We were checked at Gatwick that we had the right documentation etc to go to Spain before we could board to flight and the corresponding checks in Spain, except they did re-check our QR code in Spain on arrival (as we need to be vaccinated with the documentation we had) but then again we didn't the equivalent when returning to the UK (as didn't need to be vaccinated) but couldn't have got in the flight anyway if we hadn't.
Not sure how many random tests are actually being carried as only know of 3 people who have been checked.
I agree, adherence by the Spanish (not so the Brits) was much better in Spain and wish it was the same here. Apparently covid is completely over on London transport
Spent nearly 2 months in Spain recently and only once did I see someone in a shop without a mask (a Brit). Getting on a DLR train at City Airport was a bit of a shock as maybe only 30% of people were wearing a mask, same on South Eastern.
Just checked the latest Reuters figures on infections: Spain 33 per 100k UK 360 per 100k
Now, there are obviously a lot of different factors at play (climate, population density etc) but maybe mask wearing is at least helping?
I find it mildly amusing for some reason that when we get something wrong in this country, how the default response is to find somebody else who has got it wrong.
It doesn't make poor policy any less poor but shows that the UK isn't the only country that hasn't got everything right. It is understandable in the unprecedented circumstances.
Every country has different dynamics, demographics etc but none has got it 100% right (and citing different EU countries for different aspects doesn't count!)
No country has got it 100% right. So is that a get out of jail free card to get things badly wrong? And a reason why these things that have been got wrong can't be pointed out/commented on. I mean, Adkins is shite but we shouldn't criticise because so was Fraye!
I agree no one has got it completely right and most countries have got some bits right but not others. I think we need to be reasonable and realistic when we criticise though and try to leave personal circs and politics out of it - most policy takes months. If not years and the policy makers (who aren't the politicians) are having to make completely new policies for an unknown situation with ridiculously short timescales and deadlines in a constantly changing situation.
Having been in IT systems way back and routine and one-off crisis policy more recently, quite frankly I'm amazed at how much has been achieved by so many (without hindsight).
I think those making excuses for mistakes are being political. It is just as easy to identify their political sympathies as it is those pointing out the mistakes.
No, not necessarily, it depends on their knowledge and whether they making excuses or just exlaining how it is.
I suggest we split threads like this into 2; one being for help and advice and the other for people to air their grievances/vent aa to why things aren't set up perfectly ommediately and to suit their individual.circumstances and someone else can explain why/why nit
I find it mildly amusing for some reason that when we get something wrong in this country, how the default response is to find somebody else who has got it wrong.
It doesn't make poor policy any less poor but shows that the UK isn't the only country that hasn't got everything right. It is understandable in the unprecedented circumstances.
Every country has different dynamics, demographics etc but none has got it 100% right (and citing different EU countries for different aspects doesn't count!)
No country has got it 100% right. So is that a get out of jail free card to get things badly wrong? And a reason why these things that have been got wrong can't be pointed out/commented on. I mean, Adkins is shite but we shouldn't criticise because so was Fraye!
I agree no one has got it completely right and most countries have got some bits right but not others. I think we need to be reasonable and realistic when we criticise though and try to leave personal circs and politics out of it - most policy takes months. If not years and the policy makers (who aren't the politicians) are having to make completely new policies for an unknown situation with ridiculously short timescales and deadlines in a constantly changing situation.
Having been in IT systems way back and routine and one-off crisis policy more recently, quite frankly I'm amazed at how much has been achieved by so many (without hindsight).
I think those making excuses for mistakes are being political. It is just as easy to identify their political sympathies as it is those pointing out the mistakes.
No, Muttley.
It's not about politics. But it is about the way the Government has handled entry into the UK for fully vaccinated UK nationals. We compare it to other countries in Europe, their much stricter pandemic precautions and protections - and consequently far lower percentages of Covid infection.
And we compare it to the virtually complete absence of any requirement for public precaution and protection in the UK. Guess which country has the far greater number of infection?
With this in mind, it is about the Government's handling of this issue, and the expensive and pointless hoops we have to jump through to be able to return home.
