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Elliot Lee - gone to Wrexham (p15)
Comments
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Needs to stop thinking he has the pace to knock it past someone and run onto it, don't think it's worked once.1
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I knew this would happen eventually. We can't let a good thing go unmoaned about, can we?5
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When you see the passion Lee displays after a win and add that to the ability he can be credited for, I cant see why anyone would think there's a better option out there at the moment. We're a League 1 club at the end of the day, fault could be found in every player if you look hard enough8
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Well... I think that's unfair. For one, Elliott can play 90 minutes. Johnny's engine ran out on 60 minutes every game. Can you believe that he only finished a game 8 times in his entire Charlton career. He never completed 90 for Cardiff and has only done it once for Swindon. The guy does not have the engine to play professional football.kentaddick said:
Agreed. Like Jonny it’s clear to see there’s bags of talent there. But is he able to pull it together for long periods of a game?FAVADDICK said:The new johnny Williams
Elliott also presses, wins tackles, recycles the ball and has a better passing range than Williams. We've seen that with his pass for Washington's goal against Plymouth the first time round, which killed the game, and Gilbey's goal the other week, which again killed the game. I think he's an upgrade.9 -
Believe it or not injury prone Johnny has played more career games than Elliot Lee. Most at a higher level.
I never get how people forget quite how good Williams was for the 1st dozen games in the championship, we only lost 1 of the 10 games he started, he got 5 assists. He obviously got injured and never really got a another run of games in his position.
Who is the better footballer, Williams without a shadow of a doubt. Who is the more reliable, less likely to break, more capable of lasting 90 minutes, Lee without a shadow of a doubt. Who would I rather have? Lee probably.
Like Inniss if Johnny didn't have "fitness issues" he would never have dropped below the championship and we would certainly never signed him.5 -
No he hasn't?Cafc43v3r said:Believe it or not injury prone Johnny has played more career games than Elliot Lee. Most at a higher level.
I never get how people forget quite how good Williams was for the 1st dozen games in the championship, we only lost 1 of the 10 games he started, he got 5 assists. He obviously got injured and never really got a another run of games in his position.
Who is the better footballer, Williams without a shadow of a doubt. Who is the more reliable, less likely to break, more capable of lasting 90 minutes, Lee without a shadow of a doubt. Who would I rather have? Lee probably.
Like Inniss if Johnny didn't have "fitness issues" he would never have dropped below the championship and we would certainly never signed him.
Williams - 217 games
Lee - 249
(Source: Lee - Williams)
And Lee is a year younger.
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According to Wiki Williams has played 226 club games plus 31 games for Wales so a total of 257. Lee has, by the same site, played 201 games........Chunes said:
No he hasn't?Cafc43v3r said:Believe it or not injury prone Johnny has played more career games than Elliot Lee. Most at a higher level.
I never get how people forget quite how good Williams was for the 1st dozen games in the championship, we only lost 1 of the 10 games he started, he got 5 assists. He obviously got injured and never really got a another run of games in his position.
Who is the better footballer, Williams without a shadow of a doubt. Who is the more reliable, less likely to break, more capable of lasting 90 minutes, Lee without a shadow of a doubt. Who would I rather have? Lee probably.
Like Inniss if Johnny didn't have "fitness issues" he would never have dropped below the championship and we would certainly never signed him.
Williams - 217 games
Lee - 249
(Source: Lee - Williams)
And Lee is a year younger.
Lee's 249 includes reserve games at westham....2 -
Oh you're right it includes West Ham U23's.
You're also right Jonny was good for 12 games. And in the play-off final. Nowhere near enough. Probably why he's now sitting on the bench in league 2.1 -
He didn't get a run in the team, in the same position, after. It's on transfer market if you want to double check 😉Chunes said:Oh you're right it includes West Ham U23's.
You're also right Jonny was good for 12 games. And in the play-off final. Nowhere near enough. Probably why he's now sitting on the bench in league 2.
He is at Swindon for nonfootball reasons BTW. Unlike Lee who has never been a regular above league 1.2 -
Fitness, injury proneness and end product are all football reasons. If those weren’t question marks about his game he’d still be playing at a higher level.Cafc43v3r said:
He didn't get a run in the team, in the same position, after. It's on transfer market if you want to double check 😉Chunes said:Oh you're right it includes West Ham U23's.
You're also right Jonny was good for 12 games. And in the play-off final. Nowhere near enough. Probably why he's now sitting on the bench in league 2.
