Ipswich 7th December- No Streaming

shirty5 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

shirty5 said:

ct_addick said:

Nope. Paid for my season ticket and fully expect to see every game unless its shown here in USA and they can't show it. Love watching Scott, Curbs and the guests. Best thing the club has done in a long while.  

No offence but you live in North America and watch it regardless. I’m talking about the individuals who will pay a. Tenner  and sit indoors 

Why?  I can't make a 500 mile round trip on on a Tuesday night.  Its either £10 in the clubs sky rocket or nothing.  What do you, or anyone else gain if I can't legally watch it? 

Before Covid kicked in 18 months ago how else would you have watched a Charlton game then midweek. Was that facility available after we got relegated to League One.

Listened in back then for midweek games and as I did before would make one or two midweeks a season.

Ipswich fortunately don't charge what they use to do as far as i can see but for Rotherham fans going on a tuesday night will still have to fork out 27 quid to get into the tractor boys stadium. i don't know what we charge Ipswich fans though. 

shirty5 said:

Fortune 82nd Minute said:

What a sad, selfish opening post by someone whose views I normally respect. 

You can see from this board we now have hundreds of supporters who because of work, retirement, love or other reasons now live miles away from SE London. There's no way the vast majority of those people are going to go on a midweek evening. But I suspect many still want to watch the game and are happy to pay to do so.

Throw in many more people like myself who no longer want to go to midweek games as getting home well after midnight is no longer an attractive option and banning streaming is simply depriving people like me of watching a game I'm more than happy to pay to do.

In fact, I'll go further. People who think streaming can be stopped are complete Luddites - they remind me of printers in the 1980s who thought computers would never replace their type setting skills. It's not going away. Sure there is a debate to be had about its cost and the time it operates (the ban on Saturday 3 oclock fixtures is absurd given VPNs) but it is here to stay.

As others have said, if you want to go to the game you will. Watching live in a stadium with others cannot be beaten. But for those of us who can't get to games for one reason or another streaming is a very good alternative. 

This forum is about debates and opinions. Cause someone has a different opinion on an issue, it does not they are right or wrong.

However, to say I’m being sad and selfish is harsh when someone has a different view

OK. Fair point. Apologies for my opening sentence. 

But I'm still annoyed that you would even consider trying to stop a long standing fan like myself who just can't get to mid-week games anymore being able to stream the game and enjoy it. 

The debate would be a bit more calm, if we had some figures for the streaming viewership. AFAIK, we have nothing.

I'd be very surprised indeed if more than 500 UK based fans bought a stream for the last midweek home game, and a lot of them, as we've seen here, would not be able to easily attend because of where they live.

But of course like everyone else I'm just guessing.

My question is 
Should you be able to stream the ,Ipswich game for half the price it cost for a ticket to the game?

MrOneLung said:

clb74 said:

My question is 
Should you be able to stream the ,Ipswich game for half the price it cost for a ticket to the game?

Make it same price as a ticket 

Still think the EFL should do this and if so, just do away with the whole media blackout at 3pm. 

clb74 said:

My question is 
Should you be able to stream the ,Ipswich game for half the price it cost for a ticket to the game?

That is a fair question and it is the sort of question that should be being asked, not whether streaming should continue. 

ForeverAddickted said:

MrOneLung said:

clb74 said:

My question is 
Should you be able to stream the ,Ipswich game for half the price it cost for a ticket to the game?

Make it same price as a ticket 

Still think the EFL should do this and if so, just do away with the whole media blackout at 3pm. 

Again, the media blackout at 3pm is something else that should be being looked at. 

The technology is here. It is not going away. Its time for an honest debate on how you use it for the good of the clubs and fans who for one reason or another cannot attend games. Just saying ban it is such an unrealistic option. 

Can anyone genuinely come up with a situation where a fit and well supporter over 18 living within 10 - 15 miles of the Valley actually decides to sit at home watching the stream rather than going to the game.

How does it work? Do they invite their mates round with some beers and sit in the living room round the TV?  Maybe there's a few dozen like this but I just don't see it. 

Of course, the further you live from the valley, the more tempting it is to stay at home. But  many of these supporters could not attend anyway with or without a stream. The stream then becomes extra revenue.

I believe this debate is really important in the longer term. Smaller clubs will only  survive by making sure their games are easily available to watch on TV in the same way that anyone can follow the big clubs' games on TV.

Kid's will never become 'fanatical ' about a club like Charlton if they can't even see half the games while they can watch the complete Liverpool 'season box set' live via Sky etc. 

