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Match (and post-match p13) Thread : Leyton Orient vs Charlton | Papa John's | Tuesday 9 Nov 2021

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  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,324
    clive said:
    JaShea99 said:
    So when’s the draw for the next round? After the games tonight?

    The draw for Round Two of the Papa John’s Trophy will take place live on Sky Sports Football on Saturday 13 November.

    Sky Bet League Two takes centre stage on Sky Sports at Saturday lunchtime as second-placed Port Vale face Bradford City in the 12pm kick-off, with the Papa John’s Trophy draw taking place at full-time. 

    https://www.efl.com/news/2021/november/papa-johns-trophy-draw-round-two/

    That'll send viewing figures through the roof for that game then 
  • SouthWest_Addicks
    SouthWest_Addicks Posts: 6,307
    ForeverAddickted said:
    clive said:
    JaShea99 said:
    So when’s the draw for the next round? After the games tonight?

    The draw for Round Two of the Papa John’s Trophy will take place live on Sky Sports Football on Saturday 13 November.

    Sky Bet League Two takes centre stage on Sky Sports at Saturday lunchtime as second-placed Port Vale face Bradford City in the 12pm kick-off, with the Papa John’s Trophy draw taking place at full-time. 

    https://www.efl.com/news/2021/november/papa-johns-trophy-draw-round-two/

    That'll send viewing figures through the roof for that game then 
    Just need to find a pub in Burton showing the big match. 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,857
    Thinking about it, why didn't Sean Clare play as one of the CBs, like he did on Saturday, instead of Souare?

    He's unlikely to start on Saturday, so hardly needed to be saved
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,001
    killerandflash said:
    Thinking about it, why didn't Sean Clare play as one of the CBs, like he did on Saturday, instead of Souare?

    He's unlikely to start on Saturday, so hardly needed to be saved
    Either to give Soare some more time (which backfired but that's hindsight for you) or possibly balance - Soare is left footed whereas Clare is right footed IIRC. 
  • msomerton
    msomerton Posts: 2,975
    What sums up last nights game is that on that showing not one of our players good enough for the first team.
  • ElliotCAFC
    ElliotCAFC Posts: 2,553
    msomerton said:
    What sums up last nights game is that on that showing not one of our players good enough for the first team.
    Not sure that’s fair. If last night was the first time you saw Deji then you might think he’s likely to be released in the summer. 

    Although, I don’t understand the point of Ben Dempsey. He’s about to turn 22 and he doesn’t look like he’s capable of playing in League Two.
  • SouthWest_Addicks
    SouthWest_Addicks Posts: 6,307
    msomerton said:
    What sums up last nights game is that on that showing not one of our players good enough for the first team.
    Had a very easy night but thought Harness did everything well. Unfair to give a proper assessment because was so quiet but he would definitely be a positive from last night.
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,380
    How senior was Orient's team ? Were they also fielding youngsters? Prats wasn't there, eh?
  • JohnnyH2
    JohnnyH2 Posts: 5,344

    msomerton said:
    What sums up last nights game is that on that showing not one of our players good enough for the first team.
    Based on last night Harness, Burstow and Davison are good enough
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,857
    SouthWest_Addicks said:
    msomerton said:
    What sums up last nights game is that on that showing not one of our players good enough for the first team.
    Had a very easy night but thought Harness did everything well. Unfair to give a proper assessment because was so quiet but he would definitely be a positive from last night.
    Partially at fault for the goal, and also a misjudgement when he ran out to get the ball and was beaten to it by Smyth, who hit the post
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  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,324
    Wont be facing West Ham in the next round, they've been kicked out of the competition after fielding an ineligible player - Ipswich now Group winners (always knew they'd win the League) with Colchester through in West Ham's place.

    Just shocking, talk about disrespecting a National Treasure of a competition.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,857
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Wont be facing West Ham in the next round, they've been kicked out of the competition after fielding an ineligible player - Ipswich now Group winners (always knew they'd win the League) with Colchester through in West Ham's place.

    Just shocking, talk about disrespecting a National Treasure of a competition.
    Same old West Ham, always cheating  ;)

    Weren't they kicked out of the FA or League Cup a few years ago for fielding an ineligible player?
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,155
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Wont be facing West Ham in the next round, they've been kicked out of the competition after fielding an ineligible player - Ipswich now Group winners (always knew they'd win the League) with Colchester through in West Ham's place.

    Just shocking, talk about disrespecting a National Treasure of a competition.
    Ffs why couldn’t that have been us (West Ham not Ipswich)
  • Siv_in_Norfolk
    Siv_in_Norfolk Posts: 4,057
    So... which players were used to fulfill the criteria and avoid a fine? 4 need to have started the previous league game, or start the next league game, right? 

