tenant (TS) and the landlord (RD) tried to do something with the ground as a joint venture. Hope I am wrong but as I say I would not be shocked.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,255
    I'd be shocked, very shocked.
  • eastterrace6168
    eastterrace6168 Posts: 22,694
    edited August 2021
    Let's face it Thomas is not intending to rent infinitum at extortionate rent from old Roly is he, so would expect movement to buy lock stock within the next couple of years, just need to try and get a sensible cost agreed with Roly, and also some financial back up to achieve this.

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  • Six-a-bag-of-nuts
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts Posts: 8,128
    eastterrace6168 said:
    Let's face it Thomas is not intending to rent infinitum at extortionate rent from old Roly is he, so would expect movement to buy lock stock within the next couple of years, just need to try and get a sensible cost agreed with Roly, and also some financial back up to achieve this.
    I can't see Tommy splashing out millions to buy the Valley, except maybe if we get to the PL.
    So don't hold your breath.
    Just my humble opinion
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,814
    The same people whining about the £500K would be whining if he had spent the £50m or whatever number RD pulls out of the air. 

    Either wait for the Premier League or RD death, the price will be affordable then
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,200
    No way am I defending Roland, but £500k a year (does that include the training ground?) doesn't sound too bad to me. It's a sizeable asset isn't it? So I think TS got a fairly decent deal.

    For comparison, and it's a very similar size, it is said that Birmingham City are paying £1.25mn a year for their ground.
  • Mendonca In Asdas
    Mendonca In Asdas Posts: 22,656
    cafcfan said:
    No way am I defending Roland, but £500k a year (does that include the training ground?) doesn't sound too bad to me. It's a sizeable asset isn't it? So I think TS got a fairly decent deal.

    For comparison, and it's a very similar size, it is said that Birmingham City are paying £1.25mn a year for their ground.


    Sshh , don't give Roland ideas!
  • HastingsRed
    HastingsRed Posts: 1,600
    Rothko said:
    The same people whining about the £500K would be whining if he had spent the £50m or whatever number RD pulls out of the air. 

    Either wait for the Premier League or RD death, the price will be affordable then
    I'd be happy for him to spend £50m if it meant getting Roland out of our club.
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,369
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
    A hunch only, we'll be in a new ground inside ten years.
    The small but perfect new Wimbledon ground cost a reported £32 Million, I don't know if that included buying the land or if the quoted sum is the total cost, land included.

     I would imagine that to build a new stadium for CAFC, supposing ambitions for the Premier League would be somewhere around an absolute minimum of £100 Million. What did the Emirates or the New Tottenham Stadium cost ?
    I  can well see Sandy and Duchatelet, hard headed businessmen that they are, coming to a deal to carve up a nice profit from selling Sparrow Lane and the Valley, but would they then be prepared to finance the land purchase and build for a New Valley ? and where would it be constructed ? Margate ? Ashford ?, London land is very expensive and it's not getting any cheaper. I can also see planning permission being granted  in the not too distant future, for housing as a 'social need' for an ever expanding population.

    I'd love to see us rehoused in a spanking new glass and steel wonder with padded seats and waitress service for the half time Bovril and Pukka pie, but unless we are taken over not by a mere multi millionaire but by a multi billionaire, I just can't see it happening
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,814
    HastingsRed said:
    Rothko said:
    The same people whining about the £500K would be whining if he had spent the £50m or whatever number RD pulls out of the air. 

    Either wait for the Premier League or RD death, the price will be affordable then
    I'd be happy for him to spend £50m if it meant getting Roland out of our club.
    I'm sure you are happy with spending someone else's money, but isn't a huge problem that RD will change a price even as the contract is about to be signed. Ask the Aussies for example 
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,286
    cafcfan said:
    No way am I defending Roland, but £500k a year (does that include the training ground?) doesn't sound too bad to me. It's a sizeable asset isn't it? So I think TS got a fairly decent deal.

    For comparison, and it's a very similar size, it is said that Birmingham City are paying £1.25mn a year for their ground.