I don't agree with how it is being handle but don't think it is dishonest or fraudulent. Roll on 4 October
If I understand it correctly, Oct 4 is when they stop the need for test before you travel back to UK, whereas the Day 2 test will only be removed on Oct 22. (Heaven knows why).
I appreciate that this way round addresses the bigger hassle for UK residents returning home, but really there is no reason why they should not just get rid of both, like tomorrow. Unless of course, as I've suggested earlier, the later date for getting rid of the Day 2 test is because some contracts with these private test operations require a certain minimum number of tests to be carried out. But that would be terribly cynical of me, wouldn't it.
My worry is that by the time we get to Oct 22 the figures will have spiked again, and anything other than a really urgent need to visit will look too risky, and might even be punished by incarceration when we return to our home countries from Plague Island. However having just looked at the latest graph from the FT there is room for cautious optimism both in the UK and across Europe. And I am not sure it will be safe to watch Charlton live before Oct 22 from a mental health perspective...
I wasn't aware of there being 2 different dates. Our next holiday isn't until November, but of course we'll be keeping a close watch nearer the time, because (as you say) the cases could spoke again, for a number of reasons.
i am neither a virologist nor an immunologist, so cannot say why these tests are needed or why there is a difference between the Oct 4 and Oct 22 dates. I do know that case numbers are reported differently in different countries. some more 'accurately' than others and case numbers are affected by a number of different reasons including population density and other demographic reasons as well as compliance and notably the of/with covid differentiation.
Are the various costs for tests for travel in other countries a 'scam' too?
To your final question. Surely I have answered that already, when I explained that in CZ and Germany and in Scandinavia for sure, the national health services have overseen the testing regime, and the respective governments have set out clear pricing which must be adhered to. i cannot be as sure about other EU countries, but can you name an EU country where the same unregualted free for all as in the UK, is allowed?
Its also unwise - in any country to be fair - to assume that these decisions are clearly those of the top relevant medical experts, and that politicians have deferred to them.
What about the countries where it is not? Are they also a scam? Maybe they are in cahoots with the UK Government? My limited experience in Spain is that the tests costs are similar to in the UK and vary the same too. Generally the decisions are made by the senior civil servants, guided by the medical experts and scientists - one of the issues/challenges being the top medical experts and scientists don't always agree
Apart from, possibly, Spain, you have not detailed any EU countries where you think the same system as the UK is happening. We do have Lifers on here who actually live in Spain, so I am tagging @CharltonMadrid and @ken_shabby to see what they think. To be clear, "the same system" is
1. The State health system is not overseeing/scrutinising the appointment of private laboratories who take part in testing 2. Any company can set itself up for the purpose, regardless of whether they ever were in this line of "business" before. 3. Self-completion is widely used for PCR tests often without any control by qualified health workers 3. Pricing is completely unregulated. No max price is imposed. 4. People are given no guidance about which labroratory is best for them, beyond the most basic geographic filter.
Do please (anybody) name another EU country where the above situation exists, with some evidence. Some smartarse may say "Bulgaria" to try and call my bluff, but the bad news for them is, I've got good friends in Bulgaria whom I can check with, who would nevertheless be the first to agree that they would not expect the UK with its NHS to be doing anything at all which is done in Bulgaria!
I haven't done a deep dive detailed analysis andcross-comparison of every country. As I said, I have a small knowledge of the situation in Spain, through experience. You choose whichever country in the EU that suits whichever argument and I just happen to mention rhe one country I have some experience of that counters yours.
You can't have it both ways. I can assure you all policy is developed by civil servants, but of course ultimately signed off by ministers. Much of covid etc policy driven by scientists etc many of whom don't agree with one another.
Despite it being rebuffed by others on here, policy work as a result of covid (and the unfortunate cross-over timing of Brexit) has increased beyond comprehension, as has the workload of lots of people as a result of covid
Ok, so I think it's time for you to show your hand. If you use phrases like "I can assure you" then it implies superior knowledge on your part. Which you may well have, but unfortunately you have swerved at least two suggestions from me to give us an idea of your professional background that might give you a perspective most of us don't have. so that we can learn from it.