    I can only see Davison and Elewere starting the next league game...

    Am I missing something? 

    Are Soare and Morgan gonna start vs. Burton?  Doubt it
  • Siv_in_Norfolk
    Siv_in_Norfolk Posts: 4,057
    Copied this via Ben18 in preview:


    To avoid a "fine of up to £5000", we must name 4 qualifying players from the outfield 10 who fit the following criteria:

    - Started the last league game, or will start the next league game.
    - Is in the list of the top 10 starting appearance makers in the squad for 1st team games. 
    - Have made 40 or more starting appearances in first team fixtures (not necessarily for Charlton) 
    - Is on loan from a Premier League club or Cat 1 academy.


    -----

    I see now that Soare and Morgan counted as players with 40+

    Elewere and Davidson (or Burstow!) must then be starting vs Burton... right? 
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    Davison has probably started 40 games? 
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,024
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Wont be facing West Ham in the next round, they've been kicked out of the competition after fielding an ineligible player - Ipswich now Group winners (always knew they'd win the League) with Colchester through in West Ham's place.

    Just shocking, talk about disrespecting a National Treasure of a competition.
    So with Forest green winning last night (which eliminated Brighton) it means only 3 of the 16 academy sides made it out of the group stage.

    Villa, Chelsea, Arsenal.
  • Dave2l
    Dave2l Posts: 8,867
    edited November 2021
    Jackson's 100% record continues. (Forgot we drew our last game)

    We politely exit an unnecessary hell of a reminder that we are shit club featuring in the st Johnstone's paint pointless trophy of reserves. 
    Only thing it does is cause additional fatigue and potential injuries.

    Can now just solely focus on the league (and FA cup) 🙂
  • Richard J
    Richard J Posts: 8,033
    Who are our potential opponents? 

    I want Sutton United away. 
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,324
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Davison has probably started 40 games? 
    According to Wiki - 19 games for us... 20 games for Forest Green :D
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  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,024
    Richard J said:
    Who are our potential opponents? 

    I want Sutton United away. 
    Ipswich, Sutton, Villa U21, Forest Green, Exeter, Swindon, Cambridge.

    So we'll probably get Ipswich.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Siv_in_Norfolk said:
    Copied this via Ben18 in preview:


    To avoid a "fine of up to £5000", we must name 4 qualifying players from the outfield 10 who fit the following criteria:

    - Started the last league game, or will start the next league game.
    - Is in the list of the top 10 starting appearance makers in the squad for 1st team games. 
    - Have made 40 or more starting appearances in first team fixtures (not necessarily for Charlton) 
    - Is on loan from a Premier League club or Cat 1 academy.


    -----

    I see now that Soare and Morgan counted as players with 40+

    Elewere and Davidson (or Burstow!) must then be starting vs Burton... right? 
    How does that Cat 1 clause effect Sunderland?    All their players play for a club with a cat 1 academy. 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,857
    Siv_in_Norfolk said:
    Copied this via Ben18 in preview:


    To avoid a "fine of up to £5000", we must name 4 qualifying players from the outfield 10 who fit the following criteria:

    - Started the last league game, or will start the next league game.
    - Is in the list of the top 10 starting appearance makers in the squad for 1st team games. 
    - Have made 40 or more starting appearances in first team fixtures (not necessarily for Charlton) 
    - Is on loan from a Premier League club or Cat 1 academy.


    -----

    I see now that Soare and Morgan counted as players with 40+

    Elewere and Davidson (or Burstow!) must then be starting vs Burton... right? 
    Surely we would use the "international callup" excuse anyway if we wanted to fight this. 2 players (Gunter and Washington) that we would have played versus Orient but weren't allowed to.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Siv_in_Norfolk said:
    Copied this via Ben18 in preview:


    To avoid a "fine of up to £5000", we must name 4 qualifying players from the outfield 10 who fit the following criteria:

    - Started the last league game, or will start the next league game.
    - Is in the list of the top 10 starting appearance makers in the squad for 1st team games. 
    - Have made 40 or more starting appearances in first team fixtures (not necessarily for Charlton) 
    - Is on loan from a Premier League club or Cat 1 academy.


    -----

    I see now that Soare and Morgan counted as players with 40+

    Elewere and Davidson (or Burstow!) must then be starting vs Burton... right? 
    How does that Cat 1 clause effect Sunderland?    All their players play for a club with a cat 1 academy. 
    But they don't loan the players from themselves ;)
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    ForeverAddickted said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Davison has probably started 40 games? 
    According to Wiki - 19 games for us... 20 games for Forest Green :D
    Maybe/hopefully National League taken into account too so Woking games come into play. Either way, looks like we're going to be paying a fine and although easily said because it's not my money, upto £5k isn't going to bankrupt us. 
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,770
    edited November 2021
    Davison will start at the weekend, it's why he was pulled at half time. That covers three of the four required players. I'll guess that Deji Elerewe will be starting as the third centre back next to Pearce & Famewo and that will be four.