He is at Swindon for nonfootball reasons BTW. Unlike Lee who has never been a regular above league 1.4 - Sponsored links:
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Started 36, subbed off in 23.Scoham said:Good enough for us as a squad player. Has the energy we need in the middle but don’t believe he has the fitness to be starting every game and consistently playing 90 minutes.
Looking at the stats he started 36 league games for Luton in their promotion season. Not sure where to find how often he was subbed off but expect it happened fairly regularly.
He’ll get his fair share of goals and assists if he gets a run of starts here and there or gives us a new attacking threat from the bench.
At the moment we’re using him like a box to box midfielder with no alternative. No surprise he’s tiring and looking like an average L1 player. He was a striker or number 10 in a diamond at Luton.
You need good squad options to get promoted and he ticks that box for me.
In 19/20 he started 8 and was subbed off in 8.
Last season he started 8 for Luton, subbed off again in all 8. Then started 17 for Oxford and was subbed off in 15.
It's only for us that he seems to be playing full games most of the time. 16 league starts, subbed off in only 5.1 -
Is he on the bench for nonfootball reasons?Cafc43v3r said:
He didn't get a run in the team, in the same position, after. It's on transfer market if you want to double check 😉Chunes said:Oh you're right it includes West Ham U23's.
You're also right Jonny was good for 12 games. And in the play-off final. Nowhere near enough. Probably why he's now sitting on the bench in league 2.
He is at Swindon for nonfootball reasons BTW. Unlike Lee who has never been a regular above league 1.
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He is at Swindon for reasons other than football reasons, he had offers for more money at higher levels.Scoham said:
Fitness, injury proneness and end product are all football reasons. If those weren’t question marks about his game he’d still be playing at a higher level.Cafc43v3r said:
He didn't get a run in the team, in the same position, after. It's on transfer market if you want to double check 😉Chunes said:Oh you're right it includes West Ham U23's.
You're also right Jonny was good for 12 games. And in the play-off final. Nowhere near enough. Probably why he's now sitting on the bench in league 2.
He is at Swindon for nonfootball reasons BTW. Unlike Lee who has never been a regular above league 1.
People moan that players sign contracts and are happy to take the money, then use the fact someone is playing for his mate, basically for free as a stuck to beat him.
He is on the bench cos funny enough he is carrying an injury.
Like I said on balance, I would have Lee. I don't see how anyone can not see how good Williams actually was.
Lets get back to my other favourite CL sub genre of Watson is slow jokes
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What are those reasons then?Cafc43v3r said:
He is at Swindon for reasons other than football reasons, he had offers for more money at higher levels.Scoham said:
Fitness, injury proneness and end product are all football reasons. If those weren’t question marks about his game he’d still be playing at a higher level.Cafc43v3r said:
He didn't get a run in the team, in the same position, after. It's on transfer market if you want to double check 😉Chunes said:Oh you're right it includes West Ham U23's.
You're also right Jonny was good for 12 games. And in the play-off final. Nowhere near enough. Probably why he's now sitting on the bench in league 2.
He is at Swindon for nonfootball reasons BTW. Unlike Lee who has never been a regular above league 1.
People moan that players sign contracts and are happy to take the money, then use the fact someone is playing for his mate, basically for free as a stuck to beat him.
He is on the bench cos funny enough he is carrying an injury.
Like I said on balance, I would have Lee. I don't see how anyone can not see how good Williams actually was.
Lets get back to my other favourite CL sub genre of Watson is slow jokes
His manager at Swindon literally said he signed for them for footballing reasons. The money wasn't important and he was happy to sign because he wanted to enjoy his football.0 -
He is there basically for free cos his mates the mates the manager, fair enough swap football reasons for ability or some other adjective. He is doing the exact opposite of what a lot of our players, over the years, have done and its used as a stick to beat him with.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What are those reasons then?Cafc43v3r said:
He is at Swindon for reasons other than football reasons, he had offers for more money at higher levels.Scoham said:
Fitness, injury proneness and end product are all football reasons. If those weren’t question marks about his game he’d still be playing at a higher level.Cafc43v3r said:
He didn't get a run in the team, in the same position, after. It's on transfer market if you want to double check 😉Chunes said:Oh you're right it includes West Ham U23's.
You're also right Jonny was good for 12 games. And in the play-off final. Nowhere near enough. Probably why he's now sitting on the bench in league 2.
He is at Swindon for nonfootball reasons BTW. Unlike Lee who has never been a regular above league 1.
People moan that players sign contracts and are happy to take the money, then use the fact someone is playing for his mate, basically for free as a stuck to beat him.