I have spent all my life in the private sector, but my Dad was a civil servant as are a few my friends. My understanding of how the civil service works is well summarised on the relevant Wikipedia page thus "Her Majesty's Home Civil Service forms an inseparable part of the British government. The executive decisions of government ministers are implemented by HM Civil Service. Civil servants are employees of the Crown and not of the British parliament."
The bit I highlighted in bold, I take to mean that Ministers brief civil servants on what they want done, as well as signing off on the civil servants' proposals for how they will implement the government's wishes. And that is surely how it has to be. We can hold governments to account at the ballot box, while civil servants must remain in the background, getting ready to serve the next government with completely different ideas. That surely is what "Yes, Minister" depicted so beautifully. The importance of this to the current discussion is that people need to be held to account for this. My working assumption is that those people are the current government. You appear to be implying that in fact some civil servants are responsible for creating the situation where the government hands over all the testing responsibility to the private sector without any regulation whatsoever, and proposing ludicrous over-testing of vaxxed people (Day 2) which no other neighbouring country thinks necessary, and which often is not actually carried out, even though the hapless traveller had to pay for it. So, am I wrong in assigning the responsibility for this shitshow to Ministers? and if you wish to assert that I am. then may I kindly ask for some insight into your background that allows me to defer to you on this point?
I find it mildly amusing for some reason that when we get something wrong in this country, how the default response is to find somebody else who has got it wrong.
It doesn't make poor policy any less poor but shows that the UK isn't the only country that hasn't got everything right. It is understandable in the unprecedented circumstances.
Every country has different dynamics, demographics etc but none has got it 100% right (and citing different EU countries for different aspects doesn't count!)
No country has got it 100% right. So is that a get out of jail free card to get things badly wrong? And a reason why these things that have been got wrong can't be pointed out/commented on. I mean, Adkins is shite but we shouldn't criticise because so was Fraye!
I agree no one has got it completely right and most countries have got some bits right but not others. I think we need to be reasonable and realistic when we criticise though and try to leave personal circs and politics out of it - most policy takes months. If not years and the policy makers (who aren't the politicians) are having to make completely new policies for an unknown situation with ridiculously short timescales and deadlines in a constantly changing situation.
Having been in IT systems way back and routine and one-off crisis policy more recently, quite frankly I'm amazed at how much has been achieved by so many (without hindsight).
I think those making excuses for mistakes are being political. It is just as easy to identify their political sympathies as it is those pointing out the mistakes.
No, Muttley.
It's not about politics. But it is about the way the Government has handled entry into the UK for fully vaccinated UK nationals. We compare it to other countries in Europe, their much stricter pandemic precautions and protections - and consequently far lower percentages of Covid infection.
And we compare it to the virtually complete absence of any requirement for public precaution and protection in the UK. Guess which country has the far greater number of infection?
With this in mind, it is about the Government's handling of this issue, and the expensive and pointless hoops we have to jump through to be able to return home.
I speak from personal experience.
Compliance has unfortunately been poor in the UK. But case numbers are as a result of may things including population density, demographics and the way cases are reported, for example deaths 'with' covid compared to 'from' covid.
I can respond to PA separately. But safe to say the major output of my current job (for which I am trained and qualified) involves scoping, researching and analysing information and reporting apolicitcally and objectively.
The purpose of this thread was to help one another and I reiterate the political 'discussions' should be dealt with separately, as whinging, venting and any political views are getting in the way of genuine assistance of others. Some people are so intrenched in their political views that they just can't envisage others can approach things differently.
Surely you can see from my knowledge and experience why I can't 'show my hand' for a number of reasons. I specifically say what I can but no more. A number of trusted people on here know this.
Ok whatever. Just tell me who- in your opinion- decided that testing could be carried out entirely by private sector companies, and without any price regulation. A minister? Or a civil servant? And if the latter, how can I hold that person to account?