In other words, the fact that I can now watch ALL Charlton's matches on TV means that I am probably MORE likely to attend matches (home and away).

Slightly counter-intuitive, I know,  but I believe that Thomas and hopefully other owners are coming to see it my way.   

Just to be clear I neither attend games or stream them. I am out and about running after the kids at weekends. I follow us via this site and the match thread. I think the stream price should be same as ticket in say North Lower - would encourage people to go rather than just stream from a price point view. 

stevexreeve said:

Can anyone genuinely come up with a situation where a fit and well supporter over 18 living within 10 - 15 miles of the Valley actually decides to sit at home watching the stream rather than going to the game.

How does it work? Do they invite their mates round with some beers and sit in the living room round the TV?  Maybe there's a few dozen like this but I just don't see it. 

Of course, the further you live from the valley, the more tempting it is to stay at home. But  many of these supporters could not attend anyway with or without a stream. The stream then becomes extra revenue.

I believe this debate is really important in the longer term. Smaller clubs will only  survive by making sure their games are easily available to watch on TV in the same way that anyone can follow the big clubs' games on TV.

Kid's will never become 'fanatical ' about a club like Charlton if they can't even see half the games while they can watch the complete Liverpool 'season box set' live via Sky etc. 

In other words, the fact that I can now watch ALL Charlton's matches on TV means that I am probably MORE likely to attend matches (home and away).

Slightly counter-intuitive, I know,  but I believe that Thomas and hopefully other owners are coming to see it my way.   

In answer to your first question, don’t underestimate the effect of cold weather in mid-winter, especially now we have so many midweek games in the coldest months. 

Cafc43v3r said:

Airman Brown said:

stevexreeve said:

Can anyone genuinely come up with a situation where a fit and well supporter over 18 living within 10 - 15 miles of the Valley actually decides to sit at home watching the stream rather than going to the game.

How does it work? Do they invite their mates round with some beers and sit in the living room round the TV?  Maybe there's a few dozen like this but I just don't see it. 

Of course, the further you live from the valley, the more tempting it is to stay at home. But  many of these supporters could not attend anyway with or without a stream. The stream then becomes extra revenue.

I believe this debate is really important in the longer term. Smaller clubs will only  survive by making sure their games are easily available to watch on TV in the same way that anyone can follow the big clubs' games on TV.

Kid's will never become 'fanatical ' about a club like Charlton if they can't even see half the games while they can watch the complete Liverpool 'season box set' live via Sky etc. 

In other words, the fact that I can now watch ALL Charlton's matches on TV means that I am probably MORE likely to attend matches (home and away).

Slightly counter-intuitive, I know,  but I believe that Thomas and hopefully other owners are coming to see it my way.   

In answer to your first question, don’t underestimate the effect of cold weather in mid-winter, especially now we have so many midweek games in the coldest months. 

We are not going backwards, we have to adapt. It makes zero sense to force people to travel to Crewe in January if they want to see the game, but how do we protect Crewe’s income?

I think if you looked at Charlton’s midweek gates and the streaming revenue you’d find there is a problem already (Accrington was a tiny crowd for a reason, but Rotherham, which was under a thousand more home fans?). However, it’s not just caused by streaming.

All I’d say is that a proper piece of work needs doing around this, not just a blanket lifting of the Saturday watershed because it suits fans on the day. And while broadcast TV no doubt builds support for elite clubs, I don’t see streaming doing the same for Charlton outside Charlton households.

Can clubs still choose not to play on Saturday at 3pm?  I know Southend and Tranmere tried it a long time ago.

Not that it's relevant really. 

And Torquay, for years. I think they can by agreement with the opposition, but it doesn’t work.

The question is 
Would you rather try and get more fans in the ground or make the games more accessible through legal streams in the future?
If we happen to legally stream in the future I would probably only attend half the home games

Airman Brown said:

stevexreeve said:

Can anyone genuinely come up with a situation where a fit and well supporter over 18 living within 10 - 15 miles of the Valley actually decides to sit at home watching the stream rather than going to the game.

How does it work? Do they invite their mates round with some beers and sit in the living room round the TV?  Maybe there's a few dozen like this but I just don't see it. 

Of course, the further you live from the valley, the more tempting it is to stay at home. But  many of these supporters could not attend anyway with or without a stream. The stream then becomes extra revenue.

I believe this debate is really important in the longer term. Smaller clubs will only  survive by making sure their games are easily available to watch on TV in the same way that anyone can follow the big clubs' games on TV.