    From the Rotherham line-up: Washington and Gunter out, Davison and Elerewe in. Simples. :-)
  • Grapevine49
    Grapevine49 Posts: 997
    Some disappointing overreaction here.

    This is not a case of one or two young players stepping up to an established senior structure. It was an 11 thrown together to play another 11 thrown together. Yes it is in a professional environment but it was a classic reserve team encounter where the wheels can come off at any given point.

    Every reserve team coach will come out with the claim « I put out a team which should have been able to win » (who puts out a team to lose?) but comes with about 10 different caveats.

    Reserve team football is by definition disconnected and on any given day one dysfunctional team can beat another dysfunctional team where maybe just one or two players will shine. They didn’t.

    The sage judgements here about the career prospects of a series of young professionals based on, for many, one or two appearances are extreme. They are also, based on the industry statistics, somewhat meaningless. As one film trilogy would position it « May the odds ever be in your favour».

    The side selected was arguably a 3rd team being given the chance to show what they can do with one senior pro in the mix in a dead rubber game. In playing terms in large part they were in control for the first 45 minutes. They fell away badly in the 2nd half. The team lost to a monumental cock up between 2/3 players.

    I agree we should expected to have seen more from Souare, Elewere, Morgan, Dempsey, Davison and Clayden but Chin and Clayden have only converted to wing back in recent weeks, Souare was playing Centre Back, Bakrin, Chin, Burstow were all making their first senior starts.

    For young talents like Elewere, Morgan, Dempsey, Davison arguably on the first team fringes there is a real difference between operating within a senior structure with senior players and being « the main » players themselves.

    I have even seen some calls to just close the academy. If you don’t have the stomach for the learning curve then you may very well be supporting the wrong club.

    Thé entire club has only recently transitioned to 3-5-2.

    Overall after the departure of Schwarz we have 53 (with Hand now 54) professionals (nearly 5 teams) under contract and I am far from sure whether the club, let alone us, know how each fits into the new playing format. I have liberally switched names into certain positions to try to effectively fill a slot on 3rd, 4th and 5th teams.

    I suggest with a number of U18 emerging talents within the current scholars like Beadle,  Asiimwe, Bower, Adigun, Kanu, Leaburn, Reilly, Kedwell, Ladapo, Huke there is a real melting pot of development talent where the hope will be the cream will rise to the top.

    To do that everyone is going to be given a chance to progress.

    There are good people working across this infrastructure.

    I am not sure how accurate the following is but I believe these are the current professionals no pulling on our shirt.

    (Bold - Starting 11- Italics - Unavailable through injury, loan or international call up)


    Keepers

    1.    MacGillivray
    2.          Henderson
    3.               Maynard-Brewer
    4.                    Harness
    5.                         Harvey.

    RCB
       
    6.     Matthews
    7.         Clare
    8.               Barker
    9.                    French
    10.                         Agyemang          

    CB

    11.     Pearce
    12.          Elewere
    13.               Inniss
    14.                    Lavelle
    15.                         Ness

    LCB

    16.     Famewo
    17.          Gunter
    18.               Bakrin
    19.                    O’Connor
    20.                           ?

    RWB

    21.     Leko
    22.          Jaiyesimi
    23.               Blackett-Taylor
    24.                    Chin
    25.                         Powell

    RM

    26.     Gilbey
    27.          Forster-Caskey
    28.                Morgan
    29.                      Anderson
    30.                            Hand

    CM

    31.     Dobson
    32.          Arter
    33.               Watson
    34.                     Dempsey
    35.                           Appiah

    LM

    36.     Lee
    37.          Kirk
    38.                Henry
    39.                      Vennings
    40.                            Williams

    LWB

    41.     Purrington
    42.          Souare
    43.               Clayden
    44.                    Roddy
    45.                          Oguntayo

    SS

    46.     Washington
    47.          Burstow
    48.               Ghandour
    49.                     Santos
    50.                           Campbell            

    S

    51.      Stockley
    52.           Davison
    53.                Aoucheria
    54.                      Viggars
    55.                           Gavin


    As coaches and players you learn significantly more about certain players from their failures than their successes.

    We and they move on.





  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    Sorry Grapevine but who is overreacting? Very few people particularly disappointed. Only real criticism has been aimed at Morgan. I actually agree and said in isolation I think the criticism on his performance was a little harsh. But most of the criticism is because it wasn’t in isolation, it’s off a string of poor performances by Albie. 

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