Ok whatever. Just tell me who- in your opinion- decided that testing could be carried out entirely by private sector companies, and without any price regulation. A minister? Or a civil servant? And if the latter, how can I hold that person to account?
Whatever????
The NHS just don't have any capacity. I have asked for someone more in the know to say if this is wrong and they haven't (so far).. Ideally I would prefer price regulation, but as others have cited (e.g Spain and Finland for example) prices are not regulated everywhere elsewhere. Government and Minsters in particular might steer and influence but ultimately it is civil servants who do the work and devise the policies, although I reiterate not normally anywhere near as many with such a ridiculous turnaround as the past 2 years
The Government Ministers direct the civil servants to draft a policy and the government ministers agree it. This is first hand experience of working with ministers as a civil servant. The overall responsibility is the Secretary of State for the department but I’m afraid that ministers do make wrong judgments and then when found out (and normally against advice from CS) then tend to pass the blame onto the CS.
The Government Ministers direct the civil servants to draft a policy and the government ministers agree it. This is first hand experience of working with ministers as a civil servant. The overall responsibility is the Secretary of State for the department but I’m afraid that ministers do make wrong judgments and then when found out (and normally against advice from CS) then tend to pass the blame onto the CS.
Ultimately yes and i have said his myself previously.
I have tried to put the unprecedented siuation into context, being aware of just how much pressure many people have been and still are - my primary reason for joining in was so others would have a better understanding and certainly was not to defend anyone.
If people can't see that because they don't want to be or can't be objective about the full picture (when given context they might not be aware of) then that is unfortunately their lookout.
I totally appreciate people want to complain and vent about various subjects on CL - it is one of the good things on here.
I reiterate the need to split some threads into 2 so that those who are interested in discussing general advice about a subject don't have to wade through political stuff
Some threads have to be closed because of this which meant a genuine attempt to share advice about a subject is lost.
I have explained the situation and my intentions. I generally, but not always I grant you, comment on stuff I actually know about through experience, otherwise I am just expressing my opinion.
People can take notice, doubt or dispute it - it is not always easy to differentiate between fact an opinion.
So my final comment on this is to ask admin to consider a way to split these threads so political 'discussions' don't prevent people commenting on/getting genuine advice
Ok whatever. Just tell me who- in your opinion- decided that testing could be carried out entirely by private sector companies, and without any price regulation. A minister? Or a civil servant? And if the latter, how can I hold that person to account?
Whatever????
The NHS just don't have any capacity. I have asked for someone more in the know to say if this is wrong and they haven't (so far).. Ideally I would prefer price regulation, but as others have cited (e.g Spain and Finland for example) prices are not regulated everywhere elsewhere. Government and Minsters in particular might steer and influence but ultimately it is civil servants who do the work and devise the policies, although I reiterate not normally anywhere near as many with such a ridiculous turnaround as the past 2 years
Yes, whatever, I tried to distil the question down to keep it simple. I perfectly well understand that the NHS does not have "capacity" in the sense that it has nowhere near enough testing laboratories which are State owned (by Public Health England). The point I and others keep trying to make is that this lack of capacity was the same in every other EU country because Covid made unprecedented demands on all health systems, but other EU countries dealt with the problem in different, and IMO better ways. What we incoming traveller-citizens are asking is, who decided on this ultra-free-market approach, and the need for Day 2 testing? If you think that's "political" and therefore somehow bad/to be silenced, that to me shows an authoritarian approach to current affairs - but I don't think you mean it that way, to be fair to you. If we don't get to the bottom of what the Govt briefings to civil servants has been, the danger is that the civil servants will be hung out to dry by the politicians, and I believe that is the last thing you want.
Finally may I recommend you this book: "Failures of State - the inside story of Britain's battle with Coronavirus". I've only got up to April 2020, but it has already explained to me that PHE's laboratory testing capacity had been progressively decreased over the years of austerity, even though a "pandemic plan" existed and called for such capacity to be increased. Similar reasons behind the catastrophic shortage of PPE in the early days. That seems a long time ago. But such failures, and where they came from, should not be forgotten.