    If RD really thinks it is worth £50M then he is getting a 1% return on his value.
  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    Let's face it Thomas is not intending to rent infinitum at extortionate rent from old Roly is he, so would expect movement to buy lock stock within the next couple of years, just need to try and get a sensible cost agreed with Roly, and also some financial back up to achieve this.
    I can't see Tommy splashing out millions to buy the Valley, except maybe if we get to the PL.
    So don't hold your breath.
    Just my humble opinion
    My opinion too.
  • eastterrace6168
    eastterrace6168 Posts: 22,694
    edited August 2021
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    Let's face it Thomas is not intending to rent infinitum at extortionate rent from old Roly is he, so would expect movement to buy lock stock within the next couple of years, just need to try and get a sensible cost agreed with Roly, and also some financial back up to achieve this.
    I can't see Tommy splashing out millions to buy the Valley, except maybe if we get to the PL.
    So don't hold your breath.
    Just my humble opinion
    With due respect, I wasn't suggesting that Thomas was about to splash out the stupid self centered valuation from Roly, but negotiate a realistic price, I know I can hear you all say, you can't negotiate with that prick, but at some point he will want to rid himself of this situation, and surely Thomas wont just want to pay rent forever.
     It may well be IF prem is reached, but we need The Valley and Sparrows to be reunited with The Club, maybe with some financial backing, but it is not a sustainable and realistic position to be in with that git holding the trap door in his hands with a noose round our neck.

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  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    eastterrace6168 said:
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    Let's face it Thomas is not intending to rent infinitum at extortionate rent from old Roly is he, so would expect movement to buy lock stock within the next couple of years, just need to try and get a sensible cost agreed with Roly, and also some financial back up to achieve this.
    I can't see Tommy splashing out millions to buy the Valley, except maybe if we get to the PL.
    So don't hold your breath.
    Just my humble opinion
    With due respect, I wasn't suggesting that Thomas was about to splash out the stupid self centered valuation from Roly, but negotiate a realistic price, I know I can hear you all say, you can't negotiate with that prick, but at some point he will want to rid himself of this situation, and surely Thomas wont just want to pay rent forever.
     It may well be IF prem is reached, but we need The Valley and Sparrows to be reunited with The Club, maybe with some financial backing, but it is not a sustainable and realistic position to be in with that git holding the trap door in his hands with a noose round our neck.
    Why would he want to rid himself of it now he is renting it out. If I owned a large chuck of real estate in a prime position in London and was being paid half a million pounds on an annual basis I would be sitting back with a big grin on my face not thinking about getting rid of it.  
  • Mendonca In Asdas
    Mendonca In Asdas Posts: 22,656
    edited August 2021
    I did wonder whether the rent we paid depended on what division we were in / whether it got ratcheted upwards depending on what division we were on , and how often was it reviewed?
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,286
    eaststandmike said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    Let's face it Thomas is not intending to rent infinitum at extortionate rent from old Roly is he, so would expect movement to buy lock stock within the next couple of years, just need to try and get a sensible cost agreed with Roly, and also some financial back up to achieve this.
    I can't see Tommy splashing out millions to buy the Valley, except maybe if we get to the PL.
    So don't hold your breath.
    Just my humble opinion
    With due respect, I wasn't suggesting that Thomas was about to splash out the stupid self centered valuation from Roly, but negotiate a realistic price, I know I can hear you all say, you can't negotiate with that prick, but at some point he will want to rid himself of this situation, and surely Thomas wont just want to pay rent forever.
     It may well be IF prem is reached, but we need The Valley and Sparrows to be reunited with The Club, maybe with some financial backing, but it is not a sustainable and realistic position to be in with that git holding the trap door in his hands with a noose round our neck.
    Why would he want to rid himself of it now he is renting it out. If I owned a large chuck of real estate in a prime position in London and was being paid half a million pounds on an annual basis I would be sitting back with a big grin on my face not thinking about getting rid of it.  

    But you could own a whole chunk of RE in London and get 3-4% pa yield/return on your money very easily indeed, so unless he genuinely thinks it is worth keeping as a poorly yielding investment for 15 years whilst he waits for planning permission and the lease to expire he would be better to sell and invest into better returning assets.