Kid's will never become 'fanatical ' about a club like Charlton if they can't even see half the games while they can watch the complete Liverpool 'season box set' live via Sky etc. 

In other words, the fact that I can now watch ALL Charlton's matches on TV means that I am probably MORE likely to attend matches (home and away).

Slightly counter-intuitive, I know,  but I believe that Thomas and hopefully other owners are coming to see it my way.   

In answer to your first question, don’t underestimate the effect of cold weather in mid-winter, especially now we have so many midweek games in the coldest months. 

We are not going backwards, we have to adapt. It makes zero sense to force people to travel to Crewe in January if they want to see the game, but how do we protect Crewe’s income?

I think if you looked at Charlton’s midweek gates and the streaming revenue you’d find there is a problem already (Accrington was a tiny crowd for a reason, but Rotherham, which was under a thousand more home fans?). However, it’s not just caused by streaming.

All I’d say is that a proper piece of work needs doing around this, not just a blanket lifting of the Saturday watershed because it suits fans on the day. And while broadcast TV no doubt builds support for elite clubs, I don’t see streaming doing the same for Charlton outside Charlton households.

People don't go to see Charlton at the Valley on Tuesday nights because they have better things to do. Not sure that watching a stream of Charlton on TV is one of them!

For many the possible options (in order of preference) on a cold Tuesday night are 

a Stay in a warm pub with your mates after work - maybe go for a pizza.

b Go and see a film or a gig at the O2 or somewhere - maybe go for a pizza.

c Head down to the Valley to see Charlton lose. 

d Head home and sit own your own in the kitchen watching Charlton lose on your computer. 


Option c obviously becomes a lot more attractive when Charlton are playing well and the weather is fine but I think the existence of streaming is irrelevant to that  decision.

All things considered I would rather watch a match from my seat in the top drawer of the Cupboard End than on a stream.

The TV cameras will (normally) follow the ball around the pitch whereas I'm free to watch the off-the-ball movements of players which is why I've always stood up for the likes of Leko (first spell) and Washy because I can see what they do away from the ball and how their positioning, runs, and movement help their team-mates without registering an official assist.

As good as Charlton TV is (and it's a bloody marvellous service) they don't give you the choice of camera angles that Sky used to on the red button back in the day where you could watch the entire match from behind the goal!

I've done my best to get to all the Saturday home matches this season (although let down by a long-booked holiday and grandson no 2's birthday) my enthusiasm for Tuesday evenings is waning. I used to leave work at 2pm to give me plenty of time to drive down and get parked and then wouldn't get home until after 1am.

My experience of midweek matches over the years, including Premier League fixtures, is that they aren't as well attended as Saturdays, regardless of what the official attendance is. I'm sure someone can do some number-crunching with physical attendance vs tickets issued but I wouldn't be surprised if it's normally in the region of 3-4 thousand lower so I'm not alone in my midweek wavering.

However, this season my parents haven't attended any matches (despite having season tickets) as Mum is seriously ill so my usual "added incentive" of going to the midweek matches i.e. seeing Mum and Dad, isn't there.

Grandson no 2 has a ST with me but getting home in the wee small hours of the morning isn't really an option when he has school the next day.

I've always subscribed to Charlton TV in its various incarnations so that I could listen to the commentaries of matches I didn't attend; if it wasn't for the video streaming I'd just listen to the commentary instead.

As far as I'm concerned the addition of match streaming is allowing more people to feel involved with their club, people who otherwise wouldn't be able to watch matches. This is leading to additional revenue for the club, money they wouldn't have previously had.

The trick for clubs now - all Football League clubs, not just us - is to re-balance their business operating model to embrace the streaming and not just focus on physical attendance. It may take a couple of years for clubs to make the adjustment but when they do I can see the 3pm Saturday broadcast ban lifted for streaming (although the TV embargo to remain).

There will need to be League-wide agreement on a price for the stream so that you don't have fans of one club purchasing a stream from the oppo because it's cheaper. Pricing needs to be at a sensible level to take into account all fans.

It's all very well saying "make the cost of a streaming pass the same as a full-price ticket" but that price will differ according to age or if you're a student. Why should an oldie have to pay more to watch on a stream compared to being there in person? That would sound like a bit of discrimination. £10-£15 seems like a suitable price to me.

Apologies for the slightly rambling, dis-jointed, and lengthy nature of this post (nowhere near Grapevine's quality though), I've been jotting down various thoughts and some of it is a "greatest hits" re-hash from a number of posts over the last couple of years!

But stopping streaming won’t make any difference it just penalises those that can’t go anyway