I find it mildly amusing for some reason that when we get something wrong in this country, how the default response is to find somebody else who has got it wrong.
It doesn't make poor policy any less poor but shows that the UK isn't the only country that hasn't got everything right. It is understandable in the unprecedented circumstances.
Every country has different dynamics, demographics etc but none has got it 100% right (and citing different EU countries for different aspects doesn't count!)
No country has got it 100% right. So is that a get out of jail free card to get things badly wrong? And a reason why these things that have been got wrong can't be pointed out/commented on. I mean, Adkins is shite but we shouldn't criticise because so was Fraye!
I agree no one has got it completely right and most countries have got some bits right but not others. I think we need to be reasonable and realistic when we criticise though and try to leave personal circs and politics out of it - most policy takes months. If not years and the policy makers (who aren't the politicians) are having to make completely new policies for an unknown situation with ridiculously short timescales and deadlines in a constantly changing situation.
Having been in IT systems way back and routine and one-off crisis policy more recently, quite frankly I'm amazed at how much has been achieved by so many (without hindsight).
I think those making excuses for mistakes are being political. It is just as easy to identify their political sympathies as it is those pointing out the mistakes.
No, Muttley.
It's not about politics. But it is about the way the Government has handled entry into the UK for fully vaccinated UK nationals. We compare it to other countries in Europe, their much stricter pandemic precautions and protections - and consequently far lower percentages of Covid infection.
And we compare it to the virtually complete absence of any requirement for public precaution and protection in the UK. Guess which country has the far greater number of infection?
With this in mind, it is about the Government's handling of this issue, and the expensive and pointless hoops we have to jump through to be able to return home.
I speak from personal experience.
Compliance has unfortunately been poor in the UK. But case numbers are as a result of may things including population density, demographics and the way cases are reported, for example deaths 'with' covid compared to 'from' covid.
I can respond to PA separately. But safe to say the major output of my current job (for which I am trained and qualified) involves scoping, researching and analysing information and reporting apolicitcally and objectively.
The purpose of this thread was to help one another and I reiterate the political 'discussions' should be dealt with separately, as whinging, venting and any political views are getting in the way of genuine assistance of others. Some people are so intrenched in their political views that they just can't envisage others can approach things differently.
Surely you can see from my knowledge and experience why I can't 'show my hand' for a number of reasons. I specifically say what I can but no more. A number of trusted people on here know this.
Hi @PrincessFiona You quote me ..... but it seems your response is directed at @PragueAddick rather than to me.
My point was only on the way European countries are handling the issue compared to the UK.
Just been for our Day2 PCR at the Eurofins drive through at Birchwood (fortunately we had fuelled up the car before we went on holiday ). All very efficient although there was no proper id check. We were only asked for our reference number and could have sent along anyone to take the test on our behalf, plus it was only a nasal swab. Thought the PCR was more sophisticated than that?
Anyway, hope the whole money fleecing scam is well and truly kicked into touch before we head for Fuerteventua in November.
MIL was due to fly to Australia this, my BIL had got her a travel exemption certificate from the Australian government for entry into the country. Dropped her off at Heathrow at 6:30, halfway around the M25, received a phone call from saying Qantas wouldn’t let her into the flight as she didn’t have a visa. However the Australian government are not issuing visa for entry into Australian. So I went back to pick her up, she said there was a family of 4 with the same problem. She hoping to go on Wednesday, if the BIL can sort out a visa and she passes another PCR test before that.
Mrs and I both decided on cancelling her coming home to France next Wednesday, so I'm on my jax for another month at least, including Christmas and new year.
Mrs and I both decided on cancelling her coming home to France next Wednesday, so I'm on my jax for another month at least, including Christmas and new year.
We were we were supposed to be flying out to Lanzerote on the 28th but have binned it as can’t be arsed with all the testing agg. We have bumped it forward to May in the hope things are a bit easier
Testing abroad is fine, most touristy places offer it for free if you look in the right places - it’s only the UK where it’s really extortionate.
I was very impressed by the testing arrangements in Miami last week - free, loads of locations to choose from and the Antigen test result was sent within 10 minutes, with the PCR result in 4 hours.