    He holds because he holds a grudge.  Don't forget that this is the man whom started a socialist political party who's foundation was fair pay for all then paid less than the fair wage (or was it less than minimum wage?)  to Charlton employees.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,915
    No politician would allow a major football ground to be redeveloped unless its club was safe in a new home, it would be electoral suicide, whatever party made the decision

    Sparrows Lane is even less likely to be redeveloped, as it's Metropolitan Open Land. Realistically if we didn't buy it, it could only be sold to someone else for similar activities, such as another training ground or sporting facility.

    Lincsaddick said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
    A hunch only, we'll be in a new ground inside ten years.
    The small but perfect new Wimbledon ground cost a reported £32 Million, I don't know if that included buying the land or if the quoted sum is the total cost, land included.

     I would imagine that to build a new stadium for CAFC, supposing ambitions for the Premier League would be somewhere around an absolute minimum of £100 Million. What did the Emirates or the New Tottenham Stadium cost ?
    I  can well see Sandy and Duchatelet, hard headed businessmen that they are, coming to a deal to carve up a nice profit from selling Sparrow Lane and the Valley, but would they then be prepared to finance the land purchase and build for a New Valley ? and where would it be constructed ? Margate ? Ashford ?, London land is very expensive and it's not getting any cheaper. I can also see planning permission being granted  in the not too distant future, for housing as a 'social need' for an ever expanding population.

    I'd love to see us rehoused in a spanking new glass and steel wonder with padded seats and waitress service for the half time Bovril and Pukka pie, but unless we are taken over not by a mere multi millionaire but by a multi billionaire, I just can't see it happening
    Agreed, building in London is a nightmare. Brentford were incredibly lucky to find the site for their new stadium, and even then it's a restricted site surrounded by railway lines, which has permanently restricted its size. Palace still haven't started their new stand, as they try to come to a deal with Sainsbury's and the with the owners of the houses affected. The new Wimbledon ground is surrounded by flats...
  • eastterrace6168
    eastterrace6168 Posts: 22,694
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    I did wonder whether the rent we paid depended on what division we were in / whether it got ratcheted upwards depending on what division we were on , and how often was it reviewed?
    That idea is bound to be rattling around the Dushites head and an incentive for Thomas, and hopefully some backers to nail him down asap and get our club and ground as one again.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,047
    Lincsaddick said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    eastterrace6168 said:
    500k a year I believe, whatever it is it is too much B)
    A hunch only, we'll be in a new ground inside ten years.
    The small but perfect new Wimbledon ground cost a reported £32 Million, I don't know if that included buying the land or if the quoted sum is the total cost, land included.

     I would imagine that to build a new stadium for CAFC, supposing ambitions for the Premier League would be somewhere around an absolute minimum of £100 Million. What did the Emirates or the New Tottenham Stadium cost ?
    I  can well see Sandy and Duchatelet, hard headed businessmen that they are, coming to a deal to carve up a nice profit from selling Sparrow Lane and the Valley, but would they then be prepared to finance the land purchase and build for a New Valley ? and where would it be constructed ? Margate ? Ashford ?, London land is very expensive and it's not getting any cheaper. I can also see planning permission being granted  in the not too distant future, for housing as a 'social need' for an ever expanding population.

    I'd love to see us rehoused in a spanking new glass and steel wonder with padded seats and waitress service for the half time Bovril and Pukka pie, but unless we are taken over not by a mere multi millionaire but by a multi billionaire, I just can't see it happening
    I don't know about Arsenal or Tottenham, but Brentford paid £71m for a 17K seater. Sadly, I think if push came to shove that would be more the scale we'd be looking at. Of course, by that time the prices would have gone up so that ten thousand reduction in capacity would likely cost exactly the £100m you're suggesting. Hopefully, that's just me being pessimistic though.
  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones Posts: 21,370
    Why dont we wait for the next Olympics and butter up the  government in power and get a banging deal on one of the venues, say the table tennis tent?

    One of the most worrying things in my whole Charlton supporting lifetime is the seperation of the football club from the ownership of The Valley, and we have had plenty to "mull over" over the years...

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