He is on the bench cos funny enough he is carrying an injury.
Like I said on balance, I would have Lee. I don't see how anyone can not see how good Williams actually was.
Lets get back to my other favourite CL sub genre of Watson is slow jokes
His manager at Swindon literally said he signed for them for footballing reasons. The money wasn't important and he was happy to sign because he wanted to enjoy his football.0 -
Was with some Swindon fans at the weekend and they love him there 'Johniesta' is his nickname there - Elliot Lee is a good League 1 player - he's not pefect and when the game is scrappy, it doesn't suit him but he's definitely worthy of a place for us this season - like most of our team, we seem to lack an adequate alternative when its not quite happening on the day.0
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It's a problem with our squad overall, it was built on a 433 that Adkins wanted to play and is now being adapted for a 352 that Jackson prefers. There's now a few players (Kirk for instance) that don't seem to fit anywhere and positions we're light in (like the conundrum of who plays instead of Lee)
On the subject of Lee, he's ok, but he's not a promotion leading player, and for all his endeavour, he doesn't shoot enough and therefore doesn't contribute with enough goals for an attacking midfielder0 -
Can only go on the games I've seen but I think Lee is cracking player at this level. The combo with Dobson and gilbey has at times been impossible for teams to handle. I'm not expecting 10/10 performances every week from anyone, these players are in league one for a reason, but even when things are not coming off for him he still puts a shift in. I like Jonny Williams, but let's be honest he had about 10 good games over 2.5 seasons. A nice bloke, but massively over hyped in my opinion.6
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ever considered you might just have a different opinion? You've been defending Williams for over a year now which is fair enough, but like you said to another poster recently, you're opinion isn't fact.Cafc43v3r said:
He is at Swindon for reasons other than football reasons, he had offers for more money at higher levels.Scoham said:
Fitness, injury proneness and end product are all football reasons. If those weren’t question marks about his game he’d still be playing at a higher level.Cafc43v3r said:
He didn't get a run in the team, in the same position, after. It's on transfer market if you want to double check 😉Chunes said:Oh you're right it includes West Ham U23's.
You're also right Jonny was good for 12 games. And in the play-off final. Nowhere near enough. Probably why he's now sitting on the bench in league 2.
He is at Swindon for nonfootball reasons BTW. Unlike Lee who has never been a regular above league 1.
People moan that players sign contracts and are happy to take the money, then use the fact someone is playing for his mate, basically for free as a stuck to beat him.
He is on the bench cos funny enough he is carrying an injury.
Like I said on balance, I would have Lee. I don't see how anyone can not see how good Williams actually was.
Lets get back to my other favourite CL sub genre of Watson is slow jokes1 -
OK these are facts he started 9 of our 1st 12 games that season. Getting 5 assists. In those 9 games he got a Statbank average of pretty much bang on 7.5. No one else got more than 5 assists in the whole season. Its also a fact that he never got another run in the side in that position.cafcfan1990 said:
ever considered you might just have a different opinion? You've been defending Williams for over a year now which is fair enough, but like you said to another poster recently, you're opinion isn't fact.Cafc43v3r said:
He is at Swindon for reasons other than football reasons, he had offers for more money at higher levels.Scoham said:
Fitness, injury proneness and end product are all football reasons. If those weren’t question marks about his game he’d still be playing at a higher level.Cafc43v3r said:
He didn't get a run in the team, in the same position, after. It's on transfer market if you want to double check 😉Chunes said:Oh you're right it includes West Ham U23's.
You're also right Jonny was good for 12 games. And in the play-off final. Nowhere near enough. Probably why he's now sitting on the bench in league 2.
He is at Swindon for nonfootball reasons BTW. Unlike Lee who has never been a regular above league 1.
People moan that players sign contracts and are happy to take the money, then use the fact someone is playing for his mate, basically for free as a stuck to beat him.
He is on the bench cos funny enough he is carrying an injury.
Like I said on balance, I would have Lee. I don't see how anyone can not see how good Williams actually was.
Lets get back to my other favourite CL sub genre of Watson is slow jokes
As you have been keeping track you will know that on countless occasions I have said I wouldn't want him back. I have explained why.
I really don't understand the need for certain posters consistently down playing how good he was, some almost to the extent of ridicule. He isn't the only player either. There are enough that deserve genuine criticism.
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But other than that purple patch you keep bringing up, he contributed very little. So actually that 9 game run was when he was in the form of his life, not his usual standard of play. You can't base how good a player is on, what, 4% of his career?0
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He was very very good... For a while. But then never reached those heights again.