So glad that everywhere seems to now be doing nasal swabs only, rather than making you gag with the throat scraping.
But by god, the Frenchies have just ruined a lot of people’s festive plans…
Mrs and I both decided on cancelling her coming home to France next Wednesday, so I'm on my jax for another month at least, including Christmas and new year.
Testing abroad is fine, most touristy places offer it for free if you look in the right places - it’s only the UK where it’s really extortionate.
I was very impressed by the testing arrangements in Miami last week - free, loads of locations to choose from and the Antigen test result was sent within 10 minutes, with the PCR result in 4 hours.
So glad that everywhere seems to now be doing nasal swabs only, rather than making you gag with the throat scraping.
But by god, the Frenchies have just ruined a lot of people’s festive plans…
I decided I would travel to France early for Christmas with French GF and have now been here 5 days.
I had a hunch that things would get very difficult or even impossible, as governments look to restrict people meeting over the Christmas period. That's what happened last year and I had my trip cancelled 36 hours before I was due to fly. I wasn't prepared to take the risk this time.
Even so, I was almost thwarted trying to get a 48 hr antigen test at short notice locally in the UK as France suddenly demanded it was to be necessary, just a few days before I was due to travel.
There wasn't time to get a Home kit sent to me and get a result - and it was impossible to book an in store or clinic appointment. Eventually, I was able to make an appointment online for 60 quid at a pharmacy in Plymouth, duly turned up next day - and they handed me a home kit, useless as I hadn't time to get a result, as it was on day of travel. I'd been truly mislead. And paid through the nose.
The day before I had registered online at Boots in Plymouth, paid 30 quid, and their website kept crashing. I went there to complain, explained my predicament, and was told they were fully booked for 3 weeks!
I pleaded my veritable desperation and their clinic person said she'd squeeze me in unofficially. I got my result (negative) just 10 minutes later. I thanked her and she replied she would have despaired in my shoes and no one willing to help her. I owe a debt of gratitude to that wonderful woman.
The sheer stress of spending much of 2 days trying to get an impossible appointment because of the late notice of change of entry requirements by France and the extortionate prices that many private providers are charging in the UK. The entire episode cost me 90 quid extra that I could ill afford.
For a test that would have cost me 20 quid in France.
At least I've now got Christmas here in France at home with my GF and her family. I've been luckier than most.
My understanding is GBR passport holders can go to France to visit family, but (unfortunately) not for 'just' tourism. I have read many articles by various journalists from the EU saying they are appalled at the lack of mask wearing and other lack of adherence to the required precautions here. I certainly witnessed mask wearing adherence in Spain during 2 separate weeks that put us, especially London, to shame. Mindful my experience is a small sample in the scheme of things
My understanding is GBR passport holders can go to France to visit family, but (unfortunately) not for 'just' tourism. I have read many articles by various journalists from the EU saying they are appalled at the lack of mask wearing and other lack of adherence to the required precautions here. I certainly witnessed mask wearing adherence in Spain during 2 separate weeks that put us, especially London, to shame. Mindful my experience is a small sample in the scheme of things
I don't think you can come to France to visit family. These are the "compelling" reasons why you can travel given by the French government and listed on the BBC news website
- Being someone working in the land, maritime and aerial transport sectors - French citizens with wife/husband/partner and their children - EU citizens with wife/husband/partner and children who have a main residence in France, or are in transit to a main residence in a country of the EU - Citizens from outside the EU who have a resident permit in France or a long-stay visa, with a main residence in France -British workers from the public sector such as border guards or customs officers - People working for the Channel Tunnel -Travellers in transit for less than 24 hours in French airports' international zones
My understanding is GBR passport holders can go to France to visit family, but (unfortunately) not for 'just' tourism. I have read many articles by various journalists from the EU saying they are appalled at the lack of mask wearing and other lack of adherence to the required precautions here. I certainly witnessed mask wearing adherence in Spain during 2 separate weeks that put us, especially London, to shame. Mindful my experience is a small sample in the scheme of things
I don't think you can come to France to visit family. These are the "compelling" reasons why you can travel given by the French government and listed on the BBC news website
- Being someone working in the land, maritime and aerial transport sectors - French citizens with wife/husband/partner and their children - EU citizens with wife/husband/partner and children who have a main residence in France, or are in transit to a main residence in a country of the EU - Citizens from outside the EU who have a resident permit in France or a long-stay visa, with a main residence in France -British workers from the public sector such as border guards or customs officers - People working for the Channel Tunnel -Travellers in transit for less than 24 hours in French airports' international zones
We've just canceled Christmas. Too much messing about and too risky for Mrs to get back to work n UK on New Year's day. We thought it best to make the decision ourselves now, rather than go through the same shit we're still paying for after last Christmas pissing about
Comments
Just checked the latest Reuters figures on infections:
Spain 33 per 100k
UK 360 per 100k
Now, there are obviously a lot of different factors at play (climate, population density etc) but maybe mask wearing is at least helping?
