Homophobic abuse at today's game (ed - Not Charlton fans)

ElliotCAFC said:

Lordflashheart said:

oohaahmortimer said:

Lordflashheart said:

There was a Policeman in the away end openly videoing our fans - I couldn’t believe how stupid some of the people around me were openly chanting homophobic abuse, and abuse at their goalkeeper, and the Policeman simply stood there and filmed them - they could see he was filming them, but carried on - idiots

Sounds like Lordflashheart heard homophobic chanting from the Charlton end , maybe that’s why some assumed it was Charlton fans amazingly enough .
Sad times whatever pricks behaved like this .

Certainly did, and also shouts at their goalkeeper suggesting he was sexually abused by his father when he was a little boy - I mean, call him out saying he is crap keeper etc, but the sexual abuse shouts were plain wrong - unfortunately, such a small away end, that was sold out, coupled with the fact I had a decent standing position where I could see (I’m not the tallest) mean’t I couldn’t move - and before anyone says ‘why didn’t you say anything’, having looked at those saying it, I wasn’t going to get beaten up by pissed up yobs (which having assessed matters, I decided would likely happen)

Interesting to see where you draw the line on what is and isn’t acceptable in a football stadium. Shouting at someone that they’re crap at their profession is abuse, so why do you think that’s acceptable? 

For the record, I’m not saying it isn’t acceptable - I’m not offended by football chants (especially on someone else’s behalf), but it is interesting to see that some versions of abuse are horrifying and others are fine. 

BOWAddick said:

Not a great experience yesterday apart from the pub in Charlton Kings before the game. We had a drunken prat next to us who kept up a tirade of loud, foul-mouthed abuse throughout the game in front of some puzzled-looking young children playing by the corner flag. 

Gary Poole said:

Lordflashheart said:

And in a similar vein, I remember QPR away in the 80’s when David Seaman was their goalkeeper, when he was in front of the away end, there was endless mickey taking by us about his surname, he just laughed and played along - he had the last laugh, as they beat us (88/89 season - Littlewoods Cup, we were leading, then Shirtliff got sent off, Trevor Francis brought himself on and scored both their goals to win it) - at the end of the game Seaman applauded us, and gave us a wink of his eye

I remember that game too, as I recall there was nothing homophobic or of that nature and he was playing up and responding too it. 

Chizz said:

Lordflashheart said:

Gary Poole said:

Lordflashheart said:

And in a similar vein, I remember QPR away in the 80’s when David Seaman was their goalkeeper, when he was in front of the away end, there was endless mickey taking by us about his surname, he just laughed and played along - he had the last laugh, as they beat us (88/89 season - Littlewoods Cup, we were leading, then Shirtliff got sent off, Trevor Francis brought himself on and scored both their goals to win it) - at the end of the game Seaman applauded us, and gave us a wink of his eye

I remember that game too, as I recall there was nothing homophobic or of that nature and he was playing up and responding too it. 

I remember a chant of ‘spunky’ directed at him, and he turned around and laughed, and shouted ‘can’t you think up something original’ and we all laughed - in fairness, it wasn’t original, and he probably heard it at every match he played in

In a game between Seaman and Shirtliff, I don't think it's the former England goalkeeper who would be the more likely to attract moronic homophobic abuse based on their surnames. 

clb74 said:

KBslittlesis said:

Thing is Seth, I can’t believe for one minute that if you or I piped up & confronted these eejits (70yr old male, 52yr old female) & they tried to larrup us, that others wouldn’t come to our aid?

Or have I watched too many Marvel movies? 🤷‍♀️

So as a 52 year old woman you want to call the abuse out and if it comes on top me to help you out?

Belv said:

Amazes me that whenever this sort of thing happens it's never, ever within in earshot of the "well, I would have said something" type of people.

Belv said:

Amazes me that whenever this sort of thing happens it's never, ever within in earshot of the "well, I would have said something" type of people.

Lordflashheart said:

Belv said:

Amazes me that whenever this sort of thing happens it's never, ever within in earshot of the "well, I would have said something" type of people.

As I say above, I wasn’t prepared to get thumped, and having looked at the group who were chanting, my judgement was that I probably would have got thumped + to the Stewards / Police it would look like I was fighting, whereas I would have only been defending myself - that would have meant being thrown out and possibly arrested, which for a 51 year old who has never been in trouble, wouldn’t be great, and could have implications in terms of my job, which I have worked very hard over 35 years to get to where I am

Simple as that

Lordflashheart said:

Belv said:

Lordflashheart said:

Belv said:

Amazes me that whenever this sort of thing happens it's never, ever within in earshot of the "well, I would have said something" type of people.

As I say above, I wasn’t prepared to get thumped, and having looked at the group who were chanting, my judgement was that I probably would have got thumped + to the Stewards / Police it would look like I was fighting, whereas I would have only been defending myself - that would have meant being thrown out and possibly arrested, which for a 51 year old who has never been in trouble, wouldn’t be great, and could have implications in terms of my job, which I have worked very hard over 35 years to get to where I am

Simple as that

I agree with you.