The same issue is facing Lee now, its perennial to "creative" players in general outside the very very peak - a purple patch of excellent form makes them look phenomenal and their REAL "average" look worse than it is.
Lee for example has been rated both overly high and criticised overly harshly because of the difference between his absolute best and his normal standard. Realistically he was unlikely to be as good as we first thought all season but similarly he's not suddenly become awful.
Compared to other positions it's lower on the priority list but in an ideal world cover/competition for him would be inbound come January.0 -
Because of multiple reasons it's the only extended run he had in the 2 years at the club so as a footballer there isn't much else to judge him on really is there?sam3110 said:But other than that purple patch you keep bringing up, he contributed very little. So actually that 9 game run was when he was in the form of his life, not his usual standard of play. You can't base how good a player is on, what, 4% of his career?
Of all the players that have screwed us over in the last decade I just find it strange that people spend so much time and energy having a go at someone that didn't. When he was fit a played in his right position he was very very good. It didn't happen enough, obviously but that isn't all his fault.
I am not saying any more, promise.2 -
He never got a run of games again because every time he came back into the side he was poor. You're supposed to earn your place to keep it.
Nobody is having a go at him, has anyone called him lazy, selfish, a twat, etc? People just don't think he's that good.1 -
Number 10s just don't do well for Charlton in recent times consistently. Williams/Oztumer come to mind. Successful creative players for Charlton need to have a bit more about them workrate wise like Gilbey/Aribo/Gallagher1
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People being critical of an individual player, okay .... but not appearing to take into consideration that a player's performance is hugely influenced by those team mates around him.
If players are playing well as a team unit, then so usually is the individual player under the spotlight.
Creative players like Elliott Lee and Jonny Williams open up packed defences. No matter how much effort they put in themselves, they usually need other players on form: giving 100%, ball winning and reliable service to the creative players, good movement, runs off the ball, being the outlet making themselves available - otherwise moves break down. And there's always the opposition to take into account; their job is to stop you playing.
It's no coincidence that these players are at their best and most effective when the team is on a confidence building good run.
If the team is struggling or having an off day, so do they.
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Nor the one(s) that consistently go on about how good he was in a very brief spell over two years ago and nearly a year after he left...Cafc43v3r said:
OK these are facts he started 9 of our 1st 12 games that season. Getting 5 assists. In those 9 games he got a Statbank average of pretty much bang on 7.5. No one else got more than 5 assists in the whole season. Its also a fact that he never got another run in the side in that position.cafcfan1990 said:
ever considered you might just have a different opinion? You've been defending Williams for over a year now which is fair enough, but like you said to another poster recently, you're opinion isn't fact.Cafc43v3r said:
He is at Swindon for reasons other than football reasons, he had offers for more money at higher levels.Scoham said:
Fitness, injury proneness and end product are all football reasons. If those weren’t question marks about his game he’d still be playing at a higher level.Cafc43v3r said:
He didn't get a run in the team, in the same position, after. It's on transfer market if you want to double check 😉Chunes said:Oh you're right it includes West Ham U23's.
You're also right Jonny was good for 12 games. And in the play-off final. Nowhere near enough. Probably why he's now sitting on the bench in league 2.
He is at Swindon for nonfootball reasons BTW. Unlike Lee who has never been a regular above league 1.
People moan that players sign contracts and are happy to take the money, then use the fact someone is playing for his mate, basically for free as a stuck to beat him.
He is on the bench cos funny enough he is carrying an injury.
Like I said on balance, I would have Lee. I don't see how anyone can not see how good Williams actually was.
Lets get back to my other favourite CL sub genre of Watson is slow jokes
As you have been keeping track you will know that on countless occasions I have said I wouldn't want him back. I have explained why.
I really don't understand the need for certain posters consistently down playing how good he was, some almost to the extent of ridicule. He isn't the only player either. There are enough that deserve genuine criticism.1 -
We’re a football club who since 2010 have spent 8 seasons in the third tier. We would be extremely fortunate to finish in the top 8 of League One this season, we should be thanking our lucky stars we have a player like Elliot Lee here.When you look at our squad, he’s certainly one of the best players.10
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Talk yourself up, why don’t you!ElliotCAFC said:We’re a football club who since 2010 has spent 8 seasons in the third tier. We would be extremely fortunate to finish in the top 8 of League One this season, we should be thanking our lucky stars we have a player like Elliot Lee here.When you look at our squad, he’s certainly one of the best players.7 -
Elliott Lee is a class act, works his bollocks off too
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