I suggest we split threads like this into 2; one being for help and advice and the other for people to air their grievances/vent aa to why things aren't set up perfectly ommediately and to suit their individual.circumstances and someone else can explain why/why nit
It's not about politics. But it is about the way the Government has handled entry into the UK for fully vaccinated UK nationals.
We compare it to other countries in Europe, their much stricter pandemic precautions and protections - and consequently far lower percentages of Covid infection.
And we compare it to the virtually complete absence of any requirement for public precaution and protection in the UK.
Guess which country has the far greater number of infection?
With this in mind, it is about the Government's handling of this issue, and the expensive and pointless hoops we have to jump through to be able to return home.
I speak from personal experience.
I have spent all my life in the private sector, but my Dad was a civil servant as are a few my friends. My understanding of how the civil service works is well summarised on the relevant Wikipedia page thus "Her Majesty's Home Civil Service forms an inseparable part of the British government. The executive decisions of government ministers are implemented by HM Civil Service. Civil servants are employees of the Crown and not of the British parliament."
The bit I highlighted in bold, I take to mean that Ministers brief civil servants on what they want done, as well as signing off on the civil servants' proposals for how they will implement the government's wishes. And that is surely how it has to be. We can hold governments to account at the ballot box, while civil servants must remain in the background, getting ready to serve the next government with completely different ideas. That surely is what "Yes, Minister" depicted so beautifully.
The importance of this to the current discussion is that people need to be held to account for this. My working assumption is that those people are the current government. You appear to be implying that in fact some civil servants are responsible for creating the situation where the government hands over all the testing responsibility to the private sector without any regulation whatsoever, and proposing ludicrous over-testing of vaxxed people (Day 2) which no other neighbouring country thinks necessary, and which often is not actually carried out, even though the hapless traveller had to pay for it.
So, am I wrong in assigning the responsibility for this shitshow to Ministers? and if you wish to assert that I am. then may I kindly ask for some insight into your background that allows me to defer to you on this point?
I can respond to PA separately. But safe to say the major output of my current job (for which I am trained and qualified) involves scoping, researching and analysing information and reporting apolicitcally and objectively.
The purpose of this thread was to help one another and I reiterate the political 'discussions' should be dealt with separately, as whinging, venting and any political views are getting in the way of genuine assistance of others. Some people are so intrenched in their political views that they just can't envisage others can approach things differently.
Surely you can see from my knowledge and experience why I can't 'show my hand' for a number of reasons. I specifically say what I can but no more. A number of trusted people on here know this.
Ok whatever. Just tell me who- in your opinion- decided that testing could be carried out entirely by private sector companies, and without any price regulation. A minister? Or a civil servant? And if the latter, how can I hold that person to account?
The NHS just don't have any capacity. I have asked for someone more in the know to say if this is wrong and they haven't (so far).. Ideally I would prefer price regulation, but as others have cited (e.g Spain and Finland for example) prices are not regulated everywhere elsewhere. Government and Minsters in particular might steer and influence but ultimately it is civil servants who do the work and devise the policies, although I reiterate not normally anywhere near as many with such a ridiculous turnaround as the past 2 years
I have tried to put the unprecedented siuation into context, being aware of just how much pressure many people have been and still are - my primary reason for joining in was so others would have a better understanding and certainly was not to defend anyone.