I meant that whenever someone hears this sort of thing you always get "I would have said something to them" or "Why didn't you confront them?", it just never seems to happen in front of those people who "would definitely have said something". Guess the point I was making is that it's very easy to say you would have done if you're not the one witnessing it.

Two people have since said they have seen it and challenged it, so I stand corrected but I have never seen anyone do it.

Quite a few years ago, my late Father called out someone in the West Stand (yes, the West Stand !!) who was shouting racist abuse during matches - Dad would have been mid 60’s years old at the time - the bloke turned around and told him to F off, and if he carried he would see Dad outside the ground afterwards - Dad obviously didn’t ‘meet’ him after the game, but made a note of where he sat, and when the bloke left the match, Dad went over and made a note of row and seat number - he then wrote to the club, and the bloke wasn’t seen again - the Club refused to discuss it further with Dad, but he could only surmise that the bloke had had his season ticket taken off him

These days I imagine the Club would get the Police involved, but different times back then (it was during Prem days)

Henry Irving said:

Lordflashheart said:

Belv said:

Lordflashheart said:

Belv said:

Amazes me that whenever this sort of thing happens it's never, ever within in earshot of the "well, I would have said something" type of people.

As I say above, I wasn’t prepared to get thumped, and having looked at the group who were chanting, my judgement was that I probably would have got thumped + to the Stewards / Police it would look like I was fighting, whereas I would have only been defending myself - that would have meant being thrown out and possibly arrested, which for a 51 year old who has never been in trouble, wouldn’t be great, and could have implications in terms of my job, which I have worked very hard over 35 years to get to where I am

Simple as that

I agree with you.

I meant that whenever someone hears this sort of thing you always get "I would have said something to them" or "Why didn't you confront them?", it just never seems to happen in front of those people who "would definitely have said something". Guess the point I was making is that it's very easy to say you would have done if you're not the one witnessing it.

Two people have since said they have seen it and challenged it, so I stand corrected but I have never seen anyone do it.

Quite a few years ago, my late Father called out someone in the West Stand (yes, the West Stand !!) who was shouting racist abuse during matches - Dad would have been mid 60’s years old at the time - the bloke turned around and told him to F off, and if he carried he would see Dad outside the ground afterwards - Dad obviously didn’t ‘meet’ him after the game, but made a note of where he sat, and when the bloke left the match, Dad went over and made a note of row and seat number - he then wrote to the club, and the bloke wasn’t seen again - the Club refused to discuss it further with Dad, but he could only surmise that the bloke had had his season ticket taken off him

These days I imagine the Club would get the Police involved, but different times back then (it was during Prem days)

Probably still waiting in Macros car park :- )

Seriously, well done your dad.

I've called people out but there have been other times I've decided discretion was the better part of valour (bottled it) because I'm not trained in armed and unarmed combat like @KBslittlesis

guinnessaddick said:

So, the three arrested were backing the other side.

Cardinal Sin said:

We shouldn't forget the larger numbers who think that Addams Family song is clever or acceptable. Singing about incest at a football match is a step closer to it than the fans it's sung to.

ValleyOfTears said:

Wheresmeticket? said:

ValleyOfTears said:

While (I think) we can all agree that abusing someone for their race or sexual orientation is not at all welcome, there is also the reality that "when wine sinks, words swim" and the contents of the heart becomes clear to all when people are drunk. A football ground is a place where many are intoxicated and things aren't pleasant to hear and see.  Sometimes really obnoxious.  

But banning people from anything should always be an absolute  last resort. There is also a danger that we just want to create a very middle class, polite, nice all seated comfy event where everyone knows the social rules of polite society when it's a working class sport for working men and women  often people with crap lives, dire working conditions and "the game" on Saturday was always this outlet for working class people to come together and get a release. . This is not an appeal for people to be allowed to abuse others with impunity but it is an appeal to all those woke "tolerant" individuals to be tolerant of ALL people. Not just the ones that are currently in vogue. 

To ban someone who is obnoxiously rude does nothing to change the behaviours you don't like. In my experience, obnoxiously rude people are like that because of being around obnoxiously rude people all their lives. They have had awful lives.  Surely accepting and involving such people (two things obnoxious people have possibly rarely experienced in their lives)  who are obnoxiously rude may go a long way to changing their unwelcome behaviours. 

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

"Woke" indeed.

WmT: 

All sounds very good. But the question is WHO are the intolerant here? 

1. Are they  ~ 
People demanding the banning of people who say obnoxious things at football matches when they are drunk ~ banning sounds pretty intolerant to me. 

Or are they ~ 
 people who say obnoxious things when they are drunk  at football matches to various people they feel like abusing? 

It sounds like there is A LOT of intolerance going on everywhere in this age. 

I agree with your last point ~ we should indeed defend a tolerant society. And that starts with how much tolerance is in ME. For all persons we are found left wanting in this area of tolerating others.