If people can't see that because they don't want to be or can't be objective about the full picture (when given context they might not be aware of) then that is unfortunately their lookout.
I totally appreciate people want to complain and vent about various subjects on CL - it is one of the good things on here.
I reiterate the need to split some threads into 2 so that those who are interested in discussing general advice about a subject don't have to wade through political stuff
Some threads have to be closed because of this which meant a genuine attempt to share advice about a subject is lost.
I have explained the situation and my intentions. I generally, but not always I grant you, comment on stuff I actually know about through experience, otherwise I am just expressing my opinion.
People can take notice, doubt or dispute it - it is not always easy to differentiate between fact an opinion.
So my final comment on this is to ask admin to consider a way to split these threads so political 'discussions' don't prevent people commenting on/getting genuine advice
Finally may I recommend you this book: "Failures of State - the inside story of Britain's battle with Coronavirus". I've only got up to April 2020, but it has already explained to me that PHE's laboratory testing capacity had been progressively decreased over the years of austerity, even though a "pandemic plan" existed and called for such capacity to be increased. Similar reasons behind the catastrophic shortage of PPE in the early days. That seems a long time ago. But such failures, and where they came from, should not be forgotten.
Hi @PrincessFiona You quote me ..... but it seems your response is directed at @PragueAddick rather than to me.
My point was only on the way European countries are handling the issue compared to the UK.
Is criticising the Covid19 paperwork and testing really politicising ? Most of us on this thread have wanted:
1. To vent their spleen about it
I was very impressed by the testing arrangements in Miami last week - free, loads of locations to choose from and the Antigen test result was sent within 10 minutes, with the PCR result in 4 hours.
So glad that everywhere seems to now be doing nasal swabs only, rather than making you gag with the throat scraping.
But by god, the Frenchies have just ruined a lot of people’s festive plans…
I had a hunch that things would get very difficult or even impossible, as governments look to restrict people meeting over the Christmas period. That's what happened last year and I had my trip cancelled 36 hours before I was due to fly. I wasn't prepared to take the risk this time.
Even so, I was almost thwarted trying to get a 48 hr antigen test at short notice locally in the UK as France suddenly demanded it was to be necessary, just a few days before I was due to travel.
There wasn't time to get a Home kit sent to me and get a result - and it was impossible to book an in store or clinic appointment. Eventually, I was able to make an appointment online for 60 quid at a pharmacy in Plymouth, duly turned up next day - and they handed me a home kit, useless as I hadn't time to get a result, as it was on day of travel. I'd been truly mislead. And paid through the nose.
The day before I had registered online at Boots in Plymouth, paid 30 quid, and their website kept crashing. I went there to complain, explained my predicament, and was told they were fully booked for 3 weeks!
I pleaded my veritable desperation and their clinic person said she'd squeeze me in unofficially. I got my result (negative) just 10 minutes later. I thanked her and she replied she would have despaired in my shoes and no one willing to help her. I owe a debt of gratitude to that wonderful woman.
The sheer stress of spending much of 2 days trying to get an impossible appointment because of the late notice of change of entry requirements by France and the extortionate prices that many private providers are charging in the UK. The entire episode cost me 90 quid extra that I could ill afford.
For a test that would have cost me 20 quid in France.
At least I've now got Christmas here in France at home with my GF and her family. I've been luckier than most.
- Being someone working in the land, maritime and aerial transport sectors
- French citizens with wife/husband/partner and their children
- EU citizens with wife/husband/partner and children who have a main residence in France, or are in transit to a main residence in a country of the EU
- Citizens from outside the EU who have a resident permit in France or a long-stay visa, with a main residence in France
-British workers from the public sector such as border guards or customs officers
- People working for the Channel Tunnel
-Travellers in transit for less than 24 hours in French airports' international zones
https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52544307
Not all of